I have joined the Democratic Socialists of America this past week.

[Cascadian]

I had been pondering this decision for months now. I was going through with this if Bush got his second term and sure enough he did. I feel I can no longer support a party that is not willing to stand up against the Rethugs and champion it's own principles. I am fed up with seeing the Democrats "roll over" everytime the Bushites bark. In future elections, I will no longer vote for mushy-middle DLC Democrats even if it means a neocon gets elected. I am going to vote on my principles and not somebody who plays the center again. From now on, it's going to be for a Democrat (like McDermott, Dean, Kucinich, etc...) who is passionate, progressive, and unafraid to take on the Neocon scurge. I am not going to vote for a Kerry or a Clinton again. I am not going to play the Republican Lite card again.

The other reason to join the Democratic Socialists is to help build a concensus among those politically like-minded people. The DSA-USA does not have a party yet. There is a strong need to unite with disenchanted lefty Democrats, Greens, and others to help create a viable, left of center national third party to go up again the two-party system. This can be done only if we start running for local and state positions and then federal offices later on. If we cannot come to build a party, then a united coalition will do for the time being. But there needs to be a "left wedge" in this country to go up against the Neocons, especially if the Democrats cannot do the job.

The only way I will join with the Democrats is when they start standing up for themselves and us again, but sadly I do not see this happening right now. Fundamental changes and a shift back to progressivism are the ONLY way the Democrats are going to make any comeback. If the last two elections did not make you wake up to the reality that the Republican Lite act does not work, then you are in denial.

Here is the link to the website of the DSA-USA...

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html






John

[Radical Activist]

1. Nothing with the name socialist

will win a state or major local election anywhere in America. I appreciate your reasons for joining and the thought behind it but I can't say that is the party I would choose.

[BiggJawn]

3. Well, then, it's a double-whammy, ain't it?

Because everything with the name "Democratic" sure got it's ReTHUG-Light ass kicked in the big show.

Hell, I'm thinking about becoming a card-carrying Communist.

[Mika]

7. Just do it!

http://www.iww.org/

[Radical Activist]

13. IWW is a fun group

It seems more based in nostalgia though. They don't have a very good organizing record these days.

[0007]

32. Tell me what you know!

[InvisibleBallots]

53. what? the IWW is liberating gay bar janitors and Berkeley recyclers to

this day!

[sherilocks]

62. My grandfather was a wobbly organizer

but that was back in the 1930s. I didn't even know they were still around. When I was a kid he proudly showed me an envelope with a few of Joe Hill's ashes.

[Just Me]

80. I'll bet he'd advise a different name like "THE PEOPLE'S ADVOCATE",...

He would likely inform you that the fascists and corporatists and power-mongering ANTI-DEMOCRACY fellows have villified words like "socialism" and "liberal" and "labor" to the point that we have to beat them at their own game and name our pro-democracy, pro-people, pro-justice (both economic and social) as something beyond the bedeviled by the devilish.

[Neanderthal]

86. What’s in a name?

That which we call a rose by any other name would smell.....

[tomorrowsashes]

49. IWW isn't communist, it's syndicalist

The IWW isn't communist, it's syndicalist. Most of the founding members of the group were anarchists, who favored union control of social functions, as opposed to government.

Sorry, it just seems like it's a trend for communists to claim credit for the work of anarchists, whether it be establishing a union, or organizing a protest.

[sherilocks]

63. My grandfather, a Wobbly, was not an anarchist

he just believed in worker's rights and the right to organize. BTW, he and my grandmother fought all the time because she was a socialist and they never agreed on anything political.

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. Tell that to Ken Salazar

A DLC Democrat who took away a GOP senate seat in a state that Bush won.

[Telly Savalas]

59. 44 Senators, 200 Representatives...

and numerous other candidates at the state and local level.

Obviously we can and must improve on this, but we're doing a hell of a lot better than any party with the word "socialist" in its name.

[Wabbajack]

84. 201 Representatives!!

[Cascadian]

4. The word "socialist" can be dropped.

There must be a need to reach out to the working and lower classes of this country without scaring them. Look at the NDP in Canada. They are Democratic Socialists and the third party in that country. They do not advertize themselves as "socialist" hearsay. The party could be called something other than "socialist". I have not forgotten that this party or coalition would need different packaging definately.

John

[Radical Activist]

11. That might be a good idea

I really wish America wasn't rigged to keep out third parties. It would do the nation a lot of good to have them be strong.

[InvisibleBallots]

54. The word socialist can be reclaimed

now that the Socialist EU is kicking our ass economically, and the rich Euros are strutting around in BMWs and designer clothes while Americans are outsourcing our jobs to Communist China, I say, give me some of that EU socialism.

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. I like the word socialist, myself. Populist too. Because it's all

about the PEOPLE for me. ;)

------------------------------------------------------------
Help save our country one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

[Chicago Democrat]

6. I don't think its a Political Party

I agree about the word "socialist" is anathema in the USA for obvious historic reasons. There is no doubt, however, that we DO have a Socialist party in the USA, its called the Democratic Party! Roosevelt invented Social Security. Johnson gave us Medicare and Civil Rights. Democrats fought for the progressive income tax!

So its something we just have to be more creative when talking about. Words like "progressive" or "populist" help but we need more!

[Cascadian]

9. We have to keep away from certain words...

like "people's" or "worker's". The righties would spin it to related to communism and we would not want that. I like what the Canadians did with calling their left of center party "New Democrats". We could even call our party the "New Democratic Party/USA" or "American Labor Party" or get really patriotic...."The Patriot Party". I agree. The word "socialist" has gotten such a bad reputation in this country so that's a moot point.


John

[SemperEadem]

23. even though the rw is more communistic in their outlook and approach

than the socialists could ever be...

the media is the state

your rights are being eroded

your body belongs to us to do with what we want and you will not complain

you will adhere to one xtian religion, which flavor? still undecided

you will support the growth of the wealthy class and never utter a word of complaint that you're being left out.

you are with us or so help us gawd we will crush you under our boot.




sounds a bit like communism to me

[InvisibleBallots]

64. That strategy is obviously not working now is it?

We ran and hid from the "socialist" label - all the while American still love Social Security.

We can call ourselves the Uber-Capitalism Ayn Rand Party and they will still call us "Communist" - meanwhile, Republican Walmart and the Chinese Communist Party are best friends.

When they call us Socialist I'll call them a Communist.

[Radical Activist]

10. Roosevelt needed a little push to create social security

from Huey Long and the socialists who came up with it.

I would agree that there are certain socialist elements within the Democratic Party even if the party as a whole is very far from that. I choose to remain a Democrat because I think its an easier platform to advocate ideas that are more liberal than most Democratic leaders accept right now.

[Cascadian]

14. FDR's Democratic Party no longer exists.

I come from a long line of Democrats in my family. My grandmother was a staunch FDR/Truman Demo. Unfortunately, that party has been terribly marginalized and has shifted closer to what the used to be the centrist Republicans. The only person who could have pulled this DLC act off was Clinton and face it. He ain't coming back! I hope more Democrats do get off their butts and take their party back from the Republican Lite types. Otherwise the Democratic Party will be a token opposition party.



John

[Radical Activist]

20. The only Democrat running for President who called himself a FDR Dem

was Dennis Kucinich. And he's considered the extreme left winger. You are absolutely correct.

[IrateCitizen]

36. The Democratic Party is a big business party

We don't have a "socialist" party here in the US. Our political debate is largely defined between the far-right (Republicans) and center-right (Democrats).

In his book, In the Eagle's Shadow, Mark Hertsgaard talks of a discussion he had with a Dutch businessman. The Dutchman had recently voted for the far-right candidate in the recent election in the Netherlands, because he stood for less business regulation. This same Dutchman was also hoping Al Gore would be elected US President. When Hertsgaard asked him to explain, the businessman said that the Democrats were further to the right than ANY of the political parties in Holland.

Furthermore, of all the things you mention above, only the comment regarding FDR and social security is true. LBJ, while he demonstrated political courage, did not "give" civil rights -- such a statement is a direct insult to all those who bled and died in that fight. Like most things, the advances you mention were fought for, mostly by "ordinary folks" -- and then only championed by politicians when the ordinary folks had brought those causes to a point at which they were politically viable.

[bobbieinok]

39. I think there were socialist mayors, etc in OK and IA in the 20s-30s

[Radical Activist]

47. Cleveland once had a socialist mayor

Actually there were a number of socialists elected during that time period. My statement only applies to this time period.

The more I research the more I realize that the reason America doesn't have a strong socialist party is that the US government and corporate interests did a great deal of work to destroy the socialist movement for most of the 20th century. They jailed them for opposing WW1, sent the Klan after them in the south, the police always kept down their demonstrations, the red scare and J. Edgar Hoover took it from there. If it had been left up to the people we would probably have socialists in major offices.

