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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:29 PM
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On torture
Well well, we are repeatedly told by hyper patriots that all changed on 9.11, and now we have to use torture to get information. Heck we are even given the "ticking bomb standard" which goes something like this. Suppose you are a police officer or intelligence type. Suppose you got this guy in custody who knows where the bomb (insert type here) will go off within oh 24 hours. What would you do to get the information out? And suppose you had to torture this guy and in the end his information saved (insert number of lives here).

This ticking bomb standard has been used by several countries over the years, and now it seems some want to bring it here. Some of these countries have found out just ineffective it is in getting the information. In fact one of the countries where this was approved the 1980's, (to the joy of their internal security force) has been told that they can longer engage in it by their supreme court, since it is very ineffective, as in they have not been able to prevent ONE bombing by these means since it was approved. And yes every instance was approved by a Special Judge... (I wonder if he has problems sleeping by the way)

Now those who say that torture is effective have NEVER worn the uniform, or they would know why we used not to do this. They would know that we don't do this because we want to be humane to the enemy. Actually that is a side benefit. The reason why the US has or at least had this aversion to torture was quite selfish... she understood that if we started making this common practice, in future wars OUR troops would face the same horrors we visited upon others and worst. War fighting commanders also realized over the course of several wars another side effect. the enemy was far more willing to surrender, this meant less of out troops were killed trying to capture this enemy.

This is over now, and in any future conflict our troops can expect the following....

Nails to be pulled

Sexual abuse

Water treatments

rape (though this is a standard and has been a standard since time immemorial)

Electrical wires placed on certain areas of the body and then electrified.

Sensory deprivation

Half squats for eight hours...

Left in a cold room chained to the ground and made to pee and defecate upon themselves.

In other words all that we have done.

Now for those who have no problem with torture and think that torture is a valuable asset, you should know the FBI knows it is very ineffective. Our military knows it is ineffective... after all a person in pain will say ANYTHING to make the pain stop... and usually this anything is what his torturers want to hear. It also makes any possible evidence that you may actually gather of a criminal nature, inadmissible in court... not that we care for things like Habeas Corpus or facing our accuser in a timely manner any more. Everything changed on 9.11 and soon these things will be brought to the US... as they always do, when people approve. After all your neighbor does not support the President, hence he is a terrorist, and an enemy combatant (USPA II)

Am I saying don't question prisoners? Not exactly, but in order to do it we first need to know the enemy (which we really don't), and there are many methods that do not involve torture that would yield the information, assuming people had the patience needed and our interrogators took the time to learn all they could about this enemy. As they say, every man has his price... but driving people instance (ICRC report) is not the way to do it... and what kind of an informant can a psychotic be? (Yes we have driven people to severe psychosis)
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good post!
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