01/06/05-The Day the Democratic Party & Democracy Died in America

[Pachamama]

Someday, when my two young children are old enough to understand, I'll tell them that January 6th, 2005 was the day the Democratic Party and Democracy died in America.

I will teach them about a great American patriot named Barbara Boxer and her Brave Stand with the Black Congressional Caucus to take a stand. I'll explain to them that it was the failure of the Democrats to stand united and support the US Constitution and the rights of voters by either not showing to vote or to vote against the measure to reject the Ohio Electoral Vote is why their Mom & Dad switched from the Democratic Party to the Green Party and never gave a penny again to the DNC. I will tell them I continued to support the 33 Brave Democrats in the House and the one brave Senator that voted in favor to reject an unclean election and support instead the rights of the voters and the US Constitution.

Today is a day of shame and in my opinion, the death of democracy in America....all we will see moving forward is the "one party system" controlled by a party that is not the "GOP" of my parents and grandparents and that every single thing this country has stood for, from civil rights, civil liberties, rights of privacy, and all the hard fought rights and societal protections of its citizens from education, minimum wage, environmental protections and social security will be eliminated or so dismantled that they will hardly matter.

Then, when I show my children the pictures of John Kerry, holding the pictures of them when he and I talked about this election being about "our children's future" and the pictures of me with my children in several swing states campaigning for Kerry, and of the night before the election in Cleveland where I was within 15 feet from the stage and heard him saying that he was "fighting for us" and then I will tell them about how on January 6th, 2005, Kerry did not show up to speak or vote or fight for those voter rights and after their Mommy had worked hard at raising over $30,000.00 for the "GELAC" Fund that was supposed to pay for challenges and investigations into voter fraud and legal challenges, and how instead, Kerry "conceded" in less then 24 hours of the polls closing and that all votes were not counted and that for two months, he basically did....NEXT TO NOTHING....

Then I will point to a picture of my 4 year old in the arms of Howard Dean, and tell her about her comment that she said to me "I thought he was going to be President, Mommy?"

He should have been dear, he should have been....

:cry:

[autorank]

1. With all due respect, NO WAY. Don't even think of laying down.

This was a great day. The blob got up and did a short jig. Amazing, have you ever seen a blob dance? Not but twice in 100 years.

Today was extremely special. Through a heroic effort of national organizing and action, enough pressure was brought to get someone to stand up for democracy. Don't fool yourself, Boxer would have been kidnapped if she hadn't had endorsement. She got support in the debate and people spoke in her behalf.

This is the start not the end of a great movement:

a multi cultural, multi issue, multi party, multi ethnic grand coalition for

*****************VOTING RIGHTS****************

[Chipper Chat]

11. Today delayed the repuklican takeover by one day.

It pissed them off. They were ALL reading from the same Rovian script. Clones. Huxley Apha-minus wanna-bees. Scared rabbits united in a show of toughness and "logic." All saying the same crap - "Bush lost - get over it" dogma.
You bet it was special. Very cool. I hope alot of black Americans were watching because it revealed the true colors of the refucklican party.

[autorank]

27. Hope you change your mind. Rev. Jackson didn't say leave

the Democratic Party; Rev. Moss didn't say leave the Democratic party; and David Cobb did not say leave the Democratic party.

They all talked about a coalition of progressives to fight like hell for voting rights.

If you want to sit that out, fine but be realistic. There is a movement and it started today!

[Pachamama]

13. I hope your right, but the Dem Party lost me today-My heart & $$$$

"The blob got up and did a short jig"....yep, that's what it was...and then it sat back down on its ass, probably for another 100 years...

I'm going green & taking care of my family & friends and my little "world" here in Marin County, CA. Last week, my husband and I bought a 5 acre parcel of land in British Columbia and we will be building a house there....we shall see what the future brings...as far as I'm concerned, the Democratic Party is dead (self-imploded), we have a 1-party system w/ the GOP fascists and Corporate America in control (leaving the handful of people with integrity and true commitment to our Constitution with next to no voice or power) and a media that has forgotten their job as watchdog of government and an American public that is clueless.

I say let the GOP control it all and let this country's supporters of these people in the 1 party system become so absolutely miserable and suffering and eventually, they will hopefully wake up and there will be a revolution....meanwhile, I'm tired and I'm looking out for my family and friends...I love my country, but it clearly doesn't love itself or its Constitution and democracy if they would allow this to happen and not take to the streets....

