Degrees from 'Bob Jones University', 'Oral Roberts University' etc-Assets?

[UdoKier]

Poll question: Degrees from 'Bob Jones University', 'Oral Roberts University' etc-Assets?

Is a degree from 'Bob Jones University', 'Oral Roberts University' or other evangelist-oriented universities an asset to a career in the red states?

My wife wants to send our kids to Soka University, which is run by her buddhist religion, and I worry that it would be a hindrance when looking for work. I sure as hell wouldn't hire someone who went to one of those 'schools'.

[Chipper Chat]

1. The real name of "Oral Roberts University " is...

"Rectal Roberts University"

[u4ic]

18. Yes, he had to change it

when he realized he can get pregnant by oral sex, too. :evilgrin:

[bobbieinok]

50. ORU student joke I once heard

A: I go to Oral Roberts University

B: The popcorn school???

A: No, no. Not Orville Redenbacher, Oral Roberts

[stray cat]

2. It is a hindrance unless you want a job that fits well with the education.

[UdoKier]

3. Like Televangelist!

I understand there are thousands of openings!

[Jesus H. Christ]

4. Bob Jones lost accreditation years ago.

For being, essentially, a white supremacist camp. So basically it's a degree mill.

Don't know about Oral Roberts U.

[jmowreader]

20. I didn't think BJU was ever accredited

ORU is accredited by the Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education (http://www.okhighered.org/).

Your assessment of BJU (a similar one can be made for Pensacola Christian College) is correct: it's a diploma mill.

[greyfox]

32. Best education

one can get is at ORU, like it or not.

[Cobalt Violet]

38. Ha Ha,that a good one.!

Are you a professional comic?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

44. No he isn't

Comedians aren't a threat to mankind.

[Sterling]

56. You need to get the fuck out of Dumbfuckistan if that is what you think

ORU maybe great for Oklahoma, not even sure if that is the case but you might want to look into the other schools in the US before you say such foolish things about ORU.

[donco6]

67. BWAAA Ha! Good one.

Could be true if your career goal is a pedophilic televangelist, I suppose.

[Jesus H. Christ]

39. No, I believe it was accredited years ago.

There was a famous court case when they lost accreditation. Somebody famous involving Bush argued for Bob Jones. I can't remember if it was John Ashcroft or the racist judge Bush tried to appoint a couple years ago.

[bobbieinok]

55. Oral Roberts U is fully accredited....the engineering school, the nursing

school, and the school of education are additionally fully accredited by the relevant agencies......apparently they HAVE to be accredited by their professional groups' accrediting arms

I think there's also a professional theological accrediting arm....if so, ORU's theology school (undergrad and grad) is accredited by this arm

[greyfox]

62. Yep.... that was weird

and they can hold a candle to any school around...

[enki23]

5. is it *actually* accredited?

none of the above are really accredited, are they? they have their own pretend accreditation, of course, but not through a source recognized by the u.s. department of education, which only recognizes MSA, NASC, NCA, NEASC, SACS, WASC.

[IHeart1993]

6. Does Bob Jones University have a science department?

Or Creationism degree.

[jmowreader]

21. They appear to have a science department, according to their website

They also have eighteen different religion courses (BJU teaches men and women separately in the Good Book), including two different Missionary Aviation tracks--flight and maintenance.

[Sterling]

57. Thats where they probably trained the fundies that did 9-11

I think it was more likely home grown fundies than the Muslim kind.

[no name no slogan]

65. "Missionary Aviation"??? WTF????

So that's where all those "Flying fer Jeebus" bumperstickers have been coming from. :freak:

[Bridget Burke]

7. Depends on the career.

Tim & Beverly LaHaye are Bob Jones alumni. He's famous for his "Left Behind" books & her website (Concerned Women for America) is a good source for early versions of fake news stories: "Christmas Under Attack", etc. Let's hope that none of your kids are interested in that sort of job.