They use different methods today, but basically the socialist perspective has been driven out to the point that it isn't seriously discussed or considered.

[Cascadian]

51. I can name two more people who were Socialist mayors.

Before he became a Congressman, Bernie Sanders was the Mayor of Burlington Vermont from 1981 to 1989. Years before that, Frank Ziedler was Mayor of Milwaukee from 1948 to 1960.


John

[Cascadian]

48. The NDP in Canada has some great ideas.

http://www.ndp.ca

They are the "lefty" party in Canada and you rarely ever hear them mention the words "socialist" or "socialism". If we do ever get a third party going in this country, then we should look to Canada's New Democratic Party as inspiration.




John

[InvisibleBallots]

56. I wish they would open a branch down here

I agree, NDP seems to have it going on. It's a different system down here obviously but I would welcome their advice and help.

[GreenArrow]

8. give the current fascists enough time

and Socialism is going to start looking pretty good.

[Nadienne]

31. That would be nice,

but as you don't hear the mainstream media calling the fascists for what they are (and indeed they are fascists), and as "socialism" is used by the mainstream media to mean giving more to the government - more money and more authority; for instance "Socialised medicine" - the concept of giving more power to the citizens, to the governed, might do better if it was called by a different name...

[IrateCitizen]

34. Please see: US Representative Bernie Sanders

Bernie is a self-described Democratic Socialist, and it hasn't seemed to hurt his chances in the Democratic People's Republic of Vermont for the past 10 years.

[Radical Activist]

38. What party does he belong to?

He's and independent. Even the one socialist in Congress doesn't officially call himself a socialist on the ballot. Perhaps he agrees with me.

[Darranar]

44. Major Owens, a Democratic representative from New York, is a member. n/t

[Radical Activist]

45. He's a Democrat

Again, he doesn't use the term socialist on the ballot. Sounds like he knows he would have a hard time get elected if he did.

[Darranar]

42. It's not a political party, it's an organization. n/t

[WI_DEM]

2. Congratulations for standing up for your principles

I've been a Democrat all my life and will remain one and try to reform the party from within. But I simply can't blame someone like you who takes this step. The National Democratic party needs to wake up.

[bloom]

30. From the Democratic-Socialist's site... they support progressive Democrats

Q Aren’t you a party that’s in competition with the Democratic Party for votes and support?

No, we are not a separate party. Like our friends and allies in the feminist, labor, civil rights, religious, and community organizing movements, many of us have been active in the Democratic Party. We work with those movements to strengthen the party’s left wing, represented by the Congressional Progressive Caucus. The process and structure of American elections seriously hurts third party efforts. Winner-take-all elections instead of proportional representation, rigorous party qualification requirements that vary from state to state, a presidential instead of a parliamentary system, and the two-party monopoly on political power have doomed third party efforts. Maybe sometime in the future, in coalition with our allies, an alternative national party will be viable. For now, we will continue to support progressives who have a real chance at winning elections, which usually means left-wing Democrats.

[spooked911]

5. Good luck to you! I am tempted highly to do the same.

I worry the democratic party is almost completely corrupt and too steeped in dirty government secrets.

We need some fresh air.

[Bouncy Ball]

12. I'm tempted, I tell ya.

I'm SORELY tempted and I never thought I'd say that.

I think if Dean suddenly said he'd be with a third party and that ALL the third parties should unite (yeah, Greens, Constitution party, even the Libertarians, everyone) hell, I'd hit that.

Imagine if all the disaffected Dems joined up with all the other third parties in ONE party and then started running candidates in every state, REALLY grassroots with a TON of grassroots financial support.

[Cascadian]

15. The big task to get everybody to set aside their petty differences.

We all need to come together and do this. The time to unite against this regime is NOW!



John

[Bouncy Ball]

16. I agree.

And to be honest, I feel the Dems have gotten in bed with big corporations too much, too.

Dean really knows how to fire up the grassroots and he could do it, too.

Can you imagine? (Makes me think of the John Lennon song...)

[Rockerdem]

17. Im not sure that Dean would ever leave

I think hes very close to acquiring power in the Party that hes in right now. But for some reason, we have been spinning our wheels wasting energy on scattered causes. Now that the election is, for all intents and purposes, surrendered, we should be concentrating on vocally exerting our grassroots power. Its a dead period now politically, and is ripe for a blitzkrieg on the DNC. Running away is going in the wrong direction. We should be attacking and seizing the infrastructure. If we did that, the Greens and all three Socialists would return in a heartbeat. And it would make a great media event, and scare the beJesus out of the Roveiacs.