:cry:

[autorank]

28. David Cobb did not ask Democrats to leave their party.

I was 10 fucking feet away from him during an interview and I heard him speak twice today. He wants a coalition and he set a standard for Green support of the next Democratic slate in 2006 and 2008. He wants to win and he's being a damn good third party politician. You should listen to him and stop spreading negativity all over the place.

I liked Cobb a great deal, I think he is a hero, and I won't waste my vote if we've got a real candidate who can win. From everything Cobb said today, explicitly, he wouldn't want me or you to waste our votes either.

[Pachamama]

30. "stop spreading negativity all over the place"?

Please don't be all self-righteous and tell me or anyone else how to feel or what and how often I can post on the DU...

I was a loyal Dem in all ways possible and the DNC, Kerry and folks loved my money...they love inviting me to there "events" and taking my checks...No more...and I am expressing myself...sorry you don't like hearing how the actions of the Dems is causing loyal longtime supporters to feel.

And yes, David Cobb is a great guy and I plan to give more money to him and the Greens than I have....I have no plans to "waste" my vote...but then again, I feel that the election for Kerry was perhaps a waste and if the Repukes have the election process rigged, they are wasted any way, aren't they?

[hinachan]

2. You articulated everything I'm feeling.

From Hillary Clinton on down, all these Demo-rats are just cowardly traitors. I hope they all lose to their Republican opponents in the next election(s), because they aren't voting in the people's best interests anyway...and it'd be justice if they were as unemployed as the rest of us are.

[RadicalMom]

12. I really don't think you want the Republicans to take EVERYTHING.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Take?

They've already taken everything.

Let's get real. The Repugs now are in control of the WH, the Congress and the Judiciary.

If you think that election reform is going to happen now, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

[leftchick]

33. Hello? The HAVE everything!

Kerry's big blunder was in not being Pro-active on Election Day! That day was for all the peanuts! That day he should have used the money for hiring people and lawyers for the polls in vulnerable places like Ohio and Fl, NM, NC!! People that knew wtf to look for!! He is NOT that clueless to not know what was in store for him.

And the repukes already HAVE everything. The House, Senate, Executive, Judiciary!! Did you see Delay yesterday?? Smug ain't the word for it! We Are Fucked! Time for me to leave the country with my young boys, who will NOT be cannon fodder for these insane neocons running this country!

:grr:

[Botany]

15. A list of shame

NAYs ---
Baucus (D-MT)
Biden (D-DE)have addy
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)have addy
Durbin (D-IL)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)have addy
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)have addy
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)have addy
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

[anarchy1999]

53. I was shocked and I am still trying to recover. What happened?

Where were Senators' Byrd, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Schumer, Dayton, at the very least? WTF happened on Thursday?

[dave502d]

3. Well said.

[goforit]

23. Here, here!!!.........True!

But a challange we must accept!!!

And we will overcome them.

[kodi]

4. they died a long time ago, you just weren't paying attention

i am so proud to live in a country were i have to right to starve in my old age.

[Radical Activist]

5. I see this as improvement

Four years ago there was far more evidence of fraud and it might have actually made a difference in the outcome of the election. What happened? Nothing.

At least year we made a fight. At least this year some people got up and spoke. This year the party did better.

[tom_paine]

22. Yeah at this rate, by 2100 we'll have free and fair elections

For Barracks Chief of 7A4 at the Ashcroft Memorial ReEducation and ReChristianization Camp out at the Sonora Desert.

[Pachamama]

25. LOL! Thanks...I needed that....

:hi:

How are you feeling Tom? You know from my posts that I have been a loyal Dem and supported Kerry even when many questioned him....

Today did it for me...actually, it was yesterday when I read Kerry's letter to supporters in my email...

I am no longer calling myself a DEMOCRAT - atleast not one represented by this DEM party....I'm an American who is a socially conscious Progressive...I'm worried about the environment, education, civil rights, woman's right to choose her reproductive options etc.

I'm officially registered now as a Green Party member...

[Child_Of_Isis]

6. Come to this thread and help us.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x258818


we want to get a one click going to all the Dem Senators who voted for shrub today.

[Lexingtonian]

7. Time will tell....

I'm quite sure that news of John Kerry's and the Democratic Party's demise is slightly exaggerate, to paraphrase Mark Twain.

We'll be happy when you come back.

[ejmw]

8. Don't give up hope yet.. Please.

Believe me, I know how you feel about spending so much time and effort on this election, and ending up being disappointed. I think there are a lot of us out there who feel the same way. But our period of mourning has to be almost over; otherwise, the GOP machine will take over. We can't be afraid to continue to fight. And believe me, the balance will swing the other way in the future. Despite all the talk of liberal vs. conservative, red vs. blue, and idealism vs. cynicism, I know that in the near future, we'll all see that we're not really all that unlike those who voted for the Republic Candidate. That is the principal misunderstanding that has been perpetuated throughout the campaign of 2004. Once the focus turns back to solving problems, we'll see that we all have a lot more in common than it appears to be when we're all too concerned about being right about overly inconsequential issues. And I think that time will come soon.

