Christopher Hedges, ex-NYTimes reporter: The draft is imminent.

[milkyway]

This is from five days ago in a local paper. Many people, including myself, may have missed this while wrapped up in the election.

Draft coming, students told

By SUSAN ELAN
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: November 5, 2004)

Reinstatement of the draft is imminent, war correspondent and author Christopher Hedges told a crowd of more than 120 students and residents yesterday at Manhattanville College.

"We are losing the war in Iraq very badly, but the Bush administration will not walk away from the debacle without trying to reoccupy huge swaths of the territory they have lost," Hedges said. While working for The New York Times, he covered fighting in Central America, the Balkans and the Middle East, including Iraq during the first Gulf War.

To regain territory lost in Iraq, it will take double or triple the current 140,000 troops, Hedges said during the last lecture in a series called "The Costs of War."

The reservists and National Guard members who make up half of the U.S. forces are stretched to the breaking point and need relief, he said, and the draft is the only way to assemble the numbers needed. Reintroduction of the draft will be made in the name of the war on terrorism soon after an attack in the United States or abroad, he predicted.

"The war in Iraq will no longer be an abstraction," he said. "It will become deeply personal. In the next few weeks look for shifts in administration policy leading in the direction of an escalation of the war."
<more>

http://www.nyjournalnews.com/print_newsroom/110504/b10w05wartalk.html

This, unfortunately, has the ring of truth to it.

[WindRavenX]

1. no shit it has a ring of truth

BUT NO ONE LISTENED.
You voted for Bush- YOU GO FIGHT A FUCKING MEANINGLESS WAR.

[bullimiami]

5. they can try to take my son from my cold dead hands.

im not letting go.

there are a good 50+million lunatics that voted for bush who should be volunteering right now. there should be no need for a draft.

SEND THE TWINS. SEND JORGE P BUSH.

[WindRavenX]

7. exactly

I ask every Bush supporter "Why aren't YOU fighting for this war that YOU believe in?"
And they flub some bullshit. Chickenshits.

[HuskerDem]

149. I asked some young pukes at a bush rally in Cincinnati

Why, if they loved blinky and his war so much they weren't in Iraq shooting some "aaay-rabs"? Their WEAK ass answer?

"We signed up in our own way........... we're contributing to the fight here."

I EXPLODED! I Got right in their faces loud and hard.(It's OK 'cause I'm a little 5ft tall 30 something mom)

I said to them them: "You signed up IN YOUR OWN WAY? FANTASTIC, JUST LIKE YOUR CANDY ASS DRAFT DODGING DARK LORD! YOU STAY BEHIND AND SWALLOW PROPAGANDA WHOLE AND SLAP A STUPID........ MEANINGLESS....... CHEAP PIECE OF CRAP YELLOW RIBBON ON THE SUV YOUR MOMMY PAID FOR WHILE THE REAL PATRIOTS DO THE WORK OF BLEEDING AND DYING for YOU????? PERFECT!!!

Little weasels had NOTHING to say except........... "fuck this, we ain't got time man......." So I shouted at their backs if they didn't want to go to Iraq they should start looking into other countries VERY SOON. Some freeper bitch looked at me and said "why don't you leave those boys alone?" I told her the "insurgents" in Falluja kill boys like that every single day. She didn't have an answer either.

After I got done with the whole exchange I was shaking all over. It just felt so GOOD to face these people down.

[okieinpain]

43. yes, and another 50 million that did not vote, because they think

there is no difference between the two parties. so the army should have plenty of volunteers.

[NVMojo]

47. the same here only I have three sons between 18 and 25 ...

I agree, make the Repukes volunteer.

[Spinzonner]

70. I understand the desire

but isn't making someone volunteer a somewhat contradiction in terms.

Of coourse, with Republican 'logic', all things are possible so maybe I shouldn't dsmiss it out of hand ...

[rainbow4321]

Special skills draft...

Age won't make a diff if they do that medical/special skills draft cuz the age cut off is 44 yrs old. It allows the feds to pick and choose what "skills" are needed and they will get to pluck those people out of the US population. And this special skills draft can be started WITHOUT the regular draft kicking in. I've said for a while now that by using the special skills/medical clause shrub will pacify his elite base cuz his BASE don't have the skills that will be called upon. It will be the middle and lower class folks...so not only to his elite get their tax relief, they get to keep their young HOME while OURS go and get killed in whatever country shrub occupies next!

[rainbow4321]

Special skills draft...

Age won't make a diff if they do that medical/special skills draft cuz the age cut off is 44 yrs old. It allows the feds to pick and choose what "skills" are needed and they will get to pluck those people out of the US population. And this special skills draft can be started WITHOUT the regular draft kicking in. I've said for a while now that by using the special skills/medical clause shrub will pacify his elite base cuz his BASE don't have the skills that will be called upon. It will be the middle and lower class folks...so not only to his elite get their tax relief, they get to keep their young HOME while OURS go and get killed in whatever country shrub occupies next!

[rainbow4321]

130. Special skills draft...

Age won't make a diff if they do that medical/special skills draft cuz the age cut off is 44 yrs old. It allows the feds to pick and choose what "skills" are needed and they will get to pluck those people out of the US population. And this special skills draft can be started WITHOUT the regular draft kicking in. I've said for a while now that by using the special skills/medical clause shrub will pacify his elite base cuz his BASE don't have the skills that will be called upon. It will be the middle and lower class folks...so not only to his elite get their tax relief, they get to keep their young HOME while OURS go and get killed in whatever country shrub occupies next!

[rainbow4321]

132. Fuck..sorry my 'puter belched and reposted!! n/t

[Samurai_Writer]

75. My son VOTED for that idiot!

And he's 23, prime draft age. He's already said if he was drafted, he would go. This just cannot be my child. He must have been switched at birth.

:(

[TexasBushwhacker]

6. Unfortunately, most of the young people voted for Kerry

and they're the ones who'll get drafted. Blame their lame brain parents who voted for Bush.

[Crunchy Frog]

26. Unfortunately, most young people

didn't vote at all. By choosing not to vote, they were in effect, choosing to keep Bush in power, with whatever consequences ensue.

I really have little sympathy for people who chose not to vote and then don't like the consequences of that choice.

[TexasBushwhacker]

32. True, the 18 to 24's didn't turn out

It was the 25 to 30's that made the overall "30 and under" turnout acceptable. However, I also think that the 18 - 24's had many more absentee votes, which in some states aren't being counted because "there isn't enough of them to make a difference". I also think that newly registered voters were more likely to not show up on the voter rolls and either cast provisional ballots that didn't get counted, or didn't understand their rights regarding provisional ballots. The 18 - 24 group may have voted in bigger numbers than before, but still nothing close to the 60% voter turn out nationwide. Sad, it may cost them their lives.

[AlexHamilton]

137. Actually...

I think more young people turned out than ever before. I know at my level I saw students mobilizing on unprecedented levels this past year, and many crying or completely distraught after Bush won. So, it's hard to say they "deserve what they get". Many of them worked just as hard or harder than the adults I have seen around.

Alex
Impeachment by the People

[Lone_Wolf]

177. I work at a college and many young people voted...

I'd dare say more were interested in this election than in years past...

The media could be perpetuating the story that young people aren't interested in politics in order to make them feel powerless. Just a hunch.

[Citizen Carl]

111. That's exactly what I'm going through.

I'm 20 and in college and both of my parents voted for this numbskull. I can't believe they voted for him when it feels like a draft is so imminent. Talk about the "teenage angst" from kids my age after they voted for Kerry, their parents voted for Bush, and the kids get drafted.

[Solitaire]

12. Agreed

I so agree. All those who wanted Bush in office, should go fight the war that he started to avenge his father.

They should also pay for it.

:P

[okieinpain]

45. excuse me but isn't one of the writers statements a LIHOP

"The reservists and National Guard members who make up half of the U.S. forces are stretched to the breaking point and need relief, he said, and the draft is the only way to assemble the numbers needed. Reintroduction of the draft will be made in the name of the war on terrorism soon after an attack in the United States or abroad, he predicted."

[musette_sf]

57. Subject: I'm a MIHOP-er myself...

...and I sent similar thoughts to BuzzFlash right after Election Day. (Nov. 5 Mailbag, p.2). All he left out was the Martial Law part.

BTW, I was thinking MIHOP by sunset on 9/11/01, although the very idea made me sick. Disgusting, but not impossible.

[demokatgurrl]

63. would you please tell me what LIHOP/MIHOP mean?

Sorry I'm a little dense.

[qanda]

66. "Let it happen on purpose"

And "Made it happen on purpose" respectively.

[ncgrits]

56. First draft should come from those that signed the "loyalty" oath. n/t

[Mojambo]

2. Please, Please, PLEASE

Let them bring the draft back.

It's the only way to mount widespread protest against this awful war.

I've always suspected that I was born 2 decades too late. I want my 60's...

[Maat]

3. I remember them.

I want the best of them back right now.

And you are right - the draft will motivate people to take a long, hard look at things.

[cire4]

16. As a 20 year old college student....

I have to AGREE.

That'll get all the apathetic youth to finally give a damn about current events. And all those upper-middle class suburban Bush-loving security Moms will freak out when their sons are being taken away to fight in a strange country.

Oh and the college Republicans....Oh to see the looks on the faces of the College Republicans when they find out they've been drafted. It will be priceless.

[knight_of_the_star]

62. As much as I hate the idea of a draft

And myself being a 19 year-old college student, it would almost be worth it to see the look on their faces when they get the notice of being drafted!

[Laelth]

127. I wouldn't wish the draft on anyone ...

not even the ones who signed the loyalty oath. And if it's anything like Nam, the little rich kids will get out of it, and the poor will, once again, suffer and die for us all. It might help us politically, but I don't wish for it.

just my 2 cents ...

My highest regards to all who have served with honor.

-Laelth

[TomClash]

163. Send your parents to Pendleton

[Citizen Carl]

114. school newspaper...

I think he's a frosh but this one kid wrote an article for our school newspaper against the draft trying to get things riled up and he did pretty well for himself. The small bastions of potential College Republicans were freaking out for 2 weeks.

[puddycat]

21. I think mandatory enlistment would really bring back the protests!

I never could figure out why a "draft" -- it missed people. If we want to incite a nation-wide protest and uprising against these endless wars, then we need mandatory enlistment/service. No exceptions. Ironically, it will do a lot to help stem the tide of over-militarization because then most everyone will have a stake of some sort in our nation's cute little wars.

[0007]

106. You just ain't woofing there, if they thought the 60's were bad

just wait until you see what junior created.

[demokatgurrl]

65. The time is ripe, but sadly, the people aren't ready.

[strategery blunder]

141. Draft only those who didn't vote

The SS (I refuse to use the official "SSS" for Selective Service) would be able to determine who did not vote by looking at county voting records. If your signature is on the rolls, you should be exempt from the draft.

Unfortunately, this would miss all of the college chickenshits who voted for $hrub, but it would also exempt dems who voted for Kerry. There really isn't a way to tell who voted for whom with a secret ballot--the only records that exist are those that record who showed up at the polls.

But I now agree that there should be a draft--to awaken the politically apathetic. I don't want to be caught in one, however, as I am a 19-year old who specifically voted against it. Hence the above proposal.

