This is WAR. It is war for the future of this nation -- for the very existence of this nation.
I've seen these creeps do everything in their power to alienate liberals (turning this into a very bad name to call someone). I've watched them hunt down Clinton (I can't even get through that movie -- The hunting of the President).
Basically they don't give a damn what we think.
So I join you in the new battle cry.
Screw Republicans. Screw "reaching out" to Republicans."
12. I say we've seen President Bush reach out before
I am not a big fan of the "Screw REpublican movement" but to suggest that President Bush was reaching out to us at the State of the Union is to fundamentally misunderstand the lay of the land. President Bush has no interest in comporomising with progressives or liberals (which would push his policies left ward). That is simply a rhetorical gambit designed to make Democrats look bad when they oppose his Social Security Phase out plan.
"Personal retirement accounts would be invested in a mix of conservative bond and stock funds. Workers would be permitted to allocate their personal retirement account contributions among a small number of very broadly diversified index funds patterned after the current TSP funds."
SSI was not set to make you money or be a retirement fund. It was supposed to be a "rainy day" fund set aside, in addition to personal savings and company pensions that would make for a comfortable retirement (originally at 55 not 65).
The personal savings have gone to hell as this regime and its corporate masters have created a credit card debtors society that has millions locked into 15% revolving debt that make savings almost impossible...and has force many two-parent families to have to find the 2 or 3 or more jobs to make ends meet (as your hero said "isn't that a good thing..." to a lady who has to work 3 jobs just to feed her family). So without savings, what next?
Oh, the pensions? Yep, tell all those folks who have seen 20, 30, 40 years of work vanish by corporate corruption and mismangement that speculated those pensions on companies like Enron & Worldcom...or just went bust and now is protected by this regime from ever having to account for what happened to those pension funds and who was responsible. If you're lucky, you had a good 401k or other plan that grew enough that the drop in it's portfolio value over the past 4 years hasn't killed you. Go to your nearby GOOP Wal-Mart and see the number of retirees who are "Greeters"; working for minimum wage with almost no benefit...when they should have had that money already in their earned and deserved pensions. Care for your party to investigate?
Lastly, SSI is a supplement...and was the last line of defense...that money one hopes you wouldn't need or would cover shortfalls and emergencies. Supplemental! Sadly too many people thought SSI was the entire enchillada. Shame on both parties for perpetuating that sham and now we have a lot of poor and middle class elderly and an even bigger group reaching 65 every day that are totally dependent on this system.
SSI needs to be re-inforced, not gutted. It'd be good to re-examine the formula used for what is done with the money in the SSI trust fund, but the money is gone...raided by your regime.
Reaching out? Yeah right. The Repugnican party has been coverted and compromised by the right wing and corporates who believe they keep their power by dividing, not reaching across.
Now, name me ONE thing in his first four years, your lord and savior, George W. Bunnypants did to reach across to Democrats? No Child Left Behind? I'd love to debate you on that...as would a ton of other, more knowledgeable DU'ers.
...hope you haven't been tombstoned by now...I think we need more of your type around here...good therapy and reinforces my values.
Edited on Wed Feb-16-05 03:22 PM by FreedomAngel82
have spelling bee's and contest's in schools? I remember when I was in elementary school we had one. We all stud up in line in class and we'd all spell until we got one wrong. The winner then would represent the class in a spelling bee at the school. I wonder if they still have them in elementary school. :shrug: Does anybody know? Next time I see my younger cousin's I'll have to ask them if I remember. (If you're wondering I went to school throughout Clinton's years).
8. I've never understood the whole "reaching out" thing
Edited on Wed Feb-16-05 10:51 AM by Bouncy Ball
IT LEGITIMIZES THEIR POSITIONS!
Their positions are NOT legitimate!! They're just EVIL. They are corrupt, they are wrong, they are IMMORAL (yeah, I said it, but starting a preventative war and not fighting poverty is IMMORAL in my mind).
I'm not going to reach out to repukes anymore than I would have reached out to Mussollini.
It just gives them the (wrong) idea that they are right. They AREN'T.
And they don't play fair to begin with. No, you don't reach out to people like that. You FIGHT THEM.
Should we reach out to the leadership of the Conservative / Republican party? While there may come a day when that is a godo strategy and it has been a good strategy in the past on occasion (civil rights legislation for example was passed with the help of both parties), right now extending the hand of friendship to people who believe of traitors and who clearly hate us is asking for that hand to be chopped off.
But then there are Republicans all around us. I work with several--you do too. What should be done about those people? Should we maintain a constant stance of belligerence towards all Republicans? Or should we try to convince them of the errors of their ways? I'm not sure this is a question that can be answered except on a case by case basis. I certainly don't think constant belligerence is going to benefit our cause, but there certainly are republicans with which there is no point to discussion.