That is my hope.

[Chipper Chat]

14. You may suddenly see the bush-bubble burst when...

the Iraq troops death count reaches about 75 per day (not my wish of course). The clamor, even from "christians" will crescendo. Even Republican congressmen listen to their constituents.

[Pachamama]

20. I've been waiting for the "Bush Bubble" to burst for 4 years now..& after

watching the economy sink, trade deficit grow, deficit balloon, unemployment soar, education & social spendings cuts, uninsured americans soar, the environment more polluted, invasion of a country based on lies with the death of 100,000+ Iraqi civilians & 1000's of our soldiers dieing for Bush's lies, torture condoned & committed, civil liberties & our rights whittled away, good will of ally nations towards us squandered, largest terror attack in history....etc etc

The only "bubble bursting" I'm afraid at this point is going to be the mushroom cloud over one or more of our city's one day, either from a nation that this administration takes us to war against (aka N Korea, Iran) or a terrorist extremist pissed off enough by the Bush crusades across the Middle East, all in the name of Oil...

:grr:

[tom_paine]

24. I hope you're right, but I am with Pachamama in general on this one

The GOP Machine HAS taken over, the media, the Judiciary everything.

I don't believe things will turn back to solving problems. When things get bad that's what Free Nations do, like the Old USA during the Great Depression.

But Totalitarian Nations, such as Imperial Amerika is transitioning more fully into every day, donot do so. They scramble for the crumbs and the Leaders try to steal everythign they can and then the scapegoating begins.

Oh, it will come in some other Kinder and Gentler form when it comes, probably when the fiscal crisis perpetuated by Endless War and Endless Debt explodes as the baby Boomer retire.

Or maybe not. Considering times are quite good economically (compared to the Great Depression I mean, not the Last Days of the Old Republic and Clintonomics, to which the economy of the Empire looks like shit) it masks how truly nazi/Soviet/Roman-like e have become as a people.

The outpoouing of individual tsunami aid gives me a litle hope, but history teaches us all that is required of most people in Totalitarianism is to do nothing obey and accept.

But I so dearly want to be wrong an you to be right.

But I can't shake the feeling that is impossible for the pendulum to swing to the other side if the clock is broken.

[area51]

34. Welcome.

Welcome to DU, ejmw.


"Prosperity is just around the corner." -- Herbert Hoover
"The economy has turned a corner." -- GW Bush

Herbert Hoover = GW Bush

Neither man cared about the Depression their economic policies created.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi ejmw!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BeFree]

9. Yeah, mama

Know how you feel.

We got hit pretty bad. What we considered to be the right thing did not go down as it should. The heads of the party slipped and slid away from us just at the moment we needed them most to stay and fight. 'Tis sad.

But look what we've done... 'Twas historic, and we made it happen. In just 9 weeks we encouraged the encourageable to stand on the floor of the people's house and decry the undemocratic (s)election process.

Yeah, Kerry should have been there too. But he's history now, and the next president is taking note of our concerns and will ride our wave into the Whitehouse come 2009.

Gird thyself and don't let the pukelikans get you down. Many far more serious struggles have been won in time, and we will win this one as long as we stick together, united and concentrated.

Peace

[zmdem]

10. How did the Democrats fail

to support the constitution ?

Suppose congress had voted to disallow the Ohio electoral delegation, what then ? With neither candidate having a majority of the electoral vote, the House would have decided the issue with each state delegation getting one vote. Bush would still win.

This whole thing was an exercise in futility. Bush won the election. Elections are not fraudulent because one doesn't like the outcome.

[Pachamama]

16. They failed their oath to uphold the Constitution & the rights of voters

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the election in Ohio was dirty and not "regular" or "normal"...When the joint session of the House and Senate met today to certify the "Electoral College" vote, they are supposed to agree that the election in each of those states was "regular". The election in Ohio was a lot of things, except for clean. The Dems should have refused to certify the election of Ohio...constitutionally, this would have been the right thing to do. No, it wouldn't have changed things because it would have forced the House & Senate to vote and choose the President and VP & Bush would have won due to the majority, but it would have sent a powerful message that the Dems stand united (like Repukes) and that EVERY VOTE needs to be counted in America. It would have also shown party unity and let the GOP know that when in the future it comes to Social Security and other rights that they have a unified party and fight on their hands....

