Who is nuttier the LaRouchers or the Naderities?

[bluestateguy]

Poll question: Who is nuttier the LaRouchers or the Naderities?

[NoPasaran]

1. Naderites are merely self-righteous morons

But Larouchies are batshit crazy!

[trumad]

2. I would think that you're batshit crazy

if you enable Bush.

[JackDragna]

3. Yep. Enabling Bush.

I'll be waiting with fated breath for your attack on the International World Worker's Party, because, after all, if all their members had voted for Gore in Florida, it would have been enough to turn the election. What's that? Nader is a much easier target and excuse for Gore's horrid campaigning and wooden style? Oh, of course. My bad.

Get over Nader, people.

[Zhade]

8. "Get over Nader, people."

Now, why would you expect people to do that? Scapegoating is so much easier (and cowardly) than facing a coup d'etat.

[trumad]

13. Oh I'm over idiot Nader

and I think he'll be a minor annoyance in this election..BUT! All always gleefully bash the Mother Fucker because he deserves it. Keep defending the crazy coot all you want. You are in a HUGE minority.

[Zhade]

52. Who said I was defending him?

I don't particularly care for him. I just care less for the scapegoating-to-avoid-the-real-issue situation with some Democrats.

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. Well-said!

[trumad]

10. first off, what the fuck is fated breath?

and secondly, you're not one of those poor Moran's that bit off on what the media told you about Al in 2000 are you? You sure sound like it!

[AlFrankenFan]

12. What about former Naderites? n/t

[kokomo]

4. Nader has done more harm to the Democratic Party

Ralph on Lou Dobb's coming up.

[Rich Hunt]

5. I take it

...you don't know all that much about the LaRouchies.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. He's small potatos compared to the DLC for damage done.

He failed to move the party to the left. The DLC wannabee pugs managed to move the party to the right.

[Zhade]

9. WE HAVE A WINNAH!

Yes, indeed. Nailed it.

[trumad]

11. Oh really...so JK's to the right?

and who would be to the left?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. He's certainly to the right of Nader.

Not to mention most anti-war Democrats.

[trumad]

17. But wait a minute.

If Nader's so left then why did he use the right to help him get on the ballot. AND...Anti-War candidates ran against JK and ?????? Lost.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Why not?

Why shouldn't he take money from whomever to get on the ballot? Kerry isn't averse to taking dough from rightwings and has taken a helluva lot more than Nader has. Are you saying Kerry should return the money he got from the corporations?

As for the anti-war candidates losing. Well, with the DLC and their apologists braying that Kucinich, Dean, Sharpton and Mosely-Braun couldn't win, and Kerry running on his "tough on defense", "I'm a war hero" BS, I'm certainly not surprised that so many Democrats sold out.

Would you care to point out which of Nader's policies are to the right of Kerry's?

I'll be waiting.

[trumad]

39. Not talking about Money

I'm talking about letting republican operatives get the sigs needed to get Nader on the ballots of several states.... You OK with that?

What...so you think it was the DNC that lost it for DK, Sharpton and Carol;... LOL Did you ever think that the voters were the ones who thought those fine folks weren't ready for prime time and that DK, Sharpton and Carol didn't have a chance in hell to beat Bush. You make it sound like they had a chance? Blaming the DNC for Kerry's candidacy is quite funny... JK's 30 plus years in service to his country and JK being an outstanding human being is why JK is the nominee.... Period.

And one more thing.... If Nader's so much more left than Kerry then why does Nader seem so eager to take away votes from the Liberal and help out the Conservative? Are you OK with that?

Fuck Nader!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Still waiting.

Yes. I am OK with Nader using whatever means necessary to get on the ballot. Why not?

Nader is not running as Democrat. He is attempting to win as many votes as possible from both corporate parties.

Are you OK with Kerry taking money from rightwing corporations?

Still waiting for you to point out where Kerry is more to the left than Nader.

Are you OK with the DLC moving the party towards the right?

[sangh0]

46. So fraud is OK with you?

Not surprised

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Nope. But, I would expect those commit fraud to be in jail.

