Help? Explain how references to Bush the anti-Christ hurts Dems, please.

[patrice]

I know it makes us seem kookie, but it isn't "official" party stuff, just like the Rapture isn't official Republican stuff, but it works in their favor anyway.

I was told (in a "Kerry" listserve) that talking about the possibility that Bush is the anti-Christ is blasphemy and would result in more Dem losses in the future.

Really, my post emphasized the hypothetical nature of the idea. I said why I was interested in it AND why I thought it might be bunk, but I was chastized nonetheless. I don't understand.

Did I just out a troll in the listserve?

[rwenos]

1. People Think They Have To Truckle to RWingnuts

so they're scared when we say anything using the following words:

Moron
Stupid
Anti-Christ
Fraud
Jim Crow
Hypocrisy
Storm Trooper
Blackshirt
Fascist

But they still fit. Keep usin' 'em, I say.

[patrice]

7. I believe it is true that we ran too much to the center this year.

We have to talk to the base TOO. I am a spiritual person. I believe in "living entities" who affect our lives. The "mind of the people" as expressed in the recent election is such an entity. Such entities are sometimes referenced in mythology, but they could be just as well described in terms of cognitive science.

[Dookus]

2. Why even spend a second

dealing with the concept of an "anti-christ"? It's mythology.

[patrice]

3. Definition of mythology please? n/t

[Dookus]

5. um

a body of, or the study of, myths.

Don't play pedantic games. The god-stories of an ancient people are myths. Let's stop treating them as if they're based in literal reality.

[patrice]

12. All forms of cognition are based literally in concrete realities.

They're given all kinds of labels, but all of them come from the same place, human experience.

[Dookus]

15. ok

let's get literal.

Jesus Christ, if he existed at all (and it's doubtful) was a normal human being. There is no anti-christ any more than there's going to be an anti-dookus.

The very idea is just ancient superstition and we're about 600 years overdue for the Grand Getting Over It.

[patrice]

26. I agree that everything you are saying is true

to you and to others with similar perceptions.

Perception is almost everything.

I believe someone like Jesus existed. I think his story has been hugely warped, and many have discarded his "message" for this plastic Buddy Jesus we live with today, who rewards Sunday school attendees with candy and pizza (FACT).

His story really goes something more like that which researchers of the "historical Jesus" describe, even to the possibility that his body was possibly stashed in a shallow grave and dogs could have dug it up and scattered the bones.

I also like Nikos Kazantzakis's take on it in "The Last Temptation of Christ".

At any rate, the truths illustrated do not depend upon the details of that particular story, "true" or "not-true", in the same way that there is a great deal to reality that does not depend upon our perception of it. I may be in error in my reproduction of in-audible sounds, but that doesn't mean that they are not real.

[Dookus]

29. I also have no doubt

that many people LIKE Jesus existed - and by that I mean people who talked about nice things.

But John's prophecies are not to be taken seriously.

[MnFats]

10. C'Mon! You MUST know Bush is in league with Beelzebub!

Satan, Lucifer, Old Scratch, Darth Vader....oh, wait. about that last one....

[MnFats]

11. C'Mon! You MUST know Bush is in league with Beelzebub!

Satan, Lucifer, Old Scratch, Darth Vader....oh, wait. about that last one....

[TahitiNut]

24. Yup. He's Ba'alzedubya

afterbirth incarnate

[2Design]

4. it was in the catholic christian monitor - someone posted

before election - pope thought he was

sure has gotten up my gander against christians who voted the monster in

so I would say he is
christ was kind and loving to all
these people are not

dems can keep trying to get their approval and they will fail
we can instead go after the 40 million people who were eligible to vote but did not

I have no intention anymore or ever of convincing a repub to vote for sanity and love and caring about people

I will find new people who have those qualities and make sure they are registered to vote

not the ones who put on the airs as they go to church and then walk by homeless or poor and say - get a job
but we only will pay you minimum wage - and there is no affordable housing

those christians can kiss my donkey

they are not worth talking to or being around anymore

[MnFats]

14. Might that be the Christian Science Monitor?

not connected with Catholicism.
fairly reliable newspaper, despite its ownership.

[2Design]

16. no it was a catholic paper - I must have the name wrong

[patrice]

17. Do we know anything about that 40 million's attitudes toward religion?

Would they be interested in taxing churches for instance?

Yes, yes, I know that is considered a political non-starter amongst those who are already political, but especially as tax cuts and deficits grow, don't you think some people will be interested in new sources of revenue.

Look at how fat Jerry Falwell is! Some nice heavy taxes would slim him down, be good for him, make him more "Christ Like".

[patrice]

18. LOVE that! "Kiss my donkey!" - Will use it! n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

21. Well, Wayne Madsden alleged that the pope thought Dubya

might be the AntiChrist. The pope has never made a public statement on this, for obvious reasons.