The Dems rolled over...I don't give a shit about what Clinton, Harkin, Lautenberg, Wyden or any of them said in support of voter rights and supporting the issue...at the end of the day, their "vote" or not even bothering to show to vote is all I needed to see...

This I don't blame on anyone but the Dems....the Repukes are laughing, calling us Conspiracy theorists and accusing of of being sore losers...no, we are just spineless cowards, except for the 33 Congress persons and one lone Senator Boxer who put their necks on the chopping block because they truly have integrity, honor and love for our country.

[zmdem]

46. They did not fail

Bush won Ohio. Sen. Kerry and the other Democrats are not stupid, nor did they roll over. The Republican candidate won the election this time. It's happened before and it will happen again.

FYI - In the case where no candidate gets a majority of the electoral college vote, the senate is not involved, only the house.

[Pachamama]

54. The Dems failed as a party & Bush only "won" OH because of the Electoral

vote, not because he "won" Ohio....I was a poll monitor on election day...where were you? I can say unequivacally that I witnessed things that tell me that this election was NOT CLEAN & FAIR to the voters of Ohio & the thousands and thousands of people either turned away because they were challenged, not on the "books", unable to wait for hours in pouring ICE RAIN etc

Bush didn't win this fairly, and they know it...and they don't want the American people to know this...

And your right that they will "win" in this maner again....that's the whole point...elections will continue to be unclean and not reflect the true will of the people in the future - not just in OH, but across the US..

PS: Thanks for your "civics" lesson...I'm fully aware of the final "vote" being referred to the House...but the SENATE needed to vote on the measure (as they did - thus the 1-74 vote with Boxer being the lone vote) and send it then back....House & Senate Dems Failed except for the Brave 34...The only 34 elected Representatives in the House/Senate with courage, integrity and true patriotism and care for our Constitution.

[zmdem]

72. I was in Oregon on election day

because that's where I live.

Even if there were "thousands and thousands" of voters who were unable to vote, for a variety of reasons, it doesn't add up to the 100,000+ margin Bush won by. That's why Sen. Kerry conceded.

Sen. Kerry is not stupid.

[InvisibleBallots]

59. Show us the ballots

Let's see the ballots from the touch screen machines.

[Patchuli]

17. Wrong on both counts

There was plenty of fraud, in more than Ohio. How do you explain
all the people who have substantiated it?

The objection was raised to have debates about how to stop election
fraud, not about Kerry or who 'won' which I don't believe Bush did.
I believe Bushco manufactured their 'win' just as they have done
3 elections now.

The problem remains however, regardless of who won, is why so much
went wrong. Any good American should care about the integrity of the vote
no matter what "outcome" they wanted.

[Deja Q]

19. I agree with you utterly.

The problem remains however, regardless of who won, is why so much
went wrong. Any good American should care about the integrity of the vote no matter what "outcome" they wanted.

Trouble is. Few of us are good Americans. When our side wins, we tell the other to like it or lump it. * himself asked Ohio to dump a recount, which just goes to show how much of a petty JOKE our country has become. :-(

[Chipper Chat]

38. Next joke: Blackwell announces his run for Congress.

And he will be elected - just like Kathryn (thanks, voters, for appreciating a sleazebag like me) Harris.

[Patchuli]

64. We have to learn to row this boat together

regardless of party, faith, whatever. A nation divided, etc. etc.
Bad Americans who only care about themselves and their
narrow minds need to realize they are not more important
than the rest of us.

Church and state must remain separate.

People need to butt out of the personal aspects of others'
lives. Civil rights must be upheld because regardless of what
the fascists want to think for their own convenience, being
tolerant, being kind and not being judgmental is what JESUS
would do! Phoney Christians bug the crap outta me. Committing
atrocities in His Name is even worse.

Progressives must be loud, louder, loudest!

[Pachamama]

21. What am I wrong on? That the Ohio election was unclean? That Dems

should have stood UNITED?

The vote today was on whether to certify Ohio's electoral vote or not. The reason to SUPPORT the vote to REJECT the Ohio Election & its Electoral votes is because it did not meet constitutional standards for the rights of voters.

I agree that Americans, ALL Americans should care about their democracy....this means GOP & Dems alike...and the problems are nationwide, not just Ohio, but the reality is that this election was determined by Ohio (just like Florida in 2000) and the number of irregularities, voter disenfranchisement & even exit poll results should have been enough to justify NOT certifying Ohio's election.

[zmdem]

47. Here's how I explain it

Democratic election officials in Democratic precincts and counties conspired to shift the vote to Bush. How else can I account for it ?

The objection was to challenge the validity of the Ohio electors. That is, to deny Bush a majority of the electoral vote and therefore throw the election into the house. You say the objection was to stop election fraud. How did the objection do that ? Forget about the fine speechs, the action was what it was, not something else.

The only thing that went wrong is that a majority of the voters voted for the Republican candidate, as they do from time to time.

[TankLV]

58. It's a foregone conclusion that we'll lose, so don't do anything.

Do I have your thoughts right?

Great solution.

We might as well all just lay down and slit our throats now.

Pathetic.

NOT!

[Deja Q]

18. Don't pull a Kerry on us. We are not dead yet.

All we need is an impetus, catalyst, figurehead, and the sheeple waking up to see beyond the drivel that the M$M doles out.

[Swamp Rat]

26. The failure of our Democratic leadership has left us with this:

[jdots]

29. They can't take our dream with thier greed.

I worked for Shirley and Jesse knowing they had no chance,but don't let that stop us fighting for justice no matter how much the odds have changedThe line about it being better to have loved and lost than never loved at all applys here.It isn't just our children who will live in this world of greedy lies but every child,adult and being on the planet.Don't blame Kerry or Gore blame the bad guys and lets bring them to justice because thats the dream that makes life worth living.Rove or some two bit blowhard on radio or t.v. can't change our souls,they can piss us off even machine gun us into a ditch but the need for freedom and justice lives thru fascism,ignorance,racism and any evil shit they can come up with.

[Hephaistos]

31. Why do so many DUers have a death wish?

If the Dems in Congress had all voted to object to the slate from Ohio, they would have set a clear precedent for 2008 and beyond, without accomplishing anything.

- Chimpy still would have been elected Preznit with the repug majority this year

- In 2008, if a Dem wins the presidential election but Congress is still in repug hands, all they would have to do is "follow the precedent set by the Democrats in 2004" (see also: Washington State) and elect a repug as President in Congress by rejecting the slate of electors from the decisive states.

I see absolutely no strategic advantage to any behavior other than what the Dems did yesterday.

If the choice comes down to setting the groundwork for permanent loss of the presidency and not upsetting the suicidal wing of the Democratic base, they made the right call.

[Disturbed]

35. Welcome to the Green Party.

If the million or so people that are real unhappy with the Dems would join maybe we could get a few Greens in Congress.

[Hephaistos]

37. Welcome to the Reform Party

Many disenchanted conservatives deserted the repugs and voted for the Reform Party in 1992. Net result: Jesse Ventura. Without those fools, the repugs would have held the presidency since 1980.

How encouraging that we have learned from their mistake.

[tom_paine]

39. Still thinking like your dealking with Americans, not Amerikans

As if political strategizing is going to do ANYTHING against a revolutionary cabal who does not respect the System.

Our Democrats are reprising the role of the 1933 German Social Democrats in their clueless befuddlement.

The simple truth is that with a Totalitarian Media, Judiciary, and uninspectable "voting" machines, polticial strategizing to regain power is as useful as it was in the 1934 Soviet Union or Germany.

Oh, it's not quite as obvious or "in your face" as in those places. It can't be because there are still too many people who believe in the Old America and must continually be decieved as to the nature of this new country.

Why did the Caesers maintain the fiction of an Imperial Senate, even after it was stripped of all but ceremonial power?

Keep living in the Old World. Because the last four years have shown that caution and a reluctance to take a chance and stand up have result is SUCH HUGE gains for the Democratic Party, hasn't it?

We have already lost the office of the Presidency permanently. The system has been gamed andthe media has been gamed and the Judiciary, which has proved somewhat resilient, is in the process of being "brought into line" in much the same way.

Keep living in the Old Republic. The longer you stay in denial, the worse it will be when you finally awake.

Read this and remember, Totalitarianism is ALWAYS tailored to the nation it assualts, be it Rome, Germany, Russia, cambodia, Chile or right here at home.

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

And thank God our Totalitarians are currently forced to proceed more slowly (thanks Founding Fathers for making the edifice so difficult and time-consuming to destroy) and ore Kindly and Gently, than those who have came before.

[Hephaistos]

41. Good points

I frequently find myself thinking along the same lines, particularly after surfing on Orcinus. However, I am not ready to give up on America quite yet.

What is your take on yesterday's events? Would a pointless 'revolt' by minority Dems have effectively stalled the progress of the fascist takeover? Was it a missed opportunity? For what?

What strategy would you recommend?