Sadly, $hrub isn't that picky...:cry:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. On Nov. 4, right after the "election,"

the Selective Service published a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in the Federal Register. The proposed rule would match the Department of Education's computer database with that of the Selective Service to be sure that men who haven't registered for the draft can't get financial aid for college. But I'm sure the timing is just a coincidence....

[mitchum]

116. Of course, this will make sure that those in need of financial aid...

will be the ones who fight the wars, while the parasitical sons of the overclass are exempt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

133. Bingo.

[toymachines]

8. let them try... and feel our rath

they dont like protestets eh.... how about some riots.

[yardwork]

9. If the draft is coming, bring it now

Don't let the Republicans stall on this for four years, so that the draft happens under a newly elected Democratic president. Make the Republicans bring all the ugly results of their poor choices out in the open NOW.

[TexasChick]

17. yardwork, they won't be able to wait another 4 more years. At the rate

things are going now in Iraq, the draft will be probably by May, 2005!

[Goldenliberal]

18. Ironically it's our only hope

They can't let it go for 4 more years...they need bodies NOW. Cannon fodder's getting low and the only thing that will replenish it is the draft...no one in their right mind is volunteering now. Great posts all...esp. war is betrayal...always...all ways...

[okieinpain]

48. some are, they are being told that if they volunteer, they won't

have to go to iraq

[Lizzie Borden]

125. Yeah right. You can always believe the military.

Hell, they won't even let the ones who are due to be out, out.

[ktowntennesseedem]

55. Right on! The sooner, the better! (can't believe I'm sayin' that!)

But this mess will only get worse before it can get better. And it has to get worse quickly for two reasons: One, those of us left who are still in our right minds can start cleaning up the mess sooner, and two, if it happens too slowly we lose the shock value that a rapidly deteriorating situation would bring.

It's only gonna get worse, so let's get it over with as quickly as possible!

[Neshanic]

10. Wow. Amazing last sentence.

"War in the end is always about betrayal. Betrayal of the young by the old, of soldiers by politicians and idealists by cynics."

[Mojambo]

11. Too true

"It's always the old to lead us to the war, always the young to fall"
--Phil Ochs

[Hoping4Change]

44. With so few young voting and so dismally ignorant about

current affairs they betrayed themselves.

[rasbobbo]

117. my first post here

damn i miss phil ochs!

[Mojambo]

123. We all do.

He would be writing some killer topical songs if he were alive today.

[billyoc]

13. Shit. No doubt this will soon be followed by the formation of

the "New Weathermen". Hooo-boy...

[SteppingRazor]

165. OK.

I'm game. Where do I sign up?

[Goldenliberal]

14. Draft is coming

As early as last year I was told that draft boards were gearing up, getting ready for training and personnel. What a sad thing to have to say that I hope those who actually voted for this mad clown, , enjoy reaping the seeds of destruction in the drafting of their children and loved ones. It is, unfortunately, about time that those who advocate war help to fight it, unlike the current administration, none of whom has ever seen any kind of military service, let alone combat.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neshanic]

19. Really, and what makes you so sure it is not?

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Yeah, you just keep telling yourself that.

:eyes:

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Will they rise up with us, those who will be hurt most by the draft?

Will they take to the streets and say NO when we do?

------------------------------------------------------
Fight the fraud; fund the recount!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm

[Bake]

22. I. WILL. NOT. GIVE. THAT. BASTARD. MY. SON.

Carve it in stone. He doesn't get my son. Or my daughter.

Cocksucker.

Bake

[Crunchy Frog]

23. You voted for him?

You can send your children off to die for him. You couldn't be bothered to vote because it's "too much trouble" or "they're both the same"? You can learn first hand what the price of apathy is in a democracy.

I can't feel too bad about this as anyone with any brains could see it coming, and yet more than 70% of this country chose it, either actively or tacitly.

I'm not a heartless bitch. I will be getting involved with my local Quaker meeting to help people with concientious objector issues, just like my mom did in the early sixties. But people who chose this by their vote, or their non-vote, shouldn't be whining about it.

[TexasChick]

28. You know what's so damn funny? That little, blond twit in the second

debate that idolized the chimp about abortion. She's going to be sh*tting a brick when she has to suit up in those fatigues and be shipped out to fight these PNAC wars! You want to bet that abortion will be the last thing on her mind?

[Crunchy Frog]

30. I'd pay money to see that!

:7

[Hoping4Change]

46. Bush's new slogan "save fetuses for future cannon fodder"

[RyomaSakamoto]

24. and they just picked the AUTHORIZER of TORTURE to head 'JUSTICE'

:faint:


Bush names new attorney-general

source...
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/312BF8E8-9980-41C6-BCD4-D45BD3F1D4B4.htm

[Crunchy Frog]

31. So, they'll get to find out

exactly what it means when the Geneva Convention doesn't apply.

[Robeson]

25. Saw it coming

And knew, just like 9/11, that they would use the next attack to use as an excuse to start the draft. Our job is to make sure its an equitable draft, so that all the soccer moms in their Hummers, have to watch little Biff and Scooter also get drafted into the Army.

[Lizzie Borden]

126. I believe it's already been discussed...

No college deferments,aand equal drafting of women. It seems to me that it was Charlie Wrangle who taled about it because now the poor are over-represented.

[Strelnikov_]

27. After Campaign Promise, There Will Have To Be Another 'Pearl Harbor'

They have painted themselves into a corner with their promise of a draft not being necessary to stabilize Iraq. A terrorist attack would probably not do it, and would most likely have negative political consequences for the GOP corporatist oligarchy.

The most likely scenario is an attack on Iran's nuclear infrastructure. Following Iran's retaliatory strike against US interests/forces, they will claim a 'mandate' for a draft to counter the Iranian threat.

