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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:15 AM
Original message
Ugly Fact about Carter, Brzezinski and Afghanistan
in Brzezinski's own words.



http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html


According to this 1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, the CIA's intervention in Afghanistan preceded the 1979 Soviet invasion. This decision of the Carter Administration in 1979 to intervene and destabilise Afghanistan is the root cause of Afghanistan's destruction as a nation.

M.C.

The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan

Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser


Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Posted at globalresearch.ca 15 October 2001



Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe Carter saw a parallel to that situation and what ours is now
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It just makes you wonder why Carter, a man of peace,
would have ZB on board. ZB was one of the original neo-cons, from what I remember.
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Carter...
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 12:45 AM by BayCityProgressive
Also interfered in El Salvador and he supported Samoza government in Nicaragua . Even flying his gov. officials out of the country in helicopters with red cross signs on them (a war crime). He aided in the slaughtering of the Sandinistas. Every president since World War 2 could be convicted of war crimes. They have all used the Policy Planning Study No.23 created by Kennen. American Empire, what a wonderful thing.
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Safi Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You just don't get it do you
I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...

The simple fact is, if you look at post-WWII American policy (covert and overt), the only conclusion that can be drawn is this:

America is the biggest sponsor of terrorism, dictatorship and general bloodshed in the entire world. The problem transcends political parties, both Repuke (although more demonstrably culpable) and Democrat have sponsored our foreign policy objectives. Period.

Why? It's called the military-industrial-complex. Forewarned by Eisenhower, this monster dominates nearly everything. Seriously, nearly everything. Carter played along, Clinton played along, Reagan posed while Bush Sr. held/dealt the cards.

Chomsky is hated by the establishment for a reason. Its because he points his finger at the prime factor of evil, which has hence manifested itself as ShrubCo (heh, you would think that the most powerful organ in the history of planet Earth could choose a more able frontispiece).

Blah. The war issue isn't just Republican, its not only Democratic, its in the very nature of the American Hegemony.

Blah.

-Safi
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I will read Chomsky. I will obey.
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 01:24 AM by BurtWorm
I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I will read Chomsky. I will obey. I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...I am not trying to flame or otherwise incite anger or anything...
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DealsGapRider Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. And who says liberals don't love their country?
Has anyone here heard of the Soviet Union?
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. What about it?
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DealsGapRider Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. To say that...
...the US was the single greatest perpetrator of violence in the 20th century while ignoring the agression and monstrous oppression of the Soviet Empire is just laughable.

I acknowledge that the US has some ugly chapter in its history, particularly during the Cold War, but the simple fact is that many, if not most, of those ugly chapters were necessitated by our completely justifiable attempt to stop the spread of communism. Did that mean jumping into bed with anti-Soviet dictators? You bet. Is that unfortunate? Yup. Was it necessary and justifiable in retrospect? You bet your ass. To call the US a terrorist nation is just ignorant.

Let us not forget that prior to the Soviet invasion, Afghanistan was a repressive communist state with a dreaded secret police force, the KHAD. Destabilizing such a government was a perfectly moral exercise and Carter did the right thing.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Carter did the right thing?
Yes, Afghanistan is SO much better off now than it was back in the 1970s before the US goaded the USSR into trying to flatten the country.
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DealsGapRider Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I didn't say that it was handled as well as it should have been.
But it was definitely the right thing to do.

And saying the US goaded the USSR into launching its brutal invasion of Afghanistan is ludicrous. You need a history lesson. The communists came to power in Afghanistan in 1978 and initiated a bloody reign of terror. (But you're probably perfectly comfortable with communist violence...as long as it doesn't emenate from the US, you probably have a hard time recognizing evil.) The Afghans had every right to try to throw off their communist government and we had a responsibility as the leader of the free world to try to help them, which is why Carter arranged for arms shipments to the mujaheddin. And why Reagan and Thatcher continued the policy Carter started. Because it was the right thing to do. Also, the Soviets had no right to invade a sovereign country to prop up a puppet government.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. He gained his experience while in office
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 11:50 AM by blm
but when he started he was prone to manipulation by those with insider foreign policy experience.

