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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:33 AM
Original message
Would we use depleted uranium shells if we were invaded?
I wonder if it would be logistically possible for us to switch over. I also wonder if republicans would try to deny that anything is wrong with them. Or maybe we are smart enough to not sh*t in our own nest but have no conscience about screwing up other people's countries. Any thoughts?
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. DU shells are for penetrating heavy armor
What I wonder is why are we using them against Iraqi insurgents? Do they have heavy armor?
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. one of the most compelling reasons is to get rid of the thousands of tons
of nuclear waste lying around in the dept. of energy's holding tanks. it also provides tidy little contracts for those who weaponize it and gives the nuclear industry a reason for propagating itself. inventory in inventory out -business of savage capitalism.
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Depleted Uranium-New Study Shows Main Cause of Gulf War Syndrome
The real reason for Mr. Principis departure was really
never given, however a special report published by eminent scientist Leuren
Moret naming DEPLETED
URANIUM as the definitive cause of
the Gulf War Syndrome. This
malady, that thousands of our military have suffered and died from, has finally
been identified as the cause of this sickness, eliminating the guessing. The terrible truth is now being

Since 1991, the United States staged FOUR nuclear wars,
utilizing DU weaponry (which like AO meets the US governments definition of
Weapons of Mass Destruction).
Vast regions of the Middle East and in Central Asia has been permanently
contaminated with radiation.
It is known that (at least) 375 TONS of DU has been used in the 1991 Gulf
War I. Far more has
been used and is still being used in todays Gulf War
Out of the 580,400 soldiers (all branches) who served in
GW1, of them, 11,000 are now dead! By the year 2000, there were
325,000 on PERMANENT medical disability. This astounding number of
Disabled Vets means that a decade later, 56% of those soldiers who served,
have some form of on-going (permanent) medical problems!

The powerful new evidence is blowing holes in he cover-up
perpetrated by the Pentagon, and three presidential administrations (Bush I,
Clinton and Bush II), ever since DU was first used in 1991s Persian Gulf War,
and continuing some 14 years after the introduction of DU on the
battlefield. The long-term
effects have revealed that DU is a virtual death
In a group of 251 soldiers in one study group in
Mississippi, all of whom had normally birthed babies prior to their
participation in either of the two Gulf Wars, 67% of their post-war offspring
were born with severe deformities, including but not limited to, birth defects;
many were born with limbs missing, missing or damaged organs, missing eyes, or
had blood related or immune system diseases. In some veterans families, the
only normal children are those conceived and born before their participation
in either of the Iraqi Wars, and of course, the Department of Veteran Affairs
has stated that they do not keep records of birth defects occurring in families
of Veterans.

Before any new weapons
system can be used, it MUST be tested.
The blueprint for DU Weapons is a 1943 declassified document from the

Harvard President and physicist James B Conant, who
developed poison gas in World War One, was brought into the Manhattan Project by
its leader, the father of John Kerry, the former 2004 Democrat presidential
candidate. Kerrys father served at
a very high level in the Manhattan Project, and was a CIA
Conant was chair of the S-1 Poison Gas Committee, which
recommended developing poison gas weapons from radioactive trash of the WW2
atomic bomb project. At that time,
it was known that radioactive materials dispersed in bombs from the air, from
land vehicles, or on the battlefields produced very fine radioactive dust which
would penetrate all protective clothing, any gas mask, or filter, and of course,
directly into the skin.
By contaminating the lungs and blood, it could kill or cause illness very
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Some of that I knew and some I didn't
We were kind of having a flame war on that other thread, but we can both agree that it's going to be a bad situation when hundreds of thousands of our young men and women come home and start having deformed children. Not to mention the Iraqis that we will never hear about. The costs of this war can't be measured in $87 billion dollar payments.
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poe Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. so true brother
i think about the beautiful children in mesopotamia more than any of the others who suffer but i don't diminish the suffering of others. let's do what we can to stop the military juggernaut it's destroying the earth,non-humans as well. massive civil disobedience all spring/summer.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Have you seen the photos of the children who were affected by the DU
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 02:02 AM by Tinoire
IAC has been fighting this for years but it's kind of hard when so many people are more concerned about their 401ks than they are about the harm this causes to the victims of war, to the soldiers exposed to it, and to the environment.

Here are photos of what depleted uranium does to kids. Warning - graphic & heart-breaking.

There are a ton of links about it here: for antone who wants to read up

January 7, 2001
For Immediate release
Press Contact: Deirdre Sinnott


Deaths from leukemia of Italian, Belgian, Spanish, Portuguese and
other NATO troops occupying Bosnia or Kosovo and other illnesses
have aroused a storm of popular anger and concern about dangers to
NATO troops stationed in the region from the residue of depleted-
uranium weapons.