[jandrok]

42. You just asked the question that I would have asked.....

Where do we go from here? Are the dice now so loaded that Progressives of any stripe will never really have a chance? I'm not at all sold on that idea. I too have hope.

The pendulum swings. Social and political movements ebb and flow. There is a price for everything, nothing comes free or without consequences. If we're convinced that we've lost for good, then we have.

I don't much like that thought.

[tom_paine]

44. I am reminded of the old movie "the Last Starfighter"

"What do we do?"

"We die." (and boom goes the spacecraft into the asteroid)

To be quite honest, I don;t not believe there is ANY "wining" strategy now, that we have passed the tipping point.

Maybe something like what the Serbs did to Milosevic or the Ukrainians just did in defense of their voting rights.

But who the hell are we kidding, if they tried that in Amerika, the police would beat the shit of us, gas us, and if some poor bastard stood in front of a tank like that guy in Tiannamen Square, then that person would get much the same treatment as the Chinese guy who did it in 1989.

[Pachamama]

51. And when Gonzales is the AG enforcing those things, anyone protesting or

challenging them could easily find themselves designated "enemy combatants" or "insurgents"....and FEMA could start using their charter... :eyes:

Tom, sadly, in my heart I know you are right and the events that have been unleashed were like opening Pandora's Box...it's just a matter of time for it to manifest...

The reason I posted this thread is because I truly believe 1/6/05 was the turning point/tipping point. I believe if the Dems had "stood unified" and both the House & Senate Dems had supported the call to reject the Ohio electorate, it wouldn't have changed who was inaugurated 1/20, but it would have been the show of force from a small army with passion & conviction...we could have showed America an "alternative" to Bush's World...and even if we don't "win", the Democratic Party would stand for something....they failed this and now I'm afraid to say things will have to get so bad until people wake up. Sadly, it will be too late without "serious" consequences...hopefully not as serious as your Asteroid analogy, but I'm afraid not without something more serious...they know this is the direction things will ultimately are headed and its why they want guys like Kerik & Gonzales & Rumsfeld et al in place and our civil liberties limited....

[Hephaistos]

55. I strongly disagree with this point

I believe if the Dems had "stood unified" and both the House & Senate Dems had supported the call to reject the Ohio electorate, it wouldn't have changed who was inaugurated 1/20, but it would have been the show of force from a small army with passion & conviction

The media would have covered it as the last gasp of a pathetic bunch of Sore-Losermanns. Bet on it!

<rush_transcript>
Judy Woodruff: This is really kind of sad and pointless, isn't it? Haven't the Democrats gotten the message of 3 million popular vote defeat?
Wolf Blitzer: I believe what we are seeing is that the Michael Moore wing of the party has taken control.
Judy Woodruff: Let's turn to our panel to see what they think. Mr. William Bennett first, we'll get to Pat Buchanan's thoughts in a minute...

[Pachamama]

63. Most people believe it or not, could care less what the MSM would say...

How is that scenario any different from what they are doing now and have been doing for the last 4 years? Atleast none of them could have accused them of cowardness! What I and others care about is the "substance" and actions speak louder than words....the Dems "silence" was deafening....

Believe it or not, not all of America is a bunch of Meatheads and numbded and dumbded by the MSM...and at some point, when things have gotten bad enough, they will realize - "Wow - those Dems that "stood up" and were called Sore-losermanns were not afterall....

Instead, they will get to remember that none of them "walked the walk"...

I could care less what the political pundits say....I care about what the Dems do and did....and I think it was pathetic except for the brave and patriotic 34...

[NuttyFluffers]

69. the media would ALWAYS covered it as the last gasp of pathetic losers'

how often do you have to see it happen before you realize the media is *always* your enemy? it doesn't matter what you do, doesn't matter what strategy you choose, you are going to be reamed by the sycophantic mainstream media. deal with it, don't bother trying to outmaneuver it, just suck it up and speak truth to power with full gusto.

the vote was a message to the democrats' constituency, and the message was, "we still think we are playing the same old game, so we are gonna see if we can play a dodge, parry, thrust, dancing game." too bad that game has been over for years now. it is a bare-knuckled brawl, and there's no more room to evade the rusher. no more time for nuance, no time for talking from both sides of your mouth, no more time for any of that. this is straight up fascism and abandoning your supporters by saying you'll still play the tap dancing game. to think by dancing faster for the new masters you will survive is a classic last delusion of the soon to be killed. i will not stand ignobly to die with such a lot.

go ahead, go fight inside the party for change. let us know how successful you are.

[TankLV]

60. What make you think that this is exactly what they plan to do regardless

of Thursday's outcome?

