Fallujah Napalmed

[EnfantTerrible]

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14920109&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=fallujah-napalmed-name_page.html


FALLUJAH NAPALMED

Nov 28 2004


US uses banned weapon ..but was Tony Blair told?


By Paul Gilfeather Political Editor

US troops are secretly using outlawed napalm gas to wipe out remaining insurgents in and around Fallujah.

News that President George W. Bush has sanctioned the use of napalm, a deadly cocktail of polystyrene and jet fuel banned by the United Nations in 1980, will stun governments around the world.

And last night Tony Blair was dragged into the row as furious Labour MPs demanded he face the Commons over it. Reports claim that innocent civilians have died in napalm attacks, which turn victims into human fireballs as the gel bonds flames to flesh.

Outraged critics have also demanded that Mr Blair threatens to withdraw British troops from Iraq unless the US abandons one of the world's most reviled weapons. Halifax Labour MP Alice Mahon said: "I am calling on Mr Blair to make an emergency statement to the Commons to explain why this is happening. It begs the question: 'Did we know about this hideous weapon's use in Iraq?'"


Since the American assault on Fallujah there have been reports of "melted" corpses, which appeared to have napalm injuries.


Last August the US was forced to admit using the gas in Iraq.


A 1980 UN convention banned the use of napalm against civilians - after pictures of a naked girl victim fleeing in Vietnam shocked the world.


America, which didn't ratify the treaty, is the only country in the world still using the weapon.

[Flammable Materials]

1. Is it now safe to say ... ?

George W. Bush is worse than Saddam Hussein.

[demnan]

2. War crimes

when will the criminals who run our country be brought to justice?

[indepat]

3. Outlawed, smoutlawed: there's little if any coverage and no outrage

[EnfantTerrible]

8. Where is our news coverage?

Where are our embedded reporters? I'm sickened by this news, but sadly not surprised.

[Dhalgren]

4. Look, it's very plain -

you are either with the Evil Bastard Bush or you are against him. Everyone has, at this point, made that choice. I am against the blood-thirsty little monster, but most Americans appear to be "with" him. Our options are as clear as they are ever going to be. It is passed time to pick sides...

[Ironpost]

6. Your sooooo right.

The best 5 sentences I've read in a while.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. you are either with the Evil Bastard Bush or you are against him

I thought this was the same kind of damaging black/white view of reality that we're supposed to be fighting. Just because I don't like Bush doesn't mean I need to believe what al Jazeera says.

[Ian David]

5. Is the Sunday Mirror a credible source?

[Stephanie]

10. Yes

It's a tabloid - sensational and gossipy - but credible. A mainstream paper.

This is sickening. Just when you think it can't get any worse.

[Heyo]

17. It's a tabloid?

... sensational and gossipy?

But credible?

:shrug:

Heyo

[slackmaster]

7. Sources cited include "news" and "reports"

I'll believe it when the Red Cross or Red Crescent verify it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

33. Re: Sources cited include "news" and "reports"

They appear only to be citing al Jazeera, in which it's stated that someone thinks they saw melted bodies, thus proving that the US used napalm. I'm certainly no fan of Bush, but that doesn't mean I'm going to believe a damn word that al Jazeera has to say.

[maddezmom]

36. do you trust Newsweek?

Phantom Fury was designed to warn off all antagonists, inside or outside Iraq. After nearly seven months of insurgent rule, Fallujah had become a symbol of anti-U.S. resistance. Jihadi Web sites praised the success of the city's holy warriors, and young men from all over the Muslim world flocked to join them. The operation began on Monday night with an aerial bombardment unmatched since the "Shock and Awe" campaign of March 2003. Artillery, mortars and 1,000-pound bombs rained down on northern Fallujah, shaking the earth and kicking up huge balls of fire and bursts of yellow and green sparks. AC-130 gunships flew low and spewed bullets by the thousands. At intervals, white phosphorus rounds would illuminate entire sections of the city, showering down balls of orange flame and leaving behind smoky jellyfish-shaped silhouettes. During the lulls, the wailing prayer calls of the muezzin could be heard echoing out of the city. Members of Kilo Company's second platoon, Spartan-two, watched the pyrotechnics from an attack position north of the city. They broke into admiring whistles after each concussive blast. "This was the real show," said Sgt. Joseph Gary, who fought in the spring 2003 drive to Baghdad. "Nothing came close to this."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6479631/site/newsweek/

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

38. white phosphorous does not equal napalm

white phosphorous rounds are used for illumination

Edit: am I mising something?

[fraud08]

9. if a tree falls in a forest, and no one sees it...

then WHO CARES?

:cry:

[slackmaster]

11. Link to Al Jazeera report - sounds like phosphorous not napalm

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=5875

...Other residents of that area also said that banned weapons were used. Abu Sabah, said; “They used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud… then small pieces fall from the air with long tails of smoke behind them."

From the descriptions I'd say the effects described are consistent with phosphorous munitions and not napalm - The smoke trails clinch it for me. If you've ever seen phosphorus burn you know what I mean.

My uncle ran a trucking company in South Vietnam during the war in the late 1960s. He regularly sent us photos of trucks that had been phosphorous-bombed. They were melted to the axle level.

Look at this on another level - Napalm is good for defoliating areas quickly. That's what it was used for in Vietnam. There's nothing to defoliate in Fallujah. Using napalm as an anti-personnel weapon would violate every custom and tradition of war as well as the law. With the intense scrutiny being given this action I can't believe that members of the US military could be persuaded to do something so ghastly AND keep it a secret.

[LandOLincoln]

12. Phosphorus instead of napalm?

Isn't it equally awful? Wasn't white phosphorus an ingredient in the dreaded "Greek fire" of ancient and medieval warfare, by which knights were literally cooked alive in their armor?

[Liberaltarian]

14. phosphorous weapons are banned too.

as if it mattered to "our troops".

[Columbia]

23. WP is not a banned munition

[RBHam]

13. The U.S.A. uses Weapons Of Mass Destruction?

Is the U.S.A. harboring terrorists too?

[comsymp]

16. Presumably, that was a rhetorical question. If not, start here

[Todd B]

21. Ah yes..

Only in Amerikka can the government wage a "war" to rid other nations of "weapons of mass destruction" all the while they continue to produce these weapons en masse.

The irony is sickening; if the US Government is all about compassion and "spreading liberty" then why won't they sign on to a treaty banning these weapons? (He asked rhetorically)

[RFM]

24. who US?! NEVER!

[DrWeird]

15. US committing war crimes? That's unpossible!

:eyes:

[EnfantTerrible]

19. Not to mention the use of DU

and I don't mean this place. Depleated Uranium artillery. Armor piercing rounds that take...oh... 500,000 years to disappear and cause a whole litany of birth defects and cancers. The US and Britain used them in the Gulf War... As well as in Kosovo.

In other words a low grade Nuclear Weapon.

[Columbia]

25. DU does not employ fission or fusion

Thus not a nuclear weapon.

You could say it was a low-level radioactive weapon though.

[RFM]

26. WMD is a better SOUND-BYTE

we need to get like the reTHUGs with our marketing/msg

[EnfantTerrible]

27. Thanks

I misspoke. Either way it spells WTF are we doing using these weapons?

[RFM]

18. randi rhodes is now defending troops who commit crimes :puke:

:wtf:

she sounds like she never got out of boot-camp and she's defending war crimes :crazy:

the leaders MUST BE held to account but ALSO the perps.

[EnfantTerrible]

20. Really?

What did she say exactly?

[RFM]

22. she was saying you can't EVER blame the troops...

well she should take another look at the UCMJ and her HISTORY books... we are the 'GOOD GUYS" because we already FOUGHT this war and WON then tried those who tried to justify their crimes based on 'i was just following orders'

of course NO ONE should BLAME the actions of a few on EVERYONE but she is NOT making that distinction, unfortunately.

[EnfantTerrible]

28. Don't mean to leave this hanging

but I'm about to board a flight to NY... I'll check back in 4-5 hours.

[Ian David]

29. Credible Sources

Look,

I have absolutely no problem believing our troops WOULD use napalm on civilians (again).

I personally just feel the need for more confirmatory evidence before I believe they DID use napalm on civilians (again).

I do not consider a gossipy sensationalist tabloid to be a "credible source."

And I do not consider Al Jazeera to be any more credible than Fox News. If anything, they are SLIGHTLY less credible than Fox, because at least Fox has competition to rein them in somewhat.

When Al Jazeera has to compete with the Arab-language equivalent of Jon Stewart, Al Franken or even a Tim Russert, then I'll start believing them when they use the word "Napalm."

Like one of the other posters said, let's see what The Red Cross says. The Red Cross, Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, The BBC, or that Australian newspaper that seems to be getting their fair share of scoops lately.

[RFM]

31. well, we won't let any media or doctors in there

and considering our recent behavior - targeting hospitals, ambulances, denying aid, torture of CHILDREN in front of their MOTHERS and making it LEGAL then promoting the author of these new rules the HEAD of 'justice', executing the wounded, it certainly rings true to me.

:hi:

[Djinn]

32. They admit to using napalm like substances

personally I'm no less horrified because the name is different and the chemical make-up is slightly different

This is not disputed and isn't even new..

The MK-77 are filled with a different mix of incendiary chemicals than napalm but have the same terrifying effect, a penetrating fire that seeps into dug-in infantry positions.

(snip)

We napalmed both those (bridge) approaches," Colonel Randolph Alles, the commander of Marine Air Group 11, was quoted as telling the newspaper.

it's obviously enough like napalm for Colonels to refer to it as that

(snip)

"The generals love napalm," Alles was quoted as saying.
"It has a big psychological effect."

There is nothing defensible about this war, it's immoral and it's illegal and every serving soldier should get the hell out anyway they can



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145835413.html

[maddezmom]

37. white phosphorus...does the same as reported in Newsweek

Phantom Fury was designed to warn off all antagonists, inside or outside Iraq. After nearly seven months of insurgent rule, Fallujah had become a symbol of anti-U.S. resistance. Jihadi Web sites praised the success of the city's holy warriors, and young men from all over the Muslim world flocked to join them. The operation began on Monday night with an aerial bombardment unmatched since the "Shock and Awe" campaign of March 2003. Artillery, mortars and 1,000-pound bombs rained down on northern Fallujah, shaking the earth and kicking up huge balls of fire and bursts of yellow and green sparks. AC-130 gunships flew low and spewed bullets by the thousands. At intervals, white phosphorus rounds would illuminate entire sections of the city, showering down balls of orange flame and leaving behind smoky jellyfish-shaped silhouettes. During the lulls, the wailing prayer calls of the muezzin could be heard echoing out of the city. Members of Kilo Company's second platoon, Spartan-two, watched the pyrotechnics from an attack position north of the city. They broke into admiring whistles after each concussive blast. "This was the real show," said Sgt. Joseph Gary, who fought in the spring 2003 drive to Baghdad. "Nothing came close to this."



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6479631/site/newsweek/

[EnfantTerrible]

39. Hey, I'm with you...

I would love for a more credible source to back this up. I posted it because it came to me from someone whom I trust and is more informed than me. I put it out there in the hopes that someone would know something about it or have heard about it. If nothing else I will be actively seeking coverage of this (supposed) event in more credible places.

I also wouldn't put it past the US to use chemical weapons like this on civilians... they're already using weapons that are equally bad.

on edit: I googled trying to find some main-stream coverage or at least semi-credible sources for this story. I came up with a large number matches but nothing that you would bet the ranch on (most of them I'd never heard of). The Sunday Mirror seems to be the most credible source reporting on this.

[RFM]

30. no worries

i was just ranting anyways... i love her but sometimes her fast-talking get's a bit fanatical, but hey that's what the public wants these days and she is VERY good at it.

have a safe/good trip :toast:

[EnfantTerrible]

40. Cheers

Welcome to DU RFM

:hi:

[jayctravis]

34. Is there any way we can bar Bush from returning to the country? (n/t)