By Jan. 6, French, Belgian, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and other
governments had demanded that NATO identify the areas hit in Bosnia
and Kosovo by DU shells and to clarify the dangers.

Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, who is a founder of the
International Action Center, has long been an opponent of DU
weapons. On Jan. 6th he once again raised his call for a ban of the use
of these weapons that he first raised in 1996. release] Since then conferences in Baghdad, Iraq, in 1999 and Gijon, Spain
in 2000 have also demanded a ban on DU use.

"This new outbreak of leukemia among European soldiers has
reinforced what we said before," said Clark from New York on Jan. 6. "Is
it acceptable by any human standards that we would permit one shell of
depleted uranium to be manufactured, to be stored, to be used? No! Stop it

Clark is leaving January 12, 2001 for the fourth trip large delegation to
Iraq the IAC has organized to challenge sanctions against that country. He
said that "along with investigating the dangers to NATO soldiers and
guarding their health, the Pentagon should be responsible for the damage
caused in Iraq and in Yugoslavia by these weapons and should clean them

DU is the waste residue made from the uranium enrichment process.
This radioactive and toxic substance, 1.7 times as dense as lead, is used
to make shells that penetrate steel armor.

Many people, including physicists and physicians, believe that uranium-
oxide dust inhaled or ingested by troops in the Gulf War is the cause, or
a contributing cause, of the "Gulf-War Syndrome". Of the approximately
697,000 U.S. troops stationed in the Gulf during the war, over 100,000
veterans are now chronically ill. Cancer rates in southern Iraq have
increased dramatically. For example ovarian cancer in women has increased
by sixteen fold.

The Pentagon used DU in large amounts in Iraq in 1991, in Bosnia in
1995 and in Kosovo in 1999.

In Iraq the U.S. Airforce A-10 aircraft fired approximately 940,000
30mm rounds. In addition 14,000 large caliber DU tank rounds of
105mm were fired. By the end of the war over 600,000 pounds of
uranium from spent rounds lay scattered across Iraq and Kuwait.

In Yugoslavia the current number of rounds that the U.S. government
admits to firing are 31,000. The UN announced on January 5 the it had
found evidence of radioactivity at 8 of the 11 sites tested in Kosovo. The
11 sites tested were among 112 sites in Kosovo hit by DU rounds. A United
Nations report in May, 2000 warned that Kosovo's water could be so
contaminated as to be unfit to drink.

The number of targets hit by DU rounds through out the rest of
Yugoslavia was not reported. About 10,000 rounds were fired by U.S.
NATO forces in Bosnia in 1994-95.

When Italian soldier Rinaldo Colombo died last September of leukemia, it
brought the total of Italian soldiers believed to have died from "Balkans
Syndrome" to five. By January nine cases of leukemia had been reported.

In Belgium, five cases of cancer have been diagnosed in soldiers who were
on duty in the Balkans. In Spain, two soldiers have also been affected.
One died in October. Portuguese Corporal Hugo Paulino arrived home in
Lisbon from Kosovo in mid-February complaining of headaches and feeling
sick. He died on March 9 in the military hospital. According to his
father, Luis Paulino, medical examinations revealed neither meningitis nor
encephalitis. His father is certain "it was depleted uranium that killed

Investigations begin

The Spanish government has launched a study of the health of the
32,000 Spanish soldiers who have been in the Balkans. The
Portuguese government will examine 900 of its country's troops.

Belgian Defense Minister Andre Flahaut wrote a letter Dec. 29 to
Bjorn von Sydow, the defense minister of Sweden. That country takes over
the European Union presidency Jan. 1. The letter called on EU defense
ministers to discuss health problems suffered by troops stationed in
Bosnia or Kosovo.

In mid-December the Italian government launched an inquiry into why
some of their military personnel have recently died of leukemia.
Defense Minister Sergio Mattarella had affirmed that "10,800 depleted
uranium projectiles were fired by American aircraft" on Bosnia between
1994 and 1995. Without naming them explicitly, Mattarella accused the U.S.
military officials of hiding information about DU from allies.

John Catalinotto, a co-editor with Sara Flounders of the book the
International Action Center published on this topic, "Metal of Dishonor:
Depleted Uranium", commented on the new discovery of illness among
European troops. The IAC also distributes a video with the same name,
produced by the Peoples Video Network.

Catalinotto said, "It's true the Pentagon avoids publicizing details of
its use of DU weapons and has covered up the extent of DU use. That has
been its policy from the beginning. At the same time there are all sorts
of warnings in studies by the U.S. Army admitting that DU is dangerous.

