Question: Why do I see Christianity as a religion of hate today?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

It's not my understanding of the tenets taught by Christ, but the example set by his professed followers.

Pro War, Pro Gun, Pro control of others who do not agree with their belief system, a penchant toward old testament punishments of even the most minor infractions of the law...


How could such a wonderful philosophy be turned into such an instrument of destruction?

Today's America which seems to take pride in being proud (One of the seven deadlies) seems to now be going down the road of killing all who oppose us. We are seeing a crusade to end all crusades, to end all life. The downtrodden are supporting the people who live high on the hog due to their work, the disposed support their disposers...

What the fuck has happened to this country? What the fuck has happened to the "Prince of Peace?"

When did Christians decide that it was time to take over the world in a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" way?

What happened?

Why?

[HEyHEY]

1. I see all religions as religions of hate

I'm gettin gfucking sick and tired of them.

[BattyDem]

2. It's disturbing, isn't it?

I just posted a message in another thread and I asked, "When did we become a bunch of cold-hearted, blood-thirsty barbarians?!"

It seems like so many "normal" people have suddenly decided that anyone who isn't a white, straight, Christian American is completely worthless. Did everyone go nuts at once??

[chookie]

16. "Did everyone go nuts at once??"

My dear -- excellent question!

There is certainly a widespread social pathology which must be analyzed. Maybe a lot of people did go nuts at once (a kind of Post Traumatic Stress thing.

Historically speaking, did everyone in Germany go Nazi over night? Of course not -- it was very gradual. I bet most of the solder were not fighting for Nazism, but for Germany -- the usual BS....

Intellect and understanding, sadly, have little part in making new history. Indeed, we are presently being driven by very irrational forces, to hell knows where. Bush's ambitions will only be curbed by the size of the army he thinks he can raise --and sorry, folks, all bets are off....

[RPM]

37. not all at once.

The american worker has been getting fucked for a long time - but the last 30 years have been particularly bad. Job security is a thing of the past: first they gutted the manufacturing sector and sent the jobs to Japan, Korea, etc...; then the tech jobs get outsourced to India. Mergers, down-sizing, cuts in benefits... People have been taking it in the ass.

And it upsets them.

Especially because they are a "good, hard-working, God-fearing Amurican" who has been doing the right thing and not getting ahead. So people get pissed. And the first people they turn on are those who don't look / act / worship like them. But they are angry, threatened, and dangerous. And nuts.

Everyone did go nuts - over the last 30 years, not all at once.

Perhaps once ** has trashed the economy completely, the Democrats can make a policy of economic hope and opportunity a cornerstone of a platform in '08.

[Just Me]

3. Christ, that vision, is being "manipulated" and "used" for human purposes.

It's certainly not the first time.

Perhaps, this "Age of Awareness" will end the abuse.

[anitar1]

4. Christiananity

This goes so far back in history. Religion has always been used to control people.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. The Inquisition, Salem, Crusades....

The list can go on and on. More people have been killed in the name of Christ or Mohammed than in any other name.

What a boon for population control.

[BrklynLiberal]

13. That is exactly what George Carlin says.... n/t

[noahmijo]

5. I refuse to call myself a Christian nowadays

Raised Catholic, I read the bible, and I just say that I try to follow the teachings of Christ. will attend church now and then because the one I go to is run by really cool and angel like people, otherwise I'd never go.

But I refuse to call myself a Christian and I don't think I ever will again. I think Mark Twain said it best "If Jesus were alive today he wouldn't be a Christian"

[bliss_eternal]

22. Me too, noahmijo

I was raised with Christianity and Catholicism (two sides of family). With all the hatred that has been spewed by the various denominations of Christian churches, I had to walk away from calling myself that.

My dh went to Catholic school growing up and he also refuses. He won't even go to church anymore.

[gumby]

6. Kinda makes one understand Nazi Germany,

doesn't it? Very unfortunate. History repeating itself by those who adamantly (as a proof of their faith) refuse to learn from the past.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

8. Oh, I think people have learned from the past.... the people that are

running the country today.

