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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:49 AM
Original message
Gannon Wrinkles Part 6
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 11:52 AM by Andy_Stephenson
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Andy, any more word from Mrs. Gosch?
At least a tease if you can...
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. We have been corresponding over the last few days.
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 11:56 AM by Andy_Stephenson
She has been instructed by her attorney not to make a statement at this time. I will respect her wishes on this.

edited for spelling.



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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks!
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Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. A curious natural history mention
On the face of it, Gannon's umbrage at being compared to a chipmunk by Jonah Goldberg (see his February 16 entry on his blog), and his preference to be thought of as a badger instead, are just comical.

http://jeffgannon.com /

But if Guckert grew up in Pennsylvania where he went to a state school, there are no badger populations. There are, however, badgers in Iowa.

It's an unusual animal to identify with if you haven't grown up with them in your bioregion. Not many literary instances of badgers, the most famous one being in Wind in the Willows. That one's character was far more that of a mature "adult" than the other animals, and it's not likely that most boys would identify with him.

I tried to track down school mascots in West Des Moines where Noreen's office is, and didn't find any as school mascots as far as I could tell. Anyone know exactly where Johnny went to school, or whether badgers figure as anything meaningful to him?

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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
44. Interesting post! That would be another good questions for ...
The folks identified in the last thread who grew up near Johnny Gosch.

And, by the way, welcome to DU!
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. I think Gosch"s grade school was called Fairhaven or Fairmeadows.
In thread 5, there was as link to an Iowa board where people were discussing the gannon/gosch link. Several mentioned living near where Johnny grew up, and gave the names of teachers. Sorry I con't have the exact link.

Also, it seems to me that James D. Gucket is an assumed identity. The one who when to college in Chester is to old, and it would make sense for him to be the one who is described as a manager.

If Gannon is Gosch and had the kind of experiences he had from 12 on, then his education had to be very hit or miss. One would expect his actual writing style to be somewhat immature and unpolished.

Johnny was described as a very clever boy: a clever person would know the advantage of appearing to be dumber than he was, and could also have self-educated himself.

Has Gannon been interviewed by any blogger after issuing his offer? Has anyone from DU tried to do so?
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
163. why does everybody say he is too old be 47?
He was in the marines, and not to perpetrate a stereotype, but if he was a gay hustler proud of his body, he probably worked out a lot.
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
162. I've lived in Iowa my whole life
I've never seen a badger, and I grew up out in the country. Not likely someone growing up in Des Moines would have seen one either. The University of Wisconsin has a Badger as a mascot. Always a chance he was a Wisconsin fan, but not too likely him referencing a badger means anything.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Andy can you email me...
libertypirate@comcast.net

I have something I think you would might wish to share with some folks...
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
75. Interesting...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. corroboration Thompson had longtime interest in WH gay prostitution
From an interview this week with Alex Jones. Thanks to Johny Canuck for posting it in another thread:

ALEX JONES: We're talking to a renowned journalist and writer, Paul William Roberts. Wrote a story for The Globe & Mail up in Canada where he talked about Hunter S. Thompson before he died mysteriously a few weeks ago, saying he believed the government may have been involved in 9/11, and he was concerned. He lived basically in a little armored compound... now they're saying he committed suicide.

But Paul has also interviewed people like Saddam Hussein; has written on the subject -- just this whole global empire...

CALLER "Scott from Texas": I was just wondering if you guys might be able to clear up something I heard through the journalist Sherman Skolnick. He is reporting that another story or book, I don't remember exactly which, that Hunter S. Thompson was working on was about this gay prostitution ring in the White House and supposedly that was another touchy topic that he brought out, and the whole...

JONES: Had you heard that from Hunter?

PAUL WILLAM ROBERTS: Yeah, I had heard that quite a lot from Hunter. It goes back to Kissinger, I believe.
http://www.total411.info/2005/03/hunter-thompson-friend...
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Excellent interview
I tried to point that out in thread4....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

So we have HST interested in such material...He's dead
We have the relatives of a Federal Judge , supposedly presiding in secret over Plame hearings said to supposedly involve testimony of Gannon...they're dead, Judge shaken ...message sent

smells like smoke
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. Can you point me to the discussion about the judge
Thank you.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Yes, please provide a link to the discussion regarding the judge
and the plame investigation. Thanks
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Andy! Still active I see, how ya feeling?
I have a odd question for you. When did you first start to feel these pains you are having, that caused you to go get checked out?

The reason I'm asking is, the areas these threads are getting into are very dangerous, and if you are on to something, could expose some VERY power people to major embarrassment or Prison.

Now you might think I'm being very paranoid, but, in the past, people who have tried to expose these type of people, have ended up on this list. :tinfoilhat:Check out this link, and you will know what I'm getting at:

<http://bushbodycount.com/list.php?catid=23&blogid=2 >

All I'm saying is, be extra careful :scared:
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. Was sick before the Gosch Gannon thing
I was sitting home pondering all of the Gannon threads...when I got a phone call.

No tinfoil in the sickness.

It is legit.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. It would probably be wrong to say, good to hear that; I do hope...
...your treatment goes well. Did the Doctor give you a prognosis?

On the "Tinfoil" issue (which I do concede could be just me being paranoid) Do be Extra careful, this is dangerous territory. :pals:
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DARE to HOPE Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
99. Wow! Andy! So glad you are back!
THANKS for all the fascinating stuff.

Just wanted to remind you--coconut oil and coconut milk will help your colon heal. It did mine. Add the oil to oatmeal, organic eggs, or anything you can eat. It greases and heals IBS and all other colon clutches, and the good protein from the eggs will help repair the area after the surgery. (My own "clutch" started the middle of the night Nov 2!)

Coconut milk heated thinned with a little water, then with a little raw honey (also very healing) and vanilla--very soothing, easy to digest, and will caress your colon back to health.

Just look it up in Google: "coconut health" if you don't believe me. Cascara sagada is an herb that also relaxes the area, but don't get dependent on it.

God bless.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
161. Thanks for the link...
Yikes! When you see all the names together it makes you wonder...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Reality check on Johnny Gosch connection
I know this is somewhat peripheral to the very interesting claims and connections that are developing here, but I just wanted to insert a note of caution on one aspect.

