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holiday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:26 AM
Original message
Okay I'm Scared
I thought there was no way Bush would get re-elected (and with just a what 44% approval rating on Inaug day.. how did this happen?)

I'm scared that my parents use to be life long democrats until after 9/11 when they started watching fox news all the time. And now the stuff that comes out of their mouth doesn't sound like them... and in 2000 we were able to make jokes about Bush now they are full out Bush supporters :o(

I'm scared every time I learn of the people that are in Bush's circle of friends. They truly are corrupt, extreme and powerful.

I'm scared that there are4 things like the Plame case, PNAC, etc that most people don't even know about! How is that?

I'm scared how the media is controlled, the elections are controlled. How are we ever going to have a democrat as president again? Especially one that can be trusted not to be on "their" side.

And most scary of all is that there are millions of people in America who don't even realize what is going on??? My family included

How have we been able to keep our minds and recognize what is going on?
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GR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Focus, Focus, Focus.....
This is certainly a bad stretch, but things have been bad before....we'll overcome...Don't let them get you down....
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. It All Comes Down to the Media
They own the news, they own the voting machinez.
They can keep that pendulum swinging to the right as long as those conditions exist.

We can slow down its movement a little.
For that, I put my money on the ACLU.

"committed to helping to deliver the electoral votes of Ohio to the President"
Walden O'Dell, CEO"
The situation with the voting machinez is extremely dire.
Our voting process is under the control of a handful of people
who are all Dominionist Fundamentalist Xtians. They can rig any
election in the country. The only limit to this is their capacity
to get the public to believe the results. For that they need
the help of the news media:

If I were George Soros, I'd be trying to buy or build a TV network.
Though even Soros doesn't have that much money. Ted Turner would help.
With them behind it, if they did an IPO everybody would know about it.
THAT might raise enough money to have our own network.
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Tace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. World News Trust Is Trying To Buy A TV Network
or build one if necessary.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. things haven't been this bad before IMO n/t
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm so sorry

It really sucks when people we love become brainwashed.

Have you tried exposing them to some news generated from outside the U.S.? Sometimes that works. It did for a friend of mine. He's not completely cured of the propaganda, but at least he doesn't think Bush's reaction to 9/11 was heroic anymore.
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holiday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. You know one of the scary things is
is that if I showed Bush supporters stuff from PNAC they would be okay with it, because under the Bush regime, it's not patriotism, it's nationalism. and they would be fine with US world domination.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Let them know there won't be US Domination
since B*sh has sold us to the Chinese.. (Who do they think holds the markers on all that debt?)
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. You got it!
Read a post in here some while back where a person actually showed the PNAC doc to another and that person thought it was WONDERFUL.

PNAC, for politicians and think tankers, isn't a secret. It was a plan drafted in the 90's to be instituted if the chance came along. It's not a classified document either; simply a political plan/agenda.

Ultra right wingers think it's BRILLIANT. Those who are this mind who don't know about it yet will likewise embrace it when they learn of it.

This is the dilemma. This is why so many talking heads and politicians didn't bother to bring it up's common knowledge to the upper eschelon and loved by "the other side". Fair minded and balanced thinkers like you folks are the only ones who DON'T LIKE IT. Patriotism=Nationalism and visa versa...its a hellish predicament.

The ONLY thing I can think of to help de program the brainwashed public is to calmlybegin a lesson plan of history combined with a tactic of reaching into that persons true value system. Try asking the person(s) whether they believe lying is okay. Ask them what their idea of spirituality is...things like this; then go from there slowly in order to bring them about to see that they just might be following the wrong agenda. Show them historical data from this country and from European histories...etc etc.. I wouldn't bother to do this with people I don't know, only with people close to me.

Best, SB
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. You might want to let them in on a little secret.....
The interest on the debt every year now will exceed 350Billion.

It is now 8% on your tax dollar just for interst on the debt.

It will climb steadily to 10%....15%...etc...
As the TOTAL DEBT reaches beyond 10 Trillion....

NO country in the world, even the US...will continue to finance this enormous world class debt at low interest rates.

You have a couple choices....
raise the interest rate and pay unaffordable interest on the debt.


Keep interest rates unusually low like they are now.....

and guarantee that the debt won't be financed into the future.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Exactly What The Large Banks Want...
Notice how the defecits soar whenever GOOPs are in power? It's cause someone's making money when the government borrows.

The question rarely asked is who we borrow's gotta come from somewhere. Some is bought by foreign governments (Chinese, French, Japanese, British), but a good chunk is bought by banks who then sell portions of these debts to investors...making money coming and going.

As the defecits grow, so do the amounts paid on preliminary interest on that debt to the banks...the higher the debt, the more money comes back, the more money those who hold the notes make while nothing is done about reducing that debt. If anything, I'll bet we're barely keeping pace with those interest payments (we borrow to make the about robbing Peter to pay Smith Barney) and the game keeps on rolling.

Listen to some of these "conservative economists"...especially those who say that debt is a good thing for this country...stimulating the economy when the market can't do it. What's it matter anyway, we can borrow forever...let the debt keep growing. It only becomes a problem when we can't find creative ways to finesse it.

The rich & powerful have little time to worry about the consequences of their greed. Live fast and leave a good looking corpse. Life is good for the robber barons these days, and the sheeple go along cause they have been inudated with lies and deceptions that conflict with the lifelong concept of government being good and right. It's gonna take a while for some, not all people to come to their sense. How deep the debt, how many more needless dead? I just hope those most responsible are held accountable and those who supported this regime are shamed and silenced.
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. enjoyed your post
Japan has about 40% of the debt or thereabouts....but they won't want to finance this well into the future because of unusually low interest rates and the fact that they've gone to the wall for us too much as it is.

So....who's next on the list....China. (forget about Europe thanks to Bush and his incompetence)

Do you think they'll be sitting there saying they'll invest mega quantities into our national debt when they see themselves emerging as the next superpower.

Bye Bye Miss American Pie
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thank-You & Why Not Dig Us Deeper?
Isn't a lot of that Japanese debt from the 80's? I didn't think the percentage was still that high, and I thought a lot had been bought up by British and other European interests. Yep, the Chinese have picked up where the Japanese left off.

As long as this country remains such a consuming machine and these countries profit from our massive gluttony, they'll continue to provide and let the tab run up as long as we keep consuming. Without us, their economies sink since no one else consumes or spends like this country does.

I think our ruin is within ourselves. Our corporates will put their short-term interests ahead of even their own survival someday and the ensuing collapse when debt and fancy finance scheme next to the other unravels will be devestating. Sadly, it'll be the little guy who gets squashed.
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You hit on a number of very good points....
Yes, the debt was financed during much better times....when US economic health was considered exemplary.

Now...the theory that we can print more money or grow our way out of debt is for the brain dead.

And yes....the key economic indicators that they revel over are growth and spending. The fact that interest rates have been very low has spurred a last gasp of spending. But it's all coming to a screeching halt pretty soon.... when incremental increases in interest rates suck the life blood out of the middle class.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Now You Know Why I'm Invested In Euros...LOL
I see a replay of the 70's...a combination of war debt, rising oil prices and soaring debt. The artificial interest rates aren't helping either the housing or business sectors these days and there's too many investors out there not making big money in the market and want it in T-bonds and other inflation and interest-rate related.

The rich never lose on these scams. Plus we have such outstanding personal debt...when those rates go up, people aren't gonna know what hit them.

Thanks for your enlightning posts.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. We have a lot of work to do, don't we? n/t
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ask them if they really want their social security checks
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