You can't smoke a joint but your Dr. can prescribe a heart attack.

[spanone]

The major Pharmaceutical companies win and the People lose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/18/business/18cnd-drug.html?hp&ex=1108789200&en=8d9ca94bed742803&ei=5059&partner=AOL

<snip> WASHINGTON, Feb. 18 - A federal drug advisory panel unanimously agreed today that the huge-selling painkillers Celebrex, Bextra and Vioxx cause worrisome heart problems, but its members voted to recommend that all three nonetheless be available to patients, accompanied by strong warnings of the risks. <snip>

[bigtree]

1. n/t

:smoke:

[sir_captain]

2. I'm not sure I agree

First, no one is making you take any of the cox-2 drugs, so i'm not sure how the "people lose."

Second, it is clear that the panel's recommendation was based on the idea that the drugs (and Celebrex in particular) can have benefits that outway their risks.

Every drug has plusses and minuses, and it should be incumbent upon the physician and his or her patient to consider the risk-benefit scenario in each specific case.

I don't think I'd particularly like to take them, but if I had crippling arthritic pain, I might make another informed decision.

[bigtree]

7. pot is great for stress and other ailments

I don't agree with any risk factor. I guess it depends on what ails you. We should be able to use this plant as we see fit. It's not an invention or a concoction, it's God's green earth.

[sir_captain]

11. Oh, I wasn't even addressing the pot issue

But really, there's nothing that's without its risks--risk is what life is all about, don't you think?

[spanone]

12. Yes, but the mixing and ingesting of chemicals is different.

I don't want to take a drug because the company that makes it has the largest advertising campaign therefore they can influence my doctor to prescribe it. Nowadays they advertise a drug and ask THE PATIENT to ask their doctor about it...totally bassackwards.

[sir_captain]

13. No, of course not

I surely agree with you about the advertising--in my mind, I'd like to see it banned.

That said, a good doc is not going to prescribe you Vioxx because of an advertising campaign. And you are under no compunction to take it, either.

[spanone]

14. You sure have a lot of faith in the medical community. Good luck.

[sir_captain]

17. Perhaps it's because I'm part of it...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

28. Are you a doctor?

On the radio just now, they said that most of doctor's info on the drug comes from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. Is that true?

[sir_captain]

31. On the way...

And I wish. Then I wouldn't have to take that pesky pharmacology class! ;-)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

32. Well best of luck! And congrats on the profession

:D

How old are you? How long do you have left?

[sir_captain]

34. Thanks!

I'm in my mid-twenties, but still have a few years to go...got a bit of a late start. ;-)

[knitter4democracy]

37. Hi!

Do your residency here in Kalamazoo, Michigan--best one we could find. My husband was pretty happy there and got a really good education. Now, he's an internist in Battle Creek and loves it.

Remember: the med school is trying to kill you. If you live, you get MD after your name, and if you don't, they don't really care. ;) That's always been my theory, anyway . . . I can't believe my husband survived . . .

[spanone]

29. So is my family.

My father was a phamaceutical salesman and my mother was an RN. I worked thru school in hospital storerooms and drove a transportation ambulance for a while.

[Individualist]

15. Think again

A board certified rheumatologist I go to prescribed Vioxx when I had an eight year history of coronary atherosclerosis! This was after studies had been done showing that the drug should not be given to people who have a high risk for heart attack. I refused to take it.

[spanone]

16. His wife was probably a cardiologist.

[sir_captain]

18. Right

well, board-certified does not = good

[Individualist]

19. As a retired medical secretary

with years of experience working in hospitals, I'm well aware of that.

[sir_captain]

21. Let me refer you to my earlier statement

"a good doc is not going to prescribe you Vioxx because of an advertising campaign."

The key word there was *good*

[Individualist]

23. Are you aware of how many good docs

are influenced more by pharmaceutical companies than by responsible medical practice? I certainly am!

[sir_captain]

26. A completely unprovable assertion

Maybe I just know better docs than you do.

In any case, anecdotal evidence won't get either of us anywhere.

[spanone]

24. Not all docs are good and there are billions in advertising.

Your statement is therefore correct, so is mine.

[sir_captain]

25. Agreed

[spanone]

20. MD does not = good.

[sir_captain]

22. Of course not

did someone suggest that?

On the other hand MD does not = bad either, despite the implications of many DUers :-)

[skylarmae]

3. think we'll ever be able to legally smoke joints?

As a bextra user, kinda would be nice to have a fat one right about now to counter the worry over having a heart attack!

[spanone]

5. No, if you could grow vioxx in your backyard it would be illegal.

[whistle]

4. Perhaps if marijuana was a far more dangerous drug it might

...become totally legal as a prescription. Pot advocates might try changing their defense strategy for using dope!

[jody]

10. If it were dangerous AND pharmaceutical companies could make a profit. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

6. All drugs have risks.

Everything. Even taking something like Vitamin E or St. John's Wort over the counter can possibly cause problems. Of course, my husband wishes he could prescribe marijuana sometimes to patients who can't take much else and need something . . .

[spanone]

8. Remeber, Merck withdrew Vioxx THEMSELVES.

Merck website: Merck & Co., Inc. announced a voluntary withdrawal of Vioxx (rofecoxib) from the U.S. and worldwide market due to safety concerns of an increased risk of cardiovascular events (including heart attack and stroke) in patients on Vioxx. Vioxx is a prescription COX-2 selective, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) that was approved by FDA in May 1999 for the relief of the signs and symptoms of osteoarthritis, for the management of acute pain in adults, and for the treatment of menstrual symptoms. Vioxx was later approved for the relief of the signs and symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis in adults and children.

[knitter4democracy]

36. Oh, I know.

My husband had to do some quick thinking and massive research to figure out what to put his patients on instead. He already knew of the cardio risks (they hadn't kept them too secret, if you don't listen to the drug reps and do your own research), so he'd been pretty careful on the risk assesment. His biggest issue is that he doesn't like his patients to suffer. If they seemed fine, cardio-wise, then he felt the pain relief benefit outweighed the cardio risks. That's his job as an internist.

Now, he's not really sure what to use. Aspirin has too high a risk for some patients, other OTC painkillers don't work anymore after years of use, and the other COX-2s have similar risks. He's doing what he can to help his patients, but it's a real dilemma.

[oneighty]

9. Maybe it will kill me maybe it will not kill me.

Like Russian roulette.

Well it did not kill me that time.

A desperate choice indeed.

180

[kohodog]

27. Hey, I can smoke a joint, if I want...

But my Doctor can't prescribe it if I need it. He can, however, prescribe lots of shit that have disclaimers longer than War and Peace.

[raysr]

30. Methadone

If you have constant from arthritis try methadone.

[Sgent]

35. Methadone

Is being used more and more for chronic pain; however, its not an answer for moderate arthritis pain.

The Cox-IIs are a good drug, just a drug class that was overmarketed and not understood.

Most drugs have side effects, and many of them are worse than that of Vioxx. Of course given the alternative, Vioxx should not be a first line pain killer -- that doesn't mean it isn't a good option in some cases.

As for marijuana, I agree, it should be reclassed to II or III -- like cocaine, so it can be perscribed by a physician. However, they are two separate issues.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[paineinthearse]

38. From Desolation Row

Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene
Is brought down from the castles
By insurance men who go
Check to see that nobody is escaping
To Desolation Row