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[Walt Starr]

1. I hope you're right

I fear you're wrong.

[tjdee]

2. So ASK them, dammit!

Can I count on the NYT reporters to be bugs up the asses of this administration?

Somehow, I don't think so.
Doesn't anyone want a Pulitzer?

[Sliverofhope]

3. And what makes it all the more refreshing is

that spinmaster extraordinaire Ari Fleisher, who can worm out of anything, will have his last day Monday. Who will his replacement be? This could be interesting.

[Mz Pip]

4. I don't know how many times

over the past two years I've read posts that have claimed that this is what wil bring Dubya down. I have always been skepitcal because he employs the best spin machine in the business. I really had hopes for this one. I really did, but it looks like Tenent will take the fall, Smirk will stonewall and blame anyone but him. Americans will still think Iraq was a good war. And this will be just a minor glitch in BushCo's assault on all things honorable and good.

And the beat goes on...

MzPip
:dem:

[Demobrat]

5. That special something is the SOTU, IMO.

It's not Bush lied. It's Bush lied in the State of the Union address. A simple concept anybody can understand, even if they're not even sure what he lied about. He got up there and lied to every one of us personally, with the whole world watching. Now that is a frigging insult to each and every American who watched that speech. And nobody likes to be lied to.

[David Zephyr]

12. The Supreme Court Justices Sat There Watching Bush's Speech.

This is really going to burn Bush's little nasty ass.

[unfrigginreal]

6. Great Sentence from the article

Apparently without the knowledge of Mr. Cheney or Mr. Tenet, the agency sent a former ambassador, Joseph C. Wilson IV, to investigate.(My empasis)

HAHAHAHA! This criminal cabal is going down!!!!!!!

[caledesi]

18. Yes, Wilson is the key. eom

[hedda_foil]

7. It gets more and more damning

Administration officials involved in drafting another speech Mr. Bush gave about Iraq, in Cincinnati on Oct. 7, said that at the C.I.A.'s behest, they had removed any mention of the central piece of intelligence about African uranium — a report about an effort by Iraq to obtain "yellowcake," which contains uranium ore, in Niger. No one has fully explained how, given that early October warning to the White House, a version of the same charge resurfaced in the early drafts of the State of the Union address just three months later, and stayed there, draft after draft.

<snip>

In the case of the uranium, Mr. Bush actually cited British intelligence because it had published the allegation about Africa in an unclassified report in September. "It cited a public document, which probably helped," Ms. Rice explained yesterday. "It was also Britain, which probably helped."

<snip>

There is still a dispute over what exactly was said in their conversations. Mr. Foley was said to recall that before the speech, Mr. Joseph called him to ask about putting into the speech a reference to reports that Iraq was trying to buy hundreds of tons of yellowcake from Niger. Mr. Foley replied that the C.I.A. was not sure that the information was right.

Mr. Joseph then came back to Mr. Foley and pointed out that the British had already included the information in a report. Mr. Foley said yes, but noted that the C.I.A. had told the British that they were not sure that the information was correct. Mr. Joseph then asked whether it was accurate that the British reported the information. Mr. Foley said yes.

[RichM]

8. The Sunday talk shows will probably be used by the Bushistas to put

out the fire. Maybe they'll succeed; maybe they won't. The outcome depends on how determined & aggressive congressional Democrats are, & on how dogged & determined the media is.

I don't expect much from either of these groups. Clearly, the media is behaving more responsibly on this, so far, than they have on all prior outrages - outrages which were every bit as blatant & obvious. (For example, the missing WMD. How is it even possible that this, by itself, has not become a scandal? Then Enron, Halliburton, the current reconstruction contracts, the 9-11 investigation - all POOF! Into thin air.)

The only reason we've gotten futher with this one is because of Wilson & McGovern & the other whistle-blowers.

However, the Bushistas are world-class liars. If the media & Democrats were determined, they have an opening here - but it would be a hard fight, because the Bushies would be fighting for their lives. Anything less than a full-court press by Democrats and media, and the Bushies will survive this, too. Though I'd love to be wrong, that's what I'd bet is going to happen.

[LEW]

10. I don't think he will survive this

in the long run. Was talking to my husband tonight about all this, and his statement was that people have stopped saying they voted for B*sh. He works in a big repub company, this is the water cooler talk ya all.

[madmax]

9. Ms. Rice knows nothing

"Ms. Rice said the administration did not learn until March that the documents that were the primary basis for the assertion about Niger had been forged. She also said she did not learn about the mission to Niger last year by a former American ambassador — who found no evidence to back up the charge — until a month ago, when she was asked about it during a television interview."

Prior to 9/11 Ms. Rice never evah thought terrorists would use planes as bombs and fly them into buildings - DOH, DUH, HUH??? What the hell does this mis-administration know of value??? How to do a millionaire fundraiser. :wtf: is up with these people?

