What freedoms and rights do u wish we had in the USA

[murray hill farm]

that other countries have already...so called underdeveloped countries...like health care for every citizen in the country? Seeing the demonstration in Lebanon, made me wonder if we could even do that here..to that extent to let our voices be heard.

[datasuspect]

1. the right to petition the government for redress of grievances?

without having to do it from a free speech pen?

[murray hill farm]

5. Yes...

Bush speaks to the world of spreading freedom and civil rights..but we here have less freedom and fewer rights than most underdeveloped countries...and we are loosing more daily.

[forgethell]

16. You mean

like Saudi Arabia? Sudan? China? Venezuela?? Cuba?? Nigeria? Zimbabwe?

What undeveloped countries do you mean, exactly.

[murray hill farm]

17. Well..

China, Venezuela, Mexico, Cuba...yeah! But not just underdeveloped countries..i shouldnt have used that discription, but developed countries as well. Is there even a developed country in the world, except the USA that does not have health coverage for all of its citizens?

[forgethell]

19. I don't know.

But is that a "right"? Is it even a "freedom"? How much health care is a right, and what should the individual who can afford more be able to have? Should we limit private payment like Mrs. Clinton proposed?

How long has it been a right? I'm not disagreeing with the concept of public health care. I only think it is a policy decision, and not a "right". I'm willing to be persuaded, however.

But do you honestly think they have more rights in China & Cuba than we do in the United States? Really??

[murray hill farm]

20. Cuba and China do have free public health care.

i think the difference for me is rights to services from your government...basic services like health care for the poor..for everyone. Most countries with socialized medicine also have private doctors, etc. as well..so that those with money can choose to get different health care, but at least 100s of thousands do not go without health care as they do in the usa now...and education..in Cuba all education is also free to anyone..including university. The literacy rate there is 100%...and the arts are supported and job training. What about Venezuela...same there..and improving all the time. In Mexico, all health care is free to citizens...and veterinary care for your animals is free...these are things that govts do that care about their people..and we have not even yet considered scandinavian countries or european countries..or even Canada...where all of these services are rights.

[forgethell]

22. Are these

"rights to services" more import than freedom of speech? Try speaking against the authorities in Cuba. Castro makes Bush look positively benevolent. Freedom of religion? Habeas corpus? Trial by jury?

Your opinion is different from mine.

There's another freedom that Americans have. We can leave if we want to. Try that from Cuba.

[NewJeffCT]

25. I have relatives in China, they do not have free health care

My father-in-law in Nanjing, Jiangsu Province, China, was recently diagnosed with adult diabetes. They were happy, and surprised, when his company offered to pay for 70% of any medication that he needed... but, it was probably only because he had a very high position as an engineer where he works and they want him to keep working for them part-time when he retires.

American companies that do business in China also routinely offer employees in China-based offices health insurance as a perk.

[tom_paine]

21. At this moment...no. However, check back in 20 or 30 years

Even for all the Busheviks have done to destroy the Old American Republic, from a day-to-day perspective, that is the nation in which we still live.

Just as the Romans under Augustus felt little of the pain his changes wrougth. Because those changes were not fully felt until the later reigns of Tiberius, Caligula, Nero, and the rest.

As of Right now, a vast majority of Amerikan were born and raised in Free America. Hell, most still think they live there and I cannot blame them for it is true, things are largely unchanged at our level.

Just as it was in Augustan Rome.

But things follow their own course, even IF the Busheviks aren't the totalitarians I think they are, even IF it just sort of seemed like a good idea politically to re-open and re-tool the Nazi Propaganda and Big Lie Playbook.

The forces of Totalitarianism, the Orwellian Lies, the odious manipulations, the fraud, will carry things of their own accord, even IF the Busheviks aren;t purposefully pushing us there.

Like Mickey Mouse and the Dancing Brooms, they have no idea what they have gotten started (although I think they DO know, but for the puirposes here let's assume they don't) nor where it is going nor how to stop it.

In 20 or 30 years, all the poeple who remember what Free America was like, wat it stood fr, what it wouldn;t tolerate, will be old, dying, or dead.

EVERY generation of people psuhes the envelope. Well, the Busheviks shreddded the envelope on so many fronts it is impossible to list.

What envelopes will even be left for the monstrous Caligulan Granchildren of the Imperial Family to push?

Torture? Nope. Amerika already happily tortures. The only place to push that enevlope is to start doing it to our own citizens.

Lying? Again, they can only improve upon Goebbels v2.0. But the basic Old American distaste for a lie (or even the ability to distinguish one) is already dying, perhaps dead.

Etc. Etc. etc.

You are correct in that, for the moment, we are better off than China, Cuba, or Saudi Arabia.

That is generally the Bushevik argument when confronted with their eviscerations of the Constitution and Rule of Law.

But that's a piss poor peg to hang your at on. At least it would be in a Free Country. In Imperial Amerika it goes over just fine with all the rest of the Orwellian Doublethink and stuff we used to laugh at the Soviets for pulling on their dupes just a couple decades ago.

But the basic institutions of Old America have been so degenerated and atrophied, there is noplace left to go but down...not without a revolution (which usually makes things worse in as many areas as it makes better).

As I said, we still mostly live in Old America. Which is a place where a person can easily live in denial about the End of Democracy (or our democratic-republic, if you prefer), because it hasn't really fully ended yet. The corspe still is fresh and hasn't strated to stink yet. Check back when the Penultimate Transformation is complete.

It may happen quickly following LIHOP #2 or the economic calamity the Busheviks are engineering, so don't blink.

[forgethell]

23. sorry.

We're talking about now. Maybe your predictions will come true; maybe not. But in any event, they are not yet fact. And may never be.

[tom_paine]

24. True. And also, it is important to remember that there are MANY levels

between us and China, and even more between us and Saudi Arabia.

The simple fact of the matter is that the trend exists and every year since Old America died the differences between us and China become fewer and fewer, though as I discussed above, not yet noticeable in our daily lives for the most part.

But let us examine the areas in which Amerika has grown considerably closer to China in since Tiberius Bunnypants but the bullet behind Lady Liberty's ear:

Free Press: Is Imeprial Amerikan TV closer or further away to the Chinese Media since 2000 (really, since 1990 or so, which probably roughly demarks the beginning of the end for the Old American Free Press)?

That's a no brainer. Even if one doesn't consider the Imperial/Bushevik One-Party slant, the atropphy of media in the last two decades has been astonishing. OJ in 1994 showed us something was terribly, terribly wrong withthe overall infrastructure of the Media, that tremendous sea changes towards what is now a commonly accepted title of Infotainment for the whole TV "news" genre.

Cable TV News, even ignoring the obvious and pervasive Bushevik Bias, has AT the VERY LEAST become nothing more than a Public Relations/Marketing Profit Center.

Which is what, in effect, the Chinese Media is, except they do their Public Relations for the government.

Add the pervasive One-Party Bushevik Bias and the differences shrink further.

Voting Systems: Fully one-third of Imperial Amerikans vote on uninspected, unregulated, untraceable, unverifiable voting machines. Exit Polls, are disregarded and made to fit the "election" "result" after the fact, while at the same time, and insanely enough, our Corproate Infotainment Industry points loudly to Ukrainian Exit Polls as the reason for contesting that election.

Sounds pretty much like a Communist "Vote" to me.

Judicial/Legislative: The Hallmark of Free World Countries (sigh, if only to be a part of that group again!) is a system of Checks and Balances. In Totalitarian Nations (as Imperial Amerika is transitioning to) all Judges serve THE PARTY, front groups are constructed (Federalist Society, anyone?), non-Party Judges are not permitted to be appointed (yes, we are still tranisitioning, so yes we are still, for the moment, somewhat better than Saudi Arabia or China, but what's the TREND here?)

Civil Liberties: Need I cite examples of the dozens, perhaps HUNDREDS of different ways we have moved closer to China & Saudi Arabia here.

Transparency/Freedom of Information: What the Imperials are doing is WELL BEYOND what is required for anti-terrorism. but it is PERFECT for a Tyrannical and Corrupt Cabal trying to cover their tracks and delay or delete impropriteties from coming out.

AGAIN I ask: what is the trend here?

People say "but the pendulum will swing back". But the pendulum can't swing back if the clock is broken. pendulum are for nations that engage in the raucous and unpredictable cacophony that are Free Nations.

Such unruly cacophony is dying down, bringing the One-Party Totalitarian "silence".

Yes, things can get MUCH worse in Imperial Amerika (and it is certain they will for a vast majority of Imperial Subjects) and we will still be able to say "but we're still better off than China."

On the other hand, given the trends and the current unlikelihood of stopping them, China will only have to improve their Human Rights/Civil Liberties/Free Press/Judiciary just a tiny bit to equal or surpass the poor bastards who will be Imperial Subjects in 2050.

So maybe it WILL turn out to one day be true. But for NOW, in the current HERE and NOW, the trends are unmistakable.

We are now closer in form sturcture, function, level of corruption, lack of regulatory systems and checks and balances, to China or Saudi Arabia than ever before in the lifetimes of anyone alive, maybe ever.

I am not talking about brutality here, I am talking about System Integrity and Functionalyity. Even during Mccarthyism the Busheviks didn't dare try to argue '1 + 1 =3' or to substantively alter the tsructure of the Constitution as part of their bullying.

[forgethell]

28. My, my.

That was quite a rant.

I don't, myself, believe that we are any closer to China. In fact, despite the best that * can do, I think in some respects our freedoms are growing.

For instance. I don't mind the fact that the media is biased. I can still get various opinions via the Internet. And the facts that one side won't tell you, the other will.

I can read here, drop into FR, or hundreds of other blogs, liberal and conservative. Get all the information out there. Make up my own mind. Human ingenuity and technology keep us free in this respect. It's not like in the 50s, 60s, even 70s when all you had was the corporate media.

Checks & balances. Yes, we need them. But, all three branches are subject to them. That includes the judges. Evidently, the other 2 branches are trying to rein them in a little. I cannot really think this is a bad thing, even if it is our positions that suffer for it. We've had a good run with the judiciary, but I, as a small 'd' democrat, and even as a Democrat, really do not like the idea that 5 judges can override the will of the people as expressed by their elected representatives. I prefer the approach of educating and informing the people. This way, when the change is made, it will be more likely to be permanent. If we had done that with abortion, say, we would probably by now had legal abortions in all states, anyway, and not all the backlash that has finally come down on our heads.

The reason that the judicial branch is under conservative attack in Congress is because we keep losing elections. You can cry "stolen" all you want, but until you have some hard, hard evidence, not enough people will take you seriously. Besides, it's not like election haven't been stolen before. 1960 may be an example. If making false claims and personal attacks is the criterion for "stealing" an election, 1964 takes the cake. Both elections were won by Democrats.

I'm not saying that the election wasn't stolen, just asking, "where's the beef/".

[tom_paine]

35. More than a few missed connection and false dichotomies, there

"The 2 other branches are trying to rein in the judges?"

No, THE PARTY is trying to rein in opposing judges. You make it sound as if "reigning in activist judges" is a wholly bipartisan idesl that everyone agrees on.

But it is not. Further, in true Totalitarian Tradition, THE PARTY cries about judicial activism, but it is only concerned about NON-Party-Sanctioned "judicial activism" in areas that benfit their opponents. When it comes to using the judiciary to unConstitutionally (and if you can show me which article mention the Supreme Court in conjuction with deciding Amerikan Imperial "elections", you ) protect Dick Cheney's "Let's Whack Up the Iraqi Oil Fields" meeting or to support Indefinite Detentions (while trying to make it sound as if their decisions could relase our Indefinite Detiness, the ones who are Ameriman Citizens, I mean, there are currently two), or judicially modifying the Inedependant Counsel Law to target the President's underware drawer it's OK. There are MANY other exazmples of Bushevik "judicial activism, but because THE PARTY does it, it's not mentioned.

So what you are spinning as an expression of a strong democracy, is in reality an expression of deepening Totalitarianism.

If this was as you spun, something all sides were close on and something that was attacked as a problem equally regardless of which Party (THE PARTY or THE OUTS, as Bradbury correctly prophesied) was doing the Judicial Activism, then I would agree totally.

But this is so far from the case I am astonished that you could bring it up with a straight face, as it were.

Again, sir, you echo Bushevik Talking Points to a tee. I say again I don't know why and I won't ascribe motives, just that you do.

Now it's your turn to put up. In WHAT area are our freedoms growing in the last 4.5 years?

This should be an inetresting answer.

Where is the evidence that Leonid Brezhnev DIDN'T win the 1978 Soviet "election" by a margin of 98%-2%? Where, in fact, is the hard evidence that the Putinist Ukrainians did what the Bushevik Amerikans did to their "election"?

Oh, that's right, the main evidence was the validity of those pesky Exit Polls (which work in the Ukraine but not here).

So your point falls apart. Stuck again in the Orwellian hypocrisy of repeating Bushevik Talking points (now that you have confirmed for me you are a Free Republic reader). Sorry if that offends, but it is the truth as I see it.

Let me boil it down to a Bushevik-style soundbite in the hopes it may may an impact:

I am citing the identical levels of evidence from diparate Exit Polling to local and credibly alleged 'irregularities' through the nation which uniformly benefitted one-side AS THE UKRAINIANS.

Capiche? From depriving minority Democratic areas of machines to the repeated instances of electronic Kerry Votes being registered as Bush votes (and how many didn't get caught for the ones that people did catch?) and NONE in the opposite direction (I haven't the time to do your research for you...start with gregpalast.com and blackboxvoting.com), these were all registered.

In a Free Nation, they would have been addressed to some degree, if only to preserve the confidence in the integrity of the Voting System. Naturally, in Amerika, no serious investigations were performed and none will be, except by citizens and through laswuit discovery.

The last point is one which is more subjective than the rest and for that I am going to have to go to the Nazi/Soviet example.

To wit: Both the Nazis, Soviet, and their critics accused each other of identical sins.

Jews decried Nazi Propaganda. Nazis decried Jewish and Liberal Propaganda.

Soviet Opponents decried Soviet Propaganda. The Soviets decried samizdat as Western Liberal Propaganda (did you know that Russian Liberals are on the Right, and as loathed by their Authroitarian Counterparts on the Left as we are loathed by our Bushevik Authoritarians, which underscores that this is now less about Left vs. Right than Authoritarianism vs. Liberal Democracy or Tyranny vs. Liberty, if you will).

But only one side was correct. Was the other side 100% pure? Of course not. But relatively speaking, the two sides made equal accustaions of each other.

In Free Nations, this is generally the case and all Parties make roughly equal use of lies, disinformation, and spin.

Not the case in Totalitarian Nations. Not the case in Imperial Amerika.

If you watch CNN and Faux and say "Well, I am getting the Left and Right sides of the news, so the truth lies somewhere in the middle." that is (at this point in history) like saying "I watch Pravda and Isvestia so I determine the truth must lie in between."

There is very little difference now between CNN and Faux and like the frog in the boiling water, most still haven't noticed and anyone making that erroneous assumption will find themselves always in agreement with THE PARTY.

My point, the disparity of the use of lies, fraud, and industrialized deception tactics has now reached Totalitarian Proportions.

You can bitch about 1964, but in 1964, the Conservatives like Bill Rhenquist were still trying to adminster Reading Tests and Poll Taxes to suppress the Liberal Vote.

And you want to pit THAT against the Child Picking Flowers Getting Nuked commerical?

OK, if you say so...

IF 1960 was stolen, that doesn't mitigate wrongness of the stolen elections of 2000, 2002, and 2004.

Further, after the "stolen" election of 1960, JFK didn't try to radically transform the Constituition by other methods, nor turn our Intelligence Agencies into Monolithic One-Party organizations (you don't find the Purges creepy?), nor place proaganada operatives in the White House Press Corps, nor...well you get the idea.

Which doesn't make the stealing of an election any better but at least makes the consequences of allwoing it to happen less severe.

[forgethell]

37. Very impressive,

"full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

The other two branches are trying to control the judiciary. It may have slipped your attention. We do not control either Congress or the White House. The Republicans do. I never said anything about a bipartisan effort. They won, we lost. They get to make the rules now.

I understood not one word of your second paragraph. You need to work on your English writing skills. But the little that I did understand did not seem very relevant to anything that I had said. Which had nothing to do with "Amerikan Imperial elections", "Whack up the Iraqi Oil Fields", "Indefinite Detentions", by the way, what is an "Indefinite Detiness sic, or the President's "underware" sic. None of these things approached a constitutional decision. I'm not saying they were decided right. AS for the Independent counsel, well prosecutors, all prosecutors, have amazing powers to harass and intimidate people. All of them will use it, too. That said, I think the law should be changed.

If this was as you spun, something all sides were close on and something that was attacked as a problem equally regardless of which Party (THE PARTY or THE OUTS, as Bradbury correctly prophesied) was doing the Judicial Activism, then I would agree totally.

See, where you are making your mistake is in assuming that when both the legislative and the executive branches are controlled by the same party, that they need the permission of the other to enact their agenda. That's what the election is all about. Don't you get it? We lost. I wish that it wasn't so. But there is is. They do not need our permission. They do not need consensus, just the majority.

Elections in the Ukraine have nothing to do with elections in the USA. You seem to think that because I have not drunk the Kool-Aid that I must be a Freeper. Wrong. I am a Democrat who thinks that to continue to try the same thing over & over and expect a different result is the definition of stupidity. That is why I want to see some hard evidence that Bush did not actually win. That is why I read what my opponents have to say and think.

I did read the "research", and was pretty much unimpressed. But I thoroughly approve of citizen investigations and lawsuits. No one will be happier than I if they uncover some hard evidence of fraud. Enough to change the outcome, although Bush will serve out his term, regardless, I'm thinking.

Hey, didn't you know, the Nazis and the Soviets were guilty of the same, identical sins, although I prefer the word crimes. It's just the Soviets killed far more people, over a far longer period time. You are very mistaken, neither side was correct, as the verdict of history has shown.

I get my facts from newspapers, journals, magazines, TV, radio, and the internet. From various sources, so that I can make up my own mind. I am neither a left sheeple, nor a right sheeple, I'm not a sheepdog, either. I like to think of myself as independent minded wolf.

Finally, let me state this: The Democratic Party, as is the entire progressive movement in the United States, is tearing itself apart, and fracturing into various interest groups. Everyone is so concerned with ensuring that their voice is heard, and their message accepted, that there seems to be no room for compromise, not just with our Republican opponents, but with each other. Let's leave your and my disagreement out of the equation. Look around you on this board. Almost every thread there's not just argument, but personal attacks, calling out, emotional rants, etc.

And we keep insisting that the Republicans control all branches of the government, like they shouldn't do that. Why not? We did for many years, when the voters voted for us. In politics, sometimes you lose. Now, I don't agree with their policies, but I don't disagree with their right to enact them while they hold the offices. We would, and only a hypocrite would insist that they did not have that right because their defeated opponents didn't like 'em. That's what elections are about.

If the Republicans did successfully steal the election, well, as they control all 3 branches, there isn't a lot we can do about it, now is there. No prosecutor will bring charges, Congress won't investigate, judges will throw out the case.

So if you want to retain any hope, you have to assume that we really did lose the election. Then we have to figure out why the majority of the American people rejected our message. Then we have to make the necessary adjustments. I have 2 suggestions:stop spelling America with a 'k'. Stop running Mass. senators.

Really, IMO, a discussion among Democrats needs to occur. And I would like it to be civil, with respect for other opinions, even if they do drift to wards the center.

[tom_paine]

39. You misunderstood me again on several things

Yes, the Nazis and Soviets were both wrong. THEIR CRITICS were both right.

I was pointing out the one-sidedness of the "judicial activism" false dichtomy. That Judicial Activism is OK if THE PARTY does it. Otherise, it is a "mortal sin", as it were.

If you couldn't understand that, perhaps it is your English Comprehension skills that need work. Just a thought.

You don't have to patronize me regarding legislative process. I understand it quite well.

And you don't knwo the Independant Counsel Law is no more? Gotten rid of for the same reasons it was enacted in 1974, Republican abuses?

Wow. That's some old news you're missing.

And you dismiss my Ukraine/Amerika analogy with a rhetorical wave (also full of sound and fury, signifying nothing, Mr. Shakespeare, but I say again, I am making the same accusations the "Oranges" did with virtually the same levels of evidence. (which is to admitted say, I admit, little beyond the calibrational Exit Poll Numbers and local allegations).

You approve of citizen inevstigations? That's nice. But they are no substitute for active and independant, relatively nonpartisan invetsigations.

All one needs to do for examples is to crack a history book and look at 1974 in the Old Republic, Wategate.

See what a Free People and a Free Nation can do when they place Country above Party.

Do you seriously think that such could occur in Amerika (and I will continue to call it Amerika, to distinguish the America I served when I was in the Air Force in the 1980) today? Actually, it's quite laughable to thinkl of a Bushevik Senator standing to ask "What did the Emperor know and when did he know it?"

Laughable. Patehtically laughable. Such things are for Free Nations, not for us.

I find this one a howler:

So if you want to retain any hope, you have to assume that we really did lose the election. Then we have to figure out why the majority of the American people rejected our message.

Actually, I'd rather live in the Reality-Based Community than embrace false hope based on things for which there is little basis in believing.

You'd rather retain hope and believe what is mostlikely untrue. That is your right. But I have to say that if you examine history, those who have chosen your path have often regretted it.

You are correct that the Liberal Left is fracturing. Free Parties usually do when hammered in a Totalitarian Fashion.

Like the Liberal Left in 1933 Germany or the Liberal Right in BushPutinist Russia 2003.

But what you and they failed to realize, is that once Totalitarianism reaches a certain critical mass, once enough lies have been laundered into conventional wisdom, once history has been rewritten and 95% of the poeple don't an "opposition viewpoint" readily available (I am not talking about informed people who read the news, the Internet, but all of those who watch TV and little else for their "news", which is MOST of us), then NOTHING short of an "upheaval" and probably a fight, will change things.

Cling to your hope. It is you prerogative. But the simple truth is, the Democrats could run Teddy Roosevelt and Jesus Christ and couldn't "win" the 2008 "election", with this Totalitarian Media, and all the rest.

You are also correct in that one day, the lies, propaganda, bullying, intimidation, retribution and overall ignornace will be so deep, that the Busheviks won't have to steal votes to win. Perhaps that day has already passed, though I still doubt it.

After all, Hitler got only 36% of the vote in 1932. He got 99% in 1934. Even factoring out for cheating, clearly in the vast majority.

What happened to those other 30-50% who opposed Hitler intiially?

The same thing that will likely eventually happen to most of them here. Things will get so unbalanced the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality will gather steam as it does in most Totalitarian Nations.

Finally, it has been my observation that only the rhetorically (and perhaps ideologically bankrupt nitpcik typing errors.

Wanna hear something funny, yet totally true. I am a Moderate, albeit a Radicalized Moderate. To this day I believe Left and Right need each other and I decry the excesses of the Left and believe they would be as dangerosuas the Busheviks if they had gamed themselves into this position of Unchecked Power.

We are probably pretty close on a number of topics and I try to hang on to my Centrist and Rightist views so that I don't flll into mindless jingoism.

But that is a seperate issue for the "nonpartisan" (or would be if the Republicans hadn't morphed into Totalitarians) issues of the Destruction of the Old American System of Checks and balances.

[forgethell]

40. So, then

you'd rather live in the Reality-Based Community than embrace false hope based on things for which there is little basis in believing.

I hope someday that you make it. So far, though, my views seem to be more realistic. That means seeing things as they are, not as we would wish them to be.

Cling to your false analogies. If there are many more like you we will never win another election. That is reality, my friend. It would make me very sad, indeed.

But, hey, we're all on the same team. You need to remember that. We differ on strategy and tactics.

[tom_paine]

42. "I know you are but what am I?"

THAT's your big rebuttal?

Wow, I am just blown away at your rhetoric magnificence!

Yes, your views "seem" to be more realistic. They certainly are more cautious and timorous in their assessment.

Of course, that places you in the same category with these folks:

"Do you REALLY think the Executive Branch of the Government woul bug opposition offices and use Federal Agencies to target political enemies?"

"Just ignore that little man and he'll go away. The Nazis can't last forever."

"You're telling me that a major energy company could BLATANTLY and purposefully withold power from a state suffering brownouts, and that no one would invetsigate nor stop them unless they went bankrupt or something? What a crazy conspiracy theorist!"

But I can see that you already have a built in ego protection to absolve yourself from furute blame if it turns out I was right about much or all of this.

Because it MY fault the Democrats can't win. Because I spell Amerika with a 'k' (except when speaking about it piror to 2000, in which case I spell it with a 'c'). It MY uncomfortable and crazy quetsions about Voting Machines made by One-Party that are uninspectable and unaudiatble.

The audacity! So, you like every other humn being that ever lived (including me), have built in defense mecahnisms to prevent you from being forced to acknowledge having been suckered if you get suckered.

If we lose in 2008, I will know where the blame lies. Me and all the other crazy people who dared ask questions like they did in the ukraine.

Yep. All our fault. If only we'd kept quiet, recognize that criminality NEVER occurs without people getting caught (criminals ALWAYS get caught, and everyone knows it), and realized that the United States of America will last forever in it's post-WWII small 'd' democratic form.

THEN maybe we'd win. Just like keeping quiet and not rocking the boat got us the 40 hour workweek, health insurance, or the right for EVERYONE to voteto vote (everyone can vote now, they just can't get them counted).

Just like that.

[forgethell]

43. I don't

rebut BS. I ignore it.

And I will be very sorry to be proved right in 2006 & 2008. I'll accept your apology then.

cheers:)

[tom_paine]

45. Pretty funny. But thanks for proving my point.

You are all set up to absolve yourself in entirety of any blame for the current situation.

As I said above, you are incapable, no matter the outcome, of being "proved wrong".

You SURE you aren't a Bushevik? You sure share so many of their thought proceeses and chasracteristics, including being incapable of admitting you are wrong under any circumstances.

So, no matter what happens and why, I will expect you to crow that you've been "proved right".

But all that will be proven is your apparently unshakable belief in your own brilliance.

Look around and you might be astonished to find that you are the only in a VERY small group there.

(and before you lay into me with one of your brilliant "I know you are but what am I" retorts, let me say not only am I as flawed and imperfect as the next guy, I have been worng before and would love to be wrong now, and that I shoulder my share of the blame that every single American alive today shares for allowing this to happen...but not for the "brilliant" reasons you laid out, not even close)

You may return to read some more FR so that you can glean the brilliant truths that are to be found there.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. You, sir, speak Common Sense.

Bravo. :thumbsup:

[ck4829]

2. My list

I wish we had the right to oppose Bush and not get a secret service file

I wish our votes were counted

I wish we had the right to health care for every citizen

I wish we had the right to deal with Media Liars such as Fox News

[NewJeffCT]

34. On Fox News...

I think the media should be required to identify themselves accurately, as they do in other countries:

Fox News & CNN: Far Right Conservative
MSNBC, CNBC, NBC, ABC: Conservative
CBS: Moderate to Conservative

Of course, Fox & CNN will try to list themselves as moderate for as long as possible.

[aden_nak]

3. If only we had a law like this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That's be super-sweet.

[Mnemosyne]

9. Think we can get that one passed???! nt

[aden_nak]

11. With this Congress? No way!

And sadly, I believe that.

[d_b]

13. I like the press part

Can we get this enacted?

[mirandaod]

4. Universal health care.

that's the big one for me, and the reason I probably won't move back to the US from Europe. After 12 years of paying reasonable health care fees, I don't think we can go back to the US system. Especially now, when we're in our fifties and trying to save for retirement.

