Social Security-Nobody even talks about the true fraud that it is!

[kuozzman]

Why this has yet to be discussed is beyond me. Most people think that the govt. securities in the SS trust fund are as good as cash-not true at all. The "half-a-trillion to two-trillion", as John Snow recently referred to it(that's one hell of an approximation!!!) that will be borrowed is to pay back the "surplus"(roughly $1.5Trillion), which doesn't exist! Bush 41 started the trend of spending it and replacing it with "special issue" treasury notes, which are worthless!

This is explained in the CBO’s annual report on the “Budget of the United States” annually, in some form or another. (2000 Report): These balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other trust fund expenditures--but only in a bookkeeping sense. These funds are not set up to be pension funds, like the funds of private pension plans. They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. From an economic standpoint, the Government is able to prefund benefits only by increasing saving and investment in the economy as a whole. (2003 Report): The Government’s responsibilities to make future payments for social insurance and certain other programs are not shown as liabilities according to Federal accounting standards; however, they are measured in other contexts.

This fraud is also explained in the congressional record:

On October 9, 1990, Senator Moynihan said this in a speech on the Senate floor, and the moderator asked Senator Heinz if he agreed with the characterization of what was going on as “thievery.” With great candor he said, “Certainly not. It is not thievery. It is embezzlement.”

Congressional Record: January 9, 1990-Senator Moynihan
http://thomas.loc.gov

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada then made the following statement on the Senate floor, “I think that is a very good illustration of what I was talking about, embezzlement, thievery. Because that, Mr. President, is what we are talking about here. During the period of growth we have had during the past 10 years, the growth has been from two sources: One, a large credit card with no limits on it, and, two, we have been stealing money from the Social Security recipients of this country.

Congressional Record: January 9, 1990-Senator Heinz
http://thomas.loc.gov

On October 13, 1989, Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina, in a speech on the Senate floor, expressed his outrage at the fraudulent practices that had been taking place. He said, “Of course, the most reprehensible fraud in this great jambalaya of frauds is the systematic and total ransacking of the Social Security trust fund in order to mask the true size of the deficit. As we all know, the Social Security payroll tax has become a money machine for the U.S. Treasury, generating fantastic revenue surpluses in excess of the costs of the Social Security program.”

(Still quoting Sen. Hollings)
Any way you slice it, it is a lousy public policy to borrow massively from the Social Security trust fund with no credible plan for reimbursement. Of course, the immediate damage from this approach is that it allows us to mask the true scale of the Federal budget deficit, thus making it easier for us politicians to sit on our hands. This is a gross breach of faith with the American people.

Congressional Record: October 13, 1989-Senator Hollings
http://thomas.loc.gov

I further explain it in my blog:
http://ignorantusa.tripod.com/socialsecurity /

And more so on my website:
http://ignorantusa.tripod.com/id19.html

[patcox2]

1. Right wing propaganda. SS buys US government bonds.

If those bonds are worthless, god help us. GWBush lists US government bonds as his largest holdings among his personal assets. Are his bonds worthless?

They are only worthless if the criminal republicans deliberately decide that they are going to default on them. You only encourage the theft by telling people its a fait accompli. Spread your republican-randian-libertarian drivel elsewhere.

[juajen]

2. Why do you call it drivel?

Do you remember how insistent Al Gore was that SS fund be placed in a "pseudo" lock box? That's what Clinton's surplus was all about. He had actually replaced the funds, but it was counted like regular money, which the pugs immediately began spending with their "marvelous" tax cuts and their war on terror. As stated above, the Treasury bonds are not regular issue treasury bonds, and cannot be counted as assets. It's like we, the American people, are the government's credit card, meaning they can default if they like at any time. It certainly looks to me that they are going to try to default or do anything rather than paying it back; and then, of course, if we get a democrat house, senate or white house, we will then be accused of raising taxes, you know "tax and spend" liberals; of course, the tax should only be on the shoulders of the rich because they are the ones who prospered. This moniker has worked very well for them, as the dems (well, some of them) attempt to keep their faith with ss and the American people.

This issue needs to be raised again and again, beginning now. Problem is, they keep lying, and the people keep buying. On DU, at least, we should have an investigative thread which reaches a conclusion with thousands of letters going to congress and the pResident. Their skulduggery needs to be exposed ad infinitum.

[leftyandproud]

12. Some people on the left don't want to face reality on this.

Yes, the system is a ponzi scheme...and YES, it will go broke in a few decades.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patcox2]

6. I know the topic very well.

And I know this crap for what it is, republican propaganda, lies and drivel.

Every US government bond must be repaid from general revenues. Does this mean all government bonds are worthless, meaningless accounting tricks?

You are repeating a right wing talking point. The SS fund is a scam, the republicans and the loony libertarians say (unholy alliance there), so that you will march with them down the road to destroying it.

The notion that the bonds owned by the SS administration are somehow not real is a criminal notion. Criminal. The idea that the congress would consider selectively refusing the SS bonds while honoring others is valid only if you assume that is what congress will do, you are in other words arguing that they are worthless because we will choose not to pay them. In other words, you are arguing that they are worthless for no other reason than because we will declare them worthless. That is not a valid assumption. You are creating a fait accompli argument, assuming the existence of the fact that you then use as the argument for your conclusion.

You cannot have it both ways, people say "its a ponzi scheme, it takes from the young and pays the money to the old." So, in the early 80s, they passed reforms which raised deductions so the fund would build up reserves to pay for the baby boomers.