[Raster]

6. Horse puckey, plain and simple. Next they tell you any criticism of

* will hurt the dems. Grow a fucking spine people! There should be more criticism, intentional and otherwise of gee-dubya. We must not fall into the "can't criticise the president" crap. Get a clue. Despite what the pukes tell you, the president works for us. And you know something, if I was a christian, I would have major concerns about gee-dubya being the anti-something. He may wrap himself in supposed chrisitian piety, but NO ONE who presides over the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens is a good, decent man. And when you consider this entire UNGODLY Iraq war was predicated on a series of out-and-out lies, well then the evil factor goes right up the roof. This wasn't a war of necessity. This is a war of greed, hubris and vanity.

[patrice]

20. Amen to that!

There are millions of Christians who KNOW you are right!

[RyomaSakamoto]

8. the POPE thinks he's the ANTI CHRIST...

"Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament. Before he became Pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel." The Pope, who grew up facing the evils of Hitler and Stalin, knows evil when he sees it. Although we can all endlessly argue over the Pope's effectiveness in curtailing abuses within his Church, his accomplishments external to Catholicism are impressive.

According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. By permitting the attacks to take their course, there is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup d'etat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda.

The Pope worked tirelessly to convince leaders of nations on the UN Security Council to oppose Bush's war resolution on Iraq. Vatican sources claim they had not seen the Pope more animated and determined since he fell ill to Parkinson's Disease. In the end, the Pope did convince the leaders of Mexico, Chile, Cameroon, and Guinea to oppose the U.S. resolution. If one were to believe in the Book of Revelations, as the Pope fervently does, he can seek solace in scoring a symbolic victory against the Bush administration. Whether Bush represents a dangerous right-wing ideologue who couples his political fanaticism with a neo-Christian blood cult (as I believe) or he is either the anti-Christ or heralds one, the Pope should know he has fought the good battle and has gained the respect and admiration of many non-Catholics around the world."

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html

be afraid... very afraid :scared:

[judaspriestess]

23. I posted this exact same article

on another forum, a sports forum that had a political section and I was BANNED. They said I was a weirdo for posting that story.
I said f-you before I was gone. I'll tell ya, those repubes on there were friggin mean and vicious, scary.......

[NVMojo]

9. oh, crapola. I was just talking to someone about the very same thing

tonight on the phone. Beat me!

Are opinions not allowed now??

[Solitaire]

19. Not sure I can be more scared than I am :(

:scared:

[Cleita]

13. Blasphemy always results in Dem losses, sure.

Those people who voted for Bush were marketed to by some very sophisticated advertising experts, you know the guys who get you to buy their product. The only difference is they sold Bush to a bunch of lazy voters who didn't bother to question what they were buying. Blasphemy, indeed.

[patrice]

22. Blasphemy against Mammon, that is. n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

25. Give me a break

I have had way too much fun with that to stop using it now. It's my answer to the, you will burn in the fires of hell evil liberal, junk that I get thrown at me. :) Funny thing is I think some of them believed me!

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. I am a Christian, and _I_ think he is the AC!

-------------------------------------
Would Jesus love aliberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[Oak2004]

28. I think, frankly, from an unbiased Evangelical perspective, he would have

to be a very good candidate.

Seriously.

I personally think that "of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone", in other words, that a Christian has no business speculating about the end of the world. But I can certainly apply the Bible to an understanding of evil, and even if Bush and his allies aren't some particular Antichrist to be found near the end of days, they are most certainly antichristly (opposed to the Christ and leading others astray in His name, all this nonspecific to a figure appearing near the end of days. The Bible indicates that there will be many such antichrists).

If I'm willing to, for a moment, suspend my understanding of scripture and dabble in eschatology, then Bush is a very serious candidate for being the Antichrist. For real.

I've been thinking about writing a book on this (it's in the planning stages). American Christians need to be warned that they are being intentionally misled by people who are adhirents of a nihilistic political philosophy, a key component of which is the manipulation of the people, with false religion, to do evil (Straussianism).

I've been surprised, actually, that there has been very little written on this. I know that not all of Christianity has been sucked into these dark plots, and that understanding the American far right as animated by the spirit of antichrist isn't stretching scriptural interpretation in the least bit.

[Erika]

30. Bush the Anti Christ?

In the last days good will be knowwn as evil and evil known as good. For the republicans to say we have to make the rich richer while denying benefits for the poor, show the evil of Republicanism.

[patrice]

32. It looks like a "Christian" cartel doesn't it.

With the little fish symbols in so much advertising.

"Having Faith results in financial success, and what you have is yours by divine right, and, therefore, it is not only not necessary to share it with others, but they are wrong to ask for anything that prevents you from owning that Hummer or your 5,000 sq. ft. house."

"christianity" looks an awful lot like a business to me, that's why I say "Tax the church."

[patrice]

31. Thank you for this. It helps.

It's late, so I can't look into it further, but I suspect the reference to blasphemy relates to a distinction I ran across in Sojourners this week, in which the author's friend expressed a concern that a "rational application of Jesus' teaching will take priority over a direct experience of the Almighty. In other words, Jesus is more than a great teacher, but the very presence of God."

On the whole, I think it is more healthy to talk/write about taboos than it is to be oppressed by them, so good luck with your book.

I'll bookmark this thread and return when my mind is fresh.