[Bouncy Ball]

18. See I agree with that, too.

I JUST don't see the DNC changing! I really hope you are right, though. SOMETHING has to change.

[Rockerdem]

21. There are always dead times in the political calendar

One of them is now. We could be making headlines with a DNC coup at the moment. We would get wall to wall coverage because Scott Peterson is done and America yawns at deaths of brown people overseas.

This period is like August when the Swift vets commanded all the attention undeservedly. They did because there was nothing else that provides tension that TV craves. It's also like those times at basketball games where everything is quiet, and one aggressive loudmouth can make his point for everyone to hear. Carpe diem.

[More Than A Feeling]

24. From what I have heard, the constitution party

would be even scarier than the republicans, if such a thing is possible. These are the people who were looking into Roy Moore for President, are they not?

[Bouncy Ball]

25. Oh GEEZ

if that's true, forget that. Yuck.

[mandyky]

26. The CP and the Libertarians are righties

like the GOP. When it comes to economics the Libs are terrible about taxes, and the CP sound like Judge Moore (Alabama, 10 Commandments).

[IStriker]

35. Libertarians are NOT righties...

They are very left on some things (drugs, WOD, open borders) and very right on others (taxes, etc.)

[InvisibleBallots]

66. Libertarians are right-wingers

"Open borders" is NOT left wing. Being against the WOD is as conservative as it is liberal. Libertarians are libertine fascists.

[serryjw]

19. You could call the party ....KA-KA!

I don't care BUT I want the party of FDR back. It is not coming back with the name democrat any time soon. I joined the Green party 2 weeks ago for the same reason. I will change my party affiliation on 1/20 to make a statement and send a photo copy to the new DNC chair...maybe he will get the message. If millions did the saem maybe someone would listen. REMEMBER, by 2008 we will lose anotehr 7% of the FDR dems...They are all dying. Either WE become the party or republican lite does.

[rhite5]

22. I have already announced my intention of leaving....

the Democratic Party. I will resign my office in the party and become an Independent (in Oregon, that's "Non-Affiliated").
First, however, I am waiting to see developments over the next couple of weeks.

This is a big move for me. I have been a Democrat for about 50 years.

I support any movement toward a multi-party structure in this country. When Rs and Ds are the only thing that counts in elections and in the organization of the legislative branch of government, the whole thing feeds into that "us vs them" mentality and does not permit open dialog with multiple ideas on multiple issues. Open dialog is very important to me.

The Green Party comes closest to my philosophy and so does International Socialism.

I am glad to hear I am not the only one who is taking this step.

[davsand]

27. There is a schizophrenia for me.

I am an active member of my local Dem party--have been for a long time. I am also someone who tends to lean DSA on most issues. The only saving grace for me is that my local county party tends to be extremely progressive, and as a result I don't find a lot of conflict between the two most of the time.

On a national level, I loathe and despise a lot of what I see going on in the Dem party. The DNC has not seen one cent of my money for several years and I will continue to refuse to contribute to them as long as they represent things I don't agree with.

I am frustrated and heartbroken at what we are dealing with right now in this country, but I blame the Dem party as a whole, not just the leadership. It is the entire Dem party--nationally--voting in the primaries. It isn't McCauliffe or Donna Brazil or any of the DLC folks selecting our candidates, it is the party.

Like any primary, I guess it is a matter of pulling my socks up and moving on after the votes are counted, but damn, this has been difficult to get past...

I have always tried to be practical in my politics. I try and look at candidates objectively and with an eye to "elect-ability." I have tried to be a good party person. I have always supported the idea of working for change from within. I've done all the stuff you are supposed to do--including working the full ticket even when I disagreed with some of the candidates--but I feel that the party nationally has not represented ME for a long time.

The big issue for me, however, is I really honestly think that third party (or even fourth or fifth party) candidates are not really viable. We have a two party system in this country and the laws are set up to protect that. At this point in time abandoning the Dem party is, essentially, an act of protest and potentially a waste of my votes and energy.

I don't envy any of us with this decision.


Laura

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. I'm a socialist switching from Dem to Green.

I can no longer support (after 39 years) the Democratic Party or it's candidates who have become little more than a token, in-house, "opposition" that only serves the purpose of giving a very thin veneer of this country being a democracy.

As long as the bosses of the DLC/DNC can take our votes for granted they will never change.

[AlbizuX]

57. me too...

I voted Nader in 2000 because he represented the Greens...I voted Kerry this year to beat Bush...next time, it's Green again.

[Solon]

29. This may be no better time to leave the Democrats, or to join others...

I believe we are at a crossroads in history. With an Extremely Radical Reactionary Government in the United States, as well as being the preeminent power in the world at this time. We may be in a time, similar to the Great Depression+Guilded Age, where people may, after a time, realize they have been had by Corporations and their subjects in Government. It may be the "Radicals" on the other side of the spectrum that will change history. I applaud your decision, and I myself am thinking of doing the same thing. In fact, I'm thinking of going further than that, maybe I can find a way to organize a local for them, in my area they have none, the closest is Chicago. With a war that will not end under this administration, and the further Polarization of the American Populace, perhaps, just perhaps, we should create a new "Third Way". If anything, this could be the time to cause the Democratic Party to stand up on its principles, the principles of FDR and Harry S. Truman.

[Nadienne]

33. Well...

I've considered such a switch myself. I've been trying to inform people around me about Marx and what he had to say about workers and owners of capital. Some of the people around me thought, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we gotta defeat the Republicans, and the only way to do it is by sticking with the Democrats."

Well, it didn't work, did it? Bush is still in office. Even worse, the Democratic Party has given up on such "socialistic" ideas as Universal Health Care. Now it seems as though we are only a party of "anti-Republicans".

There's a saying: "Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything." Well, we're falling.

Btw:

:yourock:

Good for you, for sticking to your principles.

[mandyky]

37. I am waiting to see if Dean gets DNC Chair

and then I may join you. Please keep us informed on things we can do to help this group / party. I noticed Cornell West was an honorary chairman, so I am sure things will be lively, at least. ;)

[InvisibleBallots]

76. if Dean doesn't get DNC Chair, I hope everyone boycotts the Dems

and only gives money to DFA/PFA and the other related groups.

[hfojvt]

40. The DSA is a good group to join

but like another said, their push is not the creation of a third party, but it is trying to strengthen the left wing of the Democratic Party.
Personally, I still think it was a third party (Nader) who put us in this position. I am sure that if enough Democrats can be defeated to create a filibuster-proof majority of Republicans in the Senate that will motivate the remaining Democrats to fight like hell. :eyes:
A fringe group that represents 7-10% of the electorate will be much more effective than a group that represents 48%+

[LostinVA]

43. Congrats! I did last month!

After years of thinking about it. I got my card in the mail last week, so I am now an official card-carrying Pinko. Yay!

[OxQQme]

46. Ecotopians chose "Survivalists"

as the name of the newly founded party.
Reviews of the bood 'Ecotopia' by Ernest Callenbach. Published in 1975.
<snip>
Not Man Apart
Nearly every sentence offers yet another concretely sensible proposal, giving the book substantial density. . . . As a first primer for how to get it together as a stable-state humanitarian society, it is the best book I've seen yet.--This text refers to the Paperback edition.

"Callenbach gives us a vivid, comprehensive, positive vision of an ecologically sustainable world. essential reading for all who care about the earth's future."--Fritjof Capra, author of the Tao Of Physics and the Tuming Point.

"A classic of earth consciousness."--Denis Hayes, Earth Day.

Ecotopia was founded when northern California, Oregon, and Washington seceded from the Union to create a "stable-state" ecosystem: the perfect balance between human beings and the environment. Now, twenty years later, the isolated, mysterious Ecotopia welcomes its first officially sanctioned American visitor: New York Times-Post reporter Will Weston. Like a modern Gulliver, the skeptical Weston is by turns impressed, horrified, and overwhelmed by Ecotopia's strange practices: employee ownership of farms and businesses, the twenty-hour work week, the fanatical elimination of pollution, "mini-cities" that defeat overcrowding, devotion to trees bordering on worship, a woman-dominated government.

[justiceischeap]

50. How about these for new party names

The Truman Party
The Roosevelt Party


The Correction

[ChiciB1]

52. While I Won't Defect....

England has come a long way and I hear they have a party that's more to the left than the Labor Party. I think it's called Democratic Leftists and they have really made a lot of headway lately. But then they also still have the Torries too!

Different type of Government and it seems to be more accepting of different Parties! Gee, isn't that why we left???