The SS fund ran a surplus of more than $100 billion this year. If what you say is true, that means all of that money is being stolen.

But here is the biggest point; its not a flaw in the social security system that its reserves are being stolen. Its a flaw in the people doing the stealing. Don't say "we have to take away your pension to prevent congress from stealing your pension." How about directing the punishment towards the wrongdoers and prevent congress from doing the stealing in the first place?

The fact that your argument is that we should reward the theives and punish the victims is the proof that it is nothing but either republican or libertarian drivel, lies, propaganda.

[kuozzman]

11. I'm not sure that we're on the same page

The 3 main points I'm trying to make are:
-The bonds in the SS trust fund AREN'T normal bonds.
They are basically phony assets (non-marketable government securities) held in the trust fund as if they were real assets. They are not. They cannot be used to pay benefits. In 1983 the government quietly abandoned the practice of issuing regular marketable Treasury bonds to Social Security. The government established a policy of issuing only "special issues", a type of government IOU designed exclusively for the government trust funds. These special issues are worthless unless and until the government chooses to repay the looted money by raising taxes or borrowing massive additional funds from the public.

-Almost every dollar in the SS trust fund has been spent on "general expenses" and replaced with these non-marketable govt. securities.

-That is why Bush wants to privatize-so they can borrow the roughly $1.5trillion to pay back the trust fund.

Agree/disagree?

I'm pretty sure you disagree with my first point, but the CBO report, among other govt. documents, supports what I say. And if you think I'm wrong, then what is the $1-2trillion that Bush wants to borrow for?

[ClassicDem]

16. Where does the Government get the money...

to pay back US Government Bonds?

[kuozzman]

17. That's the thing

technically, Bush 41, Clinton and Chimp all owe a portion of it. Obviously nobody wants to figure that one out. I think that's why Chimp will get to privatize without much (real)objection. Part of his plan is to borrow $1-2trillion (to pay back the trust). So basically, taxpayers are getting the tab for $1-2trillion in stolen money.

[ClassicDem]

18. it's a double tax,

we pay it once in SS and then again later to buy back the government bonds.

[patcox2]

9. I see you quote Hollings as he attacks the budget.

But Hollings is not attacking social security, is he, he is attacking the budget and the practice of running deficits.

Thats why your post is republican propaganda. You are correct, that the social security revenues are being used to fund government and shouldn't be, but that doesn't argue that social security is a fraud and should be eliminated. That argues THAT WE STOP STEALING THE MONEY. You want to punish SS for being the victim of robbery. Beautiful.

You have no idea who you are colling a moron, I will take it as a compliment from anyone who would post this drivel.

[sendero]

4. Good luck with this..

... a huge contingent of folks here on DU refuse to understand that the SS "trust fund" is a government IOU and nothing more. It is the government's FUTURE ABILITY TO COLLECT TAXES IN AN AMOUNT THAT IS MORE THAN IS NEEDED TO FUND THE REST (not SS) of the GOVERNMENT.

Surely, one can reasonably say that "if we cannot trust government bonds what can we trust"? But the fact remains that billions of dollars are being collected for "future SS payments" (15.2% of every wage dollar earned) and it is ALL BEING SPENT NOW, and even with all that free money WE STILL HAVE A BUDGET DEFICIT.

I certainly don't think "privatization" is any answer but pulling your head out of the sand and understanding what is really happening is always a good plan.

[stray cat]

5. You're right good post. S.S. suplus is being used for uses other than S.S

It is a regressive tax that has been used to pay for the budget of the U.S. including Bush's tax cuts instead of being saved for it proposed purpose: social security.

I totally support S.S. and totally condemn the fraudulent way the funds have been collected and used.

[patcox2]

7. Social Security isn't the fraud, its the diversion of the funds.

Thats why this post is republican propaganda. Blaming the victim. Great idea, lets take away your pensions and allow congress to keep all the money it has taken. That'll teach us.

The deficit is a fraud, the use of SS funds to fund the deficit may be a fraud (after all, borrowing money with no intent to repay it is in fact criminal fraud.) But that doesn't make Social Security a Fraud. Thats like saying my bank is a fraud because it got robbed and the robbers took my money.

The federal budget is a fraud, not Social Security.

[WoodrowFan]

8. FYI: the Lincoln Quote on your site

is a fake. Sorry. Good quote tho.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln.htm

[txaslftist]

10. SSSSSNORE.

r/w flamebait.

[parentalalienation]

13. I do!

The problem is that most people don't start to worry about it until they are aproaching retirement.

For years, ever since I learned about the social security system in middle school, we have been told that there was more money being borrowed from social security than what was being put into it.

I say that the government needs to hand over control of social security to an independent business. If they can't deal with it give it to someone who can. If not, stop taking taxpayer's money and let them invest where they see fit.

I hope all of you have alternative resources for your retirement because social security will be bankrupt before I ever see a dime of it.

[lonestarnot]

15. Jo Mama's Trust fund?

[lonestarnot]

14. SOLUTION: Underground economy....Pay in cash, buy with cash... No taxes

No ss payments to government.

[Cleita]

19. I went to the SS office today to claim my widow's benefits,

which will be the major part of my income once I get it. I don't appreciate your spreading astroturf at my and other senior's expense. We worked all our lives for these benefits. Please stop! Stop! Stop!

If the Republican fascists ruin this system, and I find myself at the time of my greatest need, at the end of my life, without resources, I promise you I will blow my brains out in a prominent place in Washington D. C., for the world to see.