Nader isn't. Not surprised that you would, as usual, avoid the question.

[CBHagman]

48. No, Nader is attempting to screw the people he claims to help.

The ex-prime minister of Canada pretty much unmasked Nader for the hypocrite he is on, of all places, Bill Maher's show. She basically said what I've been saying for a long time, which is that if Nader really wanted to do all the things he claims to want to do -- provide affordable health care, etc. -- he could put his stature and moral authority and energy into a particular project and take steps to see it's accomplished.

Instead he shows up every four years telling like Lancelot in "Camelot," declaring his moral purity and so forth. Well, we all know just how morally pure Lancelot turned out to be, and we don't have to find Nader in bed with Republicans to know how phoney he turned out to be.

His lips say, "Yes, yes, yes," and his actions say, "No, no, no."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Actually, I agree with you.

Nader could be much more effective helping if he would put his ego aside and do good works. Not only that, but I just plain can't stand the guy.

But, this Nader bashing is senseless and serves no purpose except to promote the DLC stance that moving to the right is the only way to win.

Nader is doing a helluva lot less harm to the Democratic Party than the DLC and their apologists are.

[fujiyama]

55. Nader's intention

isn't to change anything. It's to DESTROY the democratic party. He has made it clear that he is running to "teach democrats a lesson". To him it matters little if the entire country suffers. Of course, he has done quite well for himself and he can enjoy that huge tax cut.

Throughout his career he had many opportunities to institute much more meaningful reforms than he accomplished. He did accomplish some decent things way back in the day, but he soon let his ego get the best of him and has burnt MANY bridges along the way.

I'm not going to say that he was the main cause of Gore's ultimate loss, but it surely was one of them. He made it a hell of a lot easier to steal. Nader lied to the people that both parties were the same, and his supporters gullibly bought into it. Fortunately his support has mostly collapsed.

I will never argue that Nader doesn't have a right to run, but he has run a very disingenuous campaign. He is a liar a hypocrite. He takes money from Shit Boat Liars, and various anti gay/racist groups to get on ballots. Many of the signatures on the petitions used to get him on state ballots have turned out to be fraudulent. Then he claims that these people support him, because they agree with his message?

Most of us have seen through his lies. His followers are drinking their own special kool aid.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. Hey, I don't like Nader either.

Never have. But, I do agree with most of his stances. More so than I do with Kerry.

These threads quickly degenerate into attacks on the left by DLC types who wish to move the party to the right and become even more Republican.

Nader, for all of his faults, has done far less damage to the party than the corporate DLC "moderates".

[AlFrankenFan]

6. I don't even know what LaRouche stands for...

but what I do know is that he's more of a sell-out than Nader. Nader was ok until this election, and maybe last election. Now he's just insane.

[Gaffey Duck]

50. Larouche...

Isn't he a Stalinist anti-semite who believes that QE2 runs a global drug cartel?

[JanMichael]

15. Keep your eye on the ball.

I know that blaming Nader is easy, and perhaps even fun to some folks, but the 2000 sElection was lost due to the Supreme court, a Racist voter purge, the Archaic Electoral College, umpteen other Lefty candidates and Al Gore.

I really like Al, Ok? I just think it's time to admit that he didn't really run that great of a campaign. Yes, he got some 500,000 more votes than chimpy-boy nationwide, but does anyone here really think that it should've EVER been close enough for the repukes to steal in the 1st Place?

[trumad]

19. I'll say it again for folks having a hard time grasping this

When the 2000 campaign began Gore was 15 points down in the polls.... 15 fucking points. Not only did he come back from that deficit, he won by 500,000 votes AND beat Dubya in his brothers home state.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT RUNNING A BAD CAMPAIGN.

YOU GUY'S NEED SOME BOB SOMERBY AND QUICK!

[JanMichael]

22. Who's having a hard time grasping things today?

I said:

"I just think it's time to admit that he didn't really run that great of a campaign. Yes, he got some 500,000 more votes than chimpy-boy nationwide, but does anyone here really think that it should've EVER been close enough for the repukes to steal in the 1st Place?"

