Student Sues to End Summer Homework

[ckramer]

MILWAUKEE Jan 21, 2005 — A student whose vacation plans were spoiled has sued to end summer homework in Wisconsin, claiming it creates an unfair workload and unnecessary stress.

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Do you support this?

[DrWeird]

1. Do I support ruining that little asshole's summer?

absolutely.

[7th_Sephiroth]

2. SUMMER homework? WTF???

thats not right

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. We had summer work every year I was in school

and I survived.

But as a teacher, I oppose this idea. Actually, I support year round schooling which would make this argument a non issue.

[ArcRabbit]

3. Good for you Kid

nt

[txaslftist]

4. If he's smart enough to sue, he doesn't need homework...

He needs to go to LAW SCHOOL.

[ckramer]

10. LOL

But that might be the idea of his lawyer father.

[RC]

5. Depends

Some of those kids work full time to support themselves. And sometimes even the rest of the family.

Not all kids can buy and support a car on their allowance. Some work to put food on the table for their brothers and sisters.

[Dora]

6. I think it's legit, but unfortunate.

Excepting homework issued by summer school classes or schools on year-round schedules, I think the idea of summer calc homework is crap.

The courts probably aren't the best way to pursue this, but if the kid's family feels they got the runaround by the school board and the district, then I'm sure they felt it was the only recourse they had.

For whose benefit are these kids being assigned homework? Their own? I doubt it. It makes it easier on the teacher to 1) not review previously covered material as well as 2) "teach to the test."

It's one thing to ask a kid to read an assigned book over summer vacation. It's an entirely different thing to ask the same kid to do math problems, whether it's remedial or honors. Why do I think they are different? Because reading a book will provide its own context, but studying new mathematical concepts outside of the classroom without the support of a teacher or fellow students is contextless, and I doubt there are many kids who are conscious learners capable of teaching themselves new concepts on their own.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. I think it totally depends on the amount of work assigned

Going into this year we were assigned a summer math packet due the first day of school. The packet took a total of two hours of my time at maximum, I believe I did it the night before school started. That kind of thing I don't mind even as a student. What this kid was assigned sounds like bullshit, I agree with him and his father.

[WI_DEM]

7. only if he is getting a job during the summer

but I guess the stress of actually working might be even more horrendous for him. Sorry, little sympathy.

[fujiyama]

8. Before my AP English class

in my senior year of HS, we had a reading list of a couple books and we had to write journal entries on it.

I don't think it was a big deal but then again she was also really lax on deadlines so we didn't have to turn it in immediately after the school year started.

But I think that summer hw in general makes little sense. I don't blame a teacher for advising students to review certain concepts as pre reqs for a class (and maybe even quizing the students on those concepts when the school year starts), but actually assigning graded homework is a dumb idea.

[Lisa]

9. in some places, parents demand holiday homework ...

Several friends who are high school or elementary school teachers have reported that anxious parents clutching newspaper articles about "erosion of student skills over the summer" have come up to them, asking why they aren't doing anything about this by assigning extra work. And usually this is followed up with jibes about how it's the least a teacher could do for his/her students, what with being overpaid and having such a long summer holiday!

One teacher told a parent that she wasn't planning on assigning summer homework for her students because it made extra work for her --plus she didn't think it helped the kids, many of whom would be busy enough working summer jobs just to save for college. She said that there were plenty of educational camps or summer school programmes around town, that could do a much better job of preparing students for September, if that was the concern. She ended up getting called into the principal's office because the parent had complained that she was "apathetic and unhelpful". Luckily the principal was sympathetic.

I actually did have many years when I had "summer homework" -- because my father was a teacher who didn't trust "newfangled" things like "the new math" and wanted me to learn algebra and Latin when school was not in session. (You know Martin Sheen's character on "The West Wing"? Yep, that's my dad.) And I have to say, after having been in the educational system long enough to get a graduate degree, that this didn't really help me with my work. Encouraging me to do an independent research project at my own pace during the summer, pick out an interesting book on my own to read, or just allowing me to goof off and take a break, would have been more beneficial. (He's changed his views now.)

[ckramer]

12. yeah.

Let kids play by themselves would grow their brain better. Too much schooling made a kid dull.

I would take the kid travel around the country or the world in summer if money and time are not a problem.

[ckramer]

11. Well the whole point is why having a summer vacation then if there are so?

many homeworks?

Secondly, why force people being "smart"? (I doubt very much doing homework would make one smart) That's thing I never understand.

"Leave no kids behind", bullshit. People have the right to be dumb.

"Leave the kids alone" in the summer would be more appropriate imo.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. I see no use in summer vacation these days

with our national educational system crumbling and students' performance declining every decade, I think summer break should be either abolished outright or lessened to maybe a month.

People have a right to be dumb? It's that attitude that's a big part of the problem, imho. :eyes:

[Crandor]

16. while we're at it let's make the school day 23 hours long

Funny how when some people finish school they start thinking it was the greatest thing ever, no matter how much they loathed it when they were actually there...