Somewhere in this monster thread and often in other sources, the Bonacci/Gosch connection comes up. Bonacci was the alleged victim of pedofile abuse who claims that Bosch was kidnapped into this gay pedofile circle. Bonacci is important to the Gosch/Guckert/Gannon identification, because he is the only person who puts Gosch into the child sex ring other than Gosch's mother.

In some contexts, people have written something to the effect that Bonacci's story is documented fact, because in Bonacci's suit against alleged credit union/child abuse pimp Lawrence King, the judge in the case, Judge Urbom, wrote a decision saying, basically that all this sexual abuse actually happened.

Here is the note of caution -- and I'm not sure, but it's worth a check. I believe I read somewhere that the suit against Lawrence King in which all this stuff came out which formed the basis of Judge Urbom's opinion was a default judgment against King. King was already in prison for fraud in connection with the collapse of the Franklin credit union.

That means that Bonacci's testimony was uncontested. Therefore the judge in such circumstances just reiterates whatever the plaintiff alleges because there is no cross examination of contradictory evidence. The plaintiff's testimony and the testimony of the plaintiff's witnesses automatically becomes "uncontradicted evidence" and are recited in the judge's opinion. So the entire opinion is not really good journalistic evidence that "these things actually heppened." The judges opinion in other words, may not mean that the judge believes any of this happened; it merely means that one party stated so in court and no one contradicted him.

Just a thought.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. King chose to drop his defense
So what does that say about the strength of Bonacci's case?

Also, the Gosch's said Bonacci knew things about their son a stranger could not have known.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks for the clarification!
If he dropped his defense before the defense testimony began than all that evidence led by Bonacci and his witnesses was uncontested and can get into the decision even if the judge doesn't really believe it happened. If plaintiff says the sky is green and defendant says nothing, then for the weird purposes of civil procedure and evidence, the sky indeed is green.

Maybe we can find out when King dropped his defense.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. O wait a minute -- I take that back
The defense would have had specific and general denials in his answer to the plaintiff's complaint. But it's still possible for a lot of this evidence to be uncontradicted. Still depends on when King dropped his defense.

Any litigators out there?
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. And wait a minute myself - I found an AP story
from Jan 13, 2000 that clears up the confusion (apologies that it's cited to a freep link).

King did not file a court response to the accusations, so a default judgment was entered. But King appealed to the Eighth US Circuit Court of Appeals, but then dropped that.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3886761c4a1d.htm
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hey Andy - this is for you!
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 12:21 PM by merh





So glad you made #6 & hope you get some rest! Don't over do it. Take time to rest so your body can fight the nasty stuff!

Glad you are in better spirits!! :hug:

Prayers and positive energies coming your way!


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tuffylee Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think it's Gosch
Perhaps someone should look closer in to the Eberle role in all of this. We all know that 36 year-old Bobby Eberle, who lives in Houston, just happened to be in Washington on Sept. 11 and witnessed the Pentagon attack. There are conflicting reports as to the relationship between Bobby Eberle and Bruce Eberle, some say they are brothers, some say they are not related. They obviously have a business connection through GOPUSA.

Bruce Eberle happens to sit on a Board of Trustees for "Youth for Tomorrow" www.youthfortomorrow.org

"Since 1986 YFT has offered new hope and new opportunities to young men who have been abandoned, abused, or otherwise alienated from home or community. YFT is a residential home, accredited school, and counseling center serving at-risk teenage young men between the ages of 11-18. Some are substance abusers, some are juvenile offenders, others are homeless by choice or circumstance"

Reminded me of Boys Town in the Franklin scandal. Oliver North and Brit Hume are also on the Board of YTF.
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
49. Youth for Tomorrow was started by Joe Gibbs, the
football coach of the Washington redskins (I hate that name). It is located not too far from the town where Bishop was arrested, in Northern Virginia, conveniently close to DC.

Could Eberle have been one of those victims too? Does he have a past? I'm being wildly speculative here, but that's what this is all about. Could he have "known" Bruce Eberle and taken his name? Also, one of the boys killed by Joubert, an enlisted man from Offut, was an Eberle. Is Eberle that common a name?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow Andy! I've been following these threads 1-5...this is heavy stuff!
Would certainly explain why there is virtually no history on this guy before college.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Nothing before college? No Mom or Dad?
When Gannongate first began to break, Gannon/Guckert said he was shutting down to protect his family. I vaguely remember something about his mother -- maybe about her receiving harassing phone calls. If Gannan/Guckert has a Mom or Dad, that pretty much means he's not Gosch.

But it would be really weird if he has no parents or siblings, wouldn't it. No history before college, indeed? Please elaborate if you can!
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I don't believe we know who "mom" is...
I only know what I read on these threads and catch on TV (and we know how that goes...) I've read all threads 1-5 and at the risk of dating myself-I remember the abduction story. Nothing surprises me anymore. Such a tragic story...I can't even imagine...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
80. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Then who is his brother?
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 03:06 PM by Must_B_Free
And - did bloggers know his identity at the time the claim was made by Gannon?
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #80
171. Please take this down. It's not right to post personal information.
No matter how interesting this thread is, it really isn't fair to do this.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. I looked and found it was Gannon who claimed this,
in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. I wasn't able to find any other reference to this detail, however I didn't look thoroughly.

In the same interview he claimed he had a brother and siterin law who had also received harassing calls.

This does not correlate with the fact that no blog has claimed to know who Gannon's mother is or where she lives. If this were the case, then we would know where he likely grew up and would have found high school info, perhaps yearbook photos.

The only claim erlier than Westchester TKE photo was some type of teacher in the twon in upper PA between Erie and Cleveland. He claimed to know a Guckert and suggested to search the archives of the school papers. I believe ths reference was in thread 5. It was a copy of a rumour from a blog.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. Here it is...E&P
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/search/article_display.j...

On resigning this week

"It was my decision to leave, he said, and I left on good terms. They were very supportive of me, and it was only after members of my family contacted me about being harassed that I decided to leave."

Guckert claimed that his family began being harassed a week ago. Asked how this was possible, when his real name didnt even surface until late Monday, he held to the view that "it was out there a week ago, and that is when it started. My mother and my brother and his wife in Pennsylvania were being harassed with phone calls and threats."

