Who do YOU think won the VP debate (honest answers)...

[friesianrider]

Who do YOU think won the VP debate (being totally honest)?

I think it was a draw; Edwards was nervous, but obviously held his own, and Cheney was rigid and monotone as ever, not to mention flimsy with the facts. Plus Cheney can do NOTHING but attack others, and it showed tonight.

My inkling is that the media will declare it a rousing victory for B/C, you know, just to be "fair" since Kerry so obviously wiped the floor with Shrub Thursday.

[UCLA Dem]

1. Edwards

[phylny]

26. I think it was pretty close,

but Edwards held his own, and he brought up a lot of things people needed to hear.

Honestly, Cheney makes Bush look incredibly dim and bad. What a difference. I mean, they're both truth-impaired, but at least Cheney can put two words together that GO together.

[Pegleg Thd]

28. Edwards won without a doubt

chaney showed that there is no reason for him to continue breathing our air. he is a walking pile of male bovine defecation!!!!:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[Carla in Ca]

105. Oh, so right

[derrald]

2. I'm GLAD Cheney did so well

Now bush looks _EVEN_ worse!

[derrald]

3. Oh yeah, and Edwards Won :)

woo, 200 posts, I knew I could do it!

[GP6971]

4. Draw n/t

[knitter4democracy]

19. I agree

They're both sounding good to their bases, but I'm not sure either is getting the undecideds. Edwards came out of the gate really strong, but he's faltering now . . .

[coalition_unwilling]

110. According to a CBS flash poll of 'uncommitted voters' last night

Edwards decisively won, by more than 10% margin.

[TomClash]

5. Edwards

Cheney - a lot of facts - most of them wrong.

[friesianrider]

18. Ditto...

He kept reciting number after number after number. He even talked about Bush not needing Cheney on the ticket to carry Wyoming because they carried 70% of Wyoming. WTF makes that relevent to ANYTHING?

[Kool Kitty]

96. If they're wrong, they're not facts.

Edwards won.

[gemlake]

6. Edwards n/t

[Nite Owl]

7. Edwards seems to

be the clear winner but not a walkoff like with Kerry and *.

[Memekiller]

8. Edwards...

There was no way he'd route Cheney as badly as Kerry routed Bush. That's rarely happened in history. But judged on its own, Edwards made starkly clear Cheney's uncomfortable relationship with reality.

[geomon666]

9. Edwards

Cheney just repeated the chimp except Cheney can actually talk. The same flip flop nonsense all night was all he had to say.

[noiretextatique]

10. i give edwards the edge...because

cheney was a bore...i could barely listen to him. edwards was much more interesting, imho.

[rainy]

11. I didn't see edwards nerves at all

nt

[Rick Myers]

12. A draw...

Edwards did atleast as good as I expected...

Cheney has slipping for the first half, caught his footing, did about one point better than I'd expected...

I call it a draw!

[951]

32. I wish I could bitch slap you through the screen

Just kidding!

But seriously Edwards did great in my opinion Cheney avoided alot of issues

[obietiger]

13. Edwards

Loved his line to the effect that Bush is a divider not uniter

[TwoHandedLayup]

14. Agree with you

I think Cheney is much more in control than Bush was on Thursday. Edwards has been nervous and that comes off badly. It was a draw for Edwards/ Cheney.

[underseasurveyor]

41. I don't think Edwards is/was nervous

I think it was more like his mouth couldn't keep up with his sharp mind. An experience the Dim-son will never have to worry about.

I give it to Edwards because he had and put forth knowledge and information. Dicky-doodoo merely repeated himself and attacked the JK and JE "record" and despite being more articulate than the Dim-son, dicky didn't say anything new or different. Just the same bush/cheney crap, sit and spin and lie.

NOW........off to the online polls :-)

[Digit]

15. Edwards

[zzapatista]

16. I don't know who the media will declare the winner but i'd say while

Edwards had good content and Cheney just did the same ole crap it seemed like the whole thing was sloppy. The moderator couldn't keep them on topic or even remember who's turn it was. Gave the whole thing a hectic feel.

[friesianrider]

23. Yeah, I agree, too...strange debate...

It did seem very hap-hazard and focused on "topics" that seemed to have no relevence...questions about gay marriage and flip-flopping. The moderator sucked.

[zzapatista]

33. There was one questions that basically boiled down to "Do you take..."

personal attacks by BushCo personally?" And Edwards had 2 minutes. What was he supposed to do? Say yes and then whistle a jolly tune??

[liberalcanuck]

54. LOL! I thought that was very odd also. She'd give Edwards this

very odd, light question when it was his turn for a 2 minute answer. She was a shitty moderator.

[zzapatista]

25. But of course Edwