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Ron Reagan just did a great bit on the right wing and gays.

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TNDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 12:56 PM
Original message
Ron Reagan just did a great bit on the right wing and gays.
He was saying that Santorum and Scalia talking about sex with dogs and bestiality being somehow related to gay marriage and it makes you wonder what kind of video collection these guys have at home. He also said if you have them over for dinner to lock up the dog!
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Hobarticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Santorum's oddly obsessed with the subject...
Santorum: Every society in the history of man has upheld the institution of marriage as a bond between a man and a woman. Why? Because society is based on one thing: that society is based on the future of the society. And that's what? Children. Monogamous relationships. In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing. And when you destroy that you have a dramatic impact on the quality Ñ

AP: I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about "man on dog" with a United States senator, it's sort of freaking me out.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/04/22/national1737EDT0668.DTL
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I bet they have some fun circle jerks
Over at Clarence Thomas' house.:evilgrin:
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Many Native American tribes sanctioned gay marriage
I'll document this later, if anyone would like.
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. And in some societies man+woman+woman+woman=marriage
Does this mean he's for polygamy :think: ?
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ikri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Every society in the history of man....
Except the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, pretty much all the classical civilizations in fact.

Good job Santorum isn't a history student, he'd never get a passing grade.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. I love Ron Reagan. That piece was hysterical! n/t
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. It makes me wonder too
Box Turtles, Dogs, and Ducks. I fear for the poor animals of the world because the RW is hurting them in ways I don't want to imagine.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Isn't it Randall Terry who has the gay porn collection for "research"
purposes - and it proved to be helpful to his gay son in his effort to understand his gay orientation when he was a young teenager?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Native Americans and Gay Marriage
Edited on Wed Mar-09-05 02:25 PM by IanDB1
Appended below are some excerpts from a conversation I had with a friend of mine. I'm going to cross-post this in the DU Native American Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=312x1


------
I've found the following interesting info on Native Americans
ad gay marriage:

http://www.barbelith.com/topic/13712/from/35

"I am thinking about the Navajo Indians. Many of their creation myths include
the creation of hermaphrodites (commonly as the first people) and some also
include the creation of the masculine female and feminine male. They don't see
people in terms of just two sexes- male and female.

"These "Two Spirit" people encompassed what we would call transvestites,
transexuals, gays, lesbians, and bi's.

"Two Spirits were seen as completely natural- often sacred. Sometimes they were
seen as Shamans.

"Often Two Spirit's could marry someone of the same sex! In fact..."same sex
marriage was expected of the religious practitioners who played important roles
in christening children, curing fertility, or organizing funeral rituals."
(Crapo, 40)

Every culture has the concept of marriage albeit in different words and forms.
Also every culture has religions- though not everyone in the culture believes
in them or practices them exactly.

"Same sex marriages did occur in some of the Navajo and Pueblo Native American
Indians. There are also places in West Africa where women could marry women.

Other people groups such as the Sambians, Etoro's, and some Peruvian and
Siberian peoples held homosexual acts as social duty. The Sambians encouraged
sex between the male warriors to make them more masculine. The Etoro's believed
that men had a limited supply of semen and had to replinish my having oral sex
with other men.

Some groups believed that true love was between men and the men only had sex
with their wives on scheduled events for reproductive means.

"What you beleive is real is real in its consequences" And your culture defines
what is real.

Some people practice polygyny- multiple wives (usually sisters) and others
practiced polyandry- where women had multiple husbands (usually brothers).

Society won't crash with these other forms of marriage, imo.

Sources.

Cultural Anthropology, Marvin Harris. 6th Edition.

Anthropology of Religion, Richley Crapo.

Back to freedom of religion- what about certain sects of Mormons or Muslims that
believe they have the religious right to polygyny? What about Navajo Two Spirits
who may live off the reservations and want to marry.

If I were these Activists- I would get two gay Navajo men and have them get
married in San Fransciso or a town that is doing the marriages- then if the
marriages are ever deemed invalid or whatever- I would sue on basis of
Religious tolerance and freedom.

Sidenote- many Mormons and Muslims believe that their religions advocated
monogamy. It is beleived that Mohammed only institutionalized polygyny because
many muslim men had died during battles and there wasn't enough men to protect
the woman. Probably the same can be said due to Mormon Persecution etc.

----

Homosexuality is
traditionally condoned in Cherokee culture but it's
true that there is no tradition of
homosexual/transsexual marriage the way there is in
the Pueblos and some of the Plains tribes.


Some native
people are also concerned that the state will stop
recognizing marriages performed by them if this
happens. (I don't know what the state of Oklahoma is
doing about the lesbian couple the Cherokee Nation
already married--the Cherokees are not going to annul
that marriage, and Oklahoma is legally obligated to
recognize Cherokee marriages. Stay tuned for some sort
of very interesting lawsuit in the near future.)


There are longstanding traditions of
homosexual/transgender marriage in the Pueblo and
Plains Indian tribes, but within specific cultural
contexts. Research "lhamana" (Zuni pueblo) and
"winkte" (Sioux tribe) for more information. In
general, they are often referred to as "two-spirit,"
"changing ones," or "berdache," though that last one
is an anthropological term disliked by most Indians.
These aren't names for just any old gay people (though
those also tended to be tolerated in many Native
American tribes)--the two-spirits are gay and/or
transgender subcultures that fill a very specific
cultural and spiritual niche in these societies. I
believe that in the Pueblos two-spirit men could
choose to marry either a woman or another man, so they
were transgender people who were either homosexual or
heterosexual, whereas among the Sioux I think winktepi
were always homosexual. Not 100% sure about that
though.

As with most native spirituality, the two-spirit
tradition has been exploited by a lot of ignorant and
ofttimes disrespectful white people in search of more
mysticism in their lives. There are an awful lot of
young gay people with a Native American
great-great-grandmother who declare that they are
"two-spirit people" when in actual fact they are not,
and then go around trying to speak for people they
know almost nothing about. So tribes that do have a
two-spirit religious tradition, ongoing or otherwise,
are often not at all interested in sharing it, or
other religious traditions, with outsiders.

Here are some links, though I haven't put in any
effort to determine the authenticity of any of these
groups:

http://mntwospirits.20m.com/
http://www.itsg.20m.com/
http://www.nwtwospiritsociety.org/
http://www.baaits.org/
http://denvertwospirit.com/
http://www.aaip.com/programs/2spirit.html
http://www.2spirits.com/

You can look around their websites or contact them for
more information. I would ask that you be especially
respectful of any tribe or organization's preference
not to include outsiders into a religious tradition
that belongs to them and only to them. The very last
thing any of the involved parties need is any more
perception by native elders that gay white Americans
are pushy and cooptive or that gay Indians are
inviting pushy and cooptive outsiders to pester the
tribes. Unfortunately a lot of bad apples have already
given that impression and it can be hard to counter. I
think that on average American Indians tend to be much
MORE tolerant than the general American population,
but as you know there has been a lot of ugly history
full of lies, suppression and subversion and mockery
of native beliefs, demands and presumptuousness, and
the rather arrogant opinion that Indians MUST share
their ways with any white person who asks them to.
Well, who wouldn't be a little suspcious under these
circumstances?

You can feel free to pass this message along to anyone
else on your mailing list.

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