Kindergarten teacher told my 5-year-old that "Kerry kills babies" today

[southlandshari]

My daughter came home today and told me the following little story about her day at kindergarten....

Because I have taken my daughter to vote with me in every election I've voted in since she was born, she has developed a healthy interest in current events and elections. We try not to expose her to too much (though we are so passionate, it is difficult!) and to frame family discussions around politics in age appropriate terms.

So it is no surprise that she asked one of her afterschool teachers today who the teacher voted for. The conversation went something like this:


Daughter: Miss XXXXX, who did you vote for?

Teacher: Bush. Who did you vote for?

Daughter: I voted for John Kerry.

Teacher: Why did you do that?

Daughter: Because Bush sends people to war, and I have a cousin that has to go back to Iraq soon, and I don't want him to die.

Teacher: Well, Kerry kills babies. Did you know that?


My daughter said she didn't know what to say to her teacher after that and so said nothing at all. I could see the exchange bothered and confused her. She said her teacher seemed angry, and that she didn't mean to say anything wrong. I assured her she did not say anything wrong, that Kerry most certainly did not "kill babies" and that her teacher had made a mistake.

We have worked so hard to teach our child to be tolerant of all views, and that good people can disagree and still be friends. WTF is this "teacher" thinking?

I know many of you won't be surprised at this story, since I live in Alabama. But the public schools in my community are absolutely first rate, and local residents consistently vote to maintain or raise local taxes to insure the quality of education here remains high. So I have never been concerned about this kind of thing happening to my child as it does so often in other places.

Parents - what would you do? Advice is appreciated!

[Ducks In A Row]

1. call the teacher, tell her the election is over and she can stop fucking

around with the truth.

Oh and tell her, bush** will be sending her to iraq real soon

[kikiek]

2. That comment is so inappropriate that it is beyond belief. To a 5 yo?

I would skip the school and go right to the districts supervisor.

[blm]

3. Hit that teacher with a LAWSUIT. TOMORROW.

A BIG LAWSUIT. This HAS to stop.

It would have impact all over the country.

[freetobegay]

6. Fuck the lawsuit!

Hit the damn teacher!

[reprobate]

59. First, see a lawyer, file the siut, and have the lawyer ......

have the lawyer call a press conference to announce the suit, which is public information, so the name of the teacher can be given.

Talk about revenge? The teacher will be ruined. First, the school board will not back the teacher meaning any defence will have to be payed by the teacher personally. Second, this could not be claimed to be within the duties of teaching, so any professional liability insurance the teacher may have would definately NOT pay for his/her defense.

You have it in your power to ruin the teacher financially and make an example for all others. If you wish to.

[freetobegay]

4. I am all in favor of public floggings for public teachers

That act like this!

[Newsjock]

5. Depends on how much stink you want to make

If you just want resolution: Call the principal.

If you want to see the teacher fry: Call a local TV station.

[Kire]

34. Yes, call the TV station.

[thoughtanarchist]

7. bring your daughter to the principal or superintendant...

and have her repeat that story.

Demand accountability. You have a right to have your daughter in grade school without being traumatized by RW zealots!

...sounds like the crap they try to push in catholic school...

[havocmom]

17. good advice, but bring a witness or two with you

when you go talk to ANYBODY about this or it can become a he said/she said thing and freepers seem to love that as they get away with bullying without consequences

[Career Prole]

26. I spent the 60's in a catholic school. It wasn't in vogue then.

They just didn't want to be able to see the girls' knees.

[jean]

50. the Radical Right, the Radical Right, the Radical Right - let's get this

one into common useage.

[oregonjen]

8. Abortion is not an appropriate conversation for 5 year olds!

I would definately talk to the teacher and let her know her response was not okay. Then, I would let the principal of the school know the whole story.

That teacher's response was sick and uncalled for. My son is in Kindergarten too and I would have blown a gasket if she had said something like that to him!

[havocmom]

9. A visit to the school for a chat with the administration is in order

Bring a witness along, stay calm but insist the teacher's action be addressed.

After that, depending on how things go, either thank the administration of the school for putting the teacher on a short leash or get a lawyer and go to the school board.

[theorist]

10. A letter to the teacher CC'ed to the school's administration.

Make sure you're calm when you write it. It was totally inappropriate for her to make such a comment. You wouldn't do something like that in your own home, and her supervisors should be shocked to hear what you have to say.