I'm not buying any of this B.S. They may have been told of the forgery but they used it anyway to get their war. They may not have known everything about 9/11 but they knew SOMETHING and they let it happen because they never expected it to be WTC, Pentagon, etc. They wanted and needed a lift in the polls so if a little highjacking happened *bush could be trotted out to 'git tough' and bolster his ratings, which were falling like a rock on 9/10.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[caledesi]

19. Hey Condi? Remember the mushroom cloud?

Did that come from Tenet? I don't think so. She will resign...mark my words.

[PurityOfEssence]

11. They've already played their biggest Trump; what do they do now?

You cover the first few embarrassments with someone lower on the food chain, then wait for the next wave before you pull out the big guns.

By throwing George Jetsam on the raging sea, they've not quelled the tempest, merely tempted the fates.

Wonder what Paul O'Neil is thinking right now...

[DrBB]

14. Trump the Chump!

"George Jetsam"--I love it!

I totally agree. This ISN'T going to nix the story. If you look at his statement, well.... I already say it in a post below. It's WORSE. If any journalists are paying attention--and I think some of them are--to what he actually said, he's made it WORSE. Headline writers notwithstanding. I don't know what Tenet thinks he's up to, but he did NOT just fall on his sword. I won't plug my Tenet Analysis thread again (see below), but get a grip, folks!

[DrBB]

13. NYTimes has been VERY slow to catch on

...and they are still just repeating other people's stuff rather than assigning their own investigator.

But if they are finally getting it into the news pages (as opposed to the Op-Eds), that's a very good sign.

The Tenet thing is shit. I don't know why there's so much fuss about it on DU, people pissing and moaning about how it's all over. It is NOT all over, not by a long chalk. And his statement--if you actually read it--is NOTHING. It's the Gjelten story with the bad bits left out but not contradicted. I invite you to my thread analyzing the thing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=27508&mesg_id=27508&page=2
I don't know what Tenet thinks he's doing, but putting a stop to the story--and thereby earning a seat on the Carlyle board and an inside spot at the BFEE table--ain't it. I think people around here watch too much cable news.

[RichM]

16. The Tenet thing is sh*t, but the issue won't be resolved on its merits.

None of the congressional or media whores will give it nearly as good an analytical look as you've already given it. It doesn't matter if they're lying -- Reagan, Poppy, & Ollie North were lying, too, and they got away scot-free, during a time of far less corruption than we face today.

The issue will be decided by a weighing of which influential groups want Bush brought down, & which don't. The groups will include the media, congressional Democrats, & the CIA. I doubt that any of these groups is actually going to fight in the determined fashion that would be necessary to bring Bush down. In fact, I doubt that any of them will fight very hard at all.

Isn't it "impressive," in an end-of-the-world miserable sort of way, that they already got the director of the CIA to put his head on the chopping block for them? :shrug:

[GumboYaYa]

17. It's not close to over...it's just beginning!

All Tenet said in his statement was that he did not try hard enough to keep the statement out of the SOTU. The question is who was arguing to keep it in the speech.

I saw Hagel (sp?) the Repuke Senator from Indiana on Capitol Hill Report tonight and he was pressing hard for an investigation. CHR is one of the most conservative news shows and they were hammering this thing. This is just the start. Rats will start to flee the ship.

The CIA will not let its credibility and power be destroyed by Chimpy. Tenet can squawk all he wants, but there will be memos, e-mails, and other correspondence that shows Bush knew his claim was BSand they will be leaked.

The Repukes will turn on each other when it means saving themselves. They feign solidarity and power, but all they really care about is preserving their own asses. As soon as GWB is trashed by the CIA his own will turn on him. Some of his fiercest defenders will becomes his greatest critics.

This is the start, but I bet it unfolds quickly over the next few weeks. The polls will also start to show the Chimps decline. He has been propped up by 9/11 and war becasue of his undeserved image as a bold leader. Bold leaders don't tell bald-faced lies. The American people are dense, but not impenetrable.

His goose is cooked.

[caledesi]

21. Hello Google! They are cooked. eom

[Mari333]

15. This is Just the Beginning

[LibertyorDeath]

20. Hey Mari333 you're killin me here I gotta clean the coffee I blew thru my

nose of the monitor now. Thanx for the great laugh !

Talk about cruelty to animals but it's most probably more than Pickles has seen lately.

[opihimoimoi]

23. Well now, they used the Sword card, the Condi card, the Slavery card, the

AIDs card, the Africa card, ...... they got 44 more cards.

When will it be the TRUTH CARD?

My guess: they going for the Nixon trip: the STONEWALL CARD.

This will be their big gamble:

WE all know what happenes to these kinds of FOOLs. Mr Murphy will get um. Bring on the TRUTH and these guys will melt. All those Pubs who defended this toad will go to their offices and die when the "protesting, treasonous traitors give them hell" make them eat CROW. To avoid the crow, they too must stonewall. But this time, truth might just prevail.