I'm not really sure about the name, but they have made so much headway because of their stance Against The War In Iraq! But their Media is much more open-minded too. Most of the information "pegging" Boy King came out of the English Media BEFORE the War and BEFORE the Election!

Better stop now before I decide I want to go back??????

[Cascadian]

60. You mean the Liberal Democratic Party in Britain?

That's what they are called. They used to be the official "centrist" party in the U.K. until Blair ruined Labour. Here is their website...

http://www.libdems.org.uk/


John

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JanMichael]

61. Why the DSA instead of the SPUSA?

Just curious.

[Cascadian]

77. I joined DSA as a first step.

I have not ruled out joining the SPUSA either. The thing about the DSA is that they are a member of the Socialist International. The worldwide democratic socialist organization. The NDP in Canada and Spain's Socialist Party are a part of the SI. I also agree with a lot of their view and their vision of America to a point. I have not totally abandoned the Democratic Party but I am not going to go along with supporting Republican Lite candidates. If the Democratic Party keeps carrying on the way they have been, it will be harder for me to support them.

If the DLC-Republican Lite types get the upper hand then there will definately be a need for all who are left-of-center to unite and create a third party. I am talking about those disillusioned lefty Democrats, Socialists, Social Democrats, Democratic Socialists, Greens, Labor Party supporters or whoever to finally set aside all their differences and build a united third party or coalition to take on the two-parties.

This year,all will be revealed on where the Democratic Party is going to go. If they chose the "play it safe at the center or center-right", then it's game over. All of the lefty, liberal Democrats should just leave the party and join the rest of us to start a new political party. If the liberals, lefties, progressives take control of the DNC, then I am willing to give it a chance and other people should also.

Once again, my move to join the DSA is just a first step towards helping building a larger progressive movement in the country.


John

[TheEconomist]

65. Welcome!

As a Professor of Economics, I found this party most comparable to my own Economic beliefs and political leanings. I have been supporting it over a year now.

[cleofus1]

67. buh bye

The republicans just gained another yard in the game...what a fucking bunch of losers. The repubs know they have to stick together in order to win...why can't we figure it out? fucking losers...

[TheEconomist]

68. I think you misunderstand

Just because he joined DSA does not mean that he will not vote for, nor support, the Democrats. I support DSA but not at the expense of other Democrats.

[cleofus1]

71. sorry

I'm not as upset as I "sound"...but I keep reading threads about about how fucked up democrats are and how people are switching parties to greenie or super ultra liberal this or that...the hard lesson of playing to win is that we cannot fragment. we have to stick together and work as a team...if you don't like the candidates...then run for office yourself...maybe this particular person and yourself will still vote dem...but many here posting say they will not...that is something i do not misundertand...those people who bash the Clinton's and other moderates are not strengthening their positions...they're weakening the party.

[TheEconomist]

72. I dont think he was mocking Dems...

Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps he is pushing for change in the party faithful or some revolution? I dont know, just speculating. I like the DSA because they are very progressive and socially responsible, but it doesnt mean Im going to support them in lieu of the Dem party.

[Cascadian]

74. You're right. I am not mocking Demos.

I am simply disgusted with the fact that Democrats have lost ground and won't stand up to fight and call b.s. on the Neocons and their twisted agenda. It's as simple as that. Unless the Democratic Party makes some changes in their strategy and leadership, then they will keep losing ground and will become a footnote in history. It kills me to see people still putting up with the Democratic leaders' inaction and indifference to what is happening. It is killing the party. Time to wake up!

John

[Solon]

73. They are NOT a separate Political party...

They do NOT field candidates of their own, and have been supporting the left wing of the Democratic party for about 80 years. I don't see how that would weaken the party.

[Cascadian]

78. Exactly.

I am not going to lie and say that I am satisfied with the direction the Dems are heading. I will continue to support Democratic Party candidates, however, I will not throw my support to any that compromise any of the party's principles or is too meek to fight back against the neocons. I am fed up with the indfference.


John

[American Tragedy]

69. I don't know of any political party that suits me

I consider myself a progressive libertarian. I believe in a basic safety net and regulations to curb the excesses of capitalism, but other than that I tend to support vastly diminished influence of government in people's lives.

[BenZona]

70. I'm proud to be a Democrat,

and am looking forward to fighting for the future, and not bemoaning the past.

