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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 01:15 PM
Original message
What's the difference between a Rockefeller Republican and ...
... a "socially liberal, fiscal conservative?"

Do the socially liberal, fiscally conservative people just call themselves that to avoid the stigma of being a Rockefeller Republican? Is there any meaningful difference?

I consider myself to be a moderate swing voter, since I have not always voted a straight Democratic ticket. On many issues, I'm right-of center, on others, left-of-center. I don't have any specific ideology, like libertarianism, or capitalism/communism.

But while everyone on DU is pretty socially liberal, we have a lot of economic right-wingers that sound more like Republicans than Democrats. Is there any substantial difference?

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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. a Rockefeller Republican
was sometimes more liberal overall than some Democrats. For instance Jacob Javitz was Rockefeller Republican and he was pretty liberal. So too was Jim Jeffords. By the way, Rockefeller was not a fiscal conservative either. NY had huge spending programs and deficits under his watch which is why the right wing of his party despised him.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. what do you mean by liberal?
Socially liberal, of course. Economically liberal? I thought the Rockefeller Republican "good for business, good for America" attitude is the opposite of progressive liberalism.
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MiddleRiverRefugee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. My definition of a 'fiscal conservative'.
Someone who is paying off one or more huge student loans and one too many credit cards on top of that.

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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Part of the problem
Edited on Wed Sep-10-03 01:29 PM by library_max
is that "fiscally conservative" means different things to different people. There's the issue of fiscal responsibility - do we generate enough tax revenues to pay for the government's expenditures? The Republicans, to whom "tax" is a four-letter word (which also gives you an idea how well their math skills work), have been wildly irresponsible in fiscal matters, at least on the federal level. On this issue, mainstream Democrats, including Presidents Clinton and Gore, have been far more "conservative" than the Republicans in power, and I think most DUers are critical of the Bush administration's "borrow and spend" policies, particularly the near-criminal trillion-dollar tax cut.

On the other hand, by "fiscally conservative," some people mean the kind of knee-jerk stinginess that is personified by the saying, "You can't solve problems by throwing money at them." Logically, this denies government the ability to do anything about anything (security, education, the environment, infrastructure, crime, health care, etc.) beyond preaching from the "bully pulpit" and general hand-wringing. In practice, Republicans have no trouble spending buckets of money on the military, the "war on drugs," and any other government program that is essentially punitive, but not on programs that help people like education and health. Using this definition, I don't think I've encountered many "fiscally conservative" DUers, but then I've not been in the forums for very long and haven't followed every string.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. what about deregulation and privatization?
Sure, everyone wants to maintain balanced budgets, at least over the long term, but so many people who call themselves "fiscally conservative" also want to deregulate corporations and privatize public assets. Is that part of the definition as well?
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Sorry, you're right
That'd be a third definition, the deregulation/privatization crowd. Here again, I would think that few DUers are on board, but again I'm not the world's foremost authority on DU members.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rockefeller Republicans...
Were driven out of the party by the Dixiecrat invasion. They either dropped out of the party or pandered to the Dixiecrats.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. good point
I think you are saying when the Dixiecrats left the Democratic party and joined the GOP, they muscled out the Rockefeller Republicans? It seems they came to the Democrats and became Rockefeller Democrats - same economic platform at least.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. They either became Dems or
Sold out thier principles.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Labels Are For Mayonaise
...everybody considers themselves free thinkers, but assumes that everybody else goes party line. I call those people, "people".


how's that for a sweeping generalization?
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. "There's no difference"
.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. fiscally conservative does not always mean right wing
in fact today it rarely does. the illegitimate squatter in the White House now is nothing remotely resembling a fiscal conservative, and very few in the GOP are. McCain and Ron Paul are two of the few left.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Republicans are into the corporate whoring thing.
Fiscally conservative Democrats usually are not, though it naturally depends on the campaign contributions.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. nope, none at all
and this group represents most of American voters (you're as normal as can be). They are 'the silent majority', 'the swing vote' or any of a number of other monikers given them. They are the people who split almost evenly depending on the race and slightly favor one over the other providing the winner.

Candidate too far left, they lean right and visa versa. A few exceptions like Reagan's landslide but the principle holds.

So, who are you liking these days ? I'll guaran-damn-tee you that every pol wants to know this so just speak into the microphone slow and clear !
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. They are *not* the majority by a long shot
The majority of Americans hold progressive economic viewpoints, according to poll after poll for years. Most Americans support universal health care, progressive taxes, Social Security, Medicare, the right to organize, worker safety laws, fair trade laws, and all the rest.

Perhaps the majority of rich people and upper middle class whites have right-wing economic views, but most Americans do not.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. wasn't the point that these groups were socially liberal and fiscally cons
you don't state anything to dispute this. Basically it boils down to people being as socially liberal as they feel they can afford to be.

Joe Average would like everyone to have medical coverage but if he sees the price tag he could well balk. Ditto other issues.

Like I said, too liberal and the pricetag drives enough to the right (Reagan, Bush). Too heartless, back to the left (Carter, Clinton).
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. I believe a Rockefeller Republican
was pretty much hunted to extinction by Ronald Reagan.
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