What exactly are 'moral values'?

[ck4829]

What are moral values? Whenever I hear people talking about moral values, it is about indecency, abortion, and 'protecting' marriage.

It is often said that moral values require religion. I don't believe this, and I am also not of the religion that about all of these 'moral values' people are of.

But, if Christianity is the source of the so-called 'moral values' of the Conservatives in this nation then how come helping the poor and promoting pacifism aren't on the list of today's moral values?

[salin]

1. they are for many of us...

indeed for some it is why we are democrats.

[sportndandy]

2. Its a catch-phrase

It describes what conservatives have and liberals do not. It will backfire, because "moral value" will become a litmus test for any political action or inaction. E.G. What is the moral value of condoning homelessness in our country? What is the moral value of the current minimum wage? What moral values is someone demonstrating when they send soldiers to war without proper equipment. This is the way the debates will be framed.

[GeorgeGist]

3. Duh?

If I'm not mistaken -and I wasn't there, so I could be - but I do believe that Moral Values existed long-before Religion attempted to claim ownership of them.

[supernova]

4. "Moral Values" really means

a narrowly-defined set of positions on social issues:

* No "indecency on the airwaves, or in any speech for that matter.
* Pro-life
* Protect hetrosexual marriage
* Abstinence for teens and in general, anyone else who isn't married.
* No gays... ever. period.

Obviously there are all types of moral values, such as: '

* Helping the poor and the dispossesed
* Comforting the sick
* Aiding and abetting peace over warfare
* Investing in education, not prizing ignorance

[sportndandy]

8. any type of "permissive" lifestyle

don't forget about banning recreational drugs, and this includes alchohol again.

[supernova]

12. Alcohol? I haven't heard anyone

talk about banning alcohol again. Seriously? We all know how well that worked the first time. :shrug:

[wurzel]

5. Moral values are the unlegislated code that societies live by.

And these codes are the same for most societies because in order for societies to survive they have to be the same. Often they surround sex because this is the most dangerous force that threatens the existence of the society. The trouble is they often get confused with religious dogma.

[SHRED]

6. Christians derive...

their 'moral values' from a "strict father model".
This is what mainstream conservative Christianity is based on. It requires a "strict father" that punishes you if you are not good.
Morals like anti-war and helping the poor just don't fit.

This "strict father" is the reason why non-thinkers view the Repugs as the "manly" not the "girlie man" party.
They are non-thinking sheep that base their beliefs in misplaced emotions maybe stemming from childhood fatherly abuse.

[supernova]

9. Actually, I'm a xtain

and I have the "nurturing parent" model. I see God as loving and generous, curious and willing to experiement, to grow.

So "strict father" doesn't work with all of us. :-)

[SHRED]

14. I agree

You obviously have an open and understanding mind/heart.

I was speaking of a very large section of Christianity that are redneck by nature,seek blood retribution(eye for an eye), and act out in a very forward almost macho way. Although they appear as tame as sheep, they are wolves inside.
Again, probably stemming from some childhood abuse such as a neglectful father who beat them.

The kind of Christians like Billy Graham who pray with the pResident then give him the green light to start bombing.

[rfranklin]

7. It's a way to demonize anyone who disagrees with you...

Because, as we have seen again and again, the people who claim moral superiority are the ones with the high incidence of sexual perversion, criminal tendencies, and a general lack of conscience.

[supernova]

11. Repression and projecting

Conservatives love to blame and discipline others, for what are actually their own flaws that, due to said repression, they can't deal with.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. This is a slogan we can take and use

the conservatives have used it as a code word for anti-homosexual bias, anti-science, and anti-free speech, etc.

Moral values must include looking after 'the least of these'-feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, etc, etc. And it doesn't have to be connected with any one religion. All those I have studied talk about the virtues of helping others (and many non-religious types have talked about the same thing-Karl Marx comes to mind). But the point is we can take these issues and question the rw conservatives on them, and they can't counter-argue that we're not following 'Christian' values because the ideas are found in the Bible itself. It's about time that we start asking these questions, beit in LTTE, in our churches, or among people we meet.

[mattclearing]

13. Just like family values, it is crap, signifying nothing.

There's nothing moral about taking two words that have no specific meaning and brow-beating people who vote for a particularly Presidential candidate for regognizing that they don't mean anything.

Why would anyone pick "moral values" off of a list and vote for George Bush? The guy is the king of immorality, regardless of whatever specific values he may hold dear.

[zann725]

25. "Family Values" is the real "F" word...so why not quit using it?

n/t

[Viktor Runeberg]

15. Slavery

Moral values are about internalizing the code of slavery, with oneself a slave - unless of course one is a "leader" of the moral values movement, in which case one is a slave master - deferring when asked to a claim that ones authority derives from Gawd.