When asked how he felt about Talon and GOPUSA removing his stories from their sites, and what that might suggest about him, he said, "That bothers me sometimes. I stand behind everything I wrote, and if people disagree with it that is okay. But this is part of this invasion of examining every single thing in my life."
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
101. What if June Guckert was his adopted mother ? He still could've been
abducted when young, and then somehow his "abducters" created a new "history" (family) for him (even if in name only). That would explain his almost invisible past. He could've continued "in the service" of his abducters, yet still had a "family" he could reference if his true identity ever was questioned.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #101
113. That is what everyone here
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 04:34 PM by slaveplanet
wants to hash out...and the main purpose of these threads.

Most likely If thats his Mother in Coneaut lake , he's not Gosch and not adopted
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. Great they lock the thread while I'm drafting
A response to The Magistrate in thread 5. I must type really slowly.

For what it's worth:

But I'm not ready to dismiss this issue. I've already expressed my opinion that JG is a tool, a tar-baby, which as you so eloquently state, would indeed fall into the classification of a low grade trickster. There are too many loose ends here to dismiss the issue altogether, however, that's divergent to the reason of this post.

I will simply point out that the allegations I've seen in support of the child sex-slave rings are not specifically leveled at the Republican Party. The claims of participation are made without regard to political boundaries, but rather, seem to point back to the CIA. Numerous investigators of this case have met an untimely demise at extremely convenient moments.

As to the issue of the cooperation of local authority in the obfuscation of fact, is it not the obligation of local authority to cooperate with federal authority? The perceptions of those at the local level are easily manipulated with nebulous concerns for national security.

I seriously doubt that the Bush family is the nexis of this. I do believe that they are close enough to it to have been provided this tool to be used in the manipulation of the political landscape.

Our position here is somewhat akin to the position physicists were in whilst trying to understand the nature of the solar system. They intuitively understood that unknown forces were at work, and as each force was discovered, the accuracy of the overall view resolved itself clearer.

-Hoot
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I think it's worth a whole hell of alot!
Nice assessment and analogy!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
126. why Kenya? n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
159. I like that, Hoot. Well put. n/t
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. Andy... about Bishop
I had already read Noreen's account of the history of the case. Which is WHY I have the question. Paul Bishop claimed to Noreen that he was a "CIA asset", when he spent time with her "helping" on the case, and in her congressional testimony. She has positively identified George Paul Bishop, the recently arrested child pornographer as the same person.

Do you think he WAS a CIA asset, or do you think he was just a sicko pornographer getting jollies from hanging with her, or part of a porn ring watching her, or WHAT?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I am highly skeptical that Guckert is Gosch
HIGHLY skeptical, but keeping an ever so slightly open mind.

I WOULD, however, like to know what the hell Bishop was doing in Noreen's house for a year, claiming to be CIA, and now he is arrested for child pornography. That is a very strange combo.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. I'm sure you saw post 299 on thread 5
It seemed that Bishop was telling on Sam for setting up Johnny. Then on the other hand Sam was saying that Bishop was involved. Yet they knew each other. They both seem to have played Noreen. Confuse the issue and lead people to the wrong conclusions.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I read the 37 page PDF of Noreen's story
and agree that Sam Soda and Paul Bishop knew one another and it appears they BOTH may have been playing her.

As I say, I am skeptical about Gannon being Gosch, BUT the Gosch / Paul Bishop / Sam Soda story is mighty interesting. I'd like to know what Paul Bishop has been doing for the last 20 years.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I'm still skeptical
But the silence is roaring. I think we have already gone beyond a possible Rovian game and are now in uncharted waters.

I don't see how anyone could be attacking Gannon's family if no one knows who they are. Unless he is referring to Noreen. :shrug:

Now I haven't researched everything, but where is Gosch Sr?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. This is what I have thought since the FIRST
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 01:45 PM by troubleinwinter
moment he mentioned his mother, brother and sister-in-law being harassed!!!!! I KNEW none of us knew who/where these 'Guckert' people are!

I doubt Noreen feels harrassed... at least not at that point that he mentioned it (I don't even thing the Gosch issue had been brought up at that point).

Andy has spoken at length with her, and Andy never mentioned that she was being harassed.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
58. Noreen has no idea where
Gosch Sr is. I already asked her.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #58
85. Thanks
I didn't know if anyone has mentioned him.
The prick must have taken his money and ran. To hear Noreen tell on the radio that he was going around with a phony wife and all.
According to that picture of Sr with the kidnap pictures, he must have played along for a while. How quick did she dump him?
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Bishop appeared before Congress with Gosch.
I don't think it needs to be an either/or. My speculation: Bishop was both a CIA asset and part of the porn ring. His role was to win her confidence, and possibly derail her inquiry.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
57. Hard to say...
"do you think he was just a sicko pornographer getting jollies from hanging with her, or part of a porn ring watching her, or WHAT?"

But is has been established he was in the Coast Guard I believe.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. excellent work Andy
:hi:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
26. Photo
From the fraternity Alumni site. Click on the seventh photo.. Look at the man in the red shirt.

http://www.tkema.com/Beef_And_Beer_2001 (Photo_Gallory).htm

??
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. That link does not seem to work
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 01:22 PM by troubleinwinter
Go to:

http://www.tkema.com/Welcome_Message.htm

Then: Photos
Then: Beef and Beer 2001
Then: photo #7
Then: Look at the man in the red shirt
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. delete
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 01:27 PM by elehhhhna
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. That's why I couldn't post the link!
The "illegal code" thing. But you saw it, right? What do you think of the man in the red shirt?
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Gosch, methinks its Gangert!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. OK, so that may be another
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 01:40 PM by troubleinwinter
little bit of evidence that Guckie is indeed an almni of the college and the fraternity.

(I got sick of looking at the chimpliar... HAD to get rid of that sig. Ew.)
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. delete
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 01:39 PM by notadmblnd
going to try it another way

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. Sure looks like Gannon Guckert to me.
If Goesh was 12 in 78, that would make him 35 in 2001. GG looks older than his classmates here, but not 43 (if he's 47 now).
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
118. Doesn't look like G/G/G??? (nt)


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
70. sorry, I don't think it looks like gannon at all.
There's a lot more resemblance between gosch & gannon and gosch sr & gannon than with this guy.