[tx_dem41]

17. Not all of us loathed it.

My parents engendered in me a love of education (possibly because their experience was limited). I will pass that onto my kids. Too many parents, I think, still hate school, which is contrary to what you posted.

[phylny]

26. I simply do not have the same view of school nowadays as you do.

My three children are getting an excellent education - and learning much more than I did - in 180 days or less.

I see nothing crumbling in the states my kids have attended school (Indiana, Illinois, Virginia, and New York).

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. The point is not to have a summer vacation

The reason kids don't go to school in the summer goes back to the fact that this was largely an agricultural society when this school calendar was created. Farmers needed their kids home to help on the farm during the summer.

This model obviously doesn't fit our society today. With so many parents working full time outside of the home, summer vacation creates a hardship for many families who have a daycare burden in the summer.

We are long past the day when year round school should have become a reality nationwide. The reason it hasn't is economic. Schools need to be air conditioned and teachers need to be paid more to work year round. And in this day of spending money on wars instead of education, I don't see year round school happening anytime soon.

[phylny]

27. One reason year-round school may not work

is that TEACHERS need time off. Having worked in a school, I know this much is true.

In many cases, no amount of extra money would pay for year-round school. Teacher burn-out would be that much greater.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I know a lot of teachers oppose it

but I support it because I think it's what is best for kids. Of course, they will have to increase my salary by A LOT and I doubt they can afford it. Then there is the air conditioning issue, which is an expensive enough factor all by itself to kill the year round argument.

As for the burn out issue, that can be avoided with a creative calendar. My sister lived in England a few years and her kids were in school 9 weeks and off 3. She liked it. Sounds workable to me.

[phylny]

29. Good info, thanks.

The air conditioning thing - oh, yeah.

When our kids went to school in Illinois, they had no A/C in NEW BUILDINGS because of the expense.

I can't blame them, but when the kid had classes on the 2nd floor, they just about DIED.

I actually like the current calendar. You're only a kid for 18 years - and spend the rest of your life working. I say, let kids be kids, but that's me - and the current calendar has served me, my husband, and my children very well.

[amazona]

14. I absolutely support this

Real education, real ability to think, requires some space to develop one's own thoughts and to have one's own experiences.

I am always shocked and a little horrified by how much homework is required of children today. It is as if the school system really wants to take over and invade every little bit of private thinking space. Even elementary age kids have homework -- unthought of in my day. Study hall was already being phased out when I was in high school, and now it and recess and gym class is a thing of the past in some school systems. Extending the school's dirty little tentacles into the summer holiday sounds like a wonderful way to teach children to hate learning. And maybe that is the point.

After all, education is now paid for by lottery in many states. And an educated populace doesn't buy as many lottery tickets as an uneducated one.

We really over-load children today. It breaks my heart to see tiny children with huge backpacks bigger than anything I could carry. No wonder by the time they're high school age they hate learning with so much passion.

For me every time I visited the library it was magical. But for them the magic has been crushed.

Yeah, I support the kid's lawsuit. Even if he loses his suit, it's great that he is thinking outside the box and fighting for a little free space for himself. It will be a far more educational experience for him than just doing the stupid homework.

I give him an A.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Lisa]

18. beautifully put ...

"Real education, real ability to think, requires some space to develop one's own thoughts and to have one's own experiences."

I'm teaching a 3rd-year college course on landscape architecture. Early in the term the students have to do a presentation on the features of an environment, either natural or human-built, which they have contemplated "while not doing anything else". One of the interesting things that's emerged over the past few years is that many students are unused to just "being" in a landscape, and find the assignment difficult and bewildering. We've found that we now have to issue a checklist of things to look for, due to student demand, because they don't know what to focus on and are uncomfortable with something so unstructured.

When I asked the class for reasons why this might be so, overscheduling by parents and schools was mentioned several times. It seems that adults are getting increasing suspicious of people under the age of 19 who are "just hanging around with nowhere they have to be". (Playing video games, eating junk food, etc. is acceptable because they are being consumers. Writing poetry or looking at the clouds is not.)

One student talked about a spare lot where he used to play as a kid. He asked for a show of hands on how many people had a similar special place. Fewer than half the class responded.

It's very difficult to teach humanistic concepts, in particular, if there isn't enough time to absorb them, or students aren't given a chance to have a diverse range of experiences which they can then draw upon. I could show video clips in class, but nothing could really compare with allowing the students time to explore various residential neighbourhoods over the semester (which they normally wouldn't have done, since adults try to discourage random wandering), and think about what it would be like to live there, or consider why they felt hopeful, envious, or apprehensive when they explored these places.

[Liberty Belle]

15. Bravo! It's about time someone challenged summer homework.

My two kids, both high school honors students, were snowed under with homework the past couple of summers.

Our daughter had much more than just reading. Her teachers loaded her up with reports, worksheet packets, and more. The poor kid spent practically every spare second (when not working her two jobs and training as a competitive skater) on homework.