It involves being somewhat accomodating and letting the majority leaders know they can count on you for some votes when needed (for a price). That is what the Republicans did during all of their years in the congressional wilderness. You get to have input to legislation that the majority wants and they don't have to "herd cats" to keep their party together on every vote. The Republicans in the House and Senate got an awful lot of things going their way during the 1955-1995 era of Democratic dominance by using these tactics.
Nor can you compare them to the Democrats of that time period. This is a party that wants to crush Democrats--we might be able to work with a (very) few individuals, but as a whole, this sort of plan just doesn't seem like it would work to me.
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Reasonable people can disagree, apparently unreasonable ones can too. The problem with your logic is that WE LOST. Now, to win in the future, we need to get some of the people who voted for Bush to vote for our candidate. Therefore, we would have to reach out. Simple concept, isn't it? Thinking that all Bush voters are "CULT members" is absurd, unless you consider 51% of the populace to be cultists, which you admit that you cannot "convert". Therefore, your position would cause us to continue to lose elections.
I know a number of them. For a lot of people, voting was for one candidate or the other, it was AGAINST one candidate or the other. Many of the folks who voted for Senator Kerry were really voting AGAINST President Bush. Similarly, many who voted for President Bush were really voting AGAINST Senator Kerry. The reality is that, to many people, we did not present an attractive candidate. For that matter, neither did the Republicans. That is why I feel that I can (and do) try to "convert" some to our side. If I were to hate them, I'd never be able to change them. We have to start somewhere, and that is the bottom. We need to start with Joe America, or in my case, Joe Ohio.
Edited on Wed Feb-16-05 03:39 PM by FreedomAngel82
on the person and how far "gone" they are. If they are past reachable and where you can't talk in a civil conversation with them about issues and where they just spew out RNC talking points then those people you surely can't reach. For someone who is so far gone it will take either them learning the truth on their own, something effect them personally or a "shock and awe" effect from BushCo on all of us.
44. It's not Repukes we need to fight. It's dumbass Dark Ages thinking.
It just so happens that the majority of backwards-ass, Dark Ages, fundie fascist, thinking tends to spring from individuals in this political party. There are plenty of other voters who have similar faults in intelligence and thinking that need to be combated, as well.
morally bankrupt, intellectually dishonest, mentally deficient, emotionally repressed, and willfully deluded, or some combination of the above.
My retired freeper dad voted for Bush* 'cause he thought (and said this out loud) that Kerry was gonna take away his guns. I don't remember the last time that he's actually gone to the range. Now, he's crying about how his health coverage keeps going up. One of my freeper drinking buddies said that he didn't trust Kerry. Kerry is a confirmed veteran and he voted for a deserter. I wonder how he'll feel when there's no scholarship money for his kids (10-yr-old twins) to go to college. What if they enlist and go to the war he helped continue?
Even following freeper logic, no freeper could vote for Bush*, but they do it in droves. I agree, these people are beyond reason. They have to change on their own.
68. I agree with you!! Shout it from the rooftops!
It seems to me that the party in power should be responsible for "reaching out!" They are the ones who will stonewalled if they refuse to at least accept some of our conversations. Any attempt to reach out to the 'Thugs has not boded well for our party. They say one thing, once they have us, they screw us over! They have no honor and should be treated as such!
72. I seriously don't get WHY the Joe Sixpacks of this earth actually think
this outdated and backwards party "reaches out" or "speaks" to them?
You aren't rich. They are and will do everything in their power to KEEP it that way. You don't want your civil rights repressed. They're in favor of taking away many civil rights of many innocent people. You don't want your kids to be drafted. Sure as hell wondering where they're going to get all of these men and women to fight the wars they got planned. Sure as hell isn't going to be from our allies who think * is a tool. You want fiscal responsibility. This runaway drunk spendthrift is bankrupting generations with his stupidity. You aren't in favor of your job getting shipped overseas because flimsy economic theory dictates it as a positive. This party is, because it favors the RICH EXECUTIVES, which any sub-moron can see.
I could go on, but damn, how many completely obvious things do we have to point out to these morans? I think not reaching out to them is a great idea, simply because they're freaking hopeless.
I should pin this chart to my freeper neighbor's doors. And there are several on this street. Of course, the one is catholic and guess which two issues drove HIS family's vote? Here's a clue: neither have ANYthing to do with running a country.
Seriously, there's NO talking to these hopeless dopes.
76. Gee, sorry I'm not being a "bridge builder" . . .
but I'm not about to reach out to people who fully support an administration that's sending my friend to Vietraq for seven months, all because of oil interests. These people adamantly chose who they wanted to destroy this country, and it's my choice to give them zero respect for doing so.
There'll never be a point where hatred will come into play, but if anything happens to him, I will have completely washed my hands of trying to reach out . . . ever.
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