Bhopal disaster expert -Background on the HAARP Project

[satori]

Background on the HAARP Project
Earthpulse Press
November 5, 1996
By Rosalie Bertell
PhD, GNSH

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/envronmt/weapons.htm

Dr. Bertell directed the International Medical Commission - Bhopal which investigated the aftermath of the Union Carbide disaster in Bhopal, and of the International Medical Commission - Chernobyl, which convened the Tribunal on violations of the human rights of victims in Vienna, April 1996.

_________________________________________________


Military interest in space became intense during and after World War II because of the introduction of rocket science, the companion to nuclear technology. The early versions include the buzz bomb and guided missiles. They were thought of as potential carriers of both nuclear and conventional bombs. Rocket technology and nuclear weapon technology developed simultaneously between 1945 and 1963. During this time of intensive atmospheric nuclear testing, explosions at various levels above and below the surface of the earth were tried. Some of the now familiar descriptions of the earth's protective atmosphere, such as the existence of the Van Allen belts, were based on information gained through stratospheric and ionospheric experimentation.

The military implications of combining these projects is alarming. Basic to this project is control of communications, both disruption and reliability in hostile environments. The power wielded by such control is obvious. The ability of the HAARP / Spacelab/ rocket combination to deliver very large amount of energy, comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth via laser and particle beams, are frightening. The project is likely to be "sold" to the public as a space shield against incoming weapons, or , for the more gullible, a devise for repairing the ozone layer.

According to Defence News, April 13 - 19, 1992, the US deployed an electromagnetic pulse weapon (EMP) in Desert Storm, designed to mimic the flash of electricity from a nuclear bomb. The Sandia National Laboratory had built a 23,000 square metre laboratory on the Kirkland Air Force Base, 1989, to house the Hermes III electron beam generator capable of producing 20 Trillion Watt pulses lasting 20 billionths to 25 billionths of a second. This X-ray simulator is called a Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator. A stream of electrons hitting a metal plate can produce a pulsed X-ray or gamma ray. Hermes II had produced electron beams since 1974. Thes devises were apparently tested during the Gulf War, although detailed information on them is sparce.

[Ian David]

1. This HAARP thing has been throughly debunked

I do not know anything about us using an EMP bomb in Iraq, or The Hermes III Electron beam thingy.

The fact that this article spouts about the evil of HAARP immediately discredits anything else they have to say, unless you can find a source with more credibility on those other points.

[satori]

2. Dr. Bertell Directed the International Medical Commission - Bhopal

Dr. Bertell directed the International Medical Commission - Bhopal which investigated the aftermath of the Union Carbide disaster in Bhopal, and of the International Medical Commission - Chernobyl, which convened the Tribunal on violations of the human rights of victims in Vienna, April 1996.

She has received numerous awards and five honorary Doctorate degrees since launching the IICPH in 1984.

[Ian David]

3. Argument from authority: Authority is often wrong

I'd love to see another source that doesn't talk about the HAARP program being a dangerous military conspiracy.

The other stuff might be true, but I won't believe it if it comes from a HAARP conspiracy believer.

All that HAARP stuff comes from UFO sites, psychic sites, and paranormal sites.

If you get your science information from Miss Cleo and Art Bell, then go ahead and believe in the HAARP conspiracy.

There is an article about HAARP here:

http://www.skeptic.com/mag101.html
(Unfortunately, it is not available online).

Here's an interesting discussion on the Bad Astronomy website:
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=237469&highlight=

[satori]

5. Globalpolicy.com is not a UFO site psychic site or paranormal site

GlobalPolicy.com is not a UFO site, psychic site, or paranormal site. The article Background on the HAARP Project by Rosalie Bertell http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/envronmt/weapons.htm links from globalpolicy.org not globalconspiracy.org

http://www.globalpolicy.org/visitctr/about.htm

Global Policy Forum

Global Policy Forum’s mission is to monitor policy making at the United Nations, promote accountability of global decisions, educate and mobilize for global citizen participation, and advocate on vital issues of international peace and justice.

Social and Economic Policy GPF works on global social and economic policy to promote a more equitable distribution of the world’s resources. GPF organizes international conferences on social and economic policy matters. Previous events have covered topics such as corporate accountability, the UN global compact, global taxes, financing for development and reform of the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

[The Magistrate]

4. Meaningless Drivel, Mr. Satori

Learned persons have no immunity from crankish faddism, particularly in areas outside their expertise. Knowledge of medicine conveys no claim to expertise in physics, geology, engineering, etc.

These articles you are littering the forum with on this subject have no more worth than spiels on Area Fifty-One, Creationist tracts, or exposes of the Illuminati....

"Ruthless exploitation of the weak and gullible never goes out of style."

[satori]

6. Dr. Rosalie Bertell has a Ph.D. in Biometrics not a MD or Medical Doctor

Dr.Rosalie Bertell, has a Ph.D., Biometrics not a MD.

POSITIONS HELD

British Columbia Medical Association, Environmental Health Committee, Canada

Environmental Protection Agency, Environmental Pollutant Movement and Transformation Committee, U.S.A.

National Council of Churches, Energy Task Force, U.S.A.
New York State Medical Society, Committee on Environmental Quality, U.S.A.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Standards Development Office, U.S.A.
Consultative Group on Arms Control & Disarmament to the Canadian

Ambassador on Disarmament to the U. N.

Citizen's Advisory Committee,President's Commission on the accident at Three Mile Island, U.S.A.

Wisconsin State Medical Society, Committee on Health and the Environment, USA

Ontario Public Service Employee's Union, Canada

Commissioner on the International Commission of Health Professionals, Geneva

Global Education Associates, U.N. Non-Governmental Organization

Canadian Union of Public Employees, Canada

Institute fur Energie und Umweltforschung, Heidelberg, F.R.G.

Japanese Assoc. of Scientists, Japan

Native Americans for a Clean Environment, Oklahoma. U.S.A.

Consumers Association of Penang, Malaysia

Centre for Industrial Safety and Environmental Concerns, Kerala, India

Interchurch Coordination Committee for Development Projects, Zeist, The Netherlands

Mercy Health Services, International, U.S.A.

Rongelap People's Council, Rongelap, Republic of the Marshall Islands

Ontario Hydro Employee's Union, Canada

Science Advisory Board, International Joint Commission of the U. S. and Canada

International Policy Action Committee - Women's Preparatory Committee for UNCED 1992, Beijing 1995

United Nations Conference for Women, NGO Forum, Beijing 1995

Manuscript review, Canadian Medical Assoc. Journal

Judge: Permanent People's Tribunal, Bhopal, India Oct. 1992; Madrid Sept. 1994; London Dec. 1994.

Co-Director: International Medical Commission, Bhopal, India, January 1994

African National Congress, Committee on Science and Technology, March 1994

Preparatory Conference on the International Court on the Environment, Venice, 1995.

Project Warmth for Homeless Street People, Toronto, Canada.
Greater Toronto Clearing House, Toronto, Canada

Advisory Board, Canadian Institute for Environmental Law and Policy, Toronto. Canada
Pugwash, Canada

Canadian National Roundtable on the Environment and Economy

Ontario Environmental Assessment Board

New City of Toronto, Task Force on the Environment.

Health Canada, Great Lakes Health Effects Program

Advisor to Scientific Committee of the European Parliament

Advisor to the Permanent People's Tribunal, Rome

ACADEMIC AND PROFESSIONAL HONORS, SCHOLARSHIPS, TRAINEESHIPS

Scholarship (4 years D'Youville), graduated Magna Cum Laude

Kappa Gamma Pi Academic Honour Society

Sigma Xi Scientific Research Honour Society

Graduate Assistantship (Catholic University) for M.A.

National Institute of Health Grant (3 years at Catholic University) for Ph.D.

New York State Dept. of Health, Post Doctorate Summer Research at Roswell Park Memorial Institute in Buffalo, NY USA

Grey Nuns' Legislative Chapter, Elected Delegate 1971, 1974, 1975,1988,1993, and 1998

National Assembly of Women Religious, New York State Delegate: House of Delegates 1973 to 1976; National Executive Board 1977 to 1980

Outstanding Civic Leader of America Award 1970

Reader for Advanced Placement Calculus Examination, Educational Testing, Princeton 1971, 1972

Outstanding Educators of America, Elected 1973

Award, Spring 1981 from National Organization of Women Western New York State Chapter

Award, 1981 from New York Public Interest Research Group

Honorary Member of Aerztebund fuer Umwelt und Lebensschutz (Federation of Physicians for the Protection of Energy and Life) 1983

Hans Adalbert Schweigart Medal, Awarded by the World League for the Protection of Life, Vienna, Austria 1983

Fellow of the Indian Society of Naturalists, Baroda, India 1985

The Right Livelihood Award, December, 1986, Sweden: " FOR RAISING PUBLIC AWARENESS ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE BIOSPHERE AND HUMAN GENE POOL, ESPECIALLY BY LOW-LEVEL RADIATION"

Distinguished Alumnae Award, Mount St. Joseph Academy, 1987

Women of Distinction Award, YWCA - Toronto, 1987

World Peace Award, World Federalists of Canada 1988

Ontario Premier's Council on Health: Health Innovator Award, 1991

Marguerite D'Youville Humanitarian Award, Grey Nuns of Montreal,

Cambridge Massachusetts 1992

United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) official recognition for

outstanding environmental achievements and Naming to the United

Nations Environmental Programme Global 500 Roll of Honour 1993

Honorary Member, Association of Mediterranean Women

Sean MacBride International Peace Prize, International Peace Bureau

Geneva, "for scientific testimony from the point of view of the
victim" awarded in Helsinki, Finland September 2001

MEMBERSHIP AND COMMITTEES (Partial List)

American Academy of Political and Social Sciences
American Association of University Women
American Public Health Association
Grey Nuns of the Sacred Heart
Institute of Society, Ethics and Life Sciences
International Biometric Society
International League of Women for Peace and Freedom
Kappa Gamma Pi
National Assembly of Women Religious
New York Academy of Science
Pugwash International, Canadian Section
Sigma Xi: Scientific Research Honour Society
Advisory Board Member, Energy Policy Information Institute
Advisory Board Member, Musicians United for Safe Energy
Plenary Member of Health Physics Society
Board of Advisors, Nuclear Reform Project
Board of Advisors, Colorado Atomic and Agent Orange Veterans
Advisory Board, Ecumenical Task Force on the Love Canal, USA
Advisory Board, Lawyers for Social Responsibility, Canada
Board of Directors, Peacework Alternatives, U.S.A.
Food and Water, Inc., Board of Directors, Denville, New Jersey
Board of Advisors, Food Irradiation Alert, Burnaby, BC
Advisory Board Member, Great Lakes Health Effects Program,
Health and Welfare, Canada.
Board of Directors, Global Education Associates, New York
Science Advisory Board, US-Canada International Joint Commission
Environment Task Force, City of Toronto
Nuclear Task Force, US-Canada International Joint Commission
BIOGRAPHICAL PUBLICATIONS (Partial List)
American Catholic Who's Who, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981
American Men and Women of Science, 1976, 1981, 1985
American Men and Women of Science: Consultants, 1977
American Registry Series, 1980 (Selected)
Anglo-American Who's Who, 1981
Community Leaders and Noteworthy Americans, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980
Community Leaders of America, 1982
Dictionary of International Biography, 1977-78, 1978-79, 1979-80, 1980-81
Directories of Distinguished Americans, 1981
International Book of Honour, Second World Edition, 1986
International Who's Who in Community Service, 1978, 1979
International Who's Who of Intellectuals, Vol. II, 1978
International Register of Profiles, 1979
International Register of Biographies, 1986
International Who's Who in Contemporary Achievement, 1985
Men and Women of Distinction, 1979
Notable American, 1976-77, 1978-79
Notable Americans of Bicentennial Era, 1976
Personalities of the Americas, First Commemorative Edition, 1987
Who's Who in American Scientists, 1973-77
Who's Who in American Women, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979-80
Who's Who in Health Care, 1977
Who's Who in the East, 1977-78, 1979-80
World Who's Who of Women 1976, 1977, 1981, 1995
Foremost Women of the Twentieth Century, 1986
Canadian Who's Who, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998.
The International Directory of Distinguished Leadership, 1992
Who's Who in Canadian Women, 1995-2001
PUBLICATIONS
"Testing Whether a Multinational Distribution is a Binomial Distribution of Order k" ? Doctoral Thesis ? Un. Microfilm Inc., Ann Arbor, Michigan, 1966
Introduction to Creative Mathematics, (Book) Edwards and Sons, 1971.
"Pets and Adult Leukemia," American Journal of Public Health, co?authored with Dr. Bross and Dr. Gibson, November 1972 (Vol. 62).
Manual for Users, Relative Risk Program, theoretical design for and description of the computer program, 1973, with Chandu Rathod, Department of Biostatistics, Roswell Park Memorial Institute, Buffalo NY USA.