I know it's easy to beautify the vanquished but you completely ignored what I said. He won the popular vote by a smidgen and considering the history of that campaign, of Clinton, of the Economy, of so many other things I can't say, I don't (Yes, it's an opinion) think that Al Gore, bless his heart, ran a great campaign start to finish. I think he finished great when he went rather populist and to the Left but the beginning was sub-par, it gave Bush room to move, and ultimately cost Al the election.

I didn't say his campaign SUCKED, and I also brought up some other points that are frequently ignored in these particular threads.

Voter Purge.
LaPore.
Other candidates to the Left of Gore.
the Supreme F'ing Court.
etcetera...

I know that it's hard to keep all of those in order but for gawds sake give it a shot:-)

[trumad]

23. Jan.... You know I love you but I disagree with you on this one

He was 15 points behind at the beginning of the race. He came back and won. God, it's like anything else... If a football team is a 15 point underdog and wins the game it's an upset.

Now imagine if that football team had incredibly biased refs, (aka the Media) and they still managed to win.

No..Gore ran a great campaign to overcome all the shit that was thrown at him.

[JanMichael]

38. I respectively disagree with your analogy.

The way I see it Gore was like Roy Jones Jr., he came in the master of his domain, but due to a challeger's rush fell quickly behind.

Bush opened up an early lead because Roy, I mean Al, was either too confident or the direct inverse of that. This is where my anology ends because Jones gets knocked out and Al eeks out a victory on the cards.

But the fact is that Gore shoulda, coulda, never been "behind" in notoriously poor early polling. It's amazing that an obviously superior candidate would ever be down by over 10 points.

From June, yes June, on they were fairly close. So he ended, compared to his start, fabulously. But on the whole it wasn't a spectacular campaign.

Also in the end some 20% of all "Dem" voters and (Woah!) 12% of self- identified "liberal" voters, 39% of women voters (That's f'ing amazing...), 44% of seniors (Greedy old windbags I guess), a third of voters earning under $20,000 per year (This one kills me, it truly kills me.) and 42% of those earning $20-30,000 annually (This kills me too but not as much as the previous number), plus 31% of voting union members fucked up the planet and cast a ballot for a fascist.

In the end though I think I'd probably just "blame" Billy Boy, if we want to play the blame game, before Nader. Minus one Blue Dress splattered with His Glory and Gore would've won.

[trumad]

42. There was no open up the lead

because Gore was behind from the beginning. Clinton put the dude in a hole...A big fucking hole that Al climbed out of. That's a fact. You ignoring the media bias is amazing to me........Let me tell you something...If Gore had the internet like JK has today, he would have been President. The reason JK's tied today is because the blogs, DU, Guy James, etc are there to help fight the fight against Rove and the complicit media. Come on Jan...You know that.

[sangh0]

44. And it was close ONLY because TENS OF THOUSANDS of voters

were disenfranchised.

Al Gore won Florida by more than 90,000 votes.

People, get over Nadir, and read some Palast

[trumad]

60. Hmmm..isn't that the vote count that Nader got?

in FL.

[fujiyama]

57. Gore is a stand up guy

and would have made a great president. While I have some differences in how he run that campaign, it amazes me how many people still continue to defend Nader, especially after the way he has acted in this election.

It's not worth arguing with the Naderites. These Naderites are drinkin their own special kool aid.

[NightTrain]

16. LaRouche supporters by a country mile!

Nader supporters may be naive about how the political process works, but that doesn't make them crazy.

[kaishaku]

18. none of the above

People who are obsessed with bashing Nader are nuttiest.

[trumad]

20. Oh really.

Fuck nader!

[Aidoneus]

27. Yes, really

Kind of you to offer yourself up as an example of what was mentioned.

[trumad]

36. Awful presumptuous aren't ya?

Just because I say Fuck Nader doesn't mean I'm obsessed with him,... I more obsessed with the Nader lovers only because I find their pompous attitudes about such a fuck-wad fascinating. But then again I've always been fascinated by idiots!

[jonnyblitz]

37. I agree.

crazed fucking mob types.