Unfortunately, the populace is too stupid to recognize it.

[chookie]

20. Indeed

Ha ha ha -- unfortunately one of the lesssons "learned" were not "Don't start crazy, unwinnable wars." I think that much of the opposition stems from here....

Ha ha -- I guess I know a lot of people who have seen war, who think of it as the ultimate last resort for something critically important.

So much scholarship about stupid unwinnable wars -- which is officically ignored.

Therein lies the crux of the matter-- people have NOT learned from the part. Well, we all know the consequences....

[bhikkhu]

9. When did Christians decide... "kill 'em all..."?

Sometime shortly after 312 a.d., when Constantine, with the cross as a banner, crushed his imperial rival. He attributed his military success to his new alliance with Jesus, and proceeded to mercilessly advance his empire, internally and externally, by destroying unbelieving populations and outlawing rival faiths. Augustine soon synthesized a Christian philosophy of war, integrating the new imperial martial Christianity with the older small scale church-and-community forms. The basic premisses have changed little since, as far as war and the Christian faith go.

This is as simple as it might be put in a few sentences.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. You're right, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that someone will come up

with an earlier example...

I think it's almost a genetic thing with the majority of religions to kill the non believers.

Maybe that was one of the silly reasons for the seperation of church and stae thingie they wrote about so many years ago.

[Selteri]

29. Want Earlier, try within 100 years there was one of the 'leaders'

of early Christianity who butchered an island to convert them.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. Weren't Jesus' gentle teachings "corrupted"by Paul much earlier than that?

[bhikkhu]

17. Corrupted in a different way...

Jesus probably had no conception of founding a religion separate from Judaism, although he and many of his contemporaries had issues with the authority of the high priests in Jerusalem. "Keeping the Law" is the foundation of the Jewish religion, and it was Paul, not Jesus, who made the revolutionary break on that point. From one perspective, Paul repackaged Christianity into a very marketable product.

I have never been fond of Paul, as slippery a word-spinner as any repug, but as far as the gentleness of the teaching, he really comes off mildly. In his time it was most pertinent to appear harmless and small to the powers-that-be. There may be other takes on the issue, but it was Constantine who really put his boot into the early faith.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

21. Another tact is the positioning of the books of the NT in comparison to

many of the Greek Mythology stories... Most especially the Hercules half man half God...

IMHO, much of the bible we read today comes from the effort of making things more palatable to other indigeneous religions of the day by incorporation.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Like many wonderful ideas, Jesus' philosophy of love was hijacked by

self-serving, power-hungry, despots who used "religion" for their own private betterment. It has continued down thru the ages, and in fact, Bush and Co are still doing the exact same thing at this every moment.

[TahitiNut]

14. I think of them as "Old Testament Christians"

Yes, it is a contradiction in terms. So are they. They don't appear to have received or comprehended the "good news" ... the "good news" that Martin Luther King Sr. and Jr. taught (in so many, many ways). "Old Testament Christians" are theological recidivists. Throwbacks. They've embraced the vessel of myth and thrown away the cargo of Truth ... a Truth taught in a myriad of ways throughout history all over the world.

[DieboldMustDie]

15. "Religion is to God what the clock is to time."

-- James Carroll

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1214-20.htm

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

19. Ouch! How wonderfully Zen!

[Lexingtonian]

18. It's a country of Settler Christianity

Y'know, the kind that made killing Indians into A Good Thing for God's Elect.
Check out whether things have changed any in 150 years:

http://www.twainquotes.com/Christianity.html

There has been only one Christian. They caught him and crucified him--early.
- Notebook, 1898

The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetics in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

This is a Christian country. Why, so is hell. Inasmuch as "Strait is the way and narrow is the gate, and few-few-are they that enter in thereat" has had the natural effect of making hell the only really prominent Christian community in any of the worlds; but we don't brag of this and certainly it is not proper to brag and boast that America is a Christian country when we all know that certainly five-sixths of our population could not enter in at the narrow gate.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