Someone who already HAS the depth of knowledge GOING IN will not rely as heavily on just a few voices and can discern the facts more easily themselves using a greater historical perspective as a key tool.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Damn those governors from rural states!
;)
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dudeness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. they created and funded OBL
guess they could reflect on that as a big misjudgment
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. Important stories like this getting buried in the partisan rubble
sigh... Thank you for posting it. Not new but it's high time we Americans started acknowledging the ugly truths of our political system if we ever hope to change things.

I despair...
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sujan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. right on
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'm reading Tariq Ali's "The Clash of Fundamentalisms"
which reminded me of this interview. I cannot recommend a book more highly if you want a basic understanding of what the fuck's going on in Islam and Imperialism, in particular how incestuous the relationship between them is. No one comes off looking very pretty. Except one Welsh Pakistani whose name I forget now who is causing ulcers among the mullahs. His self-published books are best sellers among young Muslims. His message is highly critical of Islam, especially the fundamentalist kind bred in Karachi with CIA "sperm" if you will, the kind that said a big hello to NYC and Washington two years ago today.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'll order it
Scratch that... I'll walk into a book store and pay cash for it!

Thanks for the recommendation...!
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Anwar Shaikh?
The Ali book that you mention is indeed excellent, as is the rest of his work (fictional works especially so). He has a new book about Iraq coming out soon also.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. That's the guy! Thank you!
And yes, this book is excellent. Extremely well-written. Lucid. Thought-provoking. I highly recommend it.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. 'Tis easier to drink cheap beer
and watch NFL or WWF -or NCAR

Our hero's are jocks and rock stars -

Is America is being run by a confiscated crime family not much different than the mafia? The elections aren't even on the
square.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. LOL
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 01:49 AM by BillyBunter
I wish more people understood this about the Carter Administration. The man was smart; he had good judgment, and he was a hawk. He wasn't the soft liberal that people, even many Democrats today, paint him as. Among some of the other things he did, he raised defense spending; the super-leftists call the U.S. military buildup of the late 70s - early 80s the 'Carter-Reagan' military expansion.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Sadly you appear correct
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. EEK! Seeing it in chart format is horrifying! n/t
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Paschall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. The other thing people forget about Carter...
...is that he basically introduced the term "born-again Christian" into the American vocabulary. I think Carter's faith is sincere, but the wall between church and state took some deep hits during his administration. I'd like to believe he naively didn't understand that.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. But what specific policies did the initiate
which damaged the wall between church and state?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. I Agree 100%
Carter became more pacifistic a-f-t-e-r he left office. Don't forget his Secretary of State, Cy Vance resigned after Carter's aborted hostage rescue attempt that torpedoed the negotiations to free them....

Also, I was in Grad School at the time and supporting the mujahadeen in Afghanistan seemed like a prudent thing to do and if it hastened the demise of the Soviet Union so much the better....

Despising Soviet Communism and acknowledging fundamental American flaws are not mutually exclusive...
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. kick

:kick:
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LoneStarLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. Truth Has Many Colors
It is quite correct that our aid to the muj started while Carter was in the White House.

However it is also correct that this was no more than any other garden-variety low intensity involvement we got into by the bushel during the Cold War. It is quite correct that it took a conservative Democrat from Texas (what we today would call a Republican down here), Charlie Wilson, the CIA under the direction of Casey, and the approval of the policy decision making apparatus of the Reagan administration to escalate this involvement from supporting the muj to goad the Soviets into intervening to bankrolling, training, and arming Afghanistan to the teeth.

This is post makes a good point, though; it's always good to have all the information you can at your disposal when you go into rhetorical battle with conservatives.
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