Re: Howard Dean (NOT FLAME BAIT)

[tk2kewl]

What is Nick Anderson getting at here? Why do some people think Dean will be a disaster as DNC Chair? I think he will be great!

[KurtNYC]

1. If Howard Dean was REALLY a bad idea then the MSM

and Novak would be clearing a path for him. Do they really think we can't see through their phony compassion? Suddenly RW dickheads are so "concerned about the DNC" ?! Ha.

[Deep13]

2. N.E. liberals

The writer is getting at the fact that H.D. is a liberal from New England and that we have not done so well with them as our national spokesmen in the past. The concern is that he will alienate moderates and Ds from other parts of the country. Plus many see him as a bit of a loose cannon.

While I think these may be exagerations, they are still legitimate concerns (except that he is not really a loose cannon.) HD's greatest asset is that he recognizes that these party insiders are the cause of many of our problems and will not be afraid to butcher sacred cows inside the party to cure it. This whole issue of leading the DNC is not a question of left vs. center. It is far more basic than that. It is a question of who can make the most people in most of the country comfortable with D leadership. As it is, much of the country sees us as a bunch of screw-ball exhippies. Frankly, I am supporting Fowler, though either man would be an improvement.

[NYCGirl]

4. Fowler dropped out of the race late on Friday.

http://www.nationalledger.com/scribe/archives/2005/02/donnie_fowler_q.shtml

[Deep13]

6. Guess it's Dean, then.

[Cleita]

5. Howard Dean is not a liberal.

The Republicans who are Trojan horses in the Democratic Party don't want a true Democrat as chair because that would be bad for their god king George.

[Deep13]

7. paranoid

"The Republicans who are Trojan horses in the Democratic Party don't want a true Democrat as chair because that would be bad for their god king George."

That is the kind of devisive rhetoric we cannot afford. Moderates in the Democratic Party have as much right to their views as you do. Frankly, it is that kind of thinking that has caused many people outside of the North East to suppose that they have more in common with the Rs than with the ivory tower holier-than-thou Ds.

[Cleita]

8. "We" indeed! Take your RW views somewhere else.

Newsflash! Howard Dean is a moderate and apparently he will be the chair. Last I heard all opposition has dropped out. I am ecstatic.

[paulk]

10. then who are these "trojan horse Democrats"

you are referring to?

And since when is calling for party unity a "right wing view"?

[asthmaticeog]

11. Calling for party unity

under the aegis of the DLC is a right wing view.

[Deep13]

22. Dr. Dean is quite promising, but...

... some of his followers need a lesson in reality. I am optimistic about Dean since he will bring a fresh perspective, but ecstatic would be an overstatement for me. Anytime there is a cult following around a particular personality it is a receipe for danger.

It is amazing to me the people still insist that DLC members and other D. moderates are somehow R-lite or not true Democrats. What is more, these voices are not coming from inexperience as one might expect. Rather, they seem to be old folks who still see things the way we did in the beginning of the 1970s. I went to a D. planning meeting last Saturday where a 75 year old woman attempted to monopolize the conversation. Her view was that if people do not agree with us, they need to be educated. In other words, we need to teach the people why they are wrong and we are right. It is no wonder people think we are arrogant. People like that are part of the problem. Rather than educating the people, we need to let them educate us. This is especially true on devisive social issues like gay rights, abortion and gun control. Sure, I agree with gay marriage, reproductive freedom and reasonable gun regulation. We can all sit around and demonstrate through logic and evidence why they are the correct views. Nevertheless, people are not logical when it comes to cultural issues and condescending to them will not make them so.

A lot of these ivy league consultants have no idea what the average American is like outside of the urban North East. After talking to rational, well educated people on the computer, I leave my house and step into rural/suburban Ohio. It is like walking onto the set of Deliverance. Seriously, the average person around here has more in common with the charaters on South Park than they do with the D establishment at the Capitol. Most of the Ds around here go to church, oppose late abortions, oppose gay marriage, own a gun, believe the local newsmedia and support capital punishment. THESE people decide who will be president and who will control Congress. THESE are the folks that we cannot afford to alienate.

We need to stop demonizing ordinary people who want a reason to join our side. The strategy of preaching from the left has been steadily costing us influence since 1968. Now we are just plain shut out. I basically support the feminist and gay adgenda, but I am sick of sacrificing opportunity on those altars. Compromising on a few social issues will allow us to remove barriers to support in Middle America and put us back in the driver's seat. How long must we wait for national health care, a sane foreign policy, adequate education and a government that respects the Earth? How much more can this world take before we wake up?

Ultimately, this is not about ideology, but numbers and we don't have them. If the so-called true liberals want to take their ball and go home, the simple fact is that we can afford that loss far better than the loss of the average voter.

[dansolo]

12. The problem has been *WEAK* N.E. liberals

Don't forget that FDR was a N.E. liberal. But he had the strength of his convictions, and he appealed directly to the people.

[Deep13]

20. We had the South then.

We don't now. Further, many of the devisive social issues that have characterized the last 30 years of electoral history were unknown then.

[democrank]

14. Deep 13..........

shouldn`t you look into Howard Dean`s record before you repeat this "liberal from New England" baloney? It sounds exactly like Robert Novak or the famous 2004 DLC memo.

Dean was my Governor for many years. He`s a deficit hawk and enjoys a high approval rating from the NRA, hardly standard liberalism. Dean really doesn`t fit into any political pigeon hole. That`s one thing I like about him. If he assumes leadership of the DNC, he`ll spin some Washington heads right off their foundations. I can`t wait.

What troubles Novak and the DLC "leadership" is the fact that Dean can`t be bought. He says what he means and he means what he says.... and he has real respect for grassroots efforts. The guy has guts, something sorely lacking in our party`s leadership.

[Deep13]

21. perception

You will have a hard time convincing anyone outside of this forum that a governor who signed gay civil unions into law and was the only viable candidate to oppose the Iraq war is a moderate. You may also have a hard time convincing anyone that someone from Vermont knows a moderate when he or she sees one. You may be right. His actual policies as governor may have been pretty conventional. In 1988 we tried to convince people the same was true for Dukakis. Look how that ended up. What matters in electoral politics is not the reality of the situation, but how marketing portrays that reality. By the way, I have the same problem. Moving to OH from MA was quite a culture shock. The last Bay State election I worked in was the gubernatorial of 1990. We had the R., William Weld vs. the D. John Silber. The abortion debate came down to no restrictions and no public financing for the R position or late term restrictions but public financing for poor women for the D. position. In OH, "pro-choice" means that one does not necessarily oppose ALL abortions.

[progressoid]

3. Who the hell is Nick Anderson??

Looks like a superficial, knee-jerk response. I don't think he can see past what the "all-knowing" pundits on the tube say.

[BigBearJohn]

9. I dont care what anyone says, I love Dean; he is a real shot in the arm

[WI_DEM]

13. not everybody is going to support him, and so what does it matter?

and really that is just his opinion.

[prairierose]

15. I think it really has to do with...

the DLC not wanting Dean to get corporate money out of the party. Dean has said that we should focus fund raising at the grassroots and organizing efforts at the grassroots level. This takes power away from the corporate whores in the DLC. he also wants to move back to the populist moderate views of many dems at the grassroots level, again this takes power for determining policy away from the DLC.
Dean wants to listen to the grassroots.

[Cha]

16. And "grassroots" ..for some reason is an

anathema to the from/reed types.

[prairierose]

17. Do you mean Al From & which reed?

I don't think they like the grassroots. I have seen the state party here losing power and shrinking partly because the DNC (under the DLC) now ignores state parties more than they support them. Does that answer the question?

[Cha]

18. bruce reed and yeah.. you

got it!

[prairierose]

19. OK, good, I worry sometimes when ...

communicating only be text that I am not really communicating what I am trying to say. :shrug: Was that convoluted or what?