Thanks alot. If they weren't thinking along these lines before, they certainly are NOW!

I predict: This is exactly what the repukes will do should the Dems ever win again (which I believe is highly doubtful from this vantage point).

[LeftHander]

36. I agree...Democratic Party is finished...

As a majority party...it will dwindle down until it is just a minor offshoot of the GOP...shit it already is for the majority of Democratic elected officials. You can count on a few hands the REAL progressives in the Democratic party qat a national level.

It will take some time but by 2010 the Democrats will begin losing house seats to Greens...

The GOP is going to run this country into the ground and what will be left over when millions more people are out of work, as war rages in the Middle East there will be a movement that will take over the local and state elected positions from the Democrats that have been found to be just as crooked as the lying rotten repukes.

Gary George in Wiscosnsin, Chuck Kavala and hosts of other state longtime Democrats are being exposed by the ruthless GOP smear machine. The results is honest progressives will eventually take there place and they won't be democrats. The GOP will rule but they will ultiamtely have a new adversary. One not afraid to call them on thier lies and cheating.

Yes the GOP will dominate...as they are right now. And nothing anyone can do will stop them for the time being. But they will fail. And when they do the progressives will still be their for social justice, equality, peace and sustainability.

I will still keep an eye on the Dems...but I based on the events post November 2 and McAullife still in the lead I am afraid it will be more of the same from the Democrats. Feeble attempts at having a spine and crumbling in the face of big corporate donations.

Waffling in the wind.

If it is one thing we know is true about America...it is that Americans can't stand for wishy washy politicians. They will pick someone who takes a stand even if they don't agree 100%.

And Americans are frightend easily. Fear is irrational and people do crazy things as a result. I knocked on doors this past election for Kerry and I've never seen so many frightened people. I swear they thought I was a terrorist or something. People were hiding behind doors and others slammed in my face. A few were welcoming even some of the bush suppoters...but most were fearful of someone at the door.

Big money saw to it that Kerry got the nomination. Nothing would of changed much had he been elected. It would of just been delayed slightly. The GOP would have railed against him for four years until he was driven from office.

Nope it is time for America to experience the pain of a totalitarian despotic government. The American people deserve it for being asleep and too comfortable for so long.

what is fact is that the liberal base of the party is pissed off and sick of being relegated to forums like DU.

So if it take a mass defection of the party base to make change occur then that is what it takes.

Let me ask you this....how many progressives who have attended any local Democratic party meetings have ever felt like they were welcome and part of any political group other than just being a "shut up and hand out these flyers" type worker bees?

Unless you are a rich moderate Democrat for the most part you are not listened to at all by the majority of the democratic party. There are exceptions and always will but they are getting far a few now.

The progressive wing of the party has been shit on enough by the rich ruling elite. Getting shit on by the GOP is bad enough and we come to expect that but now we are getting shit on by our own and that is too much to take any more.

[comsymp]

40. Powerfully articulated

and, I'm sorry to say, spot on.

[klyon]

45. Well it is sad to say, but it looks like democracy is dead

Without real elections what is the point. This house of cards must fall of it's own weight. Dems should have stopped this paperless ballot situation long ago. They were warned.
I voted for the Dems in the last 2 pres. elections when my beliefs were in complete agreement with the Green platform. I did it for the what I thought was the greater good, no more if Dems want my vote they must come to me. I am not moving right again.

KL

PS I have supported the Dems all my life starting with Carter.

[flaminbats]

48. this party ain't really dead..why not stick around?

[Frangible]

49. They may have won the battle, but the war rages on

Don't give up. Here in my home "red" state of Montana, we now have a democratic majority in the state congress and a democrat governor. If it's possible here, it's possible anywhere.

Republican control is a very bad thing for our country. The democratic party is down, but not out. We just need to pull ourselves up by the next election. Keep fighting, never give up, and never surrender.

[Solly Mack]

50. Democracy was "raptured" on 12.12.2000. We got left behind.

[Deja Q]

56. Raptured? Or raped?

:shrug:

[Solly Mack]

62. Well, it's gone and I can't find it

[anarchy1999]

52. Thank you for saying it all so well. Powerful and should be sent round

the world.

[TheEconomist]

57. With that attitude....

.... we are dead. We need less defeatists and more activists. Besides, I thought we were a Constitutional Republic rather than a Democracy. When we call ourselves a Democracy it makes us look uneducated.