[Cascadian]

75. Then you better start fighting harder.

Your leaders are letting you down and if the Democrats are going to have any remote chance then people are going to have to start getting "down and dirty" with the neocons. New leadership in the DNC (Think Howard Dean!) is desparately needed. Also, cut off the influence of the DLC. They are a liability and is no effective as a group.


John

[ngant17]

81. lots of left/progressives outside the Dem. Party

When you start looking for leftwing organizations in the US, you tend to be innunduated with options.

It's hard for me to keep up with all of them.

Some that come to mind:

Committees of Correspondence
http://www.cc-ds.org/

New Unionist Party

Communist Party USA

Deleonist party

Socialist, Socialist Democrats, Marxist, ect, ect.

New ones seem to come up every year.

It's good to think outside the box. It's a sign of intelligence.

[genius]

79. I can understand how you feel I'm pretty angry myself.

People like Dennis Kucinich give me hope. We got through to Barbara so maybe we can take over the Democratic Party. I'm going to stick around and see if I can kick these creeps who have stolen our party out. In the next week, I'm going to find out whether my hopes have any basis.

[Disturbed]

82. Welcome to the Green Party

Socialists and Communists believe that the Capitalist System needs to be abolished and replaced with a socialist system. The Green Party is not advocating that overthrow yet. They still feel that Capitalism can be reformed. Capitalists do not give up power. Power is in the hands of the masses if the masses take it and use it, which rarely has ever happened. The Dem Party has been nuetered by the Dem leaders complicit with Rethug power grab and sharing with Multi-Corps. Nadar's tactics may not be approved of but his message is surely spot on. Instead of merely castigating him, it would be educational to actually go to his Web page and read what he says. The Green Pary is the best alternative for progressive Dems in my view.

[Cascadian]

85. I would not want to see capitalism dismantled, just modified.

I believe in a free enterprise system but I do not want this to be a profits before people situation like it is now. This is Social Darwinism in it's sickest and purist form. There needs to be what I like to call "capitalism with a human face". Where everybody benefits and works together to get profits and to get the quality of life everybody needs and deserves. This laissez-faire form of capitalism that Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, and yes even Clinton have advocated does nothing to truly benefit the American people. We need to have a happy medium where everyone will not be left behind. However, I believe in a state sanctioned universal health care, I support stronger labor laws and rights, I support the return of corporate charters that stop multinationals from going out of bounds and being too greedy and expoliting the little guy. I am also in favor of affordable higher education, apprenticship programs, and more community centered programs to benefit all that may need them. I am afraid the current Democratic Party is not doing enough to help the poor and lower working class of this country and this must change. This is the big reason I am leaning towards democratic socialism.


John

[welshTerrier2]

83. save me a seat !!!

well, it looks like you may be a few weeks or months ahead of me ...

i wanted to make a couple of points about the DSA and also about the Democratic Party ...

i haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but did you know that the DSA endorsed Kerry this year ?? it would hardly be fair for loyalist Democrats to show scorn for that type of pragmatism ...

i'm very torn about what to do ... i think people in my local progressive group may be able to take over our local Democratic Party ... i hear the arguments of those who want us to stay and fight for control ... but the truth is, i'm not optimistic about the outcome ... is it possible? sure ... is it fair to say we won't know unless we try? sure again ... but the truth is i'm not sure i believe the effort will succeed ... and i also don't see many, even on the so called left of the party, who share my views ...

the two key issues for me right know are the military madness in Iraq and the sale of our government to monied interests ... all the "pretty" talk about campaign finance reform is all well and good ... i support these efforts ... but in the end, i think we need severe restrictions on massive wealth ... i won't elaborate here but i do not believe the super-wealthy can ever be forced to comply with our "little campaign and lobbying rules" ... the only approach will be to cap wealth at a point where it is much less likely to distort our democratic institutions ... the objective is not the restriction of the individual; it's the protection of democracy ...

The Democratic Party continues to support the "military solution" in Iraq ... very few Democrats, including Dr. Dean, have called for a "no conditions" withdrawal ... to me, immediate withdrawal is the only way ... so it's hard to be energized around the "take my party back" movement ... i wish Dean and DFA well but i'm not fully convinced they would represent my views even if they succeeded in gaining control ...

so, perhaps I'll join DSA ... I was planning to do this after the election for a very long time ... if you haven't read their platform statement you should ... it's one of the best position papers i've read in many years ... here's a link: http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html

congratulations on your decision ... save me a seat !!!

