One thing I'm happy about: Thomas Daschle is GONE

[malatesta1137]

The lamest, most cowardly, caving excuse for Democratic leader the party ever had. We need someone with real balls as leader, a Senate version of Nancy Pelosi. Edward Kennedy seems to me the only option at this time.

[genius]

1. I'll second that

Durbin and Byrd (who woke up after USA-PATRIOT) would also be good.

[BayStateBoy]

22. Agreed. But I'm Sorry We Lost a Senate Seat.

[LiberalForEver]

48. I feel exactly the same way!

[deutsey]

61. Same here

[demosincebirth]

25. He had to walk a fine line with his constituency other wise he would

have been gone a long time ago

[barb162]

66. agree, he had Very little to work with. He couldn't get too

strident

[alittlelark]

2. I AGREE He was a waste of oxygen

and a co-worker is best friends w/ his wife (very small world).


I AM GLAD HE IS GONE!!!! and I'm not ashamed to say it.

[JI7]

3. i'm not happy about that at all

we lost a senator from a solid red state who spoke out against the anti gay amendment to the constiuttion. and did a great job fighting the court appointments. he opposed bush on taxes also.

[freetobegay]

5. You have to remember the are those here who don't give

a rats ass about our equal rights!

[JI7]

30. isn't it amazing

the man came from a state where a large majority support anti gay laws and are anti choice. yet he stood up for what is right. he could have given in and probably won his seat easily but he didn't give in.

another group who is hurt by daschle's loss are the native americans who had an incredible advocate in tom daschle. and yet you see some express joy at his loss. and we all lose with Thune who will support every anti gay, anti women thing that comes up.

[malatesta1137]

6. oh really he did all that??

that's the freaking MINIMUM a Senator who calls himself a Democrat must do. He always did the very minimum, a weak, fake, Karl Rove-appointed opposition leader who deserved what he got, and then some.

[freetobegay]

10. I rest my case.

[sunnybrook]

23. do you see any mainstream press at all

They are playing Daschle's loss as "He is being punished for being an obstructionist and not working with Bush..." I am sorry I can't cite sources, but I have heard that argument laid out by the mainstream non-independent media over the last few days

[barb162]

68. me too, like he didn't play along, so now he's gone.

[PATRICK]

4. There's not much to choose from

Byrd used to be before he went on fire against the war. it has become a useless position for DLC types. There will be no safe seats left unless they stop HAVA as it exists now. The WH agenda is structured to ignore or roll over even the partisan trickery domination used to shut out and humiliate them.

Deer in the headlights after the fine speeches are over. Keystone cops for intellectuals. They massacred the Girondists. These guys aren't worth dulling the blade for all the power they wield.

Look good on C-Span though!

[Cleita]

7. Ya, know who you keep overlooking?

My senator, Barbara Boxer. Now there's a fighter and a Senator who didn't cave in and vote for many of the resolutions other of our Senators did. She voted against the IWR for one and she doesn't compromise on core liberal issues.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. She Represents One Of The Most Liberal States In The Union

Daschle represented one of the most conservative...

[Cleita]

24. Not true.

If you look at our state political map by counties, it's mostly red and conservative. The liberals are along the coast and in the two great urban areas of San Francisco and Los Angeles. Barbara has to appeal to all those rural people in Northern California, the Sierras, the Central Valley and those desert communities, which are all very conservative. Yet, she does it without compromising her liberal principles unlike our other Senator, Dianne Feinstein, who thinks and acts more like Daschle.

[barb162]

69. ditto

[Awsi Dooger]

8. Maybe we'll all be ecstatic when our senate numbers are in the 30s

Yeah, let's give up a seat in South Dakota. Thune is awesome. This is a seat we're unlikely to recapture for a decade or more. All they had was Thune. If we beat him again, Daschle's seat was probably safe for at least one more term beyond this one, assuming Thune would move to something else.

[malatesta1137]

12. I am not happy we lost the seat

I am happy Daschle is not the minority leader anymore, two different things.

[otohara]

9. Nancy Pelosi Stays and is Ready To Work w/ Bush

how comforting....Daschle worked with Bush and they came after him like a pack of pitt-bulls. So much for trying to work w/ the GOP. Go for it Nancy, you'll be next!

[Redleg]

11. Yeah, I'm so happy a rethuglican took his seat.

Did it ever occur to you that Daschle had to act the way he did in order to keep his seat in conservative S. Dakota?

[malatesta1137]

15. so

his egotistical desire to keep his seat was more important than facing with courage the most corrupt, fascist right-wing government we ever had? gimme a break!!!! I am GLAD he's gone.

[ShaneGR]

19. With one post you prove why we're in so much trouble....

You seem to think that if a candidate doesn't perfectly fit your EXACT ideology and doesn't say EXACTLY what you want, then it's ok to replace them with people who will FOR YEARS AND YEARS vote to support EXACTLY what you hate the most on a MASSIVE scale.

Boys, round em up in a circle and hand em some rifles.

[Redleg]

41. You are inferring "egotism." I don't accept that premise.

EOm

[ShaneGR]

13. What a fucking joke... just a DAMN JOKE!

This is the reason the liberal voice in this country is about to go unheard for the next 10-20 years. YOU ARE HAPPY THAT ANOTHER ANTI-CHOICE, ANTI-GAY, ANTI-ENVIRONMENT, PRO-WAR, PRO-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, ANTI-AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, PRO-DEATH PENALTY, TINY BANKRUPT GOVERNMENT POLITIICIAN HAS BEATEN TOM DASCHLE.

Just fantastic I say! Wonderful to have a closet-nazi in the Senate! Woohoo!

[malatesta1137]

18. I am sorry genius

but having Daschle or another right-wing nutbag in his place at this point in the game amounts to the same fucking thing. And I was referring to my happiness about his departure as minority leader, not that we lost the seat, but reading my post with care seems to be beyond you.

[ShaneGR]

21. See post 19

You just don't get it, I'm out.

[malatesta1137]

27. you're defending a weak, fake leader

plain and simple. We might've lost a Senate seat, but if that's the price to pay for realizing we need a REAL courageous leader, so be it.

A real, courageous leader whose only concern is not getting reelected in his evangelical nutbag state of South Dakota.

[Redleg]

42. You are an insulting piece of work, aren't you? Thanks for writing off

South Dakota as a "nutbag" state. Go somewhere else and play your flamebait bullshit.

[malatesta1137]

45. do you have a nicer word

for people who are bigoted, greedy and ignorant? Let me hear it.

[Redleg]

49. Why do you stereotype ALL South Dakotans that way?

Stereotyping is a repuglican thing to do.

[malatesta1137]

52. not all

but the majority certainly qualifies.

[liberalmuse]

14. Not happy.

That's one less Democrat in the Senate. I didn't agree with every thing he did, but what we have now is a helluva lot worse--a bunch of fucking bigots. First it'll be gay rights. Next it'll be women's rights. Then they'll find a way to screw minorities. No thanks.

[Malikshah]

16. Here here!

It should be painfully clear that the ldrship in the Democratic party is woefully unprepared to handle the changed conditions in the US

They depend on grassroots organizations to get things done (a la Clark campaign) and then step in and screw things up--in the end, having the temerity to ask for money from those that they shove off to the corner.

[autorank]

20. Lets relax on eating our own, no matter what the flavor.

Daschle didn't make himself leader. He was chosen by the other Senators who found his style highly acceptable. The choice to roll over for * after 9/11 was a crucial error but one committed by the majority of senate Democrats. Remember how many of them voted for the * tax cut, thank you very f'ing much Diane Feinstein, you loser. Nevertheless, I don't want her gone either.

Corporate America controls the media and we get manufactured news.
Corporate America now controls the voting machines and we get manufactured elections.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

[fujiyama]

26. WooHoo! Yeah

The senate is lopsided against us! Awesome! Damn, I hope we lose all senate seats we have in red states.

Look, Daschle wasn't a good minority leader. I never thought he was good for the post, but he had a decent record. Instead we lost a senate seat as well.

[Rowdyboy]

28. Hope you and Senator John "Fuck 'em" Thune are very happy together

You deserve each other!

[leesa]

29. As leader, yes, I agree. We sure needed the seat though.

[Cocoa]

31. you and Rush Limbaugh both

:toast:

[CBHagman]

32. Knock off the circular firing squad, guys.

I'm only going to say this once: If you allow yourself to have an orgy of Schadenfreude over the defeat of a fellow Democrat, you are making a Cheneying Nader of yourself. The 'cans want us to fight, they want us to be divided, and they want us to be ineffective.

They'd been gunning for Daschle for 12 years, at least. Don't rejoice in this. Don't rejoice in your own screwing-over.

[DisgustedTX]

33. Losing the seat is bad; we need a SOLID BLUE minority leader. Reasons?

1) Likely to represent the ENTIRE party from EVERY state
2) Likely to look for and accept a few conciliatory positions
3) Likely to fight for issues that matter most to the party
4) The biggest:

NO FEAR OF NOT BEING RE-ELECTED.

It doesn't matter how polarizing the Minority Leader is - they're SUPPOSED to be polarizing. Ted Kennedy made a valiant effort in vain for the now known "EVERY" Child left Behind Act which isn't being properly funded.

We need a Kennedy; Schumer; Boxer or other from a solid blue constituency who will work for his/her party without pandering. I'll never be a Daschle fan. His conduct disgusted me, but his Senate seat will be missed.

[Pepperbelly]

34. You are off-base and WRONG about so much in your post ...

First, cheering the addition of Thune to the Senate is a chump-move and if you are happy about that, then your credentials as a rational person are very much in question. I do not know where you live but for me, as an American citizen, I mourn Daschle's political passing.

Some people here tend to think that if politicians do not mimic their every whim, then the politician is worthless and that is, IMO, maloderous, perverse, childish, anti-Democratic and anti-democratic. Not every one is going to agree with what you want done. Some people are going to disagree with everything you want, some will disagree with most, some with equal parts, and some will disagree very little. To cast away allies who do not march in lock-step is self-defeating and guarantess that you will get NOTHING that you want. So you're an all-or-nothing kind of guy? Well, then you get nothing because NO ONE gets everything.

For the most part, from reading the complaints of those who post here, their disagreement with Daschle was often more a mattedr of mannerism and word choice rather than something substantive. And that is a profoundly deep shallowness (:D). Daschle, God bless him, accomplished as much as could possibly be expected with a minority. While a lot of things occurred which all reasonable people SHOULD disagree, a lot more extremely egregious things were blocked. The Democrats won outright the battle over ANWR, the battle over the more fascist appelate court justices as well as other more minor victories. What the fuck do you expect with a minority of votes in the chamber?

Finally, the role of minority leader is not one that answers to the Democratic rank-and-file or the activists. The role is FOR the convenience and good discipline of Senate Democrats. The role is about LEGISLATIVE strategy, not public relations strategy. It is about putting together votes in the Senate, not pleasing the emotional needs of internet political students and activists. And in that role, Daschle performed magnificently. I realize that this runs counter to conventional wisdom at DU but so what. The conventional wisdom is wrong and so are you.

Flame on if you wish but I really don't give a shit.

[ploppy]

35. Thank you!

n/t

[cmd]

36. I'll second that n/t

[DisgustedTX]

37. The Minority Leader does NOT run in contrast to the party

Using that mindset, we may as well nominate Liebermann.

We owe more as a party to the likes of Byrd and others who vehemently oppose the most egregious legislation and filibuster at every opporunity to block the most appaling attempts at truly frightening legislation.

ANWR? Yeah, OK. Tough fight there. Almost 70% of the general population, Democratic AND Conservative, are against drilling in ANWR.

Yes, it is about Legislative strategy; which is not about shouting "Sieg Heil BUSH!" when you feel your own seat may be in danger. It is here where I feel Daschle failed miserably.

[Pepperbelly]

38. you are entitled but still wrong ....

It isn't about personalities (i.e. Byrd vs Lieberman vs. Daschle vs. Ted Kennedy.) It is about legislative competence and attending to the Senate mechanics. Whoever is the very best at that SHOULD be who the Democrats elect and remember, Daschle was ALWAYS chosen overwhelmingly by his Senate collegues which included all of those who have been "nominated" by DU denizens.

I have no idea which of those left is the most skilled at what is needed but I do know that Daschle was the one the rest believed was the most skilled before his defeat.

[malatesta1137]

53. Daschle accomplished as much as possible???

like what? losing the Senate that was given to Democrats on a silver platter? When Senator Jeffords became an independent, we had a golden opportunity to hold on to the only branch of government we controlled. Instead, Daschle's ineffectiveness and cowardliness helped us lose that too.

His Pink Tutu philosophy of surrender and wimpy compromise only gave Bush more power.

I am sorry we lost the seat (we lost 3 others by the way), but JUBILANT this loser is out. We need a courageous leader from a blue state who's not afraid to offend and whose only purpose in NOT to please his/her particular evangelical nutbag base so he/she can keep getting reelected.

[sangh0]

55. The Minority Leader can't get anyone elected

That's why the FIRST word of the title is MINORITY

[malatesta1137]

62. he might not be able to get anyone elected

but his weakness can certainly be damaging and uninspiring, causing Democrats to lose hope and stay home election day. Not to mention make Bush get away with murder.

[Pepperbelly]

57. and how many congressmen or senators have YOU put in office?

Holy shit, what kind of crap is that?

Finger pointing and na-na-na-na-do-do. If you intend to continue this discussion, perhaps it would serve better if you would actually ... I don't know ... RESPOND to what I wrote rather than pulling a phrase here or there like George fucking Bush.

What evidence do you have that Daschle was anything other than effective in carrying out the DUTIES of his job? Not what you THINK his job might be what whh it actually was.

You made the case against Daschle depending on catcalls from the peanut gallery to do your heavy lifting but that does not work for any serious-minded person. So cite you evidence and argumentation, if you have any of specifically what Dashcle failed in. And no, not a list of links. His job was legislative strategy and martialing the Democrats' strength in the Senate to accomplish whawt he party wants. On what did he fail?

[malatesta1137]

65. if you think Daschle was an effective leader

there's nothing to discuss here. A leader is supposed to stand up to the opposition and, in that, he failed MISERABLY.

He's thankfully gone, so defending him is pointless.

[Pepperbelly]

70. I just get very tired of hot air and misunderstanding the facts.

You STILL have not come to grips with what a legislative leader even does. And until you do, criticism is quite off-target and thoroughly beside the point.

[UpsideDownFlag]

39. yeah, isn't it awesome having one more republican in the senate?

geez.

[malatesta1137]

54. if that's the price we have to pay

to rid ourselves of a Reepublican-lite, Bush ass-kissing 'leader', THAT'S THE PRICE WE HAVE TO PAY!!

[sangh0]

56. And what's the price

of one less repuke?

I'd rather pay THAT bill.

[malatesta1137]

67. effective leadership!

I'm sure you'd rather pay that bill.

[UpsideDownFlag]

71. i think this is something we can agree on, Sangho.

I hate the DLC, but i'd sure as god rather have one of them in there than an actual repub.

[AmerDem]

40. I wouldn't say i'm happy but

I agree he was weak and lacked any real leadership ability. Sad fact is we lost a Senate seat over it and now his replacement ( Reid ) is just as weak and in a heavily repuke area.

At this point I really haven't got much faith in our party leaders. We aren't going to rebound being led by the likes of Pelosi and Reid.

[Ima]

43. WTF

If you are so phreaking glad he's gone, you may want to join the celebration, of like thinking individuals, at Freeperville.:party:

[UpsideDownFlag]

74. you know who else is happy? republicans. they've hated him for years.

nt

[Toucano]

44. You're full of something stinky. n/t

[sleipnir]

46. But we replaced him with Daschle version 2.0

Reid isn't much of an improvement if you ask me.

I strongly believe we'll see four more years of rolling over, pink tutus and wonderful Rose Garden photo ops from our new leader.

[Cat Atomic]

47. Don't be too happy. He's only being replaced with another wimp.

[donheld]

50. I'm sorry too we lost the seat

but i'm not sorry he's no longer with us. He always seemed extremely weak.

[JohnKleeb]

51. No because we needed all the senate seats we could get

I think few people will agree that Daschle was a great leader, I am of the opinion that Dash shouldnt have been our party leader in the senate not because he's a bad guy but because he represents a bright red state.

[malatesta1137]

58. we can get many more seats in 2006

IF IF we choose a leader who's not a coward like Daschle.

When I saw him on Meet The Press a few weeks ago, his opponent was totally destroying him and all Daschle could respond was basically 'well, I am sorry you feel that way' which is his typical wimpy, cowardly response. So many things he could've pointed out, like Bush's lies which led us to war, etc etc. He remained silent and sheepish.

Glad this Rove's dream leader is GONE!!!!!!!

[JohnKleeb]

63. any seat is a seat

He should have never been our party leader but I do not celebrate losing seats.

[Pepperbelly]

64. You seem fond of great claims but what do you base it on?

It is certainly nothing empirical. Have you even looked at what seats are up for re-elect in 06 or 08? What makes you think that behaving boorishly and petulently will somehow gain converts?

Which ones?

Can they actually vote?

[UpsideDownFlag]

72. "we cant win anything until we get rid of the machines" --Mike Malloy

nt

[hyphenate]

59. Losing a Senate seat was not good

And I understand that the Repuke is not a good moderate (from what I've read, not from personal knowledge), but I can understand your point of view. Daschle caved WAY too many times, and never was able to truly push his weight around as he should have done. I give Nancy Pelosi in the House more points for gumption than I could ever give to Daschle. Unfortunately, it's going to take a long while before we get that state back, and who knows what's going to happen with the new guy.

[AlinPA]

60. I would rather have the seat and fight it out for a new leader.

[UpsideDownFlag]

73. this is total flamebait. and it gets old.

I'll see if the mods agree with me, but i'm tired of eating our own. Loathing the DLC is one thing, but rejoicing in a democratic loss is something else entirely.

[Cuban_Liberal]

75. Durbin would make the best leader, but I'm sorry to lose Daschle's seat.

I would like to have kept his seat for our party.

:(

[lateo]

76. I couldn't agree more.

It is too bad that Gephardt didn't meet a similar fate.

[Moderator]

77. I'm locking this thread

reason:

Flame-Bait