Also, note he's slightly pudgy. Does that sound like gannon?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Are you talking about the man in the red shirt here?
Taken in 2001. He does not look 'pudgy' to me, but more like omeone who works out to build muscle.

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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
165. Hard to tell, photo is taken at a weird angle.
But I think he looks kinda fat to be our boy. Both my boyfriend and I think he looks too old to be Gankert. Could be... but I'm not convinced.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. yeah, that certainly looks like him.
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Tari Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
50. "Webmaster J.D. Guckert" found
At that site, go to "Members" on left, then "Minutes" on next page. His name appears as recently as April 26, 2003, at which time "J.D. has mentioned he can't commit the needed time to the project..."

1st post. Hope I did it correctly.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. Ya did it right! And Guckert also
became an alumni donor in 2003. As if he is trying, 23 years after graduation, to become a 'pillar of society'.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. good catch
welcome to DU :hi:

here is a link to the .pdf of the minutes: http://www.tkema.com/minutes/Minutes-2003%20April%2026....
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
84. Welcome! : )It also says he is a big brother to a Greg (Billy Bob) Horst.
Good find.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #50
96. Also here, just below
Alumni Big Brother Program, Rob Roberts:
Alumni Big Brothers are being assigned to undergraduate members today:
Jamie Goncharoff John Rozance
Greg Barber Justin Baker
Jim Kennedy Dan Hill
Roy Reinard Eric Smith
J.D. Guckert Greg (Billy Bob) Horst
Tom Omlor Ed Wheland
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #96
132. Anyone called...
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 05:03 PM by understandinglife
....Josh Rohan, MA since, apparently, his big brother is J.D. Guckert, MA 248. Maybe he has "J.D. Guckert, MA 248" telephone number .....

See:
http://www.tkema.com/Alumni_Big_Brother_Program.htm


TBO;24/7
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
112. Has this been covered Yet?
http://www.jackblood.com/index/id1.html
Jeff Gannon entertains Tony Blair?

It's the question even the mainstream-left AMERICABlog wants to know of GOP operative and male prostitute "Jeff Gannon": "In what capacity did you entertain Tony Blair during his visit on July 17, 2003?"

The question arises because of a note in the minutes of a meeting of the TKE fraternity chapter at West Chester University's alumni association. "Gannon" had been participating in chapter affairs under the identity of "J. D. Guckert," an alumnus of the chapter. The Aug. 24 2003 minutes report of a July 17 advisory board meeting that "JD Guckert was busy entertaining the Prime Minister of Great Britain (not a joke)."

And in the story Gannon filed, he seems to have been present at the Blair / Bush news conference, and possibly even their "private meeting." READ MORE
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. 
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 04:35 PM by seemslikeadream
:wow:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
62. That looks like gannon
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:23 PM by merh
so that was a 2001 party?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. A 2001 fraternity alumni party
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
74. Did you look at TKE's main site and notice who was a TKE?
Ronald W. Reagan (Iota)
40th President of the United States of America

http://www.tke.org/about_tke/distinguished_tekes.htm

of course the entertainment TKE's is interesting, Elvis, Willie Nelson, Merv Griffin

There is also the military TKE's - but I do not see Guckert listed
http://www.ryic.com/dev/tkemil/
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
42. following this, IMHO gannon is NOT goesch, but that does not mean
there isn't a pedophile-kidnapping/neocon/BFEE connection.

I AM suspicious of no apparent information on Guckert's family or past...but for different reasons than thinking he is/was goesch.

I also am not surprised to contemplate a Bush family connection to exploitation of children...since I think Bush is the antichrist, that does not seem all that far fetched.

But as an artist, I'm looking at the photo comparisons of Goesch and Gannon, and I think there is enough DISsimilarity to discount them being the same person. I also wonder if that line of speculation is too distracting to the real issues of who Guckert was, why he was greased to be in the press conferences, why he was (apparently) never security cleared...or if he was, why his other connections did not red flag him for refusal. I think the unnecessary distraction of whether he was Goesch is too difficult to prove, and may in fact be a convenient way to discount the rest of the discussion unfairly.

IMHO
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Gannon with hair, bad photoshop but might help
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:04 PM by Pawel K
Here is a quick photoshop image I did on my break:

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
87. Didn't work.
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 03:34 PM by merh
Edited: because you fixed the link!
Thanks for this image. It helps. :thumbsup:


Welcome to DU! :hi:
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #87
92. Should work now
looks like the CIA is trying to silance this :P.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. I am with you.
I think the Gosch subject is an interesting one, particularly with the recent arrest of George Paul Bishop. However, I don't think it has to do with Guckert's story.

Now, on to Guckert... He apparently did attend college at Westchester, and was TKE, evidently graduating in 1980. He claims to have been military (Marines, according to his client testimonials). Is it usual for a person to enter the military AFTER college? I thought it was more usually done before college, in order to help pay for schooling. If one enters AFTER college, one gets a better position in the service??

He claims to have taught public school. When/where. Why would someone leave teaching to paint trucks (2000)?

As for security cleared to enter the White House... I wonder if he has some kind of military security clearance.



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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. Is 1980 graduation a hard fact?
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:32 PM by Old and In the Way
I look at those pics taken in 2001....looks more like the class of 1990 than 1980. If it is, then, yes Gannon can't be Goesch.

On edit....OK, I forgot this was a frat, not a class....so it makes sense that he'd be mixed in with more recent graduates.

I'd say the trail dead ended on the Goesh-Guckert connection.
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. I disagree about the distraction bit.
If there were one person working on this G/G thing, okay, but that's not the case. Why shouldn't the purveyors of one thread on one discussion board follow up the obviously viable speculations that have been posted throughout the length of the thread? I don't think the photo posted above proves anything. Raises some questions? Sure, but many of the posts on all 5 threads have done that.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. oh, sorry, I didn't mean to rain on anyone's speculation...
just saying I think its tenuous at best, and when it falls through (and I think it will), it will tend to tarnish the rest of the discussion, which IMHO is more worthwhile.