[ngant17]

87. Dems 'R US?

Reforming capitalism is a noble goal, but I would guess it's just so much window-dressing on an inherently ugly system that is slowing rotting from the head down. Something is seriously broken, I don't know how to fix capitialism to make it work, or at least to reward the altruistic motivations that are normal for every human being.

That being said, here's my list of the socialist-oriented US parties which are basically non-violent:

New Union Party
http://www1.minn.net/~nup/

Socialist Party USA
http://www.sp-usa.org/

Communist Party USA
http://www.cpusa.org

Socialist Labor Party
http://www.slp.org/

Workers World Party
http://www.workers.org/

Democratic Socialists of America
http://www.dsausa.org/

Social Democrats USA
http://www.socialdemocrats.org/

Workers Party, USA
http://www.workersparty.org/

World Socialist Party of the USA
http://www.worldsocialism.org/usa/

Did I miss any? I didn't rank them in importance, but I'm familiar with most of their platforms. I guess I like them all. I would have to say those are them mostlegitimate of the socialist groups here. I am aware of the more militant groups, at least one member has to live in France to keep from being arrested by the FBI, I think that's Bob Avakian's revolutionary communist party. Funny how he was tolerated before 9-11, and really I don't think he ever had changed his tune of 'class-struggle' all the while. Bush pre-emptive doctrine at work? Well, there are unrepentant rightwing terrorists in Miami (i.e., that old bazooka-boy, Dr. Orlando Bosch), these are people who have been officially pardoned by the Bush family, they see no evil here, so I don't follow this twisted logic coming from our homeland security dept. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Speaking of the right, there's also an equal amount of diversity over there - you can now find, what, a Green Nazi party? No, that's not a typo. You have the usual freepers, Christian right looney-tunes and libertarians (I tend to classify capitalist-oriented groups into the rightwing).

With so much to pick from, can we ever be completely satisfied with only our staid Dems and Repugs?

For us progressives, from what I've read, the closest we have ever came to some kind of unification of the fragmented US leftwing (outside of the internet and the Democratic Underground, I suppose), it appears to have happened with the erstwhile "Institute for Social and Economic Studies", which published CrossRoads Magazine for about 5 years, up until 1996. An unusual project that included people from the US Communist Party, the Committees of Correspondence, Democratic Socialists of America, and Maoist and Trotskyist factions. I can't imagine how it was able to cooperate beyond making a statement against crony capitalism here, i.e., you had Castro-baiters in the editorial board and longtime faithful Cuba-solidarity people on the staff. I would have been amazed if even Hercules attempted such a task.

Personally, I have always been a cosmopolitan fellow and detest the nationalist agenda, I'm enchanted with the idea of transcending national boundary lines on the political and humanist level, I think that's what the Arab Baath Socialists were originally trying to do in Syria and Iraq before the pan-Arab dream fizzled out and Saddaam became more aggressive with his neighbors. I think the Arab Baath Socialists have had a worthy concept with overcoming national borders within their own quasi-religious approach.

Perhaps in a similar way (but for strictly non-religious reasons), I've been associated with the Paris-based socialist SAT (Sennacieca Asocio Tutmonda). It's a anti-nationalist, leftist political group more well-known in Europe, little-known here. It exists within the Esperanto artificial-language movement, so at the very least I'm guilty of subsituting "religion" and "left-wing politics" for "linguistics" and "left-wing politics".

Don't write me off as another leftwing weirdo, I suspect I could be part of a general trend. Consider that there are now 2 influential linguists-cum-political activists in the US: George Lakoff of UCLA/Berkely (more or less the DNC's official advisor?) and Noam Chomsky (the well-known anarcho-syndicalist and writer who is a professor of linguistics at MIT in Boston).

[welshTerrier2]

88. very interesting ... thanks ...

i wouldn't write you off as a "leftwing weirdo" ... i thought what you wrote was very interesting ...

one correction though ... Chomsky and MIT are in Cambridge, not Boston ... the cities are only a mile or two apart geographically but much further apart in other ways ...

on the point of reforming capitalism, i pretty much agree with what you wrote ... my campaign to put at least some limits on massive wealth to protect our democratic institutions is predicated on 2 themes: first, the intent would be to allow as much possible freedom to the individual as we can ... and second, i see it as a pragmatic step in the right direction ... i don't see any sense in this country of promoting totally egalitarian themes at this time ... it just won't play in Peoria ...

thanks for all the links ... i'll check them out when time permits ...