I found out that I was a Christian for revenue only and I could not bear the thought of that, it was so ignoble.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian.
- Mark Twain's Notebook

Christianity will doubtless still survive in the earth ten centuries hence--stuffed and in a museum.
- Notebook, 1898

You can never find a Christian who has acquired this valuable knowledge, this saving knowledge, by any process but the everlasting and all-sufficient "people say." In all my seventy-two years and a half I have never come across such another ass as this human race is.
- Mark Twain's Autobiography

The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

24. Thank you. You are quoting my hero in these matters.

I'm sure you have read the "A Pen Warmed Up In Hell" collestin as well as "letters From The Earth?"

If not they are well worth hunting down.

[alittlelark]

23. Because 70 or so % do not believe in Jesus (or his teachings)

They must rely on the old testament for their hatred and war. They IGNORE all the teachings of the New Testament.

According to scripture, Jesus came to 'fix' the problems that were in the faith. His FATHER told him to. He did, and ALL CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS ignore it. The more insecure they are in themselves, the more firmly they BELIEVE (in whatever the guy on TV tells them to).

MIT UN GOT !!!! (pls correct if spelling is off)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

25. Or.... We have an MTV generation of Xtians?

SOundbites but no understanding or want to know or delve?

It's so much easier to have someone tell you what to believe rather than go through the soul searching and work to come up with your own understanding of "the meaning of life?"

[alittlelark]

26. Hey, those preacher guys are on TV - they must be cool!

But I'm not buyin' it - the youth i know are savvy and curious. Curiosity killed the cat, but it may save democracy.

[leftofthedial]

27. it's a cyclical inevitability for religions

they plod along dormantly for a couple of centuries

then their populations explode and most of them go insane and start killing lots and lots and lots of people

kind of like rats in the doomsday scenario

[UdoKier]

28. For the same reason so many see Islam as a religion of hate.

To a surprising degree, they both are. It's a shame that good teachings can be so twisted, and that such a huge percentage of followers can so easily be led to following twisted teachings.

It's amazing the number of times I've seen fundie nuts or even just regular wingnuts like Coulter calling this a "war on Islam". Excuse me, but count me out of a war on ANY entire religion, especially one with a billion followers. But generalizing all followers of a religion as being violent or hateful is unfair.

As for your question : "When did Christians decide that it was time to take over the world in a "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" way?"

I know they decided that during the Crusades, and I'm sure there have been a few other times. There seems to be a common element of conceit among the Abrahamic religions that is not as common in the eastern faiths...

[VOX]

30. Because a message of love, forgiveness and renewal has been twisted...

into a cancerous decree of hate, condemnation and death. The right-wing, fundamentalist church works more efficiently as a mind-controlling, sexual regulation society when threatening others with hellfire and damnation.

What was once meant to be a gift of spiritual comfort and salvation is now weilded as a weapon, opening up terrible wounds of fear, hatred and ignorance, and dividing families and nations, turning them against one another.

Jesus would weep, and with good reason.

[MsConduct]

31. Of course, TRUE Christianity is not a religion of hate....

The pretenders from the 'dark side' have twisted it to make it work for them. Killing for God and/or Jesus is something that has been around forever. And I'm pretty sure the Father and Son have pick a special place in Hell for those who have done this. I consider True
Christianity to be a religion of Love, Peace, Joy and Hope. Those are the things that I choose to believe in.

[ThoughtCriminal]

32. My visit to the In-Law's fundamentalist church

I made myself a bet that while the death of Jesus would be mentioned many times, he would not under any circumstances, be quoted. I should have made the bet with someone who could have paid up. All Paul, all the time.

Maybe this was just off-topic that Sunday, but the actual words of Christ seem to be avoided.

[Bridget Burke]

33. Christianity has been hijacked....

There are plenty of good Christians out there, but they're living their lives, not preaching on the TV. I posted this link in another thread:

www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

The years 1982-1986 marked the period Pat Robertson and radio and televangelists urgently broadcast appeals that rallied Christian followers to accept a new political religion that would turn millions of Christians into an army of political operatives. It was the period when the militant church raised itself from centuries of sleep and once again eyed power.