The connection is based on finding facial similarities between an age-accelerated facsimile and adult photos of Guckert....AND, in my opinion, as someone who does a lot of portraits/caricatures, there is not enough facial similarity to draw the conclusions being drawn.

I think its a fruitless rabbit hole to fall into. That doesn't mean people can't continue to fall into it if they desire. They are expressing their opinions of what they see as a connection...AS AM I.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. As A Point Of Curiousity, Ma'am
What are your difficulties with that photograph? Why do you feel it proves nothing?
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #68
93. I should think that would be obvious to a person so well-versed in
logic as yourself.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
67. As A Point Of Curiousity, Mr. Lerkfish
Since you seem to accept now this Guckert creature is not the unfortunate young Mr. Gosch from Iowa, what is the basis for continuing to cling to allegations of pedophile involvemnet that arose originally from attempts to connect that unfortunate child to Guckert?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. wasn't aware that I was clinging to allegations....
reread my post...

I said I didn't think there was enough facial similarity to make a connection, but that that in and of itself does not disprove any potential connection of BFEE to child exploitation.

I also said the connection was not surprising to contemplate, since I consider Bush the antichrist.

that seems very far removed from "clinging to allegations".

You make it sound as if I am the one making these allegations, instead of what I'm saying, that the allegations seem plausible to me, considering the level of evil involved, but that the gannon/goesch connection is too tenuous to prove/disprove that connection.
In one of the earlier threads, I said that a psychic ex-friend told me he saw a large pedophile/exploitation organization that reached up to the white house. I offered that, for what it was worth, as coincidental information. There is also the separate topic of the disappeared documentary on the Bush Sr. connections to child exploitation...which is a separate entry into those allegations, apart from guckert.

you also imply that I "seem to accept now this Guckert creature is not..." Which is a little misleading. I'm saying the evidence of the photos does not seem strong enough to make that true, to me, based on my experience with looking and drawing likenesses of people. I expressed my opinion on that.

also, not sure if "mr" Lerkfish was an attempt to be condescending, but it didn't work, really. Do you grill everyone in these threads for expressing their opinions...or what?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
88. As You Wish, Sir
It seems to me that the short and sweet version of your comments on the facial likeness is that the unfortunate boy from Iowa and this Press Room shill are different people. We would seem to be in agreement there, and there is nothing wrong in agreeing with me, you know.

Believing a person to be the Anti-Christ is a question, of course, of faith, that is really not susceptible to argument. A person who does not credit the existance of any such creature, or hold to any system of belief which postulates one, will of course be utterly unmoved by such a statement. If that is your belief, naturally you will attribute the full range of evil behavior, to the limit of your conception of evil, to a person you believe is that abominable thing. But you will understand, too, that that can hardly suffice to secure the agreement of a person who does not share that basic belief. Such a person would require actual evidence of pedophiliac behavior on the part of a person before being willing to state they engage in such behavior. The only allegations of such behavior by any member of the Bush family in this long discussion arise from claims made in connection with the kidnapping of the unfortunate young Mr. Gosch. These allegation do not impress me as true, but even if they did, if there is no identity between that unfortunate youth and the wretch Guckert, as you seem to accept, then it is hard to see what relevance they could have to discussion of the latter individual.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
106. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
86. Photo blend of Gannon Gosch. This is the one that really got me.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #86
127. Got me, too.
:wow:
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
43. Good lord.
Part 5 ended fast!

Hi Gannon, how's it hanging?! :hi:
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
48. I wish there was a summary of all this. I don't have time to read all.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. Minstrel Boys' blog is a good place
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:19 PM by seemslikeadream
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. thanks
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
69. Anybody has a right to post here, of course, but talking as if
the subject is closed does not make it closed.

The college association, if true, asks as many questions as it answers, and does not prove that or when G/G went to school there.

By all means, let's investigate other angles and report to one another, but let's not close down one discussion for the sake of believing something to be evidence when it clearly is not.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. How Is That Photopgraph Not Evidence, Ma'am?
There seems to be a substantial body of evidence associating Guckert with that school at that time....
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. It is evidence from a 2001 event
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:57 PM by CornField
In 2001, we are already well aware that Gannon/Guckert was the same guy we know now as Gannon/Guckert.

We've yet to see photographs of the person known as Guckert while he was attending WCU, as a high school student, as a teacher, as a member of the military... shall I go on?

It isn't the substantial body of evidence that bugs me. It's the lack thereof.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags Mr. T Magistrate
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 03:16 PM by seemslikeadream


Democracy
It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel
that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.
From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account
of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.
It's coming from the silence
on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered
heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.
From the wells of disappointment
where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here
and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on
O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first,
the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range
and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.
It's here the family's broken
and it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open
in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep
the river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!
It's coming like the tidal flood
beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious,
in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

COHEN
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #83
90. Glad To See We Share Tastes In Music, Ma'am
Are you as familiar with his early works? "The Story of Issac"? "The Master's Song"? He is a wonderful fellow, Mr. Cohen, so much so that it is impossible for me to hold his dabblings in Scientiology against him....
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #90
105. Yes Sir now maybe you will not hold my fashion against me?


wine and bread?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #105
121. We Agree On Many Things, Ma'am
One of my own hobby interests requires occassional use of tin-foil in manners you would never suspect....
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #71
94. What you call evidence today, Sir, you called speculation last night
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fromBrooklyn Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Yes, but
though it's titlating (and I don't mean that patronizingly) to think about Gannon being Gosch (and also sad as hell), the evidence is kind of piling up against the posibility. The ages aren't matching up.

Andy has put out the provocative assertion that Noreen has been advised by her lawyers not to comment, but that's not really a conclusive statement either way, not really.

I think the Gosch Sr. looks like Gannon/Guckert, but what do I know?

We should certainly keep a cynical eye open in the direction of the Gosch connection - but until, it seems, Andy or Noreen feel at liberty to reveal what they know, it does not look like we will have a satisfying answer any time soon. Unfortunately.

And if we pare at the Gosch/Guckerannon theory with Occam's razor...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. I had been thinking
that Noreen's refusal to deny that Guckert is Johhny Gosch was odd, if he was not. But now, I am thinking that because of the arrest of Paul Bishop, her attny may have told her to make no statements whatsoever, as she may possibly be called to testify.