Ethical values on the other hand are those values which lead to the best thriving of freely lived life. That's why ethical values are associated with liberals (liber means free). Ethical values go back to the philosophers of democratic Athens, as well as to the essentially egalitarian and democratic tribes of Northern Europe in the same era. They are values not appropriate to a slave.

It was because the Native American cultures were largely free and ethical, rather than slave and moral, that they did not enslave well, and slaves had to be brought in from other cultures where slavery was already more normal, due largely to the Arabic influence in Africa - Arabs enslaved more people in and from that region over history than Europeans ever did.

(Athens, of course, had many slaves, but the values of the slave owners nonetheless were ethical rather than moral, at least among themselves.)

[RC]

23. The question that needs to be ask is;

"How Ethical are your moral values?"
Morals can be all over the lot. Ethics are better defined.

[BonjourUSA]

16. Abashment between "moral values" and "moral order".

"moral values" are necessary for building a society with common rules, these rules can change with the society itself.

The "moral order" is a recessive idea of this society with the fear of any change. The "moral order" must save the values of a group which believe it is the only owner of the only real values. The real values must be saved even by force

[YDogg]

17. Whatever ...

... pukes say they are.

[necso]

18. "Moral values" are

that subset of "values" in general, that are called "moral values" by a society or groups within that society. The dominant group or groups within a society can be expected to, more or less, set these bounds -- if only because they will refuse to recognize any other definition.

Personally, I see no (essential) inherent difference between say "thrift" and "frankness" (my version of "honesty" in speech)... except for the circumstances in which these are to be applied. "Thrift" is applied when you are dealing with a resource (any resource). "Frank" is what you are required to be with people with whom you have a special relationship. (Of course there are times when neither will prove possible -- or wise.)

The definition of what constitutes "moral" is cultural. A multi-cultural society typically has a "code" of behavior that is expected to supersede the "moral beliefs" of the subcultures within it. Such a "code" often extends beyond the the written law and can be considered a basis of the "culture" of the overall society.

Certainly, one can expect the subcultures within a society to strongly influence the overall societal "code" -- but when they consume it, the society no longer passes the test of being truly multi-cultural.

I find the Noahite laws an interesting example of an attempt by a religious society to define a "moral" standard by which to judge members of other cultures (whether these lived apart or not). And while I do not suggest enforcing the Christian counterpart as a "code" for non-Christians living in America, still it poses a question for Christians (specifically American ones) to answer: How do you deal with non-believers? Do you insist on making everyone obey your particular sectarian doctrine? Or do you concede the existence of some American cultural "code", one different from your sectarian doctrine, that "binds" both believers and non-believers as they act within society.

In the case of the End Timers, the answer seems clear: Absorption -- or destruction.

Somehow, this seems un-American to me.

[necso]

19. "Christian moral values"

are pretty much what some "Christian" (part of a group -- and group-think, generally) claims and interprets them to be... regardless of what might happen to be written in the Gospels -- or to be the historical practise.

It is easy to understand how an impractical (the world is full of various violent and unscrupulous people -- and sometimes nations) and demanding value like pacifism can be discarded. And it is also the case that generally something can be found in the Bible to rationalize most behaviors... at least with a predisposition to find (and interpret) it so.

Modern popular Christianity often has little enough to do with emulating the life of their Christ and following the core of his teachings -- but then, that would be inconvenient.

Charity (physical), specifically, is inconvenient -- and detracts from one's own possibilities for materialism. However, it is more widely found in some form in "Christian" practise than pacifism is. Charity in the form of having a charitable outlook (open-mindedness and tolerance) means accepting other ways of doing things and other "philosophies". This encroaches on the buzz that seems to come from self righteousness (self gratification) and runs counter to the need to have one's outlook reflected back uniformly from the world round one (self gratification and fear mitigation).

[OneTwentyoNine]

20. See also; Head buried in sand

Actually nothing more than another Repuke BS "talking point"

And....We'll TELL you who to vote for and not to vote for.

1. Don't look for yourself
2. Don't check facts
3. Don't look up articles

[RPM]

21. I am of no religious affiliation - I have moral values.

My moral values are based upon these basic points:
- Do not abridge another's right to do that which does not directly affect you - i practice this by allowing others to freely worship, think, and act as they see fit, resisting only when it affects my ability to do the same

- Do for others what you would have them do for you - to this end, I give to charities which help the destitute, let people feed onto the highway, etc.

- Approach all persons as equals with something to offer - I do not assume people to be dumb, ignorant, poor, cool or anyother quality based on their first impression - after that, they are on their own.

Am I perfect at it all the time - no, who is.

But this is my moral code and i guess at some level it makes me a moral values person - and i want that label back from the christofacists.

[orpupilofnature57]

22. Altruistic obligations, ant's have them too, right?

[zann725]

24. Because they're Wolves in Sheep's clothing...

n/t