An initial look at Soka University indicates it's not quite the same breed of cat. It's already got some accreditation & is working on more. Are your kids planning careers that need advanced degrees from prestigious schools? Or do they want good Liberal Arts degrees with emphasis on languages & cultures?

www.soka.edu/

[UdoKier]

11. With Soka, I'm opposed for one reason.

The fact that the student body is at least 95% SGI members. To me, university is supposed to be all about breaking out of your safe little home life and being thrown together with people from all walks of life as much as it is about getting a degree. I don't think being with a bunch of glazed-eyed buddhists would be nearly as enriching as a normal state university with all the nonsense, sex, drugs and alcohol that entails.

My kids are 4 and 6 so we still have plenty of time. I don't think we will be able to afford to send them to an out-of-town private university, anyway...

[Bridget Burke]

13. OK. But you don't need to make the decision tomorrow!

Who knows what kind of education will be affordable when they're ready. Let's hope....

[TlalocW]

8. I wouldn't hire someone from an overtly religious college

No matter what religion. Not that they're all bad, but I've heard enough bad stuff from Oral Roberts (I'm in Tulsa), Rhema (in a suburb of Tulsa - fellow programmer will not do business with any Rhema graduate because he was stiffed for an $8000 job because he didn't have the "proper spirit"), the nutjobs that come out of the Maharishi College in Iowa (some of them came to my grad school to show us how they were learning to "fly" while in the lotus position - I was not the popular person in the room when I insisted what they were doing was an athletic demonstration not a mystical one, and anyone who believed otherwise - including the professors who were taken in by it - were morons), Bob Jones, Southern Baptist Bible College in Springfield, MO (a friend went there), etc. that religious college is an automatic red flag. It may not be right or open-minded, but that's how it is.

TlalocW

[hughee99]

53. What about

Notre Dame, Boston College, Holy Cross (Jesuits), TCU (Texas Christian University), St. Bonaventure, St. John's, Southern Methodist University, and Brandeis? I know many people who have gone to these overtly religious schools and are not nut jobs. Certainly there are some schools that crank out the wackos like there's no tomorrow, but not all overtly religious schools are bad, and many graduates of these schools are not overtly religious.

[American Renaissance]

9. No!

The only fundementalist school my employer accepts degrees from is Wheaton. All resumes with other fundie schools on them are thrown away.

[Warpy]

10. Those are only the two best known

There's also Robertons's Liberty U plus hundreds of little bible colleges all over the country, turning out legions of bible based economists, lawyers, and other professionals whose employets probably won't check to see what their credentials really mean.

Be afraid, be very afraid. The professions are already being infiltrated by Dominionist hardliners from these little colleges.

If you're hiring somebody for a position and haven't heard of the college where he earned his degree, check it out.

We know who they are and what they want. It's up to us to be vigilant and see they never get it.

[JHB]

12. Robertson's pet school is "Regent University"...

"Liberty U" is (I think) a Falwell creature.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

15. You've got it

I used to walk past Regents' Northern Virginia campus on the way to and from work every day, and subtly flipped them off each and every time I walked past.

[alfredo]

64. I remember that Liberty didn't even have a library. I wonder if

they have one yet.

[bobbieinok]

54. Robertson's U = Regents U; Falwell's = Liberty U

[TyeDye75]

14. Is that Bobby Jones ie. Robert Tyre Jones Junior

ie the famous 1920/30s golfer.

[JHB]

16. I'd hire someone from Spike Jones University...

...anything to help office morale.

[noonwitch]

17. There are academically legitimate christian schools, like

Calvin College, Hope College, Heidelberg College, etc. Plus, catholic schools like Marquette, U of D, etc. These are all accredited, reputable schools with strong academic programs.

I don't consider Bob Jones U (BJU!), Liberty or Regents to be legitimate schools. Wheaton (near Chicago) is dubious to me.

I knew some girls who transferred to my college from Liberty. They liked it there, but felt that it was too insulating from the real world. They were fundies, but I respected that they didn't want to hide from the world, but live in it and meet diverse peoples.

[liberalpragmatist]

66. Is Azusa Pacific University in Calif. Fully Accredited?

I only know about it because it's supposed to be the largest and most diverse evangelical school in the country.

[rndmprsn]

19. it might be a plus in the south? n/t

[roguevalley]

22. always check accredidations and their legal standing. it would

be awful to toil and spend to a degree that had no value in the work world. and by the time your honey buns are ready to work, I bet jobs will be scarce and so legitimacy will be paramount.