So, her refusal to clarify does not seem so odd to me now.
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fromBrooklyn Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. good point
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 03:01 PM by fromBrooklyn

On Edit: Could she comment "anonymously" through a proxy though (like maybe a proxy named "Andy")?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. I am not an attny,
so I wouldn't know. I suppose we will just have to read between the lines if we can.

However, I think we are coming up with strong evidence that Guckert is not Johnny, if we look at the 2001 fraternity alumni photo, which certainly looks clearly to be Guckert/Gannon. Some of the people at that party would likely have been his classmates, or at least have known him to be Guckert. Guckert is shown on the site to be an alumni donor, a potential webmaster for their site, and a 'big brother' to a younger fraternity member. He is known within the alumni association. On thread #5, someone at the college confirms Guckert's 1980 graduation.

Given all of that, there are still questions about where he was after 1980. Some questions were asked in post #54... I'd be interested in opinions about military and military security clearance.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #79
95. Bishop's case would not be affected if NG
said "yes, he is JG" or "no, he is not JG". It would be much easier to put the matter to rest and stop the speculation and not interfere with the Bishop case if she simply stated "JDG is not my son".

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. If I were Noreen I might not deny ASAP--even if I was sure he's not Johnny
...this gets Johnny's story a lot of attention. All the digging around could lead to something relevent...who knows?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. If it's not Johnny and the stirring up uncover's his real identity and
puts him in danger, would you want that?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. I am just thinking that
her attny might tell her not to say anything at all at this point, if it is possible that she may be called to testify in Bishop's case.

If she says "He is my son", they'd paint her as a complete crackpot, without DNA.

If she says "He is not my son", they will paint her as a complete crackpot for even talking about it. After all, you know "others" read here. If she denies it, the "spin" will be to tie her to the crazy tinfoilers.

It would all turn into a circus, and either way, she'd probably be painted as a nut... some have already tried to do that without being able to back it up at all. I think her attny is probably doing the right thing, by keeping her from making any statement on the matter.

If it IS Johnny (which I personally think is pretty well disproven), we know that she tries to keep his privacy. If she says it IS him, there will be a shitstorm.

As for "putting the speculation to rest", only we here at DU and on a coupla blogs are discussing it... most of the world is unaware that there is any speculation.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. They will try to paint her as a complete crack pot now, given all of
her previous testimony and interviews.

JDG being JG would give credibility to her story and to her.
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
78. Andy, check your PM :-)
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
91. Thoughts/Ponderings:
1) The DM Register editor James Gannon -- it's doubtful that young Johnny, as a carrier, would have had direct contact with the news staff. It would be highly unusual for a news editor to be present when the carriers arrive to pick up their papers for delivery (at large daily papers, a large portion of the news crew works the equivalent of second shift). Johnny Gosch would have been more likely to have had direct contact with a circulation manager.

Could an older Johnny have read about his mom's troubles with newsie Gannon and taken the name out of spite (knowing he was going to tarnish it)?

2) Do you have young children that sometimes fall asleep at the dinner table? Have you ever known them to stay in the dining room chairs after they zonk out?

That's what bothers me about the HST thing -- he placed the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Even when his lifeless body went limp, he managed to remain upright in a dining room chair?

3) Does anyone have a link to that shows the popularity of various surnames in the US? I don't know about anyone else but it seems whenever I did around about anything/anyone I always find someone named EBERLE -- in this case, I've found two. (Bellevue boy who was supposedly a victim of a serial killer and a couple, involved with child and hard-core pornography, who are also experts on child abuse)

So... we've got:

Bobby Eberle - Talon/GOPUSA (Robert Jr. -- his father died when he was a teen)

Bruce Eberle - direct marketer, owner of website began during 2000 election craziness and eventually changed its name and sold (? - no money trail has been discovered) to Bobby Eberle at GOPUSA.

Danny Joe Eberle - 13-year-old paperboy in Bellevue, Nebraska who went missing on 9/18/83. His body was found in a ditch on Sept. 21. He was partially nude, had been tied at the ankles, bitten by a human and stabbed serveral times. His death was later attributed to serial killer John J. Joubert (a military guy stationed at the same Nebraska Airforce base that 1) was used by King and the pedophile ring and 2) became a safe haven for Bush* Jr. on 9/11)

Paul & Shirley Eberle - authors of "The Politics of Child Abuse" (doesn't that title give you the heebie-jeebies?!?) This book accuses mothers, mental health professionals and prosecutors of feeding children stories about sexual abuse. The Eberles have been cited as experts in several sexual abuse trials. The couple actually edits a soft-core magazine in California that contains a mixture of nude photos, celebrity gossip, telephone sex ads and promos for the book.

4) Bob Wadman -- former Omaha Police Chief and a perpetrator of abuse (as per the children), was the Police Chief in Aurora, Illinois when Gary Caradori's private plane crashed. Since it was a private plane, the investigation should have been handled by local officials -- it was turned immediately over to the FBI. A cause was never determined & Caradori's briefcase and the plane's back seats were never recovered.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. The census records may help you with your query.
I believe the last ones released were the 1950. There are also genology sites and family tree forums that might be able to help.

Good luck!

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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. Good thinking! Eberle is 6,322 on the list from 1990
http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/dist.all.last

That means -- 0.002% of the population in the census held this surname.

BTW, this list from the 1990 Census does not have any listing for Guckert.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. How bizarre - he was a prostitute so he probably didn't file
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 04:44 PM by merh
his taxes accurately and now the question arises as to whether or not he properly completed any census info?

