Madrid stands and the WTC falls (I'm not satisfied - needs explaining)

[clem_c_rock]

http://judicial-inc.biz/Madrid_skyscraper.htm

Folks this doesn't add up. I know everyone will start saying it was because of the planes and the fuel. That's all and good but, please explain WTC 7.


and this needs a little explaining:

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/other_fires.htm
http://www.haifire.com/presentations/Historical_Collaps_Survey.pdf

[benburch]

1. Different construction techniques fail in different ways. nt

[carlvs]

5. You're thinking rationally,

and we all know that isn't allowed in discussions of 9/11... :D

[CrownPrinceBandar]

7. AFAIK, you're right.............

I saw a documentary shortly after 9/11 where they talked to an engineer who had been critical of the "truss" style of construction of the two WTC towers in which the individual floors were attached on the inside to a static central support and the other was attached to a less-secure outer framework. This guy said that he was not surprised that the towers fell as the engineering technique was not designed to take an impact like that.

Sorry, I have no link.

[bpilgrim]

9. it DIDN'T fall, though... that's the ISSUE

CLEAN vs DIRTY collapses...

we had 3 clean collapses that can't be explained by fire alone unless you are saying they engineered the towers to fall in their own foot prints and if you are care to provide a link at the very least?


http://images.globalfreepress.com

tia

peace

[rman]

10. WTC7 failing was unique

Never before has a steel frame building collapsed due to fire. WTC7 collapse is especially odd since it was of extra heavy duty construction, and the fire consisted of a few localized fires.

Your rationale doesn't explain how a building like WTC7 did fail at all, and how the Madrid building did not fail at all.
"Fail in different ways", indeed.

[benburch]

14. WTC7 was significantly damaged by other factors.

Seismic shock from WTC-1 and 2 falling, and high-velocity debris expelled by their collapse which perforated the building are the main ones I can think of.

The character of the debris cloud was almost like a pyroclastic flow form a volcanic eruption.

[bpilgrim]

16. "Seismic shock and debris" caused WTC7 to fall in it's OWN footprint?

even when the owner said he pulled it?

i think its a given that wtc7 was CD'd... but that certainly raises serious questions about the other 2 towers.

unless some PEER REVIEWED expert is willing to explain how they were designed that way, to telescope in on-themselves, it seems reasonable to suspect that they probably we're pulled, too...

:shrug:

peace

[leftofthedial]

2. Very simple explanation

The Spaniard uberconservatives were not in power and had no need of a Pearl Harbor-type event.

[FloridaPat]

4. Bingo.

[itcfish1]

6. One Glich

Two of the Floors in the Building in Madrid belonged to the Defense Department of Spain. I would say they wanted that building to burn.

[mordarlar]

3. More on the 5 Isaelis mentioned in that link....

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

>>>On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attack would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)" <<<

>>>Based on that phone call, police then issued a “Be-on-the-Lookout” alert for a white mini-van heading for the city’s bridges and tunnels from New Jersey. When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious “middle-easterners” were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis!<<<


>>>The police and FBI field agents really became suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (10)<<<

>>>>The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge. Of Course, the Post did not reveal the true ethnicity of the suspects. Here’s what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001:
American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (12)<<<

[bpilgrim]

8. WTC7 fell in it's own FOOTPRINT -----------------------> flash

because the order was given to PULL IT...

http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc7.swf

who gave the order to PULL wtc1 and wtc2 :shrug:


http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[benburch]

13. Billy, you know I like you...

And think you are usually right, however, it is very difficult for a building of any size to collapse any way other than straight down, assuming that there is no horizontal moment such as a wind or an earthquake or very asymmetrical damage. Even where the damage is asymmetrical it is hard to have the bits fall far from true. In the Murrah Federal Building, the debris from the destroyed section largely fell into the foundation.

So, they might have "pulled" it, but I cannot determine that based on the collapse.

[bpilgrim]

15. and i like and respect you very much as well...

however i wan't you to contemplate the two types of collapses all collapses must fall in...

1. CLEAN
2. DIRTY

clean collapses only occur in CD or design.
dirty collapses occur during (un)natural events

those 3 collapses where all clean and that means it must be by design or CD...

now we have one guy on video ADMITTING that wtc7 was CD'ed i'm now very suspicious of wtc1&2 and there isn't any evidence i have seen yet that disproves that theory thus far.

now you know i have been on top of this since 911 and am not the type to post without backup so i think this is something we all need to continue looking at and not dismiss out of hand.

peace bro and thank you for ALL the great work you do :toast:

[Zynx]

11. For towers 1 and 2, they have literally no other way to fall.

The sideways inertia of those massive slab floors is immense. They will not go *anywhere* except straight down once they start to move. This is an inherent function of the truss construction of the Twin Towers.

Consider this: The airliner *impact* didn't move the towers sideways to any significant degree. What's going to possibly make the floors move as the supports give way? About the only thing I can think of is a massive earthquake. Even a nuclear bomb blast probably wouldn't actually move them.

And, people tend to forget this about WTC 1 and 2 -- the outside walls *were* supports. Having a plane blow through them, and blow through most or all of the center core, is pretty much leaving those huge floors above the impact area with very little remaining support. Even a little additional weakening is going to be fatal.

~~~~
There's no available information that allows for any real judgement of what brought down WTC7, though. Given its proximity to the falling towers, and the energy that collapse released, its quite possible WTC7 was more heavily damaged than thought.

The problem with the "it was intentionally demolished" theories are two fold

1. WHY??? The image people have of September 11th is the Twin Towers falling. I will bet the majority of the American people do not even know WTC7 collapsed. Intentionally demolishing it adds nothing except massive risk you might be caught doing it.

2. What scenario does this imply? I haven't seen any LIHOP/MIHOP theory explain how what happened to WTC7 fits into any *plausible* conspiricy theory. You tend to get nonesense about firing missiles into a building right before you hit it with a MUCH bigger impact, or the planes not really being big, or stuff like that.

[bpilgrim]

12. that's only if they meet 0 resistance on the way down

the MASSIVE core was the main support of the buildings and built to hold up 3 to 4 towers.

sounds like you are woefully uninformed on this issue considering some of the basics you have wrong.

wtc7 was pulled
http://shadowgov.info/video_wtc7.html
Larry Silverstein, the controller of the destroyed WTC, is on video saying so.

peace