[Sugarbleus]

6. The right to FIRE a president who has failed...

at any time during his term. A separate counsil/(?) that takes the grievances of significant portions of the population along with any unlawful misbehaviors of the sitting prez and bring his ass DOWN.

A "No Confidence Vote/petition"

*Same could hold true for Sen. and Rep.s* :spank:

It should be POWER TO THE PEOPLE, NOT POWER TO THE POLITICIANS.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. You could move to Venezuela.

Yes, it's only at one point, halfway through term, but still.

[RPM]

7. start with all the ones we had back in 1995

thats a good beginning...

[UdoKier]

8. Living wage, single Payer healthcare, universal preschool, university

And no personhood for corporations.

[Mnemosyne]

10. I'm a pacifist, but...

if a corporation WERE a person I'd kick it's stinking inhumane ass!!!

on edit> I wish I could get my mail without it being taped shut. Yes, it happens often. Anyone else get mail that has been taped? I have witnesses and evidence. Seems to have stopped for now, but for about 2 months sometimes 3 out of 5 pieces were taped shut. Weird huh?

[ernstbass]

12. legal marajuana

[durutti]

14. Food, clothes, and shelter (and healthcare).

Legalizing marijuana would be nice too.

Oh, and I'd like to see the voting age lowered to 16.

[Auntie Bush]

15. The right to vote and have our votes counted.

[walldude]

18. The most basic right there is..

What I'd like to see, is a way to actually vote. Not have a representative do it for me. After seeing all the Dems supporting the bankrupcy bill I don't think I'm represented at all. What we need is a secure way for all Americans to vote on laws and bills and amendments. We need a hacker whiz kid to come up with an unbreakable encryption and set it up so any American with a computer could cast their vote. If we spent half as much money coming up with a system like that as we do killing people we could have a system within 5 years. A true Democracy.

[NewJeffCT]

26. Universal health care & preschool for starters

Somebody the other day posted an article from Slate magazine about how the one aspect of our healthcare system that is nationalized - the VA hospitals - generally perform much better than our regular hospitals.

[leftofthedial]

27. health care

a free press

child care

parental leave for both parents

reasonable paid vacation time

a living minimum wage

a reasonable ratio between worker pay and executive pay

[welshTerrier2]

30. all that stuff in the, you know, Constitution and the Bill of Rights

it's all in there already ... well, most of it is ...

if we could work towards a system where each citizen had a relatively equal say, we'd be fine ... right now we have a system where our government has been sold to the highest bidder ...

with shared power, rights and freedoms would follow ...

[LeftHander]

32. Ride a skateboard without getting a ticket...

Protest without a permit or being forced into a free speech zone...

[rndmprsn]

33. HEALTHCARE as a hunam right! NT

[Red_Thirst]

36. Protection from hate speech

I reckon protection from hate speech for religious people would be a good right.

Many religious people in America today are subject to hate speech from secular people, for example Christians.

What we need is a body to protect and promote religion.

In the UK we have a body called the Church of England.

In our progressive western democracy we have a unified church and state as per our unwritten constitution.

In strict constitutional terms, in the UK all authority derives from God and is delegated through the crown to the courts (including parliament which is a court etc.)

Although in modern times we have configured our institutions into the form of a semi-secular democracy they are not.

I reckon that if the US repealed the establishment clause of the United States Constitution and replaced it with something like: -

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, except the Church Militant of the United States of America, as provided elsewhere in this document."

(And then obviously a section elsewhere explaining the new fourth branch of government's powers, duties and relations with the other branches.}

This would prevent religious hate speech.

[porphyrian]

38. The ones we're supposed to have, according to our own Constitution. - n/t

[tinonedown]

41. A clear, open and fair election process

The past four/five years have been questionable at best, fraudulent at worst. Give us what we need the most - a voice.

[KurtNYC]

44. The right to elect the President of our choice

Haven't had that for 6 years or so.

[BoogDoc7]

46. A defined...

Right to privacy. It's not spelled out in the Constitution.