[Pachamama]

65. What Attitude? That I'm a realist and pissed at a bunch of sellouts that

either didn't bother showing or didn't stand up for what was right? Maybe I had a little more faith in the Democratic party and for what it stands and I'm a little pissed off and have every right to be...and I know I'm not alone....today I went to a party (after the local district Dem meeting to vote for the delegates) where there were many people who are quite active and financially involved in the Democratic party and I can tell you that they are all pissed and feeling the way I am....

So, what do you propose I and others do to be any more fucking active than we already have been? Let's See - I did the following things, which I guess just WEREN'T ENOUGH:

1) Went to 5 swing states WITH my kids campaigning and volunteering for Kerry;

2) Wrote 1000's of letters and "fedexed" them to mailing lists of single mom's in swing states (at my own expense);

3) Donated much money and time to good organizations doing work to get out the vote; (Even founded a few);

4) Raised money for the DNC, GELAC fund and Kerry by hosting fundraisers and attending so many and going through my contact lists of people with money to spare;

5) Was a poll monitor with legal teams on election day in Ohio and stood in the pouring ICE rain in between running to a mini-van where my infant was in order to nurse her;

You think I'm a defeatist and need to be more of an Activist? Huh?

Sorry, but if you had been on this board a little longer and knew who I am and bothered to follow work that some of us have done, you'd know I am a pretty active person and not just sitting here on DU complaining...I walk the talk, I am active and unfortunate for me and the rest of America, we have a party called the Democrats that forgot about how to do that. But you seem to think I'm such a Defeatist - so why don't you impart to us your wisdom of not only how we got here, why the Dems did what they did, but what they should and we should all be doing moving forward? Instead of calling me a Defeatist and making "critiques" of those on a board you haven't been on long, how about some feedback about what YOU did and how you feel and what YOU are doing that is somehow so much better? :eyes: And why you think the Dems and Kerry are great and did the right thing on Thursday...oh and tell us all why you think I'm wrong in my statement about 1/6/05 marking the end of our Democracy as we know it and why you think "Democracy" is alive and well in America and that the Dem Party still has a pulse (or knows the pulse of its own party and our state of condition)...I'm sure it will be enlightening...I guess all of us DUers are just such a defeatist group, we need some new blood to tell us how we can do it right and all that is wrong is our "defeatist" attitude....

Constitutional Republic vs a Democracy? You think that we have either right now?

[TheEconomist]

67. Glad to hear of your service....

... but now what?

I dont think Kerry is great. Far from it, in fact.
The Democrats are just doing what they think they need to to get re-elected. They are becoming more centrist. That is why they did what they did on Tuesday.

[Placebo]

61. Well hopefully your children will be old enough...

to know you're wrong, and tell you so.

[Pachamama]

66. I would like to have that be the case...this is not a situation that I am

very happy to have to state when I posted this...sure, its my feelings, I was expressing these things and I really believe them. The thing that is saddest and speaks volumes to those who know me, is that I am very much the optimist in the way I lead my life and still up until Thursday, I believed in the Democratic Party and in Kerry. I truly believed for the last two months that there was going to be a bolder statement from the Democratic body and even Kerry himself. I'm so sad and sickened it just was too much for me. I hope I'm proven wrong on this... I really do...because why would I want to be "right" about the fact that our country and its democracy is going to hell....but for me personally, I'm tired....and I don't want to muster up any more energy and waste it on a group of people that frankly I'm not sure have earned or deserved that kind of loyalty and support and energy from people like myself and the millions of others that gave their blood for them. The least they could have done on Thursday was stand up for all of us - and all the people in OH and across the US who on election day didn't get to have their voices heard.

[Dan]

68. Question...and thought

Since the Democrats in Congress are not fighting for anything except keeping their seats....I was wondering:

Why not join the GOP and corrupt the hell out of it. I mean, they hate everything, so why shouldn't everyone just join them, and then corrupt them from the inside. Disrupt their meetings by asking intelligent questions that require answers; questioning when we discuss Christian rights - should that also mean that we outlaw other religious rights, and if not - why not? If they really believe what the neocons are selling, then lets force them to put it on display....

just a thought?

[Swamp Rat]

70. Have fun. Bring lots of K-Y jelly.

The GOP is chock full of sexually deviant, plutocratic miscreant-cannibals. If you love S&M that makes the Marquee de Sade look like Mr. Rogers, join the Republican Party.

[Pachamama]

71. Not such a crazy idea...besides, pretty soon we may all need to be

"registered" Republicans because being a non-member might be like weaeing a yellow star on your arm....

ie. if your a registered Dem, the IRS might give you special treatment or your job suddenely disappears...

But the thought has occurred to me to be a purposeful disruptor of GOP politics...