[trumad]

41. Sounds like a fucking Rove phrase

Just because we call Nader a dick head were crazed?

[sangh0]

45. Whenever one criticizes a Repuke

they call you "crazed" or "a hater"

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

21. Larouche is more environmentally advanced.

In the midst of all his mumbo-jumbo, people who study ecology, geography, etc. can see the increasingly valid idea of bioregional government.

Nader is a flatulent sleaze--Larouche is weird, but he may not seem quite as weird in the future. I appreciate that he fought hard against the Schwarzenazi here in my state.

[nodehopper]

24. Larouche is nuttier than Nader. I don't know

about the followers. Someone I know has a good explanation of LaRouche as part of the phenomonon of sane premises producing completley insane ideas.

[Aidoneus]

26. Other: the bluestateguyites

for ridiculous bullshit like this thread.

[KamaAina]

28. Call back when Nader supporters are busted for credit card fraud

'Til then, LaRouche "wins" this one in a walkover.

[GRLMGC]

29. Dude

Larouche has a cult. I don't agree w/ Nader voters but at least they don't abandon their lives for their "leader"

[RichardRay]

30. 'Nuttier' vs 'More of Problem'

LaRouche is nuttier by great measure, he's a complete wack job and has been for years. Ralph has some good ideas and some points that need to be made, but he's letting his ego get him into trouble. Since Nader has more chance of pulling votes from JK in marginal states and thus keeping W in office, he's clearly more of a problem. Nader doesn't even show up on the nuttiness radar compared to LaRouche.

Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY

[hiphopnation]

31. what's so nutty about supporting a third party?

[0007]

33. junior couldn't have said it better.

[sangh0]

47. So Nader is now a third-party?

Boy, are these Naderites deluded

[hiphopnation]

58. How "fair and balanced" of you.

[Zero Division]

32. Most of the people who support Nader during this election come close

to the LaRouchers, IMO. They're certainly living in another reality.

A few of this year's Naderites may those who are just too young to have noticed what just happened in the last 4 years and the general history of third party movements in the United States. I bet most of them will snap out of it and come to regret their support for Nader, just like myself and many of those of us who supported Nader in 2000. As for the rest, it seems like they're beyond reason, including Nader himself.

[camero]

34. Bushies

I mean, come on, do the Naderites or LaRouches try to use God to legitimize their authority?

[kiahzero]

40. Thinking the Queen of England has any power gives one the win by default

[autorank]

49. LaRoucheers don't deserve slander of comparison to Naderites!

[leftofthedial]

51. Larouchies are harmless wack jobs

Naderites are helping to destroy civilization.

[robbedvoter]

53. Ironically, Naderites. LaRouche endorsed Kerry!

[fujiyama]

54. There's no question anymore

LaRouchites are freaky people, but this election year they've been out heckling Nader. Plus, LaRouche actually ended up endorsing Kerry, though I'm sure that's one endorsement Kerry could have gone without.

[burrowowl]

56. Winona is for Kerry

former Nader running mate:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1016-28.htm

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. And I am for Winona as Sec'y of the Interior

[T Town Jake]

59. The Naderites are just deluded idealists...

...the LaRouchers are bug-eyed fanatics.

That said, I think the Naderites have the potential to do more damage for the simple fact that a vote for Nader is a vote for *W, as we witnessed four years ago. No stable, sane, thinking person takes the LaRouchers seriously; and their voting strength ranges from scant to negligible.

[MsAnthropy]

61. The Neocons are crazier than all of them put together

I haven't noticed any LaRouchers or Naderites espousing world domination, permanent war, and an American empire.

[noonwitch]

65. Definitely LaRouchers-but my Nader-loving friend is crazy

the LaRouche people campaigned for their guy when he was in prison for tax evasion. Say what you want about Ralph, but he's not a crook.

I do have a friend who voted for Nader in 2000. I told her she was throwing her vote away in a state where it counted (MI). She is certifiably nuts-on a good day, she's histrionic and slightly paranoid. On a bad day, she's a paranoid schizophrenic. Seriously, a few doses of Mellaril every day and she'd probably be okay.