The mystery continues ..... :freak:
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. Then something's wrong, because people have found other
guckerts.
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #97
107. SKEPTISM IS A WONDERFUL TRAIT, BUT
THE PICTURES WHICH SHOWED AN AMAZING SIMILARITY BETWEEN GANNON AND GOSCH AND GANNON & GOSCH'S FATHER ARE NOT PRO0F THAT GANNON IS GOSCH. AND A VERY POOR QUALITY PHOTO OF SOMEONE NAMED GUCKERT DOES NOT PROVE THAT THAT PERSON IS THE SAME PERSON AS GANNON. HAVE SOME CONSISTENCY IN YOUR LOGIC, PLEASE! (from someone who teaches logic via geometry)

I THOUGHT THERE WAS VERY LITTLE RESEMBLANCE BETWEEN THE TKE PHOTO AND GANNON. WHY ARE PEOPLE SO QUICK TO BELIEVE THAT THIS GOSCH/GANNON INQUIRE IS DEAD? IT SEEMS TO ME AT LEAST AS PLAUSIBLE THAN GANNON ASSUMED THE IDENTIY OF GLUCKERT
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?
Perhaps you need to re-read my post -- I didn't say a word about the photos.
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. I apologize - I wasn't yelling at you personally.
I had been following this, and all of a sudden there were these statements of agreement that the TKE photo was Gannon, on very little evidence, and hence the discussion was dead. I must have clicked the wrrong post to reply to. Peace!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #116
119. The TKE alumni photo of 2001 appears to be jimmy-jeff!
But that doesn't mean that jimmy-jeff assumed another identity and stepped into the role as favorite alumni and big brother. Actually, if creeps me out to think of jimmy-jeff preying on the young plebs that just want to be part of the fraternal world. :scared:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #116
125. Gannon says he's Guckert.
His AOL profile says he's an alumni of that particular branch of TKE, and his site links to one of theirs, showing that house.

It does not seem to be "on very little evidence". It is based on what HE claims to be true.

Granted, he seems to be a lair. But the photo seems to bear him out.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #107
117. Why are you screaming?
All cap posts are not nice. They are hard to read and give the appearance of yelling at the reader. Please edit to small caps.

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #107
122. Huh?
"A VERY POOR QUALITY PHOTO OF SOMEONE NAMED GUCKERT DOES NOT PROVE THAT THAT PERSON IS THE SAME PERSON AS GANNON"?

Gannon has stated that his "given name", and the name on his driver's license is Guckert.

Gannon's own AOL profile says that he was a member of THAT particular TKE fraternity, and links to it. The fraternity has an alumnus named JD Guckert.

He says he is Guckert. He says he went to that fraternity. Here is the TKE alumni party photo from 4 years ago. Most of us believe the red shirted man is Gannon/Guckert. If you disagree tat is looks like him, that is fair, but no need to YELL on this thread.




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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #97
111. Seems to me if Guckert is an assumed identity...one can not be sure that
age is not also assumed...one can lie about age. Women do it all the time. I strikes me funny there is no personal history prior. His childhood...anything?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #111
120. Excellent point!
So glad you made this point! :thumbsup:

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #120
136. Hiya merh! I also find it intriguing. I'm not aware of any history prior
to college. It's as if the guy never existed before then. peace.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #136
150. I had seen some photos of a j d guckert on a high school golf team
but it was not our boy. Yes, this is intriguing, so many mysteries, so many possibilities!

Hope you are well, it is good to see you amongst the curious! :hi:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #120
154. Merh, has anyone (in reference to the pics) done them with long hair?
Just a thought...
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #154
160. look at post 43 above!
:thumbsup: its an attempt and gives one an idea!
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
115. egads
I go to bed for six hours and then work for eight and there's 300 more posts to read with a part six to boot.

Good job, y'all. This is clearly the most fascinating/interesting topic I've come across in ages. And since the nameless one isn't the center of it (although his father probably is) , it's a relief quite frankly. I'm getting some coffee and food and settling in for the night. And BTW, even though I spent approximately four hours on the first thread looking at the documentary and reading various websites on the Franklin scandal, the one I read last night was pretty much the best summary I've found. http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/gund...

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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #115
123. WOW! this is a big Hmmmmmmm!

:wow: MY GOD! He was at the party with the British PM under his real name or GANNON...this is proof that it was a high up plant. They knew his identity...that he is not the "mild mannered" journalist Jeff Gannon...They associated with him under both identities.


THIS IS THE SMOKING GUN for media plants. manipulation of information. :wow: So now what capacity did Guckert entertain the PM? as Jeff Gannon the Escort? Or Jeff Gannon the reporter, I am sure the PM would really wanted to spend time with a reporter...not. So, this is a big Hmmmmmmm!
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
124. Okay, I have some questions.


In the above pic (kudos to whomever found it), the guy in the red shirt definitely looks like my man Gannon. This pic was taken in 2001 or 2002? If 12 year old Johnny Gosch was kidnapped in 1978, that would make him around 35 in 2001 or 2002. Gannon in that pic looks like he's around 34 or 35 in the above pic. If that is his age, then here in 2005 he would be around 39? So why are some here ending the speculation that Guckert can't be Gosch?

Or do I have all that stuff wrong? Can someone help me out?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. Are the names of the people in the photo
listed somewhere? Or are we just going off of..."He looks like Guckert/Gannon"? Just curious. And your right...he does not look 47.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. My Husband shaves his head to make himself appear older. and it does
When he has his hair he looks considerably younger..ever take that into account? The reason he has shaved his head, to appear to be older?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. There are no names associated with the pictures. But
the fraternity site lists Guckert as being a special donor in 2003, a 'Big brother' to fraternity member in 2003, I believe, and is mentioned in meeting minutes as being too busy to be webmaster... all of which means nothing, except I started looking at alumni party photos, and that one jumped out. He seems to have been active in alumni activities in recent years.

He would not have been 47 at that time, he would have been perhaps 42.

No way for me to swear it is Guckert, only that Guckert was an active alumnus around that time, Bulldog says he's an alumnus, and the picture is (to me) unmistakable.

But, hey, I could be wrong. :shrug:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #124
129. By the Lengths of these threads and that there are 6 of them proves that
the theory is not dead to me, that there is enough evidence to support the speculation that Guckert may well be Gosch. I have not seen anything that would be enough to call the theory a dead end, Sorry.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #129
139. My time here
is not for the purpose of speculation any longer that Guckert is Gosch.

I am skeptical of that scenario, but following along anyway.

But the Gosch story is important and interesting, even if they are not the same person.

And what the fuck has Guckert been doing from 1980 to 2003???? Do people typically enter the military after college? Do you get a "special" placement if you enter with college behind you? Is he out of the military? Did he enter the White House with special military security clearance? When and where was he a teacher (if he was, as he says)? Why did he leave teaching? And more stuff like that!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #124
130. It has seemingly been established by an official at
the college, that JD Guckert graduated in 1980. That pretty well lets out the Gosch scenario.



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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #130
134. Why can't we find a photo of the JD Guckert who graduated in 1980?
Or one that graduated from the Pennsylvania High School in 1975?
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #130
137. Can you give me a link for that?
Thanks.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #137
140. Oh, wow.....
DUer, Kire, was in touch with the college Dem advisor who confirmed JD Guckert as a 1980 graduate.

See these posts #23 & #25

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #140
143. Thanks for that. It's too bad the poster didn't ask the professor
to copy the pic from the yearbook and email or fax it to him.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. A person made a phone call
How is that proof?

We can't beat the media over the head with a phone call!
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georgia10 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #124
170. you guys should read up on dkos
Hey all,

I've been reading these Guckert threads, and you have some interesting discussion.

Just thought I'd pop in and say a few things.

(1) this picture was already discussed, a while ago, on dkos. it is guckert, and yes, he was a member of TKE, and yes, he did say he was "entertaining tony blair."

(2) he was an advisor, so that is why he looks older.

(3) yes, he did get a degree in 1980. we've already verfied this.

Please, look over susang's diaries:

http://www.dailykos.com/user/SusanG

there is A LOT of information covered there that answers most of the questions I have seen.

:)
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
135. 20 year school reunion
I think that it is the guys that change the most after high school and college. Maybe they just finally grow up. (that's a little joke)
Anyway, without the mandatory Name Tag --- some would be a real mystery. Oh, hi.... Jim... how have you been after all this time. (no clue)

Showing up at a 20 year reunion would be rather easy for an impostor to fit right in a start to establish relationships.

If we start in 1980 -- graduation year, Johnny Gosch was 10 and it would be 2 years until he is abducted.
Johnny must have been given a new name from 1982 until 1997 when he escaped (?) or left and went to see his mother.

In 1997 he would have been 27. I remember reading that when he saw his mother he had "long hair". If he was on the run from his past, he would need a new name & identity & a new hair-do. (shaved head)
Maybe some CIA or FBI helped him with the identity.
Connections to somebody high up at West Chester U. and they could create a student who graduated in 1980. (that must have cost a lot)

It is much easier to pass for someone 10 years up or down when you are 30ish than when you are 12.

I think the photo from 2001 in red shirt looks just like him. It looks like he is eating something -- not flattering pic.

I also think he looks like little Johnny Gosch and also like Gosch Sr.

This is how I think both are true.
He assumed this identity after visiting his mom in 1997.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #135
138. Noreen told me she had heard
he had shaved his head after seeing her in 97. She told me this on the phone.
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fromBrooklyn Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. Man, that is such a provocative
statement.

Not to be too pushy, but I have the impression you have a good idea if Gosh/Gannon/Guckert are one and then same.

So, what gives?

If I'm mistaken about this I apologize, but it just seems a little, determined...
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #141
144. I do have a good idea...
and personally...I think Gannon is Guckert is Gosch. That in no way reflects another persons opinion or belief.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #144
149. "Uh-oh" and "hmmmm..." again.
"I do have a good idea" is more than "I think"? (Readin' between the lines again)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. I can't stop you from reading between the lines.
I did quite sometime back...in regards to this whole thing.
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fromBrooklyn Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #144
155. yes -
But your good idea appears to be based in a good bit more fact than anyone elses good idea, for having spoken with Noreen...

That's all on the table.

It's almost secret code, tap once for "no" time... which isn't very grown-up at all.

Well, I'm confident "the truth will out" It always does.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #155
156. Noreen has been advised by her attorney
not to make a statement at this time. I cannot speak for Noreen. Only myself. I and in my personal opinion think it is him. This is based on information in these threads. Photographic evidence and instinct. I may be wrong and will be more than happy to admit it if I am wrong...but I don't think I am.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #156
158. Hi Andi- ready for those enchiladas yet?
BTW- I'm with you.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #138
142. Uh-oh!
This is the sort of thing I meant when I said "we must read between the lines".

And why, though skeptical, I am keeping my mind a tiny bit cracked, I mean open, on the subject.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #138
146. She "had heard". Hmmmm.....
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. Yes and I can't remember if it was Paul or
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 05:26 PM by Andy_Stephenson
Bishop that had told her that. I think it was Bonacci.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #148
151. Ohmygawd!
She has been in touch with Paul Bishop since '97???? Yowza. Can you say in what way? Why?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
147. I keep getting this really strange feeling...I mean why is it that NOBODY
has stepped up, tried to sell a story, or virtually admit that they knew this man when he was a teenager or a young adult? Think about his recent behavior patterns. This guy is NO WALLFLOWER! He's brazen, obnoxious and an in-your-face loudmouth. Yet, NOBODY knew this idiot when he was younger? Think back for a moment. How many of us knew guys (and girls, for that matter) like this 20 or so years ago? Don't we remember something about them because of their "need to be in the spotlight"...and their abrasive, cocky persona? Hell, I can recall of few of those jackasses firsthand! Was this guy just beamed down 20 years ago, or what? This is what troubles me. Where the hell is the history on this jerk?
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #147
153. Tell me about it.
The guy is obviously an ass. Did he become that way or was he always an ass. You would think friends (if he had any) from his past would step up and say "oh yeah, I remember Guckert, he was such an ass!"

Maybe Andy should ask Noreen was her little boy a smartass sometimes.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #153
157. Exactly! So where are they? Didn't he have A JOB? So what we have
is...NO FRIENDS, NO ACQUAINTANCES, NO FELLOW EMPLOYEES OR EMPLOYERS, NO MEMBERS OF A CONGREGATION(church)...NO NADA! WTF?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
164. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #164
167. Kick
:kick:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
166. I thanked the DU admins for unlocking (nt)


TBO;24/7
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #166
168. # 7's been started, Shall we meet there?
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. I started it at 6:33
the same time as the first new post after 6 was unlocked

I'd appreciate your thoughts in the opening post, I am in the anti-Gosch theory camp. Who's with me?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #166
169. I see that we are up and running...
Gannon 7 is going full speed as a new thread! :smoke: See ya there!
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