She even had to drag the books along on vacation, missing some of the family's activities in Alaska in order to finish up all the homework before school started.

This is totally unnecessary. There were many days during the school year when teachers were absent and substitutes showed movies or gave the kids busywork, not to mention parties and other non-academic activities.

Let the kids unwind, relax and have some fun, for Pete's sake. Our district has already shortened up summer break from 3 months to 2, and requires kids to be back in town a couple of weeks before school starts for mandatory orientation and registration days.
There is absolutely no need to put this kind of pressure on students and their families.

[Deja Q]

19. Offspring in England go to school YEAR ROUND. Tell this toddler to

shut the fuck up.

Just wait until it gets into corporate america. That's far worse than what European countries get...

[ChairOne]

20. Student sues for right to be an idiot!

sheesh. That's about the only thing Americans insist on these days...

[dsc]

21. It would have been nice to have some idea what the homework was

but I have to say that this country has the shortest school year of any industrialized nation and the results show. We need more like 225 or so days of school a year as opposed to 180. If the homework was a reasonably small amount I really don't see the problem though the ideal solution is to lengthen the school year.

[LizW]

22. It depends on what the homework is

A reading list is great, assuming there are lots of choices and variety to suit different interests. Kids are so loaded with work during the school year that they don't have a lot of time to just read for entertainment.

I would be concerned if my child had lots of math or complex projects.

I remember fondly the summers when I was a kid. I read constantly, and hung out up trees and helped in my grandmother's garden. After about seventh grade, I had jobs and those days of relatively carefree relaxation never came again.

I wish my kids could experience that, but times are different now.

[Lisa]

23. gardening IS homework!

Many kids never have a chance to learn these skills. Useful for when they get older and can use their experience to grow their own food, or as a part-time job. Plus -- believe me, anybody teaching your children biology or earth sciences later on will really appreciate the fact that they already have some practical hands-on. I had to explain concepts like "pollination" to a group of 3rd-year college students, who'd grown up in urban areas and never had a chance to observe it in gardens.

[MountainLaurel]

33. They'll never get the chance now

It would take too much time away from preparing for standardized tests.

[Kitsune]

30. Ahhh, homework. I remember that.

They tell you it's critical all the way through high school that it's critical for your learning experience that you parrot what you learned in class that day.

Then you get to college and they turn it on its head. "Read the first half of the Republic by Wednesday. There'll be a discussion."

I'm firmly of the opinion that K-12 education exists only to make college seem even more awesome by comparison. ;)

[Radical Activist]

31. I can't believe I never thought of this as a student! n/t

[baldguy]

32. School should go year-round.

Having summers off was meant to allow the kids to help their families with the harvest. Its an archaic remnant that needs to be done away with.

[ckramer]

34. School should go year-round?

What a crazy thought. In my view, helping their families with the harvest learn ten times more than reading a book.

80% of the stuff learned from school are useless in the real world. (When was the last time you use calculus?) Yet kids spent almost twenty years of their life to just do that - sitting in a classroom learning something irrelevant or uninteresting. What a waste.

Lots of great leaders in business were former C students. You know why s/he can become a boss while kids graduated from MIT or Harvard can't? I guess answer is - they played (not studied) a lot when they were kid!

[baldguy]

35. A big part of education is learning how to think.

That's what things like mathematics, philosophy and logic teach you. Critical thinking & problem solving skills are essential for success in the real world.

Sure there are a lot of people who've become successful that didn't do well in school - but they are the exception. For the vast majority, the more successful people are the ones who worked hard & did well during their formal education. Those who chose to be slackers usually end up in low-wage dead-end jobs.

[ckramer]

37. Why does year-round schooling have anything to do with

the skill of critical thinking & problem solving?

There would be no time for students to think for themselves in a year round school. It would kill them.

[tx_dem41]

41. You must have not had a very good schooling experience .

I generally had great teachers. Reflecting back on my schooling experience, I got the most out of those classes that were challenging (in class and at home with homework). I'm grateful those teachers pushed me hard to succeed.

I wish more Americans felt that way.

[sir_captain]

36. ah man

i knew that harvard degree would be useless! what was i thinking?!?

[tx_dem41]

40. I use calculus everyday....

I'm an engineer, and this country could use a lot more of them...good ones.

I have a feeling if the homework assignment wasn't mathematics, a lot less people would be complaining on this thread. To me, that just reflects that this country is 28 out of 40 in math literacy amongst developed countries. 28 and dropping.

[philosophie_en_rose]

38. When does the school's jurisdiction end?

If school is not in session, how can the school order homework? It's one thing to have prerequisites to join a class (a reading list, previous classes), but it's another thing entirely to assign homework for classes that are either over from the previous year or not yet in session.

I believe in high standards, but vacations ought to be vacations. Kids are pressured to perform in school and deserve to have time to pursue other things. It doesn't matter if some parents allow their children to waste summers.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

42. No, I don't support the kid.

Deal with it.
It's not unnecessary stress.
I had summer reading lists in high school. It never spoiled my summer vacation.