My basic conclusion is that the manufactured 'threat' will have to be a state actor since they have been campaigning that the volunteer military is adequate to prosecute the 'War On Terra'.

[NorthernSpy]

33. or they could use a series of poorly-planned, failed assaults in Iraq...

You know -- throw a few bouts and rack up casualties -- just to get the talking heads up and chirping about "sunk costs", and how we need to marshal our full strength for the final push since too many have already died for us abandon the cause now, and how it's all in danger of slipping away, and how it's up to all of us to "step up to the plate". And so on...

Only time will tell.

[okieinpain]

51. funny, tom clancey's red storm rising, has the russian's using

mihop event to get the russian people behind a war. mainly because some islamist destroyed one of their main oil refineries. war for oil, man that book is well over 15 years old. I've read it well over 4 times, guess I need to go and get another copy.

[sunnystarr]

93. Hannity already started

talking about Iran this week telling listeners how bad the government was and that the Iranian people needed saving and a democracy. So I knew the Bush talking points were already given out. Look for more of this talk to get the American people ready to accept a pre-emptive strike in Iran.

[DeepModem Mom]

34. kick

[rndmprsn]

35. we told you so....

fuck!

[PA Democrat]

36. I highly recommend Chris Hedges' book

War is a Force that Gives Us meaning. Hedges is a former war correspondent and he writes powerfully on the subject of how leaders sell war and how it corrupts the moral fabric of a nation.

[Nunne hi]

37. My prediction...

If this misadministration cranks up selective service, it will be more "selective" than before. IOW, there will be a buyout provision for fortunate sons. Will daughters be included? Fundie daughters? Don't bet on it.

If Dems in the house/senate support a draft initiative, I will abandon the party forever.

[Julius Civitatus]

102. I do too!

It's one of the best essays I've ever read, and one of the best anti-war books ever written.

It's been a year afetr I read it, and I still have images in my head I cannot shake off.

[springhill]

169. You are right PA democrat.............

It is a great book. He has insight into what war is really about, and it is chilling and terribly sad.

[immoderate]

38. what if everybody responding to the draft notice just

claims to be gay?

--IMM

[Stevious]

54. Don't ask, do tell...

:nopity:

[PhuLoi]

72. Show up at your induction physical wearing a tube top, mini

skirt and a thong to hold in the butt plug. The only downside would be that they would see you as officer material.

[GodlessBiker]

88. Klinger! Why are you wearing that hat? It's spring, Sir!

[immoderate]

95. LOL

--IMM

[Patiod]

39. Note to 18 yo guys registering for Selective Service

If you do register (in order to keep your college loans, etc), but consider yourself a consciencious objector:

There is nowhere on the form to indicate if you are a consciencious objecter, so write it in on the bottom of the form when you register.

Also, start a file NOW to document your status - if you attend a Mennonite, Quaker, or other peace church, or are a liberal/activist Catholic or part of some sort of anti-war community, make sure you can document this. Start now.

Because once they start the draft and call you in, just sitting there telling the draft board you're "anti-war" doesn't cut it.

[Donna Zen]

40. The new consciencious objecter status

IMHO, the new draft will just put these folks in harm's way without a gun. Maybe driving some of those oil tankers for KBR.

Sorry, but I think that they study the last draft with its loopholes. I would expect the loopholes to all be closed.

We have entered the age of "Big Brother" and before the cry goes out for "draft, draft" the populous will have been ginned to a fever pitch.

Chris Hedges is a brilliant man. Along with PA and Krugman, I recommend his book.

[Chiyo-chichi]

52. They will have to leave some loopholes

so that children of congressmen, corporate CEOs, and major Bush donors will not have to serve.

[Donna Zen]

80. Loophole or "Do not call" list?

Me thinks they'll use the latter. Besides, it will give them additional leverage to keep all the possible strays in line. They know who they are, and know how to protect themselves.

[Plaid Adder]

41. Of course the draft is imminent.

Bottom line is, they do not have enough army to fight all the wars they want to fight. They're not getting more army through volunteers, that's for damn sure. The draft is the only way to do it.

To be honest I figured a draft was probably going to be coming under Kerry too. He kept talking about creating that new division, and I always wondered, "With what soldiers?"

Ah well,

The Plaid Adder

[catmandu57]

42. I asked myself that same question

There is no doubt that the draft is coming, it's already sitting there idling, so it won't take long to ramp up.
I find myself being complacent on this, you're going to get what you wanted all you reptiles and couch monsters. I know many of our children will be caught up in this madness, but this and the collapse of our social contract may be the wakeup call we need.

[okieinpain]

53. I was under the impression that he was going to do it by offering

more incentives to join, like better pay, and schooling options. also his election would have dropped the level of anger around the world a notch or two. I've been really shocked by how the world has taken bush's election.

[TahitiNut]

87. There're less than 40,000 'contractors' who get up to $120K/year ...

... as 'privateers' in Iraq. It seems to me that's an indication of how far 'incentives' have gone in attracting the hoo-rah wannabes.

[MileHiStealth]

151. I'm a laid off commercial electrician and they offered me ...

140 K a year to go work in Iraq and I
was like ... I'll get back to you on that ...
I'll just hang out in the good old US of A
doing side jobs waiting for things to
get better ...

[Lorien]

49. Go through Republican voter rolls

draft those a**holes first. :grr:

[callous taoboy]

50. Check it out, y'all-

Our school janitor, 54, bad limp, somewhat mentally challenged, hell of a guy, a reservist, was called up in mid-Oct. Was to begin training as an artillery grunt (had always done clerk jobs for pretty obvious reasons). Two days after the election his order is rescinded.
What, they don't need him anymore? Draft?

[SnowGoose]

58. Maybe we should start a forum on draft issues...

CO status, deferments, the current status of SSS, etc.

It could be very helpful to DUers who are 'draftable'.

It might also increase our membership from 50,000 to... well, alot!

Any thoughts?

[blueblitzkrieg]

59. This 21 year old says....

FUCK THEM.

They can lock me up before I go over there and kill Iraqi people for the fuck-ups in the Bush administration.

[KansDem]

60. Bush's "Draft and Shaft" plan...

Draft young Americans to get his oil...

Then let the GOP trash their service record if/when they come home.

Just ask John McCain, Max Clelland, and John Kerry, to name a few...

[Dark]

61. What are the ways to get out of the Draft. I know being a student isn't

enough.

Can you still be gay? CO? If you fail a drug test, are you out?

[Richmond27]

64. I apologize for being stupid....

but does anyone know the ages that are most vulnerable to a draft?

[Dark]

71. 18 to 24. And you're not stupid. With all the legal stuff that's been

happening, who knows what may happen now.

[Julien Sorel]

78. The age range in which

you must register is 18-25. However, there are certain fields in which they will all but ignore age -- medicine in particular. If you work in the healthcare field, look out.

Overall, restricting the draft to the young is perhaps not the wisest of ideas, anyway. People are much healthier in middle age than they were in the past. Many of the CIA private contractors running around in Iraq and Afghanistan are retired military folks in their 40s and 50s, and no one thinks twice about it.

[pffarrell]

105. don't know if it's still true or not

but in about 1980 when I almost 'accidentally' joined the air force, they wouldn't take you if you admitted doing drugs. Also, try saying you've been to a therapist but be very coy about why....

[ChicanoPwr]

67. Remember their were two draft bills

If I remember correctly, I think there were two bills in Congress, one in the House and the other in the Senate. I may be wrong, but I only remember one bill being voted on and the is the one that was defeated. If that is the case, the Senate bill is still in committee.

[DrWeird]

68. You can't support the war and not support the draft.

Awful lot of hypocrites in this country.

[mosin]

79. Please explain...

I'm pretty darn sure I disagree with it, but maybe you can explain your assertion.

It's not that I support the war, I just don't see any intellectual inconsistency in supporting the war and opposing compulsory military service.

I don't know anybody who supports compulsory military service. I know a lot of people who support the war.

[DrWeird]

81. If you support the war, that means everybody who is physically able...

to fight should be the ones fighting. That means the rich, white men along side the poor, hispanic men.

Of course there are people who support the war without supporting the draft. But they're all hypocrites, and cowards, and scum.

[mosin]

84. That makes no sense.

If you support the war, you should be willing to fight in it yourself. Supporting the war, and refusing to fight in it yourself is hypocritical.

Supporting the war, while opposing drafting others to fight it on your behalf, may make you a war-monger, but it doesn't make you a hypocritical war-monger.

[DrWeird]

100. That's what I'm saying.

If you support the war you should be willing to fight it, or if you're too old then you should be willing to send your kids.

[mosin]

101. But that's about personal enlistment...

not drafting others.

I guess we don't really disagree. :)

[liberal_patriot_md]

161. Draft bills

In case no one else posted this info. There were two draft bills, one house one senate. They were both proposed by Democrats (Charles Rangel, and I can't remember the other I think it was Evan Bayh(sp?))

BUT here's the catch. These bills weren't serious proposals, they were PROTEST statements put forth during the build up to OIF. They were promptly sent to "committee" the place bills go to die. And basically ignored for a few years. Curiously, after the 2nd debate and shrub's "draft rumors on the internets" nonsense these bills were quickly brought to the floor and voted on. And the bills were unanimously defeated (since these were protest statements even the authors of the bill didn't vote for them).

This whole charade allowed shrub to claim it was democrats behind the draft talk and that there was no way it was going to happen. Which of course is just another one of his bullshit lies. If no draft is coming why on earth have they made an agreement with canada close their borders in the event of the draft and to deport anyone who has previously fled to the great white north to avoid a draft? Make you wonder.

[puttothesword]

69. But! BUT!

Didn't King George the Lesser say in the debates that there wouldn't be a draft? You mean... he lied to me?!?!?!

I'm so crushed... a politician lied to me *sob*

[Zero Gravitas]

73. DRAFT BUSHISTS ONLY

Only those loyal to The Leader should be drafted. Us liberals are "anti-American" wimps right? Can't trust us with a M-16 and RPG launcher.

A draft is almost inevitable IMO. They can't beat the insurgents with the forces on the ground. No-one will come and help us fight Bush's pointless war. They won't pull out because then we will have lost in Iraq and their philosophy is centered around being stronger than everyone else. The only solution is to put double or triple the number of troops into the country & we can't do that without a draft.

[Richmond27]

77. I believe...

That a New York Dem presented the first draft bill just to prove a point that our troops were stretched too thin at this point.

[PhuLoi]

74. For those of you who think joining the Navy will keep you safe.

Do a search on Sunburn missle.

[Strelnikov_]

92. I Agree. I Think The 'Pearl Harbor' They Need Will Be, Well . .

a 'Pearl Harbor'. That is, a provoked Iran sinks a couple of our ships in the gulf.

[FlyByNight]

76. Reactionaries/conservatives don't give a...

shit about anyone or anything until it affects them personally.

I can't wait to see how the Bush-voting red-staters react when a draft is re-instituted. Prepare to be affected - personally.

:evilgrin:

[mosin]

82. Scepticism

I'm still sceptical. I just don't believe the draft rumors. I think you guys are suffering from wishful thinking. It doesn't make any sense, even from the right-wing, neo-con perspective. It is much simpler and cheaper to increase the pay, benefits, and other incentives to join the military rather than implement the massive bureaucracy needed to support a draft. Plus, increasing pay can be pitched as them supporting our troops. A Republican-pushed draft would guarantee huge Democratic gains in the 2006 election, and they know it.

[milkyway]

86. What elections? Like the Geneva Conventions, they might become

a "quaint" relic of the past.

I understand your skepticism. It is hard to imagine them trying to implement a draft. But bush is going to go nuts in his second term. A lot more war, a lot more terror attacks. It will be a much different, much worse, climate than right now.

[springhill]

170. Gains, how?

It is rigged, get that through your head. They know what they are doing. They'll win some more races in 2006 due to the rigged machines. Of course, don't forget Patriot Act II, coming soon I'm sure. Then with our involvemnt in multiple wars (that is their plan you know, PNAC anyone?) they will be forced to declare martial law.

[Strelnikov_]

90. We Will Probably See An Increase In 'Contractors'

aka mercenaries. You know, perpetual war for fun and profit.

Also, I fully expect a proposal for a 'Foreign Legion' type of service to spring up shortly. That is, foreigners can enlist and earn citizenship upon completion of a term of enlistment.

[mosin]

96. You're right...

about the "contractors." There are definite plans to civilianize many of the support roles currently filled by uniformed soldiers.

[milkyway]

109. You might be right about both. It's easier to buy cannon fodder than

develop it yourself.

[bobbieinok]

173. think that 'foreign legion' type thing already exists

That is, foreigners can enlist and earn citizenship upon completion of a term of enlistment.

[SnowGoose]

103. If we were talking about hiring accountants, I'd agree...

But consider that ordinary enlisted grunts get paid crap.

Crap plus 20 percent versus the very real chance of being killed or horribly maimed/disfigured for life? You'd have to do better than that to appeal to my sense of greed. And the longer we go, the harder it will be to lure people with financial incentives, since the public is slowly becoming aware of the large number of wounded.

I've said elsewhere that I think they would *need* a 'terrorist attack' before the public would go for a draft. Operation Northwoods, anyone?

But I hope you're right. I'd much rather have people sign up than have a draft - no smug sense of 'I told you so' would assuage my grief and anger at seeing people rounded up and sent off to war against their will. Many of them would be people who did everything they could to send this corrupt administration back to Texas.

[ktowntennesseedem]

120. I share your skepticism, but

I think we'll end up with a draft as soon as the Republicans can figure out how to blame it on Bill Clinton and John Kerry.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DubyaSux]

167. Not necessarily...

....over the short term, you are correct. But over the long term, no way. Those increases will "stick" even if we are not in an active conflict (which is possible once we're able to vote the republicans out). The losses would be staggering for a very long time then.

My bet is, that Rummy will introduce and implement the draft before he resigns. Then Bush can blame somebody else - as usual.

[bobbieinok]

172. raise pay, benefits???? no way....all money goes to tax cuts and Halli

burton, et al

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zero Gravitas]

85. With any luck

you will be among the first to be drafted and sent fight in your Great Leader's stupid war. Enjoy.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[genieroze]

89. Look Kerry Warned Them

The soldies are dying fast http://icasualties.org/oif/ Six since yesterday. This Fallujah thing is s smokescreen to take out attention away from the rigged election. Our young men are being reduced to cannon fodder so heir Bush gets his theocracy. Would you like to hear from the other side about whats going on? http://www.trackingterrorism.com/

[sunnystarr]

91. Let them draft from the Evangelical Churches...

and start in Texas then move throughout the south. It's their holy war not ours.

[natrat]

97. agree- a distraction

worst case is a new mihop event and the 58 million stupid will actually buy into it all w/ a little help from fox/cnn-idiots

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

94. MAKE IT A BUSH "FAMILY REUNION"

It will be really amusing watching them trying to draft language for the "Draft" so that it won't affect Jenna, Barbara and Jorge P! I agree with other writers: Let the 59,000,000 "Dumb People" go!

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[genieroze]

99. Not Me I Voted For Kerry

To bad you can't name who those 59 million are. You voted for Bush you go fight. I bet lots of people will say I voted for Kerry. lol

[noonriser]

104. My kids aren't going...

over my dead body if that's what it takes. Let the mindless ignorants that voted for him go fight his wars.

:mad: :mad:

[milkyway]

112. Same with me. I have a brother-in-law in Central America. I'll take my

family there (assuming Canada is closed off) before I let them take my kids to go get killed for Halliburton.

[Flying Coyote]

107. Not so good

They're going to need another terrorist event to sell that one.

[milkyway]

113. You're right. We can see it coming already. Things are about to get a

whole lot nastier.

[midnight armadillo]

108. No way in hell they're drafting me!

Ok, at age 29 I'm out of the 'danger zone' of 18-25 (plus the draft as currently written would start with 20 year olds).

Still, if they alter the draft range or tap me for computer skills, no WAY am I going. I'll be on the next plane to France.

Of course, there is the possibility that with modern information technology they'll just add draftees to the no-fly list and send it to the BOrder Patrol for interception on the MExican & Canadian borders.

[LynnTheDem]

152. No you aren't; it's now 18-35.

And don't bother going to Canada; bush ensured that haven was closed to draft-dodgers back in 2001.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

118. ARE YOU VOLUNTEERING?

You sound like you support the War - so when are you reporting for duty?

[mitchum]

115. kick for lurking freepers who should be willing to have their heads...

blown off for the glory of the homeland

[SPDBoston]

119. Let's cut to the chase.

There is not going to be a draft. It's political suicide for the Republican Party. Starting one means they lose control of the House, Senate and White House.

If the US was attacked by another country, you would see the US pull out of Iraq and let the UN take over there and the troops would go where the attack came from.

I'm all for bashing Republicans but this isn't a political reality. Let's move on.

[Laelth]

128. I appreciate your grounded skepticism.

Honestly. It's easy to get emotional and carried away, especially when we fear for our childrens' lives. But right now, nothing is political suicide for the Republican party ... especially if it's true that they rigged this past election. They can just keep doing it. Besides which, it's even worse if they didn't rig it. Their draft-dodging imbecile just beat our intelligent and articulate decorated war hero. If Kerry can't Beat Bush, the democrats can't win ... at all.

No. I don't think anything is political suicide for the Republicans right now, and Bush isn't running for re-election himself, so why should he care. I have to agree with the majority, here.

The draft is probably immanent.

-Laelth

[Zero Gravitas]

134. The UN

Attacked by another country? The last time that happened was Pearl Harbor. Its not going to happen again any time soon.

No country is willing to send additional help to Iraq. We broke it, we own it. We can't keep the peace with the number of troops on the ground that we have and we can't spare many more. The numbers just don't add up. Whats Bush going to do? Admit failure? hardly.

[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

157. Okay, maybe I should have said "registered" instead of "lurking"

[EdTheGenYDem]

121. As i tell my peers

This is the only reason that i went through an accelerated bachelors (you know the 4yr degree in 3 years) curriculum right after 9-11 (had a gut feeling). After the reelection seemed complete, i enrolled in the remaining classes as fast as possible.

I'll graduate in February.

At least with a BS i hope they'll glaze over me...

(crossing fingers)

[yojon]

122. I am shocked, frankly shocked

that President Bush lied to us. "No volunteer army!....... no thats no draft!!"

[ngant17]

124. the rich get deferred, the poor are drafted

Yeah, I agree that our "Parasite-ocracy" (aka the Bush family)
out to be drafted but don't forget that the rich are not the ones who will be serving as cannon fodder in Iraq and whatever country they decide to target next. It will be from the middle and lower working classes. That's the way the system has worked before.

read my current commentary at this link:

<http://geocities.com/ngant17/comrade.htm>

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

136. Wow, you really need help

that's one sick fantasy life you've invented for yourself!

[Sugarbleus]

154. Dang, I always miss the deleted ones...must have been a doozy.n/t

[reddogbluedog]

135. there is not going to be a draft the american people will not alow it

[FighttheFuture]

138. I do not see what the American people will allow having much ...

bearing on what BushCo will do.

[Zero Gravitas]

139. You're kidding yourself.

You can't be for the war but against ensuring there enough troops to fight it. You're not a Flip-Flopper are you? You're not some sort of anti-American LIBERAL now are you? I didn't think so.

[liberal N proud]

140. Another FUCKING lie from the BUSH REGIME

When will the American people wake up?????
These fucking morons voted for this son of a bitch because they thought he would do something about abortion and give their church some money.
Well guess what, it will cost you your children!

I hope they are all happy now!!

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brainshrub]

147. Being in Iraq makes no one safer.

Not us, not the troops, not anyone.

Saddam had no WMDs. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq posed no security threat.

The only things basking right now are the bleached bones of American & Iraqi lives that have been wasted in in this futile war.

[mitchum]

158. Man, you're not even trying...

are you?

[wtmusic]

143. carry enlistment papers with you at all times

they have a marvelous sedative effect on prowar vein-poppers

[Gman]

146. Sounds plausible to me

but not a skills draft... it'll be a full blown, run your ass to Canada as fast as you can draft.

Maybe we can have a "General Discussion -- How to Dodge The Draft" forum where us old timers can pass on advice and techiniques we used in the 60's and early 70's such as doing a bunch of speed then running up and down several flights of stairs a bunch of times then going and taking your induction physical so your blood pressure is sky high and you get rejected for high blood pressure.

Of course, butt cysts work real well too.

[Raster]

148. Anyone who voted for * has a responsibility to go and figtht HIS war!

And if you can't go, you send your proxy, be it your son, daughter, grandson or granddaughter. You supported this bastard and his illegal, immoral, unGodly war, you fight it.

[slybacon9]

159. So be it...

Whatever. Who fucking cares at this point. I mean really kids, are we at all surprised by anything at this point? "He cheated in the election" "He cheated again" "He was behind 911" "They want to ban gay marriage"...

And so then it happens and then we are all idiots again, in shock. Are we all going to be terribly shocked when Roe V. Wade gets overturned? What about when we go into the next middle east country and start bombing...

For fucksake, c'mon already...

I'm glad there's going to be a draft. You know why? Because we get what we fucking deserve in this world. And we deserve him, this administration, and everything else that happens because we are letting it happen.

"I'd like to see him take my kid!"... Oh really? Um.... Weren't we just saying , "I'd like to see him steal my vote!" ??? Well guess what...

So yeah, its time to hit rock bottom. My advice: welcome it with open arms. Better yet, help it come faster and harder even...

Yeah its going to sting, but all change is a form of death and in the end we will better off for it. If we aren't, the rest of the world will be.

DRAFT EVERYONE NOW...

PS. Enough of this wamsy pamsy "draft the red states first" bullshit. You all are starting to sound as un-good human as you accuse the other side of being...
Leave it alone.
Stop Blaming Everyone else.
Start with yourself.
Get strong and be fucking accountable.

We can rise above this shit but we have to bring everyone with us. EVERYONE. Anyone gets left out and we will be here again in 30 more years.

We all get on these blogs and rant, or read other ranting... OR we get on here and look for our fix of articles that will verify and justify our anger. And then what? What are we doing offline?

You want to reeeeeeeeaaally know why we are "losing"
Here's a hint... What do you think Rightwing Media has been doing for years?
Who do you think we are starting to resemble? And is the goal becoming to get all the power. push the other team in the mud and laugh?

ANSWER: "we" are playing "their" game. "they" have finally succeeded in convincing "us" that there is a "they" and a "we". "they" tell "us" how "we" are, and how "we" should act.

WE used to mean everyone. It used to mean something positive. Something that included the whole world. United we stand. And liberals were the defenders of we. Now we are them.

WOO HOO... Bring on the fricking apocolypse!!!!

[restorefreedom]

150. fine. then I expect to see the darling * twins...

right on the front lines.

[loudsue]

153. The VERY first people to be drafted are those "D"'s who registered to vote

Count on it....they are going to go after the registered Democrats.

It's the way they do business! They'll do ANYTHING to get rid of any opposition.

If they do, I hope the newly drafted military take over the white house first!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[tarrant84]

155. i doubt it

Ok, listen... I'm an ex-marine, ok?

The standards to get into the military are very high: no surgery, no therapy, no medical injuries, low bodyfat, etc... about 50% of the population is ineligable to join for one reason or another. If you get in and have lots of problems, you're a HUGE medical liability. They have to pay for all of it.

Then, once you get there, basic training is pretty difficult. My platoon started out with 88 guys, we graduated 67 of them. By the end of boot, the WORST thing your DI could do was threaten to send you home. By the time you're done, you want to be there. During boot you can get sent home for refusing to comply, sucking, getting hurt, or just plain being a shit bag. We had a guy just plain run away-- he got sent home. It's not hard to go home.

Then, once you hit your unit, 50% of the guys who made it through boot actually finish out their tour. We had one dude go MIA because he missed his girlfriend. Pretty common story.

I have no IDEA, having been to boot and in the corps, how you could POSSIBLY get people who absolutely didn't want to serve do it. If you don't want to be in the military, the military probably doesn't want you in a foxhole next to someone whose devoted their life to being a professional soldier.

Something to consider... if they did have a draft, I say draft young republicans. But i HIGHLY doubt they will.

-J

[LynnTheDem]

156. Draft age limit; 18-35.

Selective Service Has Plans to Include Drafting Women and Increasing Eligibility Age to 35

Americans would then be required to regularly update the agency on their skills until they reach age 35.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/050304_women_draft.html

http://www.pressrepublican.com/Archive/2003/03_2003/032320033.htm

[Patriot Acts]

162. Let the Republitards "support this war"

I think we should write something up, an amendment or something. ALL registered Republitards and anyone and everyone that voted for Bush, and everyone that didn't vote for that matter.... THEY SHOULD BE CALLED UP FIRST!

Who's with me..... I think it would do some of these little Nazis some good. Teach them a lesson.... NEVER EVER EVER WAVE YOUR FLAG AND BLINDLY SUPPORT ANY LEADER. Empty jestures are anything but patriotic.... I would hate to see it happen, but I must admit, I would give a little chuckle when all the Republitards are sending their kids off to the war "they support" so whole heartedly.

I served in the U.S. Army and would gladly serve my country again... But this RICH MANS WAR is not for me!!!

[urkiddingme]

164. It looks as though she got the HR 163 Email scare

After reading through this article and rereading the HR 163 Email scare, it looks as though she got the email.

HR 163 you know the draft bill, the one Kerry shouted about, there is not going to be a draft so no need to jump up and down screaming hooting and hollering.

As much as I don't believe in the war, my brother enlisted in the Army, he is leaving for FT Jackson in South Carolina on the 29th. But the one thing he expressed to me, there are plenty of new enlistee, there were some 100 guys when he went to take his medical. This is just one city out of how many cities there are in the US. So I don't understand why people think there is going to be draft, it's just plain stupidity for anyone to think there is going to be a draft, you think any congressmen/women would want to risk political suicide in supporting a draft bill? I don't think so.

Thinking and Reasoning is the best thing and anyone could do.

[SaintAnne]

166. brother

I have a brother who is perfect "draft bait" I told him if he gets drafted to go to Canada, and then to England, I do not want him to die for Bushie boy's war. Let the Christian fundamentalists die for oil and lies. Not my liberal brother please!!!
saintAnne

[SammyWinstonJack]

168. Draft the "Value Voters" kids first!

Draft the idiots who voted for the chimp first! In fact, draft only those deluded idiots! That should provide enough cannon fodder to fight all of bush*co's wars. The Evil Monster won't get my sons! :mad: :grr:

[RBHam]

171. kick

:kick:

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FM Arouet666]

175. If you are in health care, you may be first.

A few links below

http://www.sss.gov/FactSheets/FSmedical.pdf

http://www.nisbco.org/HCPDSWWW.htm

This will, no doubt, be followed by a general draft for cannon fodder to supply wounded to the newly replenished medical corps.

Unless Chimp&Co. suddenly grow a brain and find a way out of Iraq, the U.S. will be entrenched there for a very long time. The insurgents are backed by sympathetic countries with money and weapons. Iraq is not Vietnam, it is the Soviet Afghanistan war, and we know how well they fared.

[papiamento]

176. Hmmm. Maybe. Doubt it, though.

Every congressperson who votes for it will be committing career suicide. Not a partisan thing. B*sh can't just institute it on executive order.

[MsMagnificent]

178. My prediction exactly

Reintroduction of the draft will be made in the name of the war on terrorism soon after an attack in the United States or abroad, he predicted.


The really interesting thing will be what --or who-- the object of this either LIHOP terrorism or Terrorism-by-Design (OUR, no, the WHITE HOUSE'S design)

Famous buildings, national monuments, etc. to be destroyed or will it be lots of innocent American people who will die to support this fallacious 'war'?

That will show you exactly those evil minds will work -- if they choose structures over a number of American lives.


Horrible things happening to our country!