Relative Risks for Combinations of 2x2 Tables, a program for the Monroe 1860 Calculator with L.I. Blumenson, 1973, Department of Biostatistics, R.P.M.I., Buffalo NY USA

Relative Risks When There Are Several Levels of Exposure, a program for the Monroe 1860 Calculator with L.E. Blumenson, April 1973, Department of Biostatistics, R.P.M.I. Buffalo NY USA.

"On an Alternate Method of Calculating and Odds Ratio," Journal of Medicine, Vol. 6, No. 1, 1975.

Theoretical Description of "Sister Test," Fastfortran (Conversational Ver. 4) Program, May 1974, with L.E. Blumenson, Department of Biostatistics, R.P.M.I., Buffalo NY USA.

"Nuclear Suicide," America, Vol. 131, No. 12, 1974.

"You are Needed," Encounter, Vol. 3, 1974.

"Dubious Victory," Baltimore Sun, August 12, 1974.

"Dental X?ray Hazards Held Well Documented," Buffalo Courier Express, October 10, 1974.

"Extensions of the Relative Risk Concept," Experientia, Vol. 131, January 1975.

"Nuclear Hazards," Feb. 1975 Nuclear Decisions.

"Citizen Action Recommended," Nuclear Opponents, Allendale, New Jersey, March?April 1975, pg. 1.

"The Equal Rights Amendment," Western New York Catholic, feature article, April 24, 1975.

"Recapping Renewal," Probe, April, 1975.

"More About Nuclear Suicide," Nuclear Opponents, Allendale, New Jersey, May?June 1975.

"Scientists question some PP&L Claims." Letter to the Editor, Harrisburg Evening News, May 16, 1975.

Written testimony on the hazards of low level radiation. House of Representatives, Committee on Energy and the Environment, Subcommittee of the House Interior Committee. Rep. Morris Udall, Chairman, August 6. 1975.

"Children of the Lord," Contemplative Review, November 1975.

"Health Effects from Nuclear Exposure," feature article, The Providence Journal, Providence, Rhode Island, June 16, 1976.

Testimony in a Congressional Seminar on Low Level Ionizing Radiation, Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment of the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, House of Representatives, May 4, 1976. U.S. Government Printing Office, 79?7670.

Testimony, July 7, 1976. Mines and Energy Management Committee. House of Representatives. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

"Biohazards of Nuclear Generators," Special International Nuclear Opponents for the Observance of the Anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nuclear Opponents, November 1976.

"Spirit Begets Spirit," Contemplative Review, November 1976.
X?ray Exposure and Premature Aging. Journal of Surgical Oncology, Vol. 9, Issue 4, 1977.

Some Ethical problems involved in nuclear proliferation. Probe, February 1977.

Nuclear power and human fragility. Nuclear Opponents, March 30, 1977.
Health Hazards from Low Level Radiation. Peace Newsletter, Syracuse Peace Council. April 1977, SPC 730.

Nuclear Power and Civil Rights in the United States. The Centerpiece. Buffalo Justice Center, January 1978.

Hard Questions ? Honest Answers. The Catholic New Times, Toronto, Ontario. February 26, 1978.

Measurable Health Effects of Diagnostic X?ray Exposure. Testimony before the Subcommittee on Health and the Environment of the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, U.S. House of Representatives, July 11, 1978. Vol. 2. Effect of Radiation on Human Health. Serial Number 95?180.

The Ethical Problems Involved in Nuclear Generation of Electricity. An invited address delivered at the Energy Symposium, May 13,1978, sponsored by the Irish Transport and General Workers Union in Dublin, Ireland. Published in "A Nuclear Ireland?", Dublin, 1979.
Health Hazards Involved in the Production, Storage and Use of Nuclear Weapons. Invited address, Japan International Congress Against A and H Bombs. Osaka, Japan, August 1978. Published in Congress Proceedings, 1979.

Part 16 and Part 17, CBS?TV Summer Session: Alternative Futures (29 minutes each), June 1978. Video Tapes available from Global Education Associates, 552 Park Avenue, East Orange, N.J. 07017.
Energy and Health. Article in the Social Costs of Energy Choices, a special issue of Christianity and Crisis, Vol. 38, no. 15, October 15, 1978.

Testimony Relative to Human Health and Nuclear Generation of Electricity. Discussion Texts, International Study Days for a Society Overcoming Domination, September 1978, d24.

The Nuclear Crossroads, Environmental Action Reprint Service, Box 545, La Veta, Co. 81055, April 29, 1978. Also published in: "A Nuclear Ireland?" Editors: J.F. Carroll and P.K. Kelly, Published by Irish Transport and General Workers Union.

The Nuclear Worker and Ionizing Radiation. American Industrial Hygiene Association Journal, (40), May 1979.

New Structures for Growth. Invited address, World Future Studies Conference: Science and Technology and the Future. Berlin, East Germany. May 8 ? 10, 1979.

Children in the Nuclear Age. Part 24, Children in the World television series. Video tapes available form the Canadian Save the Children Fund, 111 ? 115th Street East, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan S7N 2E1.

Radiation Kills. Article in Special Uranium Report. Published by the Energy File and the British Columbia Conference of the United Church of Canada, 105?2511 East Hastings, Vancouver, B.C. September 1979.

Comment on the Interagency Task Force on Low?Level Ionizing Radiation Report (directed to F. Peter Libassi, Chairman, Interagency Task Force on the Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation). Published in: Public Comments on the Work Group Reports. DHEW, June 1979.

Expert testimony before the Select Committee on Uranium Resources, Legislative Council, Parliament House, Adelaide, South Australia. March 11, 1980.

Spring (a poem). Contemplative Review, Spring Issue 1980.

Het Grie Staten Onderzock, IMGo Regionale Ontwikkeling, Middleburg 1980, the Netherlands.

Radiation Exposure and Human Species Survival. Environmental Health Review. Vol. 25 No. 2 (1981).

Peaceful Atom Myth Blown Up. Catholic New Times, July 5, 1981 p. 4 (Toronto) .

Response of Rosalie Bertell to the Critique of Michael Ginevan. Health Physics. Vol. 41 No. 2 p. 419?422 (1981).

Letter to the Editor ? "Physicians rally against the threat of nuclear epidemic" CMA Journal, September 15, 1981. Vol 125.

Women are Refusing to Bear Children. Catholic New Times, November 22, 1981. P. 3.

Nuclear Power and Nuclear Weapon Production are Health Issues. Proceedings of Medical Association for Prevention of War, Vol 3 Part 6, Autumn 1981 (England).

Health Hazards of Video Display Terminals, Environmental Health Review, Vol. 26, no. 1 (1982) pp. 3 ? 5.

Risikooientierte analyse zum SNR?300, C.IV, Institute fur Energie und Umwelrforschung, Heildelberg e.v., August 1982, Table 2 ? 4, page 2034, R. Bertell, September 1982.

Response of Rosalie Bertell to critique of Kelly Clifton Environmental Health Review, Vol. 26, no. 2 (1982) pp. 47 - 48.

Demonstration Show a New Consciousness. Catholic New Times, June 27, 1982, p. 9 (Toronto).

Risks expected from Radiation Exposure of Workers of Light?Water Power Reactors (co?authored with Ikuro Anzai). Journal of Japanese Scientists. Vol. 18, no. 2 (1983).

Crimes Against Life and Death. Speech given at Tribunal Against First Strike and Mass Destruction Weapons in East and West, Nurenberg, West Germany, February 1983. Published in Proceedings. Also published as: "Early War Crimes of WW III", Breakthrough, Fall 1983.

Are Video Display Terminals Safe? Environmental health Review Vol. 27, no. 1 (1983) pp. 18 ? 20. 1.

Genetic and Terategenic Effects of Ionizing Radiation, R. Bertell in: Oko?Institute, Ananytische Weiterentwicklung zur Duetschen Risikostudie Kernkraftwerke, Freiburg 1983.

Reflections on the Bishop's Pastoral on Nuclear War. Probe (National Assembly of Women Religious) Vol XI, no. 8 June ? July 1983.

"Unholy Secrets: The impact of the nuclear age on public health." Chapter 3, in Reclaim the Earth, Leonie Caldecott and Stephanie Leland, editors. The Women's Press, London, (1983) pp. 20?33.

"A Micronesian Woman" (a Poem) in Reclaim the Earth, Leonie Caldecott and Stephanie Leland, editors. The Women's Press, London (1983) p. 111.

"Auswirkungen einer atombombenexplosion auf die menschlichen Gene" in Labt uns die Kraniche suchen, Petra Kelly, editor, Werkhaus (1983) pp. 118 ? 120.

"Passioned Stillness" (a poem) Sister's Today, Vol. 55, no. 2, October 1983, p. 99.

Keynote Speech on Pacific Nuclearization. "Health Effects of Ionizing Radiation". From: Proceedings of the Nuclear Free and Independent Pacific Conference. Villa, Vanuatu 1983.

"Early War Crimes of W.W. III". Whole Earth Papers. No. 19, Global Education Associates. Fall 1983.

"The Health of the Oceans". BREAKTHROUGH, Global Education Associates Newsletter. Vol. 5, No. 4., Summer, 1984.

"Peace Making and the Gifts of Women". Ecumenism. No. 75. Sept. 1984.
Handbook for Estimating Health Effects from Exposure to Ionizing Radiation. Compiled by Rosalie Bertell, Ph.D., Published and distributed by International Institute of Concern for Public Health, Buffalo; International Radiation Research and Training Institute, Birmingham, England. First Edition 1984; Second Edition 1986.

"Current Challenges to the Christian as Scientist", Canadian Catholic Review December 1984.
No Immediate Danger ? Prognosis for a Radioactive Earth. The Women's Press, London, England, 1985. Also published in Canada, the U.S., Australia, India and New Zealand.

"Scientific Information Suppressed". Index on Censorship. Vol. 14 No. 5 October 1985.

Swedish translation of No Immediate Danger, Symposion Bokforlag and Tryckeri AB, Stockholm/Lund 1986.
German translation of No Immediate Danger, Goldmann Verlag, Munchen, F.R.G. 1987.

Japanese translation of Handbook for Estimating Health Effects from Exposure to Ionizing Radiation, Gijutsu to Ningen Publishing Co., 1987.

French translation of No Immediate Danger, Les Editions de la Pleine Lune, Montreal, 1988 and CQFDL, St.?Thibault?des?Vignes, France 1988.
Estimate of Uranium and Nuclear Radiation Casualties Attributable to Activities Since 1945, Medicine and War, Vol. 4. 27 ? 36 (1988).
Health is a Human Right, 1988 Yearbook, International Commission of Health Professionals, Geneva.