At the time, most Americans were completely unaware of the militant agenda being preached on a daily basis across the breadth and width of America. Although it was called “Christianity” it can barely be recognized as Christian. It in fact was and is a wolf parading in sheep’s clothing: It was and is a political scheme to take over the government of the United States and then turn that government into an aggressor nation that will forcibly establish the United States as the ruling empire of the twenty-first century. It is subversive, seditious, secretive, and dangerous.

Dominionism is a natural if unintended extension of Social Darwinism and is frequently called “Christian Reconstructionism.” Its doctrines are shocking to ordinary Christian believers and to most Americans. Journalist Frederick Clarkson, who has written extensively on the subject, warned in 1994 that Dominionism “seeks to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that would govern by imposing their interpretation of ‘Biblical Law.’” He described the ulterior motive of Dominionism is to eliminate “…labor unions, civil rights laws, and public schools.”

I'd been reading about these guys for some time, but this article lays it all out. They're very close to success--using their own twisted version of Christianity.

[KayLaw]

34. Hitler and the Nazi's did the same

Peronally, I think the real Christians should stand up show the confused how it's done. This business of draping oneself with the flag and hiding behind the cross should not stand. Just as patriotic non-wingers have taken back the flag, so should non-winger Christians take back the cross.

You know a true Christan - that is a person who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ and stives to be as Christ-like as posssible - by his actions. Contrast Jimmy Carter with George Bush for one example.

[quaker bill]

35. Because you have a prejudicial and uninformed view?

The point of view you describe is by no means a consensus position among Christians. It may not even represent the view of the majority. It does however get alot of press.

Those who favor the death penalty and "three strikes you're out" laws are by no means all practicing Christians or even religious in any way.

I will grant that support of "blue laws", you know, those laws related to sexual morality and the consumption of alcohol, do come, for the larger part, from a religious point of view. Those folks are afflicted with the mistaken notion that creating prohibitions against certain behaviors will change society in a way that affirms and supports their values. It is a ruse and distraction offered to these folks by the monied elites whose interests would be harmed if the true cause of their concern was ever addressed.

In short, they may in some sense be "Christian", but they are actively misguided with malicious intent.

[bloom]

36. "When did Christians decide that it was time to take over the world... "

When didn't they?



Seems like they have been working at taking over the world in a variety of ways for quite awhile now.

[gingergreen]

39. agree

[seabeyond]

38. i saw the frenzy being whipped up with passion last spring

ia gree with what you say. i have watched these fundamentalist get into creating all muslim satan, ergo ok to kill. god tells them to. create all liberals as satan, ergo any dishonest act or smear or ugliness to them is ok, god says it is

thru bainwashing they create those opposed as evil, then they are justified in all their unchristian acts

[RUDUing2]

40. Are you really meaning ALL Christians...or were you simply too lazy to

correctly qualify your title and post...and you really meant Fundamentalist Christians?

If you really meant ALL christians then I don't have much to say to you because you are obviously operating under misinformation and are not interested in being told anything different.

If you meant fundamentalist Christians..then it is because they operate under a system of fear and an intense need for rules and regulations. Anything that questions or makes them question those rules and regulations must be evil and has to be stopped..because their fear of life and of anything different from them is overwhelming and in order to function they have to have complete control over every aspect of their life and the world around them.

It has little or nothing to do w/the Bible or w/Christ or w/christianity...and everything to do w/a particular type of personality or mindset...if christianity didn't exist they would still be this way...if they had lived in the USSR they would have been the ultra-soviet...no matter where or when they lived, no matter what the culture was they would be part of the segment of society that insisted on the *rules* being followed to the letter and that wanted to exclude everyone who wasn't just like *them*...

[indepat]

41. Because Jerry et al have turned Christianity into a religion of hate

by what they spew from their mouths?

[Moderator]

42. Locking

Broad-brush smear againt Christians.