[gardenista]

44. Yes, be sure to get it down on paper, and into the records nt

[eternalburn]

11. Bring it to the attention of the school admin (nt)

[RevCheesehead]

12. Call the Principal TOMORROW!

Follow up with letter of complaint.

Speak directly to the teacher and tell her you are very disturbed that she would say something like that to a 5-year-old. Be sure to tell her how upset your daughter was. This woman put her personal opinion above her responsibility to care for your daughter.

[blm]

30. Well said and EXACTLY why that teacher should be SUED!

,

[fudge stripe cookays]

13. I'd be setting up a parent teacher conference

with that teacher toute d'suite, and telling her to leave her "morality" at the door when discussing anything with your child. You are attempting to instill a set of values in her, and you do not want her infected with others' hate and hypocrisy.

Otherwise tell her you will go to the school board and get her ass fired. If that doesn't work, call the ACLU.

That is NOT an appropriate response to a 5 year old.
FSC

[Career Prole]

14. File a complaint...or punch Miss XXXXX square in the snot locker.

I'm torn between the two right now.
Better go with the complaint to the principal, and if you don't get satisfaction take it up the line.
That is some sick s**t to be telling a child of that age. :grr:

[The empressof all]

15. You must contact the school board and the media immediately

In this case I would not speak with the teacher but go directly above his/her head. They don't deserve fair warning and an apology from them would at best be half hearted and motivated by fear of losing their job.

I know you live in Alabama and will probably be pooh- poohed for being an over-reacting female liberal but you must do this. Contact the ACLU. Contact an attorney. This is so totally inappropriate in any context that you need to address this.

[regnaD kciN]

63. Go to the media...

Odds are that the school board down there are a bunch of fundies, who will claim that your child started it (!) by criticising The President, and that the fault lies with you (!) for being such a poor parent that you don't teach your child the difference between Right and Wrong. :eyes:

Although, in Alabama, your local media may be run by Bush-worshippers as well -- at least there's a chance that they might think a story about a good juicy fight will be worth exposing people to one of us Traitors To The Country. Of course, you might want to consider laying low for a couple of days after the story comes out. And making sure your homeowner's insurance covers the repair of broken windows caused by thrown rocks. :-(

If all else fails, have you considered homeschooling? Although it's widely considered something only fundies do, a friend of mine homeschooled all four of her children...because she was living in Oklahoma, and didn't want her kids exposed to the same sort of Talibornagain indoctrination you are now experiencing.

:grr:

[dirtyduck]

16. i started a thread about this earlier

it seems it is rampant among elementary school kids right now. I would go to the principal and then to the School Board. It is beyond inappropriate.

[dave502d]

18. LAWSUIT and get her job.

[Fovea]

24. I agree.

Hurt them.

[cally]

19. I would call the teacher and tell her that

she should have answered your daughter's question with something like "I think you and I disagree. That's what makes our country great." Then ask her to explain, in detail, how you as a parent should explain this teacher's opinion when it is so against the parents ideas. Parents and teachers need to support each other and not work to undermine each other. Send the letter to Supervisor and ask for new written policies to prevent this in the future. Yes, I would do this.

[RoyGBiv]

20. Demand and Apology

And I do mean DEMAND. Call the principal tomorrow, inform him or her of the exchange, let the person know you are angry (not upset, but ANGRY .. use that precise word), and demand that the teacher apologize to your daughter and you in a private meeting with official witnesses.

Your daughter asked the original question, so it was fine for the teacher to answer, simply. I am confused, however, why the teacher asked who your daughter voted for since she's FIVE, but nonetheless, that might even be excusable. However, asking her why and then intentionally trying to make her feel bad after she has just expressed a fear that a loved one may die is inexcusable. She is entitled to whatever opinions she has. She is not entitled to frighten and ridicule her students with such tripe.

I am serious about this. These people will not be stopped unless they are faced down with real, hard-boiled anger. That is not a person who should be in charge of children, and you must let the administration know you will not accept it, not in any way shape or form.

[southlandshari]

32. I also wondered why she asked about my daughter's "vote"

But I'm guessing that question must have been preceded by something like "did you go with your mommy or daddy to vote?" or my daughter may have volunteered that she went to "vote" on election day. When she goes with me, she thinks of my vote as hers as well, and it is common for her to say "I voted for so-and-so".

[Kire]

35. I remember asking a teacher who he voted for when I was a kid...

...he politely told me it was none of my business, which was the right thing to do. No?

[southlandshari]

38. That certainly would have been preferable to this! n/t

[RoyGBiv]

48. I can see that ...

Whatever the case, the teacher's response was in no way acceptable, not even a little bit. As a child care provider, one does NOT start arguments with children, not if you have a single lick of sense in your head. Even in cases in which a child is misbehaving, you do not argue nor denegrate the child. That is wrong and should result in punitive action.

I empathize strongly with you. It was nothing like this -- my daughter is almost 15 and speaks her mind freely, thus inviting responses of some sort -- but one of my daughter's teachers tried, briefly, to make her think her opinions were wrong to have. Simply having a parent, i.e. me, show up to have a little chat was enough to make him back off, and sometimes that is all it takes. But, the important point is that you do something.

I work in customer service, and the simple rule is that those who complain when things go wrong are the only ones truly served. If your computer breaks down while under warranty and you don't make a claim, it won't be fixed. However, if you place a call, always remaining rational and calm while at the same time leaving no doubt of your displeasure, you will get that computer fixed or replaced. The circumstances vary in different situations. The rules for dealing with them are fairly universal.

Another respondent mentioned getting something in writing. Yes, DO THAT. The apology I mentioned, in and of itself, is not the point. The point, and the reason I mentioned witnesses, is to make certain she is forced to officially admit an error in such a way that peers, employers, and future employers will be able to recognize that it took place. The point of your daughter being witness to it is so that she knows that rules must be followed by everyone, teachers and students alike, authority should be respected, but blindly allowing onesself to be abused is not acceptable.

Sorry for the rant. This kind of thing burns at my soul. Mental abuse, which is what this is, IS child abuse.

[Kire]

33. if an apology is what you want...

...get it in writing.

[malletgirl02]

21. I feel really bad for you daughter

I'm so sorry, I hope your daughter is ok. Your daughter's teacher is really messed up. There is no excuse for what that teacher said to your daughter. I'm not a parent, but you should really speak to your daughters principal and demand action, be adamant, and don't back off.

[Ducks In A Row]

22. remember to tape any conversation you have

these people are not to be trusted

[CornField]

23. I'd phone both the principal and the superintendent for a meeting

Both of them and I'd make a *huge* stink -- HUGE!

First, set up a video recorder and sit your daughter on the sofa. Ask her to tell you the story again -- with the camera taping it. Then I would take the tape into a meeting with the teacher, the principal and the superintendent. I'd play it and ask them point blank when the teacher was going to be fired.

If they refused, I'd then tell them that I'd see them at the next school board meeting -- where I'd play the tape for the entire school board, the audience and the press in attendance. Once again I'd demand the teacher's head on a platter.

From there, I'd take it to the regional level and then even to the state level if necessary.

I'm sorry but there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR A TEACHER TO SPEAK TO ANY CHILD IN THAT MANNER! I'm furious on your behalf.

[koopie57]

25. Do you know parent's of any other

students in the class? I would call them up and see if they had heard a similar story. And your daughter is confused enough. Maybe leave her out of it until you see how the information is reacted too.

on edit ... I think with this goofy president and the new morality mandate the nuts seem to feel they have won, I wonder if this might become more and more prevalent in our public schools. Maybe it is something we need to work on with our congressmen also. This might just be the tip of the iceburg.

[southlandshari]

36. I asked her who was with her when this happened

And she said no other teacher heard what Miss XXXX said, but named three other students who were sitting with her when it happened. I sort of know the parents of one of the children who was there. I think they are also Kerry supporters, because my daughter had previously come home and said this child was "voting" for Kerry just like she was.

I thought I might first call these folks and see what, if anything, their son came home and said to them today. I don't plan to stop there, but it would be nice not to have to go this alone.

[alphafemale]

27. That crazy woman should lose her job! What a hateful nutcase!

She shouldn't be a teacher at ALL! Let alone be around such helpless, impressional tiny ones.

UNBELIEVABLE!

:grr:

[Sabriel]

28. Get your daughter the *uck out of her classroom

And I agree with the other posters: take witnesses, and put your complaint in writing. More importantly, find out what your district's procedure is for handling complaints, then follow it to the letter. I'm saying this as a teacher: hit them where it hurts, in the PR.

[demodonkey]

29. Get your kid the hell out of that school!

Your daughter deserves a better "education" than that so-called "teacher" is providing. Your school is "third world" (banana republic style) and not first rate, if they have people saying things like that to kindergarteners!

#1) Talk to the principal. Make it perfectly clear you considered the remark inappropriate. The teacher can and should be reprimanded. A remark like that could terrify a five year-old.

#2) Bring it up to your School Board (they may be freeper-types, but you'll at least get in the records and maybe some press).

#3) Find someplace else for your daughter to go if you can.

#4) Home school if you must and can; the freepers are doing it, and I'm afraid raising an army of little freeper nazis.

Shouldn't our side do all we can that our kids grow up seeking and speaking the TRUTH????

God that upsets me -- come from a family of teachers who always valued free thinking and finding the truth and teaching kids to do same!! :grr:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[southlandshari]

46. You are waaaayyyyy out of line.

On edit: Thanks mods!

[gardenista]

47. What? Did you intend to write that? nt

[jessicazi]

37. Keep us updated on what you decide to do

and what happens.

best of luck.

[cindyw]

39. I have a Kindergartener. She must be fired tomorrow. NO questions asked

You go to the school board and tell them that a it is child abuse to talk to a 5 year old about abortion. I see no difference than a teacher telling a child about his erection. It is child abuse.

At the very least she should be on suspension and your child should be changed to another class. What kind of judgement does this person have to think that that is an appropriate topic for a 5 year old. What's next?

[gardenista]

40. It's amazing how they attack those who can't defend themselves.

How shameful.

[goclark]

41. I would do this...

Contact the ACLU and find out what they would suggest.

Your daughter sounds adorable and so mature. As much as I want to blow the roof off of the school, we would not want your precious child to suffer.

[southlandshari]

56. She is both - and then some!

Precocious, independent and hard-headed!! I know where she gets the last trait from, anyway!

My husband is from the Middle East, and so our five-year-old has been exposed to a lot more travel, multi-culturalism, exploration of religion and definitely global politics than most kids her age.

She was riding in the car with my parents recently when something came on NPR about Condoleeza Rice, and my mom said she sat straight up and said, quite proudly, "Condoleeza Rice is a LIAR!"

You see what I mean when I say we don't always succeed in tempering our discussions in her presence. And at this age, they forget NOTHING!

[baldguy]

42. Here's a fine selection of images of Bush's victims.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=dead+iraqi

[Skittles]

43. you need to report this to the school board

this woman has NO BUSINESS TEACHING FIVE-YEAR OLDS

[Catherine Vincent]

45. I would definitely be at the school the next day and have a

conference with that teacher and the Principal. That was uncalled for! She should apologize to your child ASAP!

[HoosierClarkie]

49. Don't give her a heads up and call your local news!

"Teacher tells 5 year old that Kerry is a baby killer"
Then sue her ass!

[hatrack]

51. Get her ass in front of the school board, and get her fired

Under the circumstances, it will not be difficult.

[southlandshari]

52. Thanks to everyone for your replies and feedback

I'm going to sleep on this tonight, but my preliminary plan at this point is to:

a) get in touch with the parents of one of the children who was with my daughter when this was said and see if they heard a similar report

b) along with those parents, or alone if necessary, go to the school tomorrow afternoon and speak first with the principal, and then request a three-way meeting that includes the "teacher" herself (who is probably nothing but a recent college grad who hasn't found a real teaching job yet so she's working at the afterschool program at the public kindergarten - common in our small college town)

c) confront the teacher in the principal's presence and ask for an explanation and apology

I would also like to get my daughter's regular teacher (the one she is with from 7:45 am to 2:15 pm) involved in this. I think she will be quite sympathetic to my position.

I can see some value to having my daughter repeat this story to the principal and/or other administrators. On the other hand, I do worry about making her further confused or worse, intimidated by all the meetings with all the grownups and therefore a little more cautious about speaking up on this kind of thing in the future.

If I am not fully satisfied with the outcomes of these actions (I've got to decide between now and tomorrow morning what it is I really WANT from them), I will not hesitate to go on up the ladder. Regardless, I plan to write a follow up letter after the meetings tomorrow to be put in this woman's file, if she is still employed next week.

[yardwork]

53. Call the school principal and then go in and personally file a complaint

Put the complaint in writing. Telling a five year old that somebody "kills babies" is developmentally inappropriate, and therefore unprofessional on the part of the after-school teacher. She has violated a fundamental job requirement. This is a major issue and I encourage you to make a big deal out of it.

[smbolisnch]

54. I am not a parent

but this is just totally unacceptable. I would call the principle of the school and demand a meeting with him/her and the teacher IMMEDIATELY and let them know that you will be filing a formal complaint and if appropriate action is not taken againsty this "teacher" that you will contact the media and any other parties that you feel should be let in on what is going on in your school system. That is total bullshit. Good luck with this....

[Andromeda]

55. Seriously???

I would move out of Alabama. If thats not possible for you then I would go to the principal, the school board or school superintendent and bellow like a pregnant cow.

Don't let this freak of a teacher get away with this. Get your child out of that class immediately and if necessary take her out of the school.

Go see a lawyer and see what other options you have but keep up the pressure and DON'T back down.

[TexasChick]

57. Find some pictures of dead pregnant Iraqi women and pictures of dead

Iraqi children on the Internet and print them out. Go to the school and show that twit the pictures and say to her "What about these babies? What did they do?" I am so sick and tired of the hypocrisy of Kerry being a baby killer if the baby is only here in America! Geez!!!!

[seraph]

58. I would sue - get a lawyer or call the ACLU. (nt)

[morillon]

60. That teacher is bonkers.

Politics aside, you just don't say stuff like that to kids. It'd be the same thing if your child had said that she voted for Bush and the teacher said, "Do you know that Bush has killed thousands and thousands of little boys and girls in Iraq? Do you know that Bush's soldiers tortured people and some of the people died?"

My mom and my husband have both worked as teachers, and having heard all their stories, I'm sometimes biased in favor of teachers. That being said, this woman needs to have her butt fired. She has shown a complete lack of judgment, and heaven only knows what else she's saying to the impressionable kids in her care. The principal needs to be told first, so that the teacher doesn't have a chance to spin this. And if the principal refuses to act, I'd call my school board member.

Good luck. I'm sorry your little girl was exposed to such a nut like this woman.

[Guaranteed]

61. Yup, that's grounds for being fired. nt

[cheezus]

62. call every member of the SCHOOL board

I'd also be tempted to mail her some pictures of the babies that Bush has killed around the world. That blood is on HER hands too

[sugarcookie]

64. Didn't vetwife go through a similar situation?

Wish I had bookmarked that thread.

[Sugarbleus]

67. Hi Southland...geez that is abominable!

I've been worried about the trend in schools lately..I'm in a so-called liberal area too. I've noticed a hard edge by teachers and an unusual amount of conservatives running or teaching in our schools.

I'm about to get off the computer but I just wanted to add a little incident that happened at my teenage grandson's school this week.

He has a confessed Conservative Gov. teacher (who LOVED talking nonsense about Alan Keyes being so wonderful and conservative politics in general in class). This man, for whatever reason, went up to a close teenage friend of my grandson's and, because the boy wore those loose pants, YANKED HIS PANTS DOWN TO THE FLOOR where his bare bottom was exposed in front of the entire class.!! Some "Classy" dude eh?

All this "teacher" got, rightly or wrongly...was a two day suspension from work. The man is in his 60's!!

Go figure! Catcha later :hug:

[Chomskyite]

65. Call both the teacher and the superintendent

That would be the right thing to do. This teacher is abusing her privilege and doing it in the most cowardly fashion. She should fear for her job.

[sugarcookie]

66. Check this out...

"Teacher's politics disturbs students

First-graders were told Kerry 'kills babies'
By STEVE URBON, Standard-Times senior correspondent

FAIRHAVEN -- A Rogers School music teacher sent first-graders home on Election Day to warn their parents against voting for pro-choice presidential candidate John Kerry because he "kills babies," according to a School Committee member. "

more here:

http://www.s-t.com/daily/11-04/11-05-04/a01lo839.htm

[seabeyond]

68. this is the first day kids are going to school

after election. the minister during chapel, prior to election told the whole school kerry is a murderer. yes.

and this is the christianity they want me to embrace

i have kept kids out because i dont trust, i dont trust these christians, that my children wouldnt be hurt. that is indicitive of their version of christianity

[southlandshari]

69. SHORT UPDATE

This morning I spoke to the father of one of the other children who was present when this comment was made, and he said that his child came home with the same story. So I am not in this alone. We are both contacting the principal of the school today.

I'll let everyone know how this goes -- thanks again for your support!

[sugarcookie]

70. you should get with vetwife

if you can or at least try to locate the thread to see the steps she took to get results. IIRC...she was succesful with getting the teacher fired I am so pissed about this issue because my grandson's class held mock elections and he voted for Bush. We pressed him on how he came to that descision. His answer...Kerry is gonna rasie everybody's taxes! He is only 11 years old who the hell is teaching them this garbage.