[tsuki]

25. The diploma mills, like Pensacola Xian & Kool Aid International, are

money mills for their "bishops." Credentials from there are worthless.

[tsuki]

24. Not here. Employers want people who can read, write, and think. eom

[auburngrad82]

40. I live in the south and Bob Jones U is a joke here as well.

Racist policies that prohibit their students from dating people that are not the same skin color.

[Ms_Mary]

23. Depends, when you say "those schools" do you mean religious in general

or overtly super-conservative religious like those two you mentioned? If you are talking about colleges like Bob Jones, my answer is a definative YES, it is a hindrance in the real world. But considering they have no accredidation and are likely to get only the people interested in being missionaries and such, it probably isn't a hindrance to what they want to do (all social and practical issues aside).

I know a woman who went to Bob Jones for a year and I couldn't believe what she said about it. No pants. Strict curfew. All television and mail is very strictly censored. Even lotion ads get cut out of magazines, those that are allowed. I'm not entirely sure she even lasted a whole semester...

Now, if you take me personally, my bachelors is from a private presbyterian university. I got a $10,000 scholarship to finish my junior/senior years there and I needed the financial help. The college's affiliation had nothing to do with what I learned in classes. Is it a hindrance to me? No, not even remotely. It had no bearing on what I learned and it's not known as a fanatical college. I'm not even presbytarian.

Oh and my college was most definitely fully accredited.

[tsuki]

27. Fully accredited. That is what makes the difference. Most professional

fields regulated by the state will not accept a degree from an unaccredited school.

For instance, you can apply for a psychology license here with proper credentials, including coursework and degrees at an accredited APA university.

From a non-accredited school, you can fall off the radar of proper licensing and become a "Xian counselor" (separation issue.) Same with teachers.

I have often wondered how this insular system will sustain itself. Then I looked at a Xian channel. I have never seen so many white, fat people in all my life.

[Ms_Mary]

28. I think that people who go to THOSE unaccredited colleges

aren't really looking for work the everyday world. They definitely have different goals. They want to be missionaries, preachers, or teachers at Christian private schools. If your college isn't accredited, your degree isn't worth shit unless you are using it at a likeminded place like those I mentioned.

[tsuki]

30. One problem, as I see it, is lying by misdirection. Many of the

fundamentalist schools cloud the issue of true accredition by having an accrediting organization of their own. I sometimes wonder if fundie parents know the difference.

Looking at Loyola, SMU and other religions that maintain colleges or universities that are accredited, fundies may think there schools are like accredited.

When an aquaintance of mine found out that PCC was not accredited, the school went from "the best" to "those crooks."

Question: Should university and/or college be a reserved designation for fully accredited schools?

[Ms_Mary]

33. That's a good point. Not very Christian of them either.

[tsuki]

45. What do you think about reserving college and university for fully

accredited institutions?

[Ms_Mary]

29. --duplicate deleted---

[Sterling]

58. Was it NYU?

I would say it's accredited if it is. lol.

[VaYallaDawg]

26. I don't think it's just the "potential for hire" that's an issue.

The real question is whether your kid(s) will benefit from the true purpose of a university education, which I always believed to be the nurturing of curiosity, independent thinking and a sense of responsibility towards the rest of the world. Although I never attended one of those schools, somehow I get the impression that those qualities might be stifled in most of those "fundamental religious" colleges.

[tsuki]

31. You be the judge.

http://www.pcci.edu/GeneralInfo/Purpose.html

BTW, this is the polling place where Channel 3 (WEAR TV) was called because suspected Kerry voters were being harassed on Nov. 2.

[Ms_Mary]

34. Alrighty then...

I am a Christian and I see some of this stuff and wonder what's in the Koolaid. I'm really disillusioned with some of what passes for religion these days. To answer your earlier question, NO, these places should not be able to pass themselves off as colleges or give the impression they are accredited.

I just don't know about people. My beliefs do not require checking my brain at the door. :scared:

[VaYallaDawg]

37. Wow, tsuki!!

That Pensacola Christian College website is some scary stuff! Wonder how much they charge those poor suckers for "tuition." You can pretty well guess that the notion of Christian charity stops at the accounting office.