[Oilwellian]

25. Ah, but what happened during the Nixon trip?

Richard Helms, however, was not about to provide the cover for Watergate that the president expected. He had been told that Nixon planned to replace him immediately after the election, and he feared, as he told me subsequently, that Nixon also planned "to destroy agency." Nixon, it will be recalled, had already excluded Helms from some meetings of the National Security Council. The director of CIA was also well aware that in the reorganization of the Investigative agencies in the narcotics program the White House strategists had twice attempted to detach CIA agents and use them for their own domestic purposes. Krogh had, fact, demanded and received surreptitious funds from the CIA to pursue his war against heroin.

Although Helms denied that he had specific knowledge of Hunt's activities on the special-investigation unit, he could not have been entirely unaware of the extraordinary nature of the relationship between Hunt and the other Plumbers and the White House. In any case, Helms saw that these White House maneuvers-and the demands being put upon his agency-could jeopardize the integrity of the CIA (and diminish its autonomy within the government). When Haldeman and Ehrlichman approached Helms with the president's suggestion that he inform the FBI that a deeper investigation of the Watergate burglary could uncover CIA activities, he pointedly refused, saying that the burglars arrested in Watergate were not involved with the CIA. The White House was thus deprived of its most expedient way of covering up the burglars.

Not only did the CIA refuse to intervene for the president to limit the FBI investigation, but Robert Foster Bennett, president of Robert R. Mullen and Company, which acted as a coordinator for Hunt in a number of his prior activities, began planting stories in the Washington Post which suggested that the Watergate burglary was directly connected to other White House activities. Indeed, Bennett sent a memorandum to his CIA case officer, Martin J. Lukasky-who controlled the covert activities of Mullen and Company-which described how he had established a relationship with Bob Woodward, of the Post, and was seeking to direct the attention of the Post to Charles Colson's activities and away from those of the CIA. In return for these stories, Bennett said that Woodward was protecting the covert activities of Mullen and Company and the CIA, according to a memorandum written to the CIA on July 10, 1972. As Colson saw material appearing in the Post which implied that he was behind Watergate, he began planting detective stories on his own behalf. The "battle of the leaks," as Colson called it, thus began to sink the Nixon administration.


Do you suppose Tenet has read about Helms? :D
http://edwardjayepstein.com/agency/chap31.htm

[opihimoimoi]

26. I hope the Truth emerges on time to foil the boil in 04

Bush is on thin ice now, anything can happen.

The Bushites are all fearing the worst: having to eat crow.

The Media smells blood but still fears the power of the Shrub.
So they will go about this rather timidly asn when they think its safe, will pursue robustly

The Troops in the Middle East are going nuts due to lack of ice water and good food. Sitting ducks they are, and they are skittish. I don blame them one bit.

[kentuck]

22. Could it be there are some newspaper editors out there....

that still think it is wrong to lie to the American people?

[ferg]

24. Nope.

Well, maybe there's some local editor that still has some professionalism left.

But most are perfectly happy with "the British have learned..." kind of lie. That kind of deception where you just quote a liar without any rebuttal is SOP for American journalism.

[scottxyz]

27. One reason why it's not gonna go away

150,000 troops in Iraq, no longer a "cakewalk", not coming home any time soon, cost now estimated at $4 billion a month up from $2 billion

As the US economy continues to go into the toilet, and the states continue to go broke, and people continue to die in Iraq, and the word qWagmire comes into general use, and the thing just drags on and on... People are not gonna stop asking "Hey who the hell got us into this mess anyways?"

Ole chickenhawk AWOL cokehead cheerleader TopGun-wannabe Georgie-Porgie.

He's just gonna be twisting in the wind for the rest of his term, unless he gets impeached.

Or: get some terrorists to "bring 'em on" again and cause another Reichstag to scare everyone again.

[MrPrax]

28. Other Reason...Still No WMDs in Iraq

It ain't going to die and sidebars about the size of aluminium tubes, Niger yellowcakes, etc will only emphasize pathetic things like 'documents' found under Rose Bushes in Baghdad.

The Night of the Long Knives is still to come

:bounce:

[cap]

29. they are counting on no leaks from CIA employees

who would be very angry if Bush touched their agency and tried to dismantle it and give power to Rumsfeld's little intelligence cabal in the Pentagon.

Tenet can try to take the fall for Bush -- but I can't imagine career CIA employees backing him.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

30. Also, many of the fearful American public might say to themselves,

"Oh presidents lie all the time, so what," but every time the administration, and especially Bush, gets caught in a lie and has to fall back on incompetence for an excuse, it looks worse and worse.

Even Republicans must be asking themselves, are Bush and his people just public relations manipulators and image-makers or do they know what they are doing?

The Republicans want so badly to think of Bush as the 9-11 hero and great Iraq warrior, but it's like there is a war bewteen the hype and the facts. Bush should have acted on the 9-11 intelligence instead of going on vacation and Bush should have had a plan for winning the peace in Iraq and he should not have given all those dubious and changing reasons for war. The buck has to stop with someone and deep down, a lot of Americans must know that, no matter how much the media spins it.

It's like they want to stay in denial, but the facts are drawing aside the great Oz's curtain.