"Still," he added, there can be no doubt the NATO militaries knew the U.S.
was using depleted-uranium shells, which are the usual U.S. anti- tank
weapon. In Metal of Dishonor and in news releases in April 1999 we exposed
DU's use in Bosnia and warned of its use in Kosovo. And during the 1999
war the media prodded Pentagon spokespeople to admit publicly that U.S.
A-10 planes were firing DU shells.

"But the European population is furious that its youth are being
exposed to dangers. With the European governments, there's another
story. They knowingly took part in a dirty war of aggression against
Yugoslavia. They hoped to get some of the spoils.

"Now only Washington, Berlin and London are getting spoils," said
Catalinotto, "while Italian and Portuguese troops are patrolling DU-
polluted areas of Kosovo. And now Bush says he wants
to pull troops out. There's a saying that 'When thieves fall out, honest
people learn the truth.' There is an opportunity to learn the truth about
DU right now."

Sara Flounders, a director of the International Action Center described
the work of the DU Education Project based at the IAC. "The DU Education
Project first helped to raise international awareness of the consequences
of the Pentagon's use of radioactive weapons in Iraq. We were the first
group to warn that the same weapons were being used in Bosnia in 1995 and
in the 78 day bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999. We contacted anti-U.S. base
movements in several countries and helped to expose the test firing and
storage of DU munitions in Okinawa, Japan, in South Korea, in Vieques,
Puerto Rico and the Israeli use of U.S. supplied, DU-armored tanks in the
West Bank and Gaza."

"In every country the U.S. government has first denied and then
stonewalled any discussion of the impact of radioactive weapons.
There is a total disregard for the consequences for their own soldiers and
for the population of the occupied country. Only an aroused mass movement
has dragged the truth out."

An International Appeal to
Ban the Use of Depleted Uranium Weapons
(First circulated in 1996)

Depleted-uranium weapons are an unacceptable threat to life, a
violation of international law and an assault on human dignity. To
safeguard the future of humanity, we call for an unconditional
international ban forbidding research, manufacture, testing,
transportation, possession and use of DU for military purposes. In
addition, we call for the immediate isolation and containment of all DU
weapons and waste, the reclassification of DU as a radioactive and
hazardous substance, the cleanup of existing DU-contaminated areas,
comprehensive efforts to prevent human exposure and medical care for those
who have been exposed.

During the Gulf War, munitions and armor made with depleted uranium
were used for the first time in a military action. Iraq and northern
Kuwait were a virtual testing range for depleted-uranium weapons. Over
940,000 30-millimeter uranium tipped bullets and "more than 14,000 large
caliber DU rounds were consumed during Operation Desert Storm/Desert
Shield." (U.S. Army Environmental Policy Institute) These weapons were
used throughout Iraq with no concern for the health and environmental
consequences of their use. Between 300 and 800 tons of DU particles and
dust have been scattered over the ground and the water in Kuwait, Saudi
Arabia and Iraq. As a result, hundreds of thousands of people, both
civilians and soldiers, have suffered the effects of exposure to these
radioactive weapons.

Of the 697,000 U.S. troops who server in the Gulf, over 90,000 have
reported medical problems. Symptoms include respiratory, liver and
kidney dysfunction, memory loss, headaches, fever, low blood
pressure. There are birth defects among their newborn children. DU is la
leading suspect for a portion of these ailments. The effects on the
population living in Iraq are far greater. Under pressure, the Pentagon
has been forced to acknowledge Gulf War Syndrome, but they are still
stonewalling any connection to DU.

Communities near DU weapons plants, testing facilities, bases and
arsenals have also been exposed to this radioactive material which has a
half-life of 4.4 billion years. DU-weapons are deployed with U.S. troops
in Bosnia. The spreading toxicity of depleted uranium threatens life

DU weapons are not conventional weapons. They are highly toxic,
radioactive weapons. All international law on warfare has attempted to
limit violence to combatants and to prevent the use of cruel and unfocused
weapons. International agreements and conventions have tried to protect
civilians and non-combatants from the scourge of war and to outlaw the
destruction of the environment and the food supply in order to safeguard
life on earth.

Consequently, DU weapons violate international law because of their
inherent cruelty and unconfined death-dealing effect. They threaten
civilian populations now and for generations to come. These are
precisely the weapons and uses prohibited by international law for
more than a century including the Geneva Conventions and their
Protocols Additional of 1977.
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Susie Sees All Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Are you sure about depleted uranium?
I've heard reports that depleted uranium is harmful. The reports make complete sense to me. At the same time, I found a website that claims that depleted uranium is completely harmless. It's hard to explain this disparity. I believe that DU is very harmful, but I also wonder about the people who say DU is completely harmless. To think they're part of some grand conspiracy seems possible, but that seems really out there to me. Can you explain how this website could be so far off?
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hi Susie Sees All!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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