Somehow I guess in this neck of the woods we feel really lucky because so many of the college choices (both public and private) around here are so totally different from that - e.g., William and Mary, University of Virginia, Georgetown, Old Dominion, etc. - places that have world-class standards and reputations. Of course, we have Liberty Univ. in Lynchburg (Falwell's masterpiece) only about 100 miles away, I'm embarrassed to say.

[tsuki]

46. What is Robsomemore's college in VA Beach? Met a masters in

psychology from there (Xian Counselor in the prison system.) Talked to him for a while, and have only one thing to say about his viewpoint...

:puke:

If you liked that site, this is Kool Aid International (out of CA.)

http://www.christianinternational.com/

The first thing the "Bishop" after parking his big, black town car in front of his gulf front condo was send his grandson to HRS to have his hair lip repaired. Seems the good "Bishop" was destitute, due to the fact that the "church" owned everything.

[VaYallaDawg]

61. Robber & son's "college" is Regent University.

What a joke. They even have a "law school" now, as if foisting off their so-called undergrads on the rest of the world wasn't enough of a sin (and I do mean sin).

I looked at the site you sent me - just a west coast version of the same thing, maybe not quite as slick as Robertson is. Loved the pics of the "Bishop and Mom" - Yikes!!! You gave me a good belly laugh to start my day today!

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. I agree.

My college experience was a time in which I learned more about myself and communal responsibilities than I did in academic pursuits. I would be concerned about the individual's critical thinking ability.

[AlCzervik]

35. Falwell University=FU

[Batgirl]

41. my poor nephews were shipped off to Hyles-Anderson

"The World's Greatest Bible College" located in Indiana.
They both quit during their first year, since neither of them want to be preachers, missionaries, or teachers in unaccredited Christian schools, which is the only kind of training that occurs at this "college".

God himself told one of the founders of H-A to form "an old-fashioned, sin-hating, Devil-fighting, Christ-honoring Bible college where the students would dress modestly and act courteously; a college where all the students went soul winning and were trained by soul winners; a college where the chapel pulpit was ablaze with red-hot preaching; a college where authority was respected and sin was abhorred; a college where young men would be trained to preach with zeal and knowledge; A COLLEGE WHERE YOUNG LADIES WERE TAUGHT TO BE SUBMISSIVE WIVES and dedicated servants of God." (emphasis mine)

Academics:
"Preacher boys are taught how to start churches; how to build buildings; how to borrow money from lending institutions; how to raise money and adopt a budget; and how to organize, operate, and perpetuate a New Testament church."

Student Life:
"Skirts above the knees are not allowed.Young ladies may not wear shorts or slacks. Young ladies are not allowed to go off campus unchaperoned. Young men and young ladies may not date alone in cars. Absolutely no hand holding or other intimacies are allowed between the sexes. There are date nights with bus transportation and adequate chaperones provided by the college."

"Absolutely no drinking, smoking, or dancing is allowed. No student is allowed to attend Hollywood movies, play cards, or participate in other questionable amusements. WE DO NOT FELLOWSHIP WITH LIBERALS, but instead take a strict separatist stand from the world and apostasy."

"We are fundamentalists and use the term proudly. We believe in a literal Hell which has fire and brimstone and a literal Heaven with streets of gold. We stand for the King James Bible as the only Bible and the local New Testament church as the only true church. We believe in redemption through the blood of Christ, salvation by grace through faith alone and the premillennial second coming of Jesus Christ."

These are the very same people who are increasingly confident that they, through the Bush-boy, are now grasping the reins of power. (While screaming about how persecuted and put-upon they are.)

But, what about that other big Republican taproot, the corporate interests who are counting on us to consume the very products and services that the fundies abhor as evil. What will they do when all forms of entertainment they produce have to pass the Jesus test? Will the stores be full of long skirts and other modest apparel from the Lawrence Welk Singers collection? Are marketers out there even now trying to figure out how to get those fundies to tithe less to their churches and more to their local malls?

[rucky]

42. The Harvard of Dumbfuckistan. n/t

[depakid]

43. Depends what you want to do

If you want a job with a fundie company or in a government agency where the person in charge of hiring is looking for fundies, I guess it's an asset.