The Real Meaning of Health Care, Breakthrough, Fall '87/Spring '88 pp.64?65.

A World on the Verge of Maturity, Journal of Religion and the Applied Behavioural Sciences, Summer 1987, pp.5?8.

"Radiation and Health Issues in the Nuclear Age", in Challenge to Nuclear Waste, Ed. Anne Wieser, Proceedings of the Nuclear Waste Issues Conference, Sept. 12?14, 1986. pp. 73?81, 1987.

Love the Earth (a poem), Published in Frauen & Okologie, Kolner Volksblatt Verlag, F.R.G., 1987.

Protect us from the Protectors, Published in Alternatives, Volume 16, No. 4/Vol.17 No. 1 1990.

Destruction of the Environment, A Living Biosphere, Chapter 9, in "Horrendous Death, Health and Well Being". Ed. Dr. Dan Leviton, University of Maryland, pp.177?190. Hemisphere Publ. Corp. New York 1991.

No Immediate danger? Prognosis for a Radioactive Earth, in Women and Sustainable Development: a report from Women's Forum in Bergen, Norway, 14?15 May 1990, Published by Center for Information on Women and Development, Oslo, Norway, 1990, pp. 18?21.
Nucleogenic Illness, in Replenishing the Earth, The Right Livelihood Awards 1986?89, Ed. Tom Woodhouse, Green Books, Devon, England, 1990, pp. 209?215.

Women in the International Arena. First World Summit. "Women and the Many Dimensions of Power" June 3?8, 1990, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Radioactivity: No Immediate Danger? Ms. Magazine, The World of Women, Volume II, Number 2, Page 27, September/October 1991.

Chernobyl ? April 1991, Environmental Health Review Vol. 35, No. 3 Fall 1991.

A Conversation with Rosalie Bertell, Proceedings World YWCA, Stavanger, Norway June 1991.

Survival, Not Economy, Is the Bottom Line. Chapter 8, pp. 78?85, in

Women's Voices on the Pacific, The Intr'l. Pacific Policy Congress, Edited by Lenora Foerstel, Maisonneuve Press, Washington, D. C. 1991.
Section 3, Chapter 2: "Ethics of the Nuclear Option in the 1990's" in NUCLEAR ENERGY AND ETHICS, edited by Kristen?Shrader?Frechette. World Council of Churches, Geneva 1991 (pp 161?181).

Keynote Speech, Meeting of the World Council of the YWCA, Stavanger, Norway, 25 July 1991. Published by the YWCA Executive in Geneva, Switzerland in the Proceedings of the Meeting.

Breast Cancer and Mammography, Mothering, No. 64, Summer 1992.

Foreword to the book: One World One Earth, February 1992.

Paper delivered at the Student Pugwash Meeting, Pugwash NS Canada. August 29, 1992 in

"Peace Making and Peace Keeping after Rio" .Published in International Perspectives in Public Health, Vol.8, 2?3, 1992

Health and Safety Implications of Nuclear Development: The

International Experience, in THE NUCLEAR DEBATE: Proceeding of the Conference on Nuclear Policy for a Democratic South Africa, 11?13 February 1994. Publ. by Environmental Monitoring Group and Western Cape ANC Science and Technology Group (pp. 115?120).

Militarism and Health, in MILITARISM IN THE MEDITERRANEAN:

Mediterranean Women's Conference, Malta, 1994.
The Global Health Crisis. Third World Resurgence. No.20,11 - 12, 1994.

"Epidemiology in Radioactive Contaminated Areas" in Biomedical and Psychosocial Consequences of Radiation from Man?Made Radionuclides, Proceedings of International Symposium, Royal Norwegian Society of Sciences and Letters Foundation, Trondheim, Norway, 1994,303?324.

"Low Level Radiation Exposure Effects in the Tri?State Leukemia Survey" in Nuclear Test Results: A Woman's Perspective, .Proceedings from a conference held at the Graduate Center, City University of New York. April 24, 1995.

"Exposure: Environmental Links to Breast Cancer" a documentary video (48 minutes; color) Directed and Produced by Francine Zuckerman and Martha Butterfield. Available from The Women's Network on Health and Environment, Toronto, Canada. Released September 1997.
100 Years After Roentgen, edited by Inge Schmitz?Feuerhake and Edmund Lengfelder.Proceeds of the International Congress held in Berlin 1995.

"Low Level Radiation Exposure Effects in the Tri?State Leukemia Survey", pages 48?59, published 1997.
Metal of Dishonor: Depleted Uranium, Depleted Uranium Education Project International Action Center,New York City 1997. Chapter 19:

"Nine?Legged Frogs, Gulf War Syndrome and Chernobyl Studies" pages 123?133.

"Compensation for the Bhopal Disaster" in Environment and Health in Developing Countries, Editors Manas Chaterji, Mohan Munasinghe and Rabin Ganguly, APH Publishing Co., Delhi 1998, 385 ? 393.

"Sustainability: The Big Picture" in The Female Odyssey, Editors: Charlotte Cole and Helen Windrath. The Women's Press Ltd. London, England, 1999, 105?117, 1999.
Pollution Primer, Chapter I in "Sweeping the Earth: Women Taking Action for a Healthy Planet", Editor Miriam Wyman, Gynergy Press, Charlottetown Press, PEI, Canada, 1999.

"Planet Earth: The Latest Weapon of War", The Women's Press, London, UK 2000. Also published in Germany, Canada and the USA.
We need to Rethink Security, Catholic New Times, Toronto, Canada, Vol 26, No.5, 17 March 2002 pp 1 and 9.

[The Magistrate]

7. Mere Loggorhea, Sir

No credentialing on physics, geology, engineering, or similar matters.

It is clear that nothing is going to dissuade you from cluttering the forum with these delusional concerns, though doutless you would earn the gratitude of many if you could find some other outlet for your energies: a walk in the park, perhaps, a date, wife has just suggested perhaps volunteer work in a convalescent home: something, at any rate, to get you out into fresh air and decent company and provide at least a modicum of distraction....

"I'm going home now. Somebody bring me some frogs and some bourbon."

[satori]

10. Dr. Rosalie Bertell's other qualifications such as M.A. in Mathematics

Dr. Rosalie Bertell appears to have in 1959 received a Mathematics M.A. degree and in 1966 a degree in Biometrics with Minors in Biology and Biochemistry.

She has also received numerous awards and five honorary Doctorate degrees since launching the IICPH in 1984.

[Jesus H. Christ]

37. Yup. She's also won the Alternative Nobel Prize.

So that means she's chock full of Alternative Credibility.

[satori]

44. 1000 Peace Women nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, 2005.

Dr. Rosalie Bertell has worked as a biometrician and environmental epidemiologist.

Among her other awards United Nations Environment Programme Global 500 award

She has recently been selected to be one of the 1000 Peace Women nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, 2005.

Contact Information: [email protected] or http://www.iicph.org

[Ian David]

8. Logical Fallacy: Argument from Authority

Argument from authority (argumentum ad verecundiam): using the words of an "expert" or authority as the bases of the argument instead of using the logic or evidence that supports an argument. (e.g., Professor so-and-so believes in creation-science.) Simply because an authority makes a claim does not necessarily mean he got it right. If an arguer presents the testimony from an expert, look to see if it accompanies reason and sources of evidence behind it.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

And from The Baloney Detection Kit:

Arguments from authority carry little weight - "authorities" have made mistakes in the past.
They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.
http://www.skepticreport.com/tools/baloney.htm

See also:
http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalfallacies/a/authority.htm

I do not care Dr. Bertell walks on water, cured cancer, and saved the human race from extinction.

Prove to me that the non-HAARP related gizmos in this article are for real, BASED ON THE MERITS OF THE FACTS, NOT ON THE SPOKESPERSON SELLING THE IDEAS.

[satori]

12. I just said she was not a medical doctor and gave examples

I just gave in my counterpoint that she was not a MD but rather a Ph.D., and I gave examples of how he may of been confused because she was on a medical commission so as to attempt to help start a meaningful discussion not to defeat one from occurring about the overall points about HAARP and underground nuke testing.

For example one of his points is that energy is limited in nature from another thread. I countered with I think it might be infinite, and I asked him before or anyone to simply show me references or abstracts that say things like when atomic energy or waves interact with plates in the ocean this is the result, as a sort of example to support what they are saying because it would help to convince me as a non-scientist that has no experience in Geology.

[The Magistrate]

14. Oh, Well, A PhD...!

That certainly settles matters, Sir....

[anarchy1999]

18. In our own dearest "Trumps" words, "You're Fired!"

Once again, go do some real homework. Then get back with the rest of us.

Have you ever heard or read anything about Tesla?

Come we invite you, come and crawl slowly out of the rock you hide under.

[Jesus H. Christ]

38. I've got a PhD in Bridge Marketing.

Would you like to buy one?

[The Magistrate]

39. It Would Seem, Sir

Similar credentials for purchase of bridges are available as well; some show real expertise at it....

[satori]

47. Bertell directed the commission investigating the Bhopal disaster

After the Bhopal disaster in 1984, Bertell (a biometrician and environmental epidemiologist) directed the International Medical Commission investigating the effects of the Union Carbide chemical spill that contributed to some 15,000 deaths.

[The Magistrate]

52. While The Title Sounds Impressive, Mr. Satori

This "International Commission" is a self-appointed group, and very clearly a group that brings a point of view to its actions. It is certainly not the only thing to have investigated the occurances at Bhopal, nor is its widely considered the most authoritative one.

Beyond that, of course, nothing involved on that investigation conveys or indicates any particular expertise in the question you have raised, and on which you expect us all to acknowledge her comments as unchallengeable authority....

[unpossibles]

9. discredited

where? can you provide a link? I am curious, and do not really know much about either side, but am interested in how it's been debunked.

[Ian David]

15. See message #8 re: debunking HAARP

I am not interested in debating HAARP.

I consider that case closed.

I am interested in seeing confirmation about the other stuff you have mentioned.

And by the way, NO energy source-- including nukes-- has "infinite" energy.

[anarchy1999]

17. You are way too new. HAARP exixts.

Go do your homework, start at google and then get back with the rest of us.

[Ian David]

20. HAARP exists. Yes. See my message #8

HAARP exists.

So does Hoover Dam.

That doesn't mean Hoover Dam is part of a secret doomsday weapon.

If you're going to make extraordinary claims, then you require extraordinary evidence.

I'd be willing to consider ANY evidence that makes sense.

The burden of proof lies not with me, but with those claiming that there are new secret weapons based on far-fetched principals.

But like I said, I am NOT interested in debating HAARP.

I am interested in the OTHER programs, which I no longer believe in because of the author's insistence that Pinky and The Brain are using HAARP to control weather, manipulate the stock market, and turn the ocean into rum raisin icecream with red jimmies on top.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carni]

31. I'll get flamed and called a crank I am sure but look up Eastlund

I don't want to get embroiled in a debate about HAARP...but I spent a few hours the other day researching HAARP (From the Haarp site not some screwball UFO deal)

In any case after researching the HAARP topic I found my way to the site below:

http://www.eastlundscience.com/patentsb1.html

It appears that the *weather machines* Eastlund has in mind are intended to super heat the rain in a tornado formation to break up the storm formation(I believe this would be done via satellite and I believe there is a link to wired magazine about this from the Eastlund site at the "in the news" link)

I am just passing on info for perusal and discussion.

I hold no firm opinion on HAARP or the rest of the weather related *stuff*, but I will admit that I was rather surprised that there are even plans for this type of technology...it sounds so XFiles.

