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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:20 PM
Original message
Ward Churchill's art rocks!
Edited on Sat Feb-26-05 10:42 PM by not systems
I have been looking at Ward Churchill's art being
sold on ebay and have to say that I really like it.

His master filtering of images that have often shown America
Indian people as black and white figures in a lost era are
brought to vibrant life by his skillful colorization of the images.

I think that these images in their black and white artifact mode
allow an easy separation from the real people who were displaced
and exterminated by this nations government and people.

Ward's reinvigoration of these images calls the dead back
from the silence of the grave.

The rewards payed for killing these people who called this
land home were the tax dollars of the citizens of the USA.

This was the blood money that has kept all the descendants of
the little "Eichmann's" of the North America genocide happy, fat
and rich for 150 years.

I believe the function of great art is bridge the speakable
and unspeakable truths of the world.

Ward's art does this and he a great and true American artist.

http://search-desc.ebay.com/ward-churchill_W0QQsofocusZ...

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this story appeared today in Denver Post

(Denver Public Library and eBay.com)
The original drawing by Thomas Mails, top, and professor Ward Churchills disputed piece.



The latest controversy is whether an artwork by Churchill titled "Winter Attack" was copied from a 1972 piece by Thomas Mails, "The Mystic Warriors of the Plains."

Churchill told KCNC-Channel 4 last week that he had permission to use Mails' work in his art. However, Mails has died, and copyright experts say an agreement could be as informal as a telephone conversation.
--snip--
"Is Churchill's work different enough to constitute a different work? The answer to that is, 'No, it doesn't,"' Hubbell said. "It's awfully similar, and probably too similar."

An Aurora art gallery removed the Churchill print from an Internet auction site after its attorney advised the gallery that it might violate copyright laws by selling it.
more:http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2733299,...
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. A perfect example of the skill the Ward brings to the selection...
Edited on Sat Feb-26-05 10:39 PM by not systems
of images.

This is also a great example of the effect of colorization
on an otherwise stark image.

Mails' work is consider a core reference for images of
the American peoples and using it as a source is as natural
as sitting around sharing a good dinner with people who
you love.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. well, I certainly agree that his work is compelling...
Do you believe he has not copied the Mails' work? As I've said repeatedly, I consider the jury out on Churchill. I've not concluded anything at this point. But, this charge, if true would be disturbing to me.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. He obviously sourced it...
Edited on Sat Feb-26-05 10:59 PM by not systems
it is very possible that the wide spread dissemination
of the clearly powerful images he has selected is in both his
interest and that of the artists who's work is sampled
and reinvigorated from it's dusty shelf.

I have read about Mails' who I didn't know anything about
before and want to find out more.

I have found Ward's persecution and repeated symbolic lynching
quite interesting and reading his words about the genocide
funded by the people of the USA and carried out by skilled
extermination technicians in Washington DC illuminating.

I'm not surprised people are grasping at straws like subjective
interpretations of the originality of pop art to bash him.

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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't recall this kind of fuss when Andy Warhol repeatedly
copied the Campbell soup can. Or when old songs are dubbed into new ones. Cry about theft. Make the thiefs give back all the stolen stuff.

Let us give back 18 million lives and the continent.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. They cry it is different and he has no right...
Edited on Sun Feb-27-05 12:31 AM by not systems
visual sampling is all that was done.

For real culture to develop it must be able manipulate
and transmute the images that it has consumed.

Look at white guys singing the blues like Elvis.

Has he stole from the black musicians he covered?

Maybe, but white America crowned him the king of rock.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Where is the justice?
Copyright law is too restrictive. The Corpos will make sure no one gets to see "Eye on the Prize". This is no republic. It is a reprivate.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. kick n/t
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Being handy with MS Photoshop or similar software is certainly a skill -
- but I don't think it makes one an "artist" - especially when you're being handy with another artists original work.

As far as it being done by others, remember George Harrison and "My Sweet Lord"? He ran into big problems with that alteration and I would be the first to say that Harrison's was not intentional.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Correct. What makes one an artist is creating images that evoke a...
response.

It could be one of awe, elation, elevation ect...

Ward's art does this for me and he is a great America artist.

The concept of ownership has nothing to do with the value and
impact of art. It might have meaning in our legalistic society
and it's grafted legal standards.

But true art knows only the value in it's experience.

George Harrison's song was great art regardless of what
legalistic problems it had.

True culture is a conversation based on shared experience
and fencing all creative spaces as private preserves deadens
the life of a people.

I'm sure someone will object that their creative work is
their sole possession and they have a point but some number
of years as envisioned by Jefferson should be enough.

Ward said he had permission to use the images so that is that.



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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. To continue the slander the man about his art being plagiarism when
it is not, look up ART APPROPRIATION, anyone can take images and change them to call it their own form of Art. many artists do this. It is not uncommon. It is a form of RW Character assassination.
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Agreed.
I am certainly not slandering him. I like his art and
have no doubt that it is valid expression.

I assume you are referring to what others are doing, not me.

Of course I have had some art history and theory classes that
the plagiarism lynch mob must have missed.

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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I was one that was duped into thinking this was a form of Plagiarism
They showed the two images, but omitted reporting that this was a different form of Art. perfectly legal.

They either have no idea or it was done on purpose to dupe the public. And that is what I find disgusting, if that is the case. Nothing towards you. really commenting about other threads on the topic.

It was a long process to learn the truth myself, as an artist, the story was of interest to me.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Right on!
Thanks for this post! :)

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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. To be an artist you have to present something as art
just because someone monkies around in photoshop does not make them an artist. WHen they say "here is some art" and they present it to someone - that is what makes them an artist.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't get this at all....camera obscura anyone?
this has been going on for five hundred fricking years or so

who cares how it's done?

just another way to make dissent disappear once and for all

however badly he's put his opinions, just look at voices like Coulter's, and compare the difference in treatment


he's a cause celebre, certain to lose his job, eventually, and she just titters about, calling for the bombing of the NYT building, the death of Muslims, the execution of liberals, the MURDER of reporters by soldiers....stuff like that, and she STILL appears on TV almost weekly, if not more often, depending upon which RW POS propaganda channel one chooses to poison one's mind with
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick n/t
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