Personally, I would never consider hiring someone from any of the fundie universities, because of what it says about their (lack of?) critical thinking skills.

[bobbieinok]

47. studehnts with excellent grades from ORU have gone to grad school

at the U of Chicago, Princeton, and Yale

Baylor Med School

grad school at Moscow University in Russia

jobs at the state department

one communication major was on a major soap opera

school of education graduates have won many teacher of the year awards both in cities and states

These are ones I know of personally. You can also get a very, biased, one-sided education at ORU that only prepares you for church work.

[bobbieinok]

48. Clifton Taulbert is an ORU grad

http://www.shs.starkville.k12.ms.us/mswm/MSWritersAndMusicians/writers/Taulbert.html

....

He was the winner of the NAACP's 27th Image Award for Literary Work: NonFiction for his book When We Were Colored. According to Beth Pinsher of the Dallas Morning News, the director of the film made from this book had difficulty getting the movie released because Once Upon a Time ... When We Were Colored is not a political film. It's a nostalgic coming-of-age tale about a boy learning to deal with the segregation imposed on his small Mississippi town in the years following World War II. His book The Last Train North was the winner of the Mississippi Library Association Award and is the sequel to the best-selling When We Were Colored. It traces the author's journey during the sixties from Mississippi to racially integrated Saint Louis. In his newest book, which is for children, the memorable characters from Eight Habits of the Heart, When We Were Colored, and his other popular works appear in his first picture book called Little Cliff and the Porch People. In the book, Little Cliff's great-grandmother needs a pound of butter to make her candied sweet potatoes, and she sends Cliff to get it for her.

more....

[bobbieinok]

49. but then so are Kenneth Copeland, David Barton, Miles Monroe, etc

(I think I'm right on these)

[DemoTex]

51. My sister-in-law graduated from Bo-Jo (Bob Jones) in Greenville, SC.

Her husband, my wife's youngest brother, is a fundy PCA minister. They home-schooled for a while. Last year they sent the 13 year-old daughter to Bob Jones Academy (a Christian school .. I wish I could spell that with the contempt that Dr. DemoTex and I spit it out).

However, we like them. They don't proselytize, and they don't condemn us (to our faces). They love the mountains and love to hike, so we like having them up here. Dr. D has her drinky-poo in front of the Rev. with no problem. He is actually a great guy .. away from the church. However, when he is behind the pulpit (and we have been to that show), he is something else!

Some DUers probably don't know it, but we have a condo in downtown Greenville, SC. Dr. D has an office in Greenville, as well as her offices in Chicago and Dallas. I spend about four nights a month in Greenville, SC. The rest of the time I spend up here in the mountain house in NC. That for clarification.

[nascarblue]

52. I wouldn't let my kid anywhere near there these days...NT

[NAO]

59. Depends on WHICH University (accredited? fundy/zealot?)

Some religious universities are fully accredited. Even if fully accredited, if they are extremist fundys, I think it's a hindrance.

But an accredited university with a religious affiliation that is not from a fundy/zealot is most likely fine.

[CatholicEdHead]

60. Catholic Fundie schools

are just the same in many ways. There are not that many of them out their, most Catholic Colleges are pretty secular in their teachings, but there are a few out there.

A couple off the top of my head are Franciscisan University (FU) in Stubenville, OH and Ave Maria College in Michigan by Detroit.

The entire list of nutty Catholic schools is here:
http://www.ncregister.com/features/mandatum.htm

Most are funded by rich ultra-conservative businessmen and the schools get into trouble with the Vatican for being too conserative, which makes them quasi-schism schools and not really fit to wear the "Catholic" label.

[Oddly Stevenson]

63. Funny you should mention this,

but when I went to vote, there was a woman outside the polling place handing out cards for her son, who was running for a seat on the board of education. One of the first things I read on the card was "Graduate of Bob Jones University." I started to clue in my sister, who had come with me to vote, and before I could even open my mouth to warn her she said "Saw it." Sorry, no vote for you.

I expect in certain circles, it might not harm your job prospects. But if you want access to the real, entire world, it's probably a not the best choice of universities.