Below I have copied and pasted the info at Eastlund Corp's site about the founder of the corporation:

"Dr. Bernard J. Eastlund holds a B. S. in physics from MIT and a Ph.D. in physics from Columbia University. He received a Special Achievement Certificate from the U. S. Atomic Energy Commission in 1970 for co-invention of the "Fusion Torch."

In 1974, his invention of an electrodeless microwave ultraviolet lamp received an IR 100 award from Industrial Research magazine. He is a member of the American Physical Society, of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers and of the Society of Petroleum Engineers. (See "Prospects of Fusion Power, by William C. Gough and Bernard J. Eastlund, Scientific American, 1971.)

From 1996 to the present, he is the CEO and President of Eastlund Scientific Enterprises Corporation.

From 1994 to 1995 he was president of Production Technologies Company, L. L. C. PTC is an oil field technology company located in Houston, Texas.


He organized Production Technologies International, Inc., and was president and CEO from 1984 to 1989 and again from 1992 to 1994. He conceptualized, designed and developed "cable-free" technology for delivering electrical power downhole in oil and gas wells without the use of cables.

From 1979 to 1984 he was Vice President for Energy Technology with the BDM Corporation in McLean, Virginia. He developed and executed substantial contracts with Exxon, Shell Development, Camco, Atlantic Richfield, Lodge Cottrell and other international oil industry factors. Independently, as a consultant for the Atlantic Richfield Corporation between 1984 and 1987 he developed new civilian and military uses of North Slope natural gas.

Three patents were issued and a new corporation, APTI, was organized by ARCO to pursue various concepts within the patents. APTI has promoted two aspects of the patents that have resulted in DOD sponsored projects. The first is HAARP (HF Active Auroral Research Program) which is a small version of the antenna discussed in the patents. The second is AIM (Artificial Ionospheric Mirror) which is a claim in the patents related to a new method of reflecting radar.


He co-founded, and from 1974 to 1979 was Vice President and Chief Technical Officer of Fusion Systems Corporation, Rockville, Maryland, a successful venture capital supported firm whose core technology and initial products he co-invented. Fusion Systems Corporation was recently purchased by the Eaton Corporation of Cleveland, Ohio. Spinoffs of Fusion Systems Corporation include (1) Fusion UV Systems, Inc. of Gaithersburg, Maryland and Fusion Lighting Inc. of Rockville, Maryland.


From 1966 to 1974 he managed research programs for Controlled Thermonuclear Research for the U. S. Atomic Energy Commission.

[satori]

46. Misleading public opinion

According to this article the public has been getting misleading information about HAARP, and they state that it does exist.

MISLEADING PUBLIC OPINION

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO201A.html

HAARP has been presented to public opinion as a program of scientific and academic research. US military documents seem to suggest, however, that HAARP's main objective is to "exploit the ionosphere for Department of Defense purposes." (8) Without explicitly referring to the HAARP program, a US Air Force study points to the use of "induced ionospheric modifications" as a means of altering weather patterns as well as disrupting enemy communications and radar.9

According to Dr. Rosalie Bertell, HAARP is part of a integrated weapons' system, which has potentially devastating environmental consequences:

"It is related to fifty years of intensive and increasingly destructive programs to understand and control the upper atmosphere. It would be rash not to associate HAARP with the space laboratory construction which is separately being planned by the United States. HAARP is an integral part of a long history of space research and development of a deliberate military nature. The military implications of combining these projects is alarming. ... The ability of the HAARP / Spacelab/ rocket combination to deliver very large amount of energy, comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth via laser and particle beams, are frightening. The project is likely to be "sold" to the public as a space shield against incoming weapons, or, for the more gullible, a device for repairing the ozone layer. (10)

While there is no concrete evidence of HAARP having been used, scientific findings suggest that it is at present fully operational. What this means is that HAARP could potentially be applied by the US military to selectively modify the climate of an "unfriendly nation" or "rogue state" with a view to destabilizing its national economy.

[evolvenow]

11. What is HAARP? Classified, that is what it is.

What exactly will HAARP do? According to HAARP project documents it will "perturb" the ionosphere with extremely powerful beams of energy. Using polarized, pulsating radio frequency transmissions to perform experiments which include devising methods to destroy the communications capabilities of others (presumably an adversary) while preserving their own communications. Experiments with mirroring and reflecting abilities of the ionosphere (abilities we currently depend on for all forms of communication) will be carried out to see what military purposes may be served by the resulting changes. An apt analogy that springs to mind is that of an inquisitive youngster poking a sleeping bear with a stick, to see what might happen! What will we do once the monster is unleashed?

The Alaska location was partially picked for its alignment with the earth's magnetic force lines. Military experiments with the magnetosphere also appear to be planned. And again the scientists warn of possible dire consequences, including setting the earth into some unexpected vibration or oscillation, similar to an axis wobble. Many scientists such as Richard Williams writing in Physics and Society in April, 1988 have denounced this kind of testing as irresponsible and downright dangerous, fearing long term negative ionospheric effects. Also, like any magnet, the force lines will react at their opposite pole, near Australia and New Zealand. Australians are concerned enough to consider sending a team to Alaska to document and investigate HAARP. Shouldn't Alaskans be interested too?
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/HAARP.html
(snip)

[Ian David]

16. HAARP studies the aurora borealis and communicates with submarines

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[evolvenow]

13. ... weapons systems that "will be different from what anyone else has".

Russia Vows To Keep Its Nuclear Superpower Status

A robust deterrenceMoscow (AFP) Dec 24, 2004

Russia will keep pace with the United States in nuclear weapons technology but not in the size of its strategic arsenal, Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov said Friday according to Interfax news agency.
"In a long historical perspective, nuclear parity will be preserved not only with the United States but also with the other countries with nuclear arms," he was quoted as saying.
"I have no doubt about that."
(snip)
Defence officials have said Russian President Vladimir Putin was referring to the Topol-M earlier this month when he claimed Russia was developing weapons systems that "will be different from what anyone else has".
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/icbm-04i.html

[Ian David]

19. The Topol-M

This sounds very much like our Minuteman

RT-2UTTH - Topol-M
SS-27

The single-warhead RT-2UTTH Topol-M is an advanced version of the silo-based and mobile Topol intercontinental ballistic missile. While the SS-25 Topol is generally similar to the American Minuteman-2, the more sophisticated SS-27 Topol-M is comparable to the American Minuteman-3. The Topol-M is 22.7 meters (75 feet) long and has a diameter of 1.95 meters (6 feet 3 inches). The missile weighs 47.2 metric tons and has a range of 11,000 kilometers (6,900 miles). The solid-propellant three-stage Topol-M missile complex, with a standardized (silo and mobile) missile, is to become the foundation of the Russian strategic nuclear forces in the 21st century. It is planned to accommodate Topol-M both on self-propelled launchers as well as in silos. High survivability of the mobile complex is achieved by the capability of off-road movement, comprising of continuous change in location and of a missile launch from any point along the movement route.

<snip>

The Topol-M missile system is still being commissioned in the Russian strategic nuclear forces' grouping regardless of whether heavy missiles stand down from combat alert duty or not. The Topol-M ICBM grouping is intended to will comprise an equal number of mobile and silo-launched missiles. Some 90 of the 360 launch silos vacated by the RS-20 ICBM's, which will stand down from combat alert, need to be converted for the Topol-M. Apart from Saratov Oblast the Topol-M systems will be deployed in Valday, the southern Urals, and the Altay.
--
Ah, here's some interesting parts:
--
Based on its throw weight, the Topol-M missiles could be transformed into missiles with multiple reentry vehicles carrying between 3-6 missiles.
--
In other words, they can be modified so that one missile can carry 3-6 nukes, each of which can hit a different target.
--
The Topol-M can carry a maneuverable warhead, which was tested in the summer of 1998.
--
That will be extremely hard-- maybe impossible-- to hit a "maneuverable warhead" with one of Bush's "Star Wars" weapons. Unless I'm mistaken (and perhaps I am) our SDI system is designed to hit warheads in a "ballistic trajectory," (falling like a rock) NOT warheads that zig and zag on their own power.

Intercepting a ballistic warhead is like tagging a runner out at second base in Baseball. Intercepting a maneuverable warhead is like tackling a really good sprinter in football.
--
Topol-M also has a shorter engine-burn time, to minimize satellite detection on launch.
--
This is also a bad thing. Even when detected at launch, a nuke from Russia has a maximum flight time of 13 minutes (that might have changed, I'm working from my memory of what I've read during The Cold War).

By being more difficult to detect, we are even less likely to be able to intercept the missile, let alone launch a retaliatory strike before they destroy our own nukes which could be still sitting in our silos.

To put it in perspective: Bush spent 22 minutes reading My Pet Goat to a third-grade class while the terrorists carried out their attacks.

Nukes would reach us in 13 minutes.

Even sooner if they come from a submarine.

God help us if Bush is busy cutting the ribbon at a Walmart or something when the Russians launch an attack.

--
Russia deployed the first batch of ten Topol-Ms in December 1998 and deployed 20 other missiles in two batches over the next two years. Due to funding constraints the fourth batch of Topol-Ms were not deployed until 21 December 2003 when ten more missiles were commissioned Tatishchevo missile base in the central Saratov region.

In November 2004 Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said that Russia expected to test-fire a mobile version of its Topol-M ballistic missile in 2004, with production of the new weapon to be commissioned in 2005.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/rt-2pmu.htm

[anarchy1999]

24. Check out Bearden, and now I'm done with you.

http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/1314-bearden.html

A Rare Event: Tom Bearden Talks About Weaponry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I promised Zoh some years ago that I would come on her show and I would talk about weaponry and I'm fulfilling that promise today."

One of the greatest man-induced dangers we face as a planet today is the development of electromagnetic frequencies to be used as wave warfare. In April of 1997 Secretary of Defense William Cohen admitted he was concerned about threats of terrorism with weapons that can cause earthquakes and trigger volcanoes.

Over the years we have shared with our audiences many different approaches to the subject of quantum mechanics, the work of Nikola Tesla, the concerns about ELF wave warfare, mind control, and other technological nightmares predicted by the misuse of these technologies. Investigators and researchers in these areas often refuse to speak publicly about their work, and usually Ltc. Tom Bearden is one of them. When asked, Bearden typically declines to share his knowledge about our government's involvement in behavioral weaponry, lecturing instead on the many other facets in his amazing repertoire. Indeed, there are other lecturers speaking publicly about behavioral weaponry, but often they are sent by the government to assure the public this stuff doesn't go on.

But on May 16, 1997, however, Tom Bearden kept his promise, and agreed to be a guest on The Zoh Show and tell her audience what he knows about electromagnetic weaponry. Zoh recalled meeting Christopher Bird for the first time in December 1977. The co-author of the classic, The Secret Life of Plants, Chris Bird eventually became the best man at the wedding of Dr. Bob and Zoh (see Hieronimus & Co. Newsletter #6), and at that first meeting Chris noted Zoh's interest in learning how frequencies are capable of changing consciousness, healing and harming. Chris said, "You must speak to my good friend Tom Bearden." Tom and Zoh briefly discussed his work in weaponry, with a promise to go into more details at their next meeting. Since then, he has discontinued public speaking about his knowledge, until this date, twenty years later, on May 16, 1997 when he joined The Zoh Show to help promote the New Energy Conference of May 1997, and fulfill his twenty year old promise.

Zoh asked Tom to give his own rendition of his biography and he modestly summarized his extraordinary background like this:

"Well, in all these matters, Zoh, you've got to keep your sense of humor. I started out to be a country & western guitar picker and singer and followed that trade until I wound up in the U.S. Army. I had an Army career, I'm retired of course, then worked in aerospace for 19 years. That's basically my background. Masters Degree in Nuclear Engineering, B.S. degree in mathematics, some other courses here and there, and the equivalent of a Masters Degree in Aerospace Engineering from a special Army course. I got concerned early on looking at electromagnetics," when he realized text book teachings were antiquated in the teachings and concept of energy. "It was all twisted up, and it is to this day, and I'm not the only one who says that. Some of the very famous foundation's physicists have pointed out that electrodynamics should be completely redone, but it's fashionable to never pay attention to that." Tom says he got concerned because it appeared to him that if the errors were corrected, "you could also model the mind," he continues. "I've always been convinced that we are human beings. We are not meat computers and we are not machines. If we lose sight of the fact of our humanity and our human beingness, the rest of it doesn't matter anyway. If we are nothing but a bunch of robots beating one another's brains out then we would be better off to be destroyed and populate the earth with real human beings.

SCIENCE NEEDS TO CONSIDER HUMAN-NESS

oh and by the way,

Chemtrails don't exist either.

[The Magistrate]

26. This Bearden, Sir, Is A Fascinating Fellow

http://www.phact.org/e/z/BeardenReview.htm

"And a good laugh was had by all...."

[anarchy1999]

27. Laugh away. Nikola Tesla

http://www.neuronet.pitt.edu/~bogdan/tesla/

The Serbian-American inventor, electrical engineer, and scientist

Born on July 9/10, 1856 in Smiljan, Lika (Austria-Hungary)
Died on January 7, 1943 in New York City, New York (USA)
Inventions: a telephone repeater, rotating magnetic field principle, polyphase alternating-current system, induction motor, alternating-current power transmission, Tesla coil transformer, wireless communication, radio, fluorescent lights, and more than 700 other patents.


Laugh all you want to.

[The Magistrate]

28. He Is A Well-Known Fellow, Sir

His record is somewhat erratic....

[The Magistrate]

30. It Is Also Worth Noting, Sir

That you do not engage any of the particulars present in the critique of Mr, Bearden and his claims....

"There's one born every minute...."

[evolvenow]

48. Tesla's Death Ray -It exists, and you will never hear about it...

(snip)

Tesla switched on the device. At first, it was hard to tell if it was even working. Its extremity emitted a dim light that was barely visible. Then an owl flew from its perch on the tower's pinnacle, soaring into the path of the beam. The bird disintegrated instantly.
That concluded the test. Tesla watched the newspapers and sent telegrams to Peary in hopes of confirming the death ray's effectiveness. Nothing turned up. Tesla was ready to admit failure when news came of a strange event in Siberia.
On June 30, a massive explosion had devastated Tunguska, a remote area in the Siberian wilderness. Five hundred thousand square acres of land had been instantly destroyed. Equivalent to ten to fifteen megatons of TNT, the Tunguska incident is the most powerful explosion to have occurred in human history -- not even subsequent thermonuclear detonations have surpassed it. The explosion was audible from 620 miles away. Scientists believe it was caused by either a meteorite or a fragment of a comet, although no obvious impact site or mineral remnants of such an object were ever found.

(snip)

http://www.parascope.com/en/0996/tesla4.htm

[The Magistrate]

53. Ripping Yarn, Sir

Good to know at last the cause of the Tunguska event.

Nuclear detonations more powerful than fifteen megatons have been contived, of course, but why let factual error by the author interfere with such a splendid tale?

If you choose to believe this sort of thing, of course there is nothing to be done for you, any more than something can be done for those convinced they can speak to dead people, or that the Christ again will walk the earth in their life-times....

[Donkeyboy75]

68. And I'm laughing a lot.

You do have the technique of posting unrelated links to show "evidence" of your point. There is none. In order to use electromagnetic radiation to control the mind, we'd have to know how the mind works. We don't. So even if you swallow a salt lick and believe that it's possible to manipulate minds with em radiation, the info is worthless because WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW BRAIN WAVES TRANSLATE INTO THOUGHTS AND/OR ACTION.

[murray hill farm]

25. Satori

new rules here at du, i guess! Dont post anything other than...old and proven and accepted and agreed upon for years and years facts...new ideas...speculation...even with all the credentials that you state for your sources...no good...it all gets put down as kooks or crackpots..or just stupid of you to dare to bring it up...how dare u notice and read and and post. soon no one will post here except what is viewed as OK by a few.

[The Magistrate]

29. Martyrdom Is Such Fun, Is It Not, Ma'am?

It has been well said that it is the only way for a person to gain adulation without accomplishment....

[murray hill farm]

32. my, my, my....so quick to label those who do not agree with your

need to be the superior mind.

[The Magistrate]

33. That Is All Right, Ma'am

It does not bother me; the desire for persecution is an amusing sight....

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

36. Your Energies, Sir

Might be better directed to providing some critique of the particulars in the refutation of Mr. Bearden's claims provided above. It seems abundantly clear he ought not be taken too seriously, and why you feel he should be stirs my curiousity....

"Some have an instinct for the jugular; some have an instinct for the cappillary."

[anarchy1999]

40. Please see above post #31.

It is an interesting read and more on the same subject, and to you sir, anarchy1999, is the two of us. Ms. and Mr., you never know.

[The Magistrate]

41. Your Meaning Is Unclear, Sir

The two gentlemen are seperate fellows, are they not? Not joined at the hip, nor is one simply an alias commonly employed by the other?

Mention of Dr. Eastlund does nothing to refute critiques of Mr. Bearden's views of physics.

Dr. Eastlund has not been involved in the Alaskan project since 1987, and so can only speculate about its nature, even if it is based on some of his early research.

One interesting thing is that the ominous megawattage cited as evidence of tremendous power and conclusive proof of doomsday capabilities, works out, over the area it covers in the ionosphere, to only a very small fraction of the natural energies of sunlight impacting the region.

The truth of the matter, Sir, is that you are not in the least interested in whether any of this is actual, so long as you can feel the chill of fear of bad men working secretly in the style of a pulp fiction is true....

"My opponent matriculated in school, and is widely known to be a thespian!"

[Jesus H. Christ]

34. Isn't there some pseudoscience/quackery forum

you can post this crap in?

I mean standard goofnuttery is bearable, but this is pretty damn disrespectful to the people who died.

[satori]

42. Climate Change: Washington's New World Order Weapons

Centre for Research on Globalisation
Washington's New World Order Weapons Have the Ability to Trigger Climate Change
by Michel Chossudovsky
Third World Resurgence, January 2001

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO201A.html

The important debate on global warming under UN auspices provides but a partial picture of climate change; in addition to the devastating impacts of greenhouse gas emissions on the ozone layer, the World's climate can now be modified as part of a new generation of sophisticated "non-lethal weapons." Both the Americans and the Russians have developed capabilities to manipulate the World's climate

In the US, the technology is being perfected under the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) as part of the ("Star Wars") Strategic Defence Initiative (SDI). Recent scientific evidence suggests that HAARP is fully operational and has the ability of potentially triggering floods, droughts, hurricanes and earthquakes. From a military standpoint, HAARP is a weapon of mass destruction. Potentially, it constitutes an instrument of conquest capable of selectively destabilising agricultural and ecological systems of entire regions.

World renowned scientist Dr. Rosalie Bertell confirms that "US military scientists ... are working on weather systems as a potential weapon. The methods include the enhancing of storms and the diverting of vapor rivers in the Earth's atmosphere to produce targeted droughts or floods." (2) Already in the 1970s, former National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski had foreseen in his book "Between Two Ages" that:

"Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised... echniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm."

[The Magistrate]

43. Sooner Or Later, Mr. Satori

You really are going to have to provide something more than this speculative drivel: you have not provided an iota of evidence that any of these things actually exist....

[anarchy1999]

45. IMHO, dear, Mr. The Magistrate,

You are completely and totally out of line. You do nothing but attack, and you attack with nothing.

Why?

See ya....

[murray hill farm]

49. yep!!!

Time to use that ignore feature on that dude..i guess that would be sir dude...the judge and holder of all truth..guess "magistrate" fits well the opinion he has of himself. yep..see ya...or no, i guess tht would be..wont see ya.

[seemslikeadream]

50. BAE Systems Receives $35 Million For HAARP Program

June 14 2004

Washington (SPX) Jun 14, 2004 - The Office of Naval Research has awarded BAE Systems a $35.4 million contract to manufacture 132 high frequency (HF) transmitters for installation in the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program's (HAARP) phased array antenna system. The contract was finalized April 19 with BAE Systems Information & Electronic Warfare Systems in Washington, D.C.

The HAARP program collects and assesses data to advance knowledge of the physical and electrical properties of the Earth's ionosphere. "We look forward to contributing to this critical program. This is an opportunity for BAE Systems to play an important role in expanding knowledge of the Earth's ionosphere.

Significant potential applications include long-range communication, sensing and satellite vulnerability to nuclear effects," said Ramy Shanny, BAE Systems vice president and general manager for Advanced Technologies (AT).

In 1992, AT was awarded a contract to design and build the Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI), the HAARP program's primary tool used to study ionospheric physics. The IRI is currently composed of 48 antenna elements and has a power capacity of 960,000 watts.

When installed, the additional 132 transmitters will give HAARP a 3.6 mega-watt capacity. The HAARP build-out is jointly funded by the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Navy and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).
more
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/missiles-04zi.html


BAE SYSTEMS North America has reached a definitive agreement with Advanced Power Technologies, Inc. (APTI), to purchase the corporation for $27 million in cash.

APTI, a private company with headquarters in Washington, D.C., focuses on intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance exploitation and information processing for defence, civil and commercial uses. APTI's core competencies include radio frequency (RF) and optical engineering, communications and networking, signal and data exploitation and knowledge creation.

Other disciplines include microwave engineering; antenna design and development; optical sensors, plasma and shock physics; advanced ordnance systems; non-destructive testing; signal and image processing; and digital control systems, including industrial-based process controls.

...

Mark Ronald, president and chief executive officer, BAE SYSTEMS North America said, "APTI's demonstrated performance, growth and high quality technical workforce align well with BAE SYSTEMS growth strategy in network centric warfare and information operations.

...

About BAE SYSTEMS:

BAE SYSTEMS is a systems company, innovating for a safer world. BAE SYSTEMS employs nearly 100,000 people including joint ventures, and has annual sales of around $19 billion. The company offers a global capability in air, sea, land and space with a world-class prime contracting ability supported by a range of key skills. BAE SYSTEMS designs, manufactures and supports military aircraft, surface ships, submarines, radar, avionics, communications, electronics, guided weapon systems and a range of other defence products.

BAE SYSTEMS is dedicated to making the intelligent connections needed to deliver innovative solutions.
more
http://www.globenet.free-online.co.uk/index.htm


How and why was electronic warfare carried out in rural Tennessee?

From the known profile of electronic weaponry, the electronic attack upon WJKM appears to have been caused by a tactical electromagnetic weapon, emitting a directed electromagnetic plasma, beam, pulse, etc. at the target. Electronic weapons with this capability are known, and can be land mounted in a facility like the former power plant, mounted in portable facilities like vans, trucks, helicopters or airplanes.

Electronic weapons may even be space-based, on satellite platforms. This reporter has personally met with an Assistant Secretary of Defense at the Pentagon who confirmed the existence of such secret space-based weapons as early as 1977.

An alternative electronic warfare delivery system may involve newly constructed relays for the HAARP installation in Alaska. The potential tactical electronic warfare applications of HAARP are under investigation. Serious public interest researchers maintain that HAARP's electromagnetic energy may cause effects such as earthquakes, such as occurred on July 7 in Hartsville. Electromagnetic weapons have been used in tectonic warfare, intentionally causing earthquakes. Electromagnetic pulse energy accompanies most earthquakes. Research shows that ultra low frequencies emitted by the HAARP installation may affect the human limbic system, and be used for mood management and mind control.

The close resemblance of the Hartsville attack to other U.S. Air Force electronic warfare led to speculation that radio station WJKM may have been chosen as a test target for a clandestine electronic warfare unit located within the power facility, or to which the power facility serves as electronic relay point. The likelihood that the electronic attack was accidental, rather than an intentional military test, is low, given that the targets were media outlets.
more
http://www.ecologynews.com/cuenews31.html


BAE Systems is Europe's largest arms exporter. BAE Systems is dedicated to producing innovative and high-specification ways of killing and maiming people. Satisfied BAE customers include Saddam Hussein in Iraq, General Pinochet in Chile, and the House of Saud. Are you a feudal Middle Eastern dictatorship that tortures your political opponents - and innocent British citizens? BAE Systems says: No problem! We just want your cash.
more
http://www.angloarabia.com/


Carlyle Interested in BAE's Shipbuilding Unit, Telegraph Says
July 25 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. buyout firm Carlyle Group, whose senior advisers have included former President George H.W. Bush, has expressed interest in buying BAE Systems Plc's shipbuilding business, the Sunday Telegraph reported, without citing sources.

The paper said Carlyle hasn't decided if an offer would include BAE's submarine operations at Barrow-in-Furness, England, and the sale of Britain's only submarine business to a foreign company may be politically sensitive.

BAE's Chief Executive Mike Turner said July 12 that Europe's largest weapons maker is in talks with several ``interested parties'' about selling its unprofitable shipbuilding unit, which makes Type 45 destroyers and Astute submarines. The company hasn't yet outlined what assets would be included in a sale.

Any bidder for Barrow would compete with DML, which runs the Devonport Royal Dockyard, and is 51 percent owned by Halliburton Co., the oilfield contractor led by Vice President Dick Cheney before he returned to politics in 2000, the paper said. The U.K.'s VT Group Plc has also said it's interested in BAE's shipbuilding yards in Barrow and Glasgow, Scotland.
more
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=a...

From The Sunday Times
Snip
David Leppard and Robert Winnett

BRITAIN’S biggest defence company has been accused by a whistleblower of operating a £60m “slush fund” to channel “bribes” to members of Saudi Arabia’s royal family. BAE Systems now faces a criminal investigation over allegations that it used Peter Gardiner, a reputable travel agent from St Albans, Hertfordshire, to lavish its Saudi clients with gifts and luxury holidays.

Gardiner has given details of the payments in interviews with the Serious Fraud Office (SFO). Speaking publicly for the first time, he told The Sunday Times that he had spent £60m on BAE’s behalf. “It was an enormous amount of money. It’s more a question of what we didn’t spend it on than what we did,” said Gardiner.

The slush fund — spent by Gardiner over 13 years from 1989 and 2002 — provided a £170,000 Rolls-Royce, other luxury cars, London apartments, private air travel and accommodation in five-star hotels in Hawaii, Los Angeles, Paris and New York. Under separate arrangements, middlemen also arranged prostitutes for some dignitaries.

The largesse was extended to Saudi officials and members of the country’s large royal family who controlled the kingdom’s arms procurement, the chief source of BAE’s income over the past 18 years.
more
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1190953,00.html

By Sylvia Pfeifer (Filed: 25/07/2004)

An American private equity group with close links to the Bush administration has emerged as a leading contender to acquire the shipbuilding business of BAE Systems, Britain's largest defence company.

Carlyle, which specialises in defence deals, is known for its links to the White House.

Until last year it counted George Bush Sr, the former US president, among its advisers. George W Bush, the US president, once served on the board of directors of Caterair, an airline catering company owned by Carlyle. James Baker, the former US secretary of state, and John Major, the former prime minister, both hold senior positions in the private equity group.

Carlyle has not yet decided whether its possible offer would include BAE's submarine operations at Barrrow-in-Furness. However, the sale of what is Britain's only submarine business to a foreign company could be politically sensitive.

Any bidder for Barrow will face competition from DML, the company that runs the Devonport Royal Dockyard. DML is 51 per cent owned by Halliburton, the US oil services company that used to be run by Dick Cheney, the US vice-president.


Analysts say one possibility would be for DML to link up with either VT or Carlyle to buy the yards. However, it is still not certain that BAE will proceed with the sale. The company has yet to issue a formal sales memorandum
more
http://www.money.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2004/07/25/cnbae25.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2004/07/25/ixfrontcity.html

The defence firm and the slush fund
Robert Winnett and David Leppard

FOR the Saudi princes and princesses it was just another luxury trip to the paradise island of Oahu in Hawaii. Under the shadow of Diamond Head, the island’s volcano, they enjoyed the run of one of the world’s best hotels while spending thousands in gourmet restaurants and designer boutiques.

The party of 50 people checked into its usual floor of suites at the Kahala Mandarin Oriental hotel. It has its own dolphins in a private blue lagoon, spas and “beach butlers” to provide face sprays, cooling drinks and sunshades. They hired a fleet of cars and after a few days travelled in a private Boeing 707 to another Hawaiian island, Maui, to stay at the five-star Grand Wailea hotel. The total cost of the trip in August 1998 was more than £250,000, including £25,000 on car hire.

For the Saudis, such holidays are part of the trappings of their royal status and influence in the oil-rich desert kingdom. But the trip to Oahu and similar jaunts are now attracting the attention of Britain’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO).

This weekend, details of the trip and others funded by BAE Systems, Britain’s biggest defence company, have been disclosed by a whistleblower to The Sunday Times.
more
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1190346,0...


BAE probed on £60m Saudi slush fund
From The Sunday Times
Snip
David Leppard and Robert Winnett

BRITAIN’S biggest defence company has been accused by a whistleblower of operating a £60m “slush fund” to channel “bribes” to members of Saudi Arabia’s royal family. BAE Systems now faces a criminal investigation over allegations that it used Peter Gardiner, a reputable travel agent from St Albans, Hertfordshire, to lavish its Saudi clients with gifts and luxury holidays.

Gardiner has given details of the payments in interviews with the Serious Fraud Office (SFO). Speaking publicly for the first time, he told The Sunday Times that he had spent £60m on BAE’s behalf. “It was an enormous amount of money. It’s more a question of what we didn’t spend it on than what we did,” said Gardiner.

The slush fund — spent by Gardiner over 13 years from 1989 and 2002 — provided a £170,000 Rolls-Royce, other luxury cars, London apartments, private air travel and accommodation in five-star hotels in Hawaii, Los Angeles, Paris and New York. Under separate arrangements, middlemen also arranged prostitutes for some dignitaries.

The largesse was extended to Saudi officials and members of the country’s large royal family who controlled the kingdom’s arms procurement, the chief source of BAE’s income over the past 18 years.

From:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1190953,00...

BAE wins £1bn Hawk contract

from the Guardian
Wednesday September 3, 2003
BAE Systems, Britain's biggest weapons maker, today clinched a contentious £1bn order to supply Hawk training aircraft to India, in a contract for which Tony Blair personally lobbied.
The deal, in negotiation for more than a decade, has sparked much political contention in Britain.
(snip)
Critics have argued that the sale lays the British government open to charges of hypocrisy, as it was pushing for a big arms deal at the same time as playing peacemaker between India and Pakistan over the disputed territory of Kashmir.
ales to India and Pakistan, despite political tension between the two regional rivals.

more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1034880,00.html

400 boxes of documents --- from Traveller’s World

Although such hospitality is considered routine in some Third World countries, it is a criminal offence for British companies to pay bribes to overseas officials. Fraud investigators are also concerned about the way the payments were described in the company’s accounts.
The SFO is now studying Gardiner’s statement, together with the contents of nearly 400 boxes of documents that he has volunteered from Traveller’s World, his company.

Last week Gardiner said his company had acted entirely properly. He approached the SFO in March and has been helping them and the police uncover full details of the slush fund since then. The possibility of a criminal investigation into BAE marks a new low for the defence company, once the darling of new Labour. It has fallen out of favour after being accused of massive overspending on a series of Ministry of Defence contracts.

Gardiner’s evidence spans much of the period of the Al-Yamamah arms deal, Britain’s biggest export contract. It resulted in the sale of more than £20 billion worth of aircraft, such as Tornado and Hawk jets, and other military equipment to the oil-rich state.

Whitehall officials said last week they were shocked by the scale of the alleged slush fund. The government is determined to show that all cases of alleged corruption will be fully investigated, but the case is highly sensitive.
more
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1190953,00.html


UK arms firm's £60m Saudi slush fund
Police inquiry into arms firm's £60m slush fund

David Leigh and Rob Evans
Tuesday May 4, 2004
The Guardian

...

Files have been seized by Ministry of Defence police alleging corruption on a massive scale by Britain's biggest arms firm, BAE Systems. Payments totalling more than £60m to prominent Saudis are listed, a far greater amount than has been previously alleged.
MoD fraud squad detectives investigating allegations of bribery of a civil servant have seized 386 boxes of "slush fund" accounts.

Most explosively, the documents detail £17m in benefits and cash allegedly paid by BAE, which is chaired by Sir Dick Evans, to the key Saudi politician in charge of British arms purchases, Prince Turki bin Nasser. He is recorded under the codename "PB", alleged to mean "principal beneficiary".

BAE is trying to secure another £1.5bn of arms deals from the Saudi regime, following the sale of planes, missiles and warships worth £50bn to them over the past 15 years.

The documents list by name every Saudi official alleged to have received benefits from BAE in recent years. These include a number of military attaches at Saudi Arabia's London embassy, recorded as being provided with luxury London houses at BAE's expense.
more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/story/0,10674,1209014,00.html


BAE Systems is offering its staff in Saudi Arabia an extra £1,000 a month in an attempt to stop the exodus of staff, one employee has told BBC News Online. The indefinite monthly payment follows a one-off payment of £4,500 in December after housing compounds were bombed in May 2003, killing 35 people.

The security situation has deteriorated since then. Earlier this month al-Qaeda militants beheaded an American engineer they had been holding hostage.

The British-owned defence firm made the £1,000 cash offer in an e-mail to each of its 2,400 staff in Saudi Arabia, describing it as an "emergency security payment", the employee said.

The employee said that people have been on edge since the housing compounds came under fire in May 2003 but that employees were encouraged to stay on the payroll to get the lump-sum offer in December.
more
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3837407.stm

Includes replies to:
"Are you an expatriate working in Saudi Arabia? Are you pondering to leave or is the security situation still under control? And how is your company persuading you to stay? Tell us your experiences.At the request of our readers in Saudi Arabia e-mailing us their stories, all names have been withheld"


US war system reaps $2bn for BAE

David Gow
Saturday July 19, 2003
The Guardian

BAE Systems, Britain's biggest defence manufacturer, yesterday secured its place at the heart of the Pentagon's visionary new electronic warfare programme, with a contract from Boeing worth up to $2bn.

It is seen by the Pentagon as capable of delivering a precise firepower that will dwarf the "shock and awe" seen in Iraq this year.
BAE's selection, along with Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman and Raytheon, America's biggest defence contractors, buttresses its ambition to become a substantial US military supplier.

The company, at loggerheads with the British government, has made no secret of its ultimate plans for merger with the big US players such as Boeing or Lockheed, though talk of an imminent deal is too premature.

The highly classified work of BAE's two US units, one of them acquired from Lockheed and both run by US citizens, will be kept secret from the company's main British businesses under US laws, which forbid such technology transfer - a restriction that Tony Blair asked to be lifted in his Washington visit this week.

Jack Dromey, chief defence industry negotiator at the TGWU, said the plans would mean the end of a £70m project, known as Red Dragon, to build a repair facility in the centre of a new aviation park at RAF St Athans, near Cardiff.
more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,1001427,00.html


BAE Systems enters agreement with Carlyle Group

BAE Systems North America has reached agreement with The Carlyle Group, Washington, D.C., to spin out its Imaging Sensors business located at Milpitas, Calif.
Imaging Sensors was previously part of BAE Systems Reconnaissance and Surveillance Systems of Syosset, N.Y. In the transaction, BAE Systems provided the assets of Imaging Sensors to form a new company, Fairchild Imaging, Inc. Closing of the agreement occurred April 6, 2001.
The core competencies of the new company, Fairchild Imaging, are in charged coupled device development and fabrication and electronic imaging systems. This company pioneered the development of CCD imaging technologies and has continued to innovate in a number of commercial product areas serving medical, dental and industrial surveillance markets. It currently employs 123 people.
"Fairchild Imaging is an excellent business. This transaction is part of our continuing strategic alignment to our aerospace core competencies, and provides Fairchild Imaging with great opportunity for future investment growth and success in its new commercial markets as well," said Mark Ronald, president and CEO, BAE Systems North America.
Under the terms of the transaction, BAE Systems North America retains an equity interest in Fairchild Imaging. The new company will continue to provide CCD products to the Reconnaissance and Surveillance Systems business within BAE Systems North America. Financial terms were not disclosed.
MORE
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=5120&session=dae.4457831.1091081148.QQiTvMOa9dUAAHr5Xjo&modele=jdc_1

UK: MoD official took BAE gifts
David Leigh and Rob Evans
Tuesday April 6, 2004
The Guardian

A slush fund run by Britain's biggest arms firm, BAE Systems, has been providing free holidays to a low-paid civil servant at the Ministry of Defence, according to allegations made to the Guardian.

The information has been passed to the Serious Fraud Office, which is planning to interview a key witness today.

...

The firm, which uses a battery of methods to persuade Britain and regimes all over the world to buy its weapons, has frequently been at the centre of corruption allegations abroad. The Guardian disclosed this year that since Labour legislated against bribery of foreign public officials, BAE has secretly shifted its files of payments to agents and foreign politicians into a vault in Geneva. BAE is also alleged to be using Swiss banks and offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands to conceal its transactions.

The Guardian also disclosed allegations that BAE has been operating a £20m slush fund to provide prostitutes, yachts and free trips for Saudis. This fund, according to the documents, also appears to have been used to finance the free holidays for Mr Porter. BAE has refused to respond to all these allegations, other than to make a generalised denial of wrongdoing.
more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,1186782,00.html


BAE chairman named in 'slush fund' files
David Leigh and Rob Evans
Wednesday May 5, 2004
The Guardian

...

Sir Dick Evans, the retiring chairman of BAE who faces his his final shareholders meeting today, has been named in allegations concerning the arms firm's £60m "slush fund", according to documents seen by the Guardian.

His name is referred to in a number of alleged phone calls, emails and meetings. The slush fund allegations are under investigation by Ministry of Defence police.

Sir Dick, who also faces questioning on arms procurement by MPs on the Commons defence committee this afternoon, remained silent yesterday in the face of the allegations about him.

Documents previously seized by MoD police detail £17m of alleged payments to a Saudi responsible for arms purchases from Britain, Prince Turki bin Nasser.
more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/story/0,10674,1209753,00.html


DRS Technologies Receives $23.3 Million Contract to Provide High-Frequency Radio Transmitters for U.S. Government
Tuesday June 15, 9:30 am ET

PARSIPPANY, N.J.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 15, 2004--DRS Technologies, Inc. (NYSE: DRS - News) announced today that it has received a $23.3 million contract, including options, to provide high-frequency (HF) radio transmitters for the High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP), which supports a U.S. government Arctic research facility being built to study the Earth's upper atmosphere.
The $11.5 million base contract was awarded to DRS by BAE Systems PLC (LSE: BA.L - News). For this award, DRS will manufacture more than 60 Model D616G 10-Kilowatt Dual Transmitters to fulfill the transmitter requirements for the HAARP program. Work for this order will be performed by the company's DRS Broadcast Technology unit in Dallas, Texas. Product deliveries to BAE Systems' Information and Electronic Warfare Systems in Washington, D.C., are scheduled to begin in March 2005 and continue for approximately one year.

"We are pleased to continue our role as a premier supplier of transmitters for the HAARP program," said Steven T. Schorer, president of DRS's C4I Group. "This award enhances DRS's position as a leader in high-technology radio frequency solutions for secure and tactical communications systems supporting the applications of the government scientific research community."

The high-frequency or short-wave Model D616G Transmitters were designed specifically for the U.S. government HAARP research facility. Currently, the ionosphere provides long-range capabilities for commercial ship-to-shore communications, transoceanic aircraft links, and military communications and surveillance systems.

A primary goal of HAARP is to understand how variations in the sun's radiation affect the performance of radio systems and to improve military command, control, communications and surveillance systems.

DRS Broadcast Technology, formerly known as Continental Electronics, is a global leader in broadcast transmitter equipment. It is the foremost supplier of advanced radio frequency transmission technology and the world's most experienced provider of the highest power radio broadcast equipment, offering a full range of products for broadcasting, military and scientific applications.

DRS Technologies, headquartered in Parsippany, New Jersey, provides leading edge products and services to defense, government intelligence and commercial customers. Focused on defense technology, DRS develops and manufactures a broad range of mission critical systems. The company employs 5,800 people worldwide
more
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040615/155095_1.html

[anarchy1999]

51. Thank you "seemslikeadream". Where is Mr. Magistrate now?

Always can count on an elder to do a slam-dunk. Wow, and once again thank you on behalf of us all.

[The Magistrate]

54. The Only Relevant Point In All This, My Friend

Is the provision of the trifling sums of thirty-five millions and twenty-three millions for the communications project. That would hardly seem sufficient to finance a doomsday machine of the sort some have suggested here, as one generally gets what one pays for, particularly in weaponry, and global dominion does not come cheap.

That the company is a major supplier of military gear, and as unscrupulous as such companies have tended to be throughout history, has no bearing on the claims concerning the capabilities of the equipment under discussion: it is not remotely sufficient to establish that equipment can control weather or cook vast areas of countryside.

The "Ecology News" account would seem little more than a mis-placed script for an X-Files episode....

[anarchy1999]

55. Did you ever wonder where the missing billions have gone that the

Pentagon and the DOD can not account for? Hmmmm? Just check with the GAO and the OMB, okay? Maybe they can help.

[The Magistrate]

56. But Of Course, Ma'am

You, sitting at your key-board, know exactly where, eh?

"The mind wobbles...."

[anarchy1999]

57. Your "sirs" and your "ma'ams" get you nowhere and are really rather

offensive. You never even know if it is a sir or ma'am you are addressing. You might want to consider some other way of addressing us all.

[Ian David]

61. We shouldn't be too harsh on people who believe this nonsense

Look at it this way:

1) The public education system has thoroughly failed to provide most Americans with a solid grounding in science.

2) The media feeds us a constant diet of "crap science." Every day the TV is full of shows about psychic detectives, alien abduction, the lost city of Atlantis, and other such nonsense. All too often, this is presented as a "documentary."

3) Go to a book store and look at the "science" section. It is often limited to one shelf OR LESS. Mixed in with the science books, you'll often find such subjects as crystal power, psychic ability, the lost city of Atlantis, and other non-science nonsense that belong in the New Age section, and not in the Science section. I have made a habit of re-locating these books within the stores myself.

Is it any wonder that so many people are confused about what is science and what is New Age Crystal Clutching Nonsense?

Read the introduction to "The Demon Haunted World," by Carl Sagan. He recounts a conversation he had with a New York taxi driver.

These people spend a great deal of time studying and reading what they HAVE BEEN FOOLED INTO THINKING IS SCIENCE!

They are not necessarily STUPID. They have been TRICKED.

They have invested a great deal of time and energy in this garbage that they have been fed. It is very difficult to make someone come to grips with the fact that they have invested a great deal of time and energy in something that is wrong.

On the other hand, they could actually be freepers come here to make us look bad so The New York Times can say, "The other message boards are making fun of DemocraticUnderground.com for saying the oil companies caused the tsunami and that HAARP will turn the oceans into chocolate milk."

On edit:

To answer someone's question, we are NOT trying to restrict what you post to things that aren't stupid.

We just have to make sure that nonsense does not go un-challenged, lest people look at us and think we are all in agreement about these silly things.

Just look at what The New York Times did with the whole oil company / tsunami fiasco. We argued and debunked it time and again, but they still made us out to be kooks and crackpots. They never mentioned that the majority here were shouting down the bunk. Instead, they said that OTHER (read: Republican) message boards were the sane ones debunking us.

You can post whatever you want, but realize that we can not let silly, wrong-headed ideas go un-answered, or else we will ALL look like a bunch of ill-informed cooks and crackpots.

[anarchy1999]

62. Welcome to DU, you must not have been welcomed enough.

A member since Nov 24 of 2004 telling me what to post and to not post and what might be perceived as "silly".

You've got guts.

"You can post whatever you want, but realize that we can not let silly, wrong-headed ideas go un-answered, or else we will ALL look like a bunch of ill-informed cooks and crackpots."

Remind me once again, how long have you been around?

And by the way did you mean to say kooks or did you really mean "cooks"?

[Ian David]

66. Sorry, I meant to say kooks

[Frangible]

58. Even *IF* HAARP could alter the weather

And I'm kind of dubious of that... weather cannot cause an earthquake. The government causing a giant earthquake is a bit much for even the X-Files.

(btw: the X-Files episode that dealt with HAARP-like technology, involved a power surge in the HAARP array that destroyed people's inner ear such that it fatally ruptured when they stopped moving. Which actually isn't far off from sonar and whales. But no earthquakes or tsunamis.)

[Zynx]

60. Exactly.

[anarchy1999]

63. You guys really are not paying attention are you? They can steal an

election, they can lose trillions in the Pentagon and yet this one escapes you.

Amazing, just amazing.

Once again, might I suggest go to google and enter Tesla or Bearden or ......

the list is endless.

Don't think for a minute it can't be done, if you do you are only fooling yourself.

[Frangible]

64. No sorry, it can't be done.

Man cannot create earthquakes like that. We do not have that power... not us, not the Republicans, no one.

[Ian David]

67. Not all conspiracy theories are created equal

Because you believe some does not mean you have to believe ALL of them.

Just because the Republicans stole the election does not mean they also are trying to blow-up the sun.

And just because Tesla did some incredible stuff does NOT mean everything attributed to him either exists or functions "as advertised."

I could run around saying Albert Einstein built a time machine in his basement and then say, "I suggest you go google Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawking or Isaac Newton or... the list is endless."

Look, I am NOT saying you are stupid. I am saying that the media and others have been feeding you a constant diet of nonsense and have tricked you into believing this is real.

How can you distrust the media about the elections, yet still believe the media when they broadcast Unsolved Mysteries and Secrets of Area 51?

This is not science.

This is what they want you to think is sciene.

[Donkeyboy75]

69. I'm sorry,

but you are only fooling yourself. You use the ability of the Pentagon to lose trillions to justify that they could start a calamitous earthquake? Bravo! Not only does this line of reasoning require the abandonment of logic - it also requires the ignorance of the laws of physics (and all science, for that matter).

[fujiyama]

59. I'm annoyed

that anyone would try to bring up Bhopal's name just to further some outlandish, nonsensical "theory" on the cause of the earthquakes.

We are really losing sight of what's important here and it's unfortunate. Some people here seem distracted by this. The real need is making sure the government is taking advantage of this by establishing a semi permanent military occuptaion of the region. And while I admire any organization's relief efforts in the region, I am troubled by a few religious oeganizations using this more as an opportunity for further their evangelical goals.

That and we should be focusing on the warning system and whether the US government (as well as others) did everything they could to warn the people beforehand.

[Ian David]

65. I don't care about HAARP. Here is what I want to know about

"According to Defence News, April 13 - 19, 1992, the US deployed an electromagnetic pulse weapon (EMP) in Desert Storm, designed to mimic the flash of electricity from a nuclear bomb."

Documentation / sources, please?

The Sandia National Laboratory had built a 23,000 square metre laboratory on the Kirkland Air Force Base, 1989, to house the Hermes III electron beam generator capable of producing 20 Trillion Watt pulses lasting 20 billionths to 25 billionths of a second. This X-ray simulator is called a Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator. A stream of electrons hitting a metal plate can produce a pulsed X-ray or gamma ray. Hermes II had produced electron beams since 1974. Thes devises were apparently tested during the Gulf War, although detailed information on them is sparce.

Sparce?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sparce
1 entry found for sparce.
SPARCE: (in Acronym Finder)
Schools of the Pacific Rainfall Climate Experiment

Perhaps this brilliantly qualified doctor meant to say "sparse."
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sparse


Documentation / sources, please about "thes devises(sic)"

Electromagnetic pulse
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=site:www.defensenews.com+%22electromagnetic+pulse%22
http://www.atpco.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?config=dnnewarchives&restrict=&exclude=&method=and&format=builtin-long&sort=time&words=electromagnetic%20pulse
http://www.atpco.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?config=dnnewsitesearch&restrict=&exclude=&method=and&format=builtin-long&sort=score&words=electromagnetic%20pulse

Hmmm... nothing there about an EMP weapon being used in Iraq.


Hermes III and Iraq:

Of particular importance are NWE simulators that can produce pulses with peak power greater than 25 TW from sources with impedance <0.1 ohm and having vacuum power flow and conditioning that can couple to a radiating load having a circular area less than 500 cm 2. These performance levels exceed the publicly available figures for the SATURN and HERMES III accelerators at Sandia National Laboratory.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/test.htm

Yay, Hermes III and the Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator exist!
But like HAARP, Hermes isn't ACTUALLY a weapon. It is a device for TESTING and SIMULATING weapons.

It can SOMEDAY be used for igniting fusion in fusion reactors.
Again, that is not a weapon, despite what misconceptions someone may have about fusion reactors.

And it could also be used to kill germs in drinking water.

And nothing there talks about using it as a weapon in Iraq.

I can't find any credible (non-UFO / Alien / Psychic) source that talks about us using these things against Iraq. They talk about Iraq experimenting with these technologies, but not about Iraq being attacked with them.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Hermes+III%22+Iraq&btnG=Search

Again, these are NOT weapons. They are tools for testing and designing weapons.

You can not "shoot someone" with Hermes III or the Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator.


Sandia Labs tool gets international attention at assembly
By Nina Lanza
Tribune Reporter

<snip>
Sandia scientists recently conducted experiments on the machine that strongly suggest it could be a successful technical path to the elusive goal of creating controllable fusion energy usable in civilian applications.
<snip>
Some physicists believe fusion energy could be a safe, plentiful and possibly cheap source of global energy. However, despite more than 50 years of research, physicists have been unable to harness fusion, which is the energy that powers the sun, stars and nuclear bombs.

Z was previously known as the Particle Beam Fusion Accelerator II but was failing in the Department of Energy's military fusion program until Sandia scientists convinced DOE to allow them to convert the machine into the Z (pinch) Accelerator, producing X-rays instead of ion beams.

Z has exceeded the expectations of even its most vocal advocates, breaking its own world records in generating X-rays and has become the most popular experimental machine for U.S. nuclear weapons scientists.

The machine's primary mission is to simulate the radiation environment of a nuclear bomb as part of DOE's nuclear Stockpile Stewardship Program, aimed at ensuring the nation's warheads are safe, reliable and secure.

Z has become a crucial component in the program, which aims to use simulators and the world's fastest supercomputers to certify existing U.S. nuclear warheads without actually blowing up nuclear bombs in underground tests. Like other bomb simulators, at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, Z's powerful bursts of energy provide data for computer simulations that are used to predict the physics and effects of a nuclear blast.

more:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:mO2zIbQ-gI4J:www.abqtrib.com/archives/news02/062902_news_sandia.shtml+%22Particle+Beam+Fusion+Accelerator%22+Iraq&hl=en

I understand that I can not prove a negative.

It is the original poster's job to prove that it is true.

Telling us, "this UFO kook site says that defense weekly says we used it" does not fulfill the burden of proof.

Saying, "this person is a super-smart expert and even though they can't spell, you should believe them" is also not good enough.

The Nobel Prize winning chemist Linus Pauling created a whole movement that encouraged people to take insanely MASSIVE doses of Vitamin C, saying it would prevent colds, flu and cancer. Linus Pauling was a genius. But he was also extremely WRONG about Vitamin C. It was eventually proved that such INSANELY high doses of Vitamin C were dangerous. Oh, and Linus Pauling died from cancer.

Even the most brilliant genius in the world can be devastatingly wrong.

The burden of proof lies with the person making the extraordinary claim.

Out of the barely 200 message posts they have made, how many are factually substantiated, and how many are fairytale pseudoscience?

The original poster has so far not provided any legitimate evidence to back-up their claims.

[Donkeyboy75]

70. Sadly, Ian,

that type of common sense thinking and reasoning goes ignored by those who want to believe the fantastic. And, welcome to DU.

[Ian David]

72. Thanks. I just don't get it

(I'm going to be referring to people as "you" in this post, but I don't mean you personally, Donkeyboy).

There are people who love Alternative Medicine with all their hearts, because it isn't regulated by the "oppressive" FDA that wants to "suppress" all the wonderful stuff that people who usually died by the age of 35 came up with 2,000 years ago.

Those same people decry the Republicans for wanting to de-regulate everything ELSE about our safety.

And many of those same people will scream from the highest hill that Nutrasweet is poison, because Orin Hatch snuck it past the FDA.

And this is the SAME Orin Hatch that was the architect of the 1994 act that exempted alternative medicine as a "nutritional supplement" from being scrutinized by the FDA.

So, the thinking goes:

When the FDA is not allowed to scrutinize alternative medicine, this is GOOD -- even though it was Orin Hatch's idea.

When the FDA is not allowed to scrutinize Nutrasweet, this is BAD-- especially since it was Orin Hatch's idea.

We scream from the highest hill that the mainstream media is lying to us, they are deceiving us, and they are un-trustworthy. We say the media has failed to educate the public about Bush, the war in Iraq, and election fraud.

Yet some of us trust that same mainstream media to "educate" us about "science."

Well, this may be news to some, but The Discovery Channel, A&E, The History Channel, The Sci-fi Channel, Geraldo Rivera, Johnathan Frakes, Bryant Gumbel, and the broadcast networks-- They are all to science what FOX News is to politics.

Evaluating scientific claims on the basis of what you have seen on TV is like going to a voting booth based on what Bill O'Reilly tells you.

If you have been fed bad information from TV, you are more likely to seek confirmatory evidence from books and internet sources. Once you're put on the wrong path, you tend to stay on that wrong path.

When Geraldo Rivera tells you about UFOs at Area 51, you run out and buy books about "UFO Conspiracies" and become "educated" about it, and begin to believe you are "learning science." You start thinking about what you have read in books, heard on Art Bell, and seen on the internet, and eventually forget it was Geraldo where you first learned that this was "science" in the first place.

Why is it so hard for people who know they have been lied to about something important to realize they have been lied to about something ELSE that is important?

Why do you think we need to push so hard to keep Evolution in schools, and Creationism out of them? It's because when people are lied to, they will reach the wrong conclusions.

The media lies about politics. The media lies about science, and call it "infotainment."

It is not that these people here are stupid.

Incredibly stubborn, yes. But not necessarily stupid.

The problem is THEY HAVE BEEN LIED TO.

I will say again:

The mainstream media lies about politics.

The mainstream media lies about science.

Those two statements are easy to reconcile.

You have been lied to.

------

More info:

Covering Science: Why the Media So Seldom Get It Right (Skeptical Briefs June 1995) (750)
http://www.csicop.org/sb/9506/media.html

When the Media Tell Half the Story; Media Watch (Skeptical Inquirer May 1997) (1000)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9705/media-watch.html

Science and Reason in Film and Television (Skeptical Inquirer January 1996) (125)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9601/media.html

Science and the Media (CSICOP Web Column) (375)
http://www.csicop.org/scienceandmedia/index.html

Conspiracy Theories and Paranoia: Notes from a Mind-Control Conference (Skeptical Inquirer September 1996) (125)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9609/conspiracy.html

Art Bell, Heaven's Gate, and Journalistic Integrity (Skeptical Inquirer July 1997) (125)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9707/art-bell.html

Battle Between Political Agendas and Science (Skeptical Inquirer November 1997) (125)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9711/conference.html

2002: The Year of the Conspiracy Crank (Skeptical Briefs December 2002) (83)
http://www.csicop.org/sb/2002-12/conspiracy.html

CSICOP / News / The Phantom Menace of Superstition in Film and Television (8)
http://www.csicop.org/articles/19990527-starwars/index.html





`Independent UFO Investigation' and Media Gullibility (Skeptical Inquirer September 1998) (750)
http://www.csicop.org/si/9809/sheaffer.html


Why Is Pseudoscience Dangerous? (Skeptical Inquirer July 2002) (125)
http://www.csicop.org/si/2002-07/dangerous.html

Development of Beliefs in Paranormal and Supernatural Phenomena (Skeptical Inquirer Mar 2004) (125)
http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-03/belief.html

[Donkeyboy75]

74. Another problem

is that even if lying isn't occurring, science reporting is incredibly inaccurate. I'm a scientist, and keep abreast of a few different fields. I really don't think I've ever read a popular media story involving science that doesn't have a glaring factual error...or distortion of staggering proportions. Most often it's due to lazy/incompetent reporting, but unfortunately the scientists themselves being interviewed will also exaggerate the impact of their results/inventions.

All that aside, the sources listed above are pure conjecture, and there's not even a shred of evidence in any of them. I firmly believe that many people wish to live in exciting and dangerous times, and will believe anything to allow themselves to live in that fantasy world.

[satori]

71. Research question

I am not a scientist. If you have any questions about the article I suggest you contact the author of the article and ask her any and all questions you may have.

[Ian David]

73. I'm not asking you to break out the Bunsen burners and telescopes

You've spent a great deal of time and energy defending the position of the self-appointed Bhopal "expert," and so far your only arguments have been:

1) She's really smart

2) I'm not a scientist, ask HER.

I'm not asking you to go deep undercover, sneak past the Klingons and Daleks, and examine Sandia National Laboratories with your Mark IV Tricorder and sonic screwdriver.

All I am asking for (and have been asking for) is that you find some credible (non-ufo, non-psychic, non-Art-Bell, non-FOX-News, non-Al-Jazeera) source that will verify that:
1) We have used an EMP weapon in Iraq
2) We have used the Hermes III / particle accelerator as a weapon

You don't have to march around the Iraqi desert with a Geiger counter and divining rod.

Just find me a good newspaper or magazine article.

I've done a fairly good job showing that no such thing exists. I could be wrong, but the burden of proof is not for me to disprove your ideas, but for you to prove them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the burden of proof lies with he who makes the claim.

You haven't demonstrated any ORDINARY evidence, let alone EXTRAORDINARY. I'd be happy with just ordinary.

Just find me a good newspaper or magazine article.

It's not rocket science.

[bobthedrummer]

75. Kick.

:dem::kick: