Boy,do we live in one sick fricking country. I tell you I can't believe it

[NNN0LHI]

Dead and dismembered Iraqis. No fucking problem.

Dead and dismembered American soldiers. No fucking problem.

We need some more of your money. SAY WHAT?!?!? No way man! Are you crazy or something?

Don

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. a pound of flesh vs. a pound of gold

People aren't going to church and if they are they sure aren't listening to what's preached. Of course the parents of some of these maimed G.I's probably have a much more clear perspective.

[TNOE]

8. Got to disagree with you on this one

New Yorker - People ARE going to church - people like my parents whose minister told them that going to war with Iraq was the right thing to do. They are old and I feel sorry for them for being so duped. They live in Naples in the winter months and we e-mailed about the war ALOT - me against it, them for it. My mother would send me tapes of the minister's sermon quoting Bible scripture on the "need for war". We agreed to disagree. They are back in Cincinnati now for the Summer months - and they are so sad and stressed out about it - because the Church said war was the way to go - but it doesn't look like that was the right thing to do anymore. Now - they won't discuss it and they get too nervous if I bring it up. I feel sorry for all the people that the church's misled - all for "their faithful servant Bush".

[ignatius]

23. A so-called Christian Church in ny town, a suburb

of Indianapolis,has a large advertising sign with Sunday's sermon topic on it. This weeks read, "Islam, the nimber one enemy of America."

My stomach turned when I saw that sign. I feel with all the problems in the world right now, a church should be a place of santuary and solace, not a place of hate mongering.

[ixion]

2. I agree, Don...

it never ceases to amaze and sadden me. The pocketbook seems to be the only thing the average American gives a hoot about. Civillian Deaths? Not a problem. Abject Poverty? Not a problem. Spending money to implement the aforementioned? Now there's a problem. *sigh*

:-(

[TeeYiYi]

3. Thank God SOMETHING will make them stop and think. ....n/t

TYY

[glarius]

4. Not only that...the countries that were AGAINST the war are expected to

fall dutifully in line now and supply their soldiers for target practice over there too...not to mention help pay for the cost of the mess....I mean these guys (and the American media, too) just take it for granted that we are obliged to join in now.....disgusting! pathetic!

[Kolesar]

5. don't just bitch, write an LTE, like me

At this time when we are still anxious that there may be another attack like September 11, 2001, it is important to remind Americans that there never was any evidence that those who attacked us had any connection with Saddam Hussein or the former Iraqi government. We have spent billions of dollars and ended thousands of lives in a continuing war in Iraq that is actually a distraction from dismantling the Saudi-based terror network that attacked us. When the President tells you that the victory in Iraq was an important goal in the war on terror he is lying.
========
I sent that one to the Plain Dealer a few minutes ago. Now it's your turn.

[gandalf]

12. But will they print your LTE?

I once sent one when Asa Hutchinson claimed with the new passport laws the hijackers would have been arrested. They printed it, and I got a response from the editor within hours.

But, last weekend, there was an article, a polemic, bashing "conspiracy theories", without any serious argument. I wrote a really careful letter, and I got nothing, not even an automated response.

[Kolesar]

17. I can only hope it will be published, it is topical

If I did not write a letter, then I would be sure that nothing would be published.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. I have growing doubts as to who was involved in the 9/11 attacks...

...and after reading the article linked below, those doubts have grown stronger:

OPERATION NORTHWOODS
Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba
<http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/>

At the heart of my concerns is the 20-30 minute delay in sending up planes to intercept the airliners. That is in direct violation of FAA/NORAD policy when it comes to intercepting unidentified planes. Not only was there a delay, but the selected planes were flown out of bases near Boston, MA, and Hampton, VA, locations about as geographically distant as you can get from New York and Washington, DC and still be in the same region. Additionally, as far as anyone knows, only four planes were ordered into the air.

Flight 93 also has my wheels turning. Eyewitnesses state that the plane flew over them at a low altitude with flames coming from the fuselage. There was also an eight mile trail of debris along Flight 93's flight-path to the impact zone. One of the pieces of debris was an engine, located about 2000 yards from the impact.

Additionally, it has been reported that Bush ordered that morning the shooting down of any airliner that appeared to be hijacked.

Lots of interesting information about Flight 93 can be found at this site:

<http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=282>

[leftchick]

6. agreed...... the callers on c-span this am were amazing

the first time ever I heard so many in agreement, "Don't touch my pocketbook!".... appaling when you think of all of the thousands of lives lost.

[M155Y_A1CH]

13. Don't underestimate

We should be saying tens of thousands of lives.

[prolesunited]

7. Well, at least we have

our priorities straight. :eyes:

I agree with you whole-heartedly, Don. It is so sad that we have reached the point that money is more sacred than human life.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. Not entirely true

Death (or loss of life) just needs to have a face put on it. Where these deaths have hit closer to home, you'll have an entirely different opinion from these very same people. Of course, this all just goes to show how preoccupied people are with money nowadays and how it "IS the economy stupid". Yeah, the war was a bad idea, but none of these Americans cared about costs 'cause emotion trumped all reason. (Had to avenge 9/11 don't ya know!)

The deaths in Iraq are very much in the abstract for most people. They just plain old are not thinking about it. Well, they will now.

[SOS]

11. Agreed

Last night, for the first time, I saw an injured American soldier on CNN. His left leg had been blown off and both eyes were gone. There are over 1,400 Americans soldiers in similar condition. If these soldiers were shown with regularity on the news the support for Bush would vaporize very quickly.

[rocktivity]

21. Maybe this will help put a face on the war

http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/iraq/?page=1

It was the face of the Viet Nam war that brought it to an end. Iraq's face is not only being hidden, it's being turned into a pastime, a part of the natural fabric of American life. Have you seen the previews of this season's TV shows? There's one called Threat Matrix, about a bunch of cute young superagents who keep our country safe.


rocknation

[Robbien]

9. Dead bodies are why I am supporting a Democratic candidate

But dead bodies don't sway my representatives. To sway them we have to use the excuse of big bucks.

Sick indeed.

[JHB]

14. When has any other nation in history...

...been any different?

[NNN0LHI]

15. This one

We didn't leave Vietnam because of money. We left because of too many dead bodies. Same reason Reagan left Lebanon, and Clinton left Somalia too.

Don

[Terwilliger]

18. half of this country votes on money

their own or the government's money...pocketbook voters, etc.

As long as there's capitalism, there will be people who care about little else than money.

[Raven]

19. Not very much has changed since Vietnam.

The American people like easy wars that don't cost money. It wasn't until your average middle class guys were getting drafted into the Vietnam War that people started paying attention to what was going on over there. Today, people are losing their jobs and falling out of the middle class and into bankruptcy...of course they care about money. They want to be able to educate their kids and keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. They are not keen on spending money on a country a half a world away whose people hate us.

I don't think George Bush misjudged the American people...I think he knows them very well. He had to lie to get us into this mess. Where he screwed up was in misjudging how hard it was going to be to get out of Iraq and now he's stuck. But I think that the American people will bail him out because basic decency says that we should not abandon a country that we have just laid to ruin. When we left Vietnam there were graphic scenes of people clinging to the rails of helicopters, desperate to get out because they knew what was going to happen to them once US forces left. The same will be true of Iraq.

I predict that Congress will give Bush his money and a good bit of that money will go to Bush's friends, and these friends will take good care of Bush. The UN will give him some meager political cover and get involved. The countries involved will demand some substantial economic benefits for their support and that price will be paid under the table. We will never know the price tag. When the reelection campaign begins in earnest, "terror" will be Bush's ace and he will attempt to frighten the American people into giving him a second term.

Many people are frightened. Until 4 months ago, I took the "T" to work in Boston everyday. It goes through the Kenmore Square tunnel and usually slows down and stops for a while. Every damn day I thought of what I would do if there was a terrorist attack in that tunnel...every goddamned day. If you don't think that the courage of the American people (if we ever collectively had any) has been eroded, you are missing a basic reality of American life in the 21st Century. And George Bush plays on the fear and the erosion of courage like a master fiddler. And why shouldn't people be afraid? Our local police and fire and public health departments are totally unprepared for a terrorist attack. The vaunted Department of Homeland Security is underfunded and unsupported by this administration. We are sitting ducks. And it won't be the Republican elite that get stuck in a Kenmore Square tunnel during an attack...it will me some mother holding down two jobs...or some father trying to make some extra cash to pay a mortgage or some working college kid trying to make it to class. It won't be George or his daughters or his friends.

What we have here is basically a failure of empathy. We have people running this government and the media who have no clue what life is like in the real America. They just don't know and they do not want to know. They will be well taken care of. As with Vietnam, where I began this rant...nobody cared about the poor black boy who died in a muddy trench. We cared when it was "our boys" at risk. Today we have a professional military made up of the poorest among us...people with no political power who have to supplement their pay with food stamps. We will take care of the people of Iraq before we take care of them. And George Bush will make that the price that we must pay for safety and peace of mind.

[NNN0LHI]

20. I know why Will writes so eloquently now Raven. Thanks for your post n/t

[Raven]

22. Thanks for your kind words!

:-)

[tlcandie]

25. WeWereHumans .. eye opening flash about costs of war....

http://www.wewerehumans.com/index.htm

[Cat Atomic]

24. I agree. I 've been floored by the u-turn.

It's actually a bit disheartening. Talk about a morally bankrupt society.

Thousands dead? No problem. Trampling on the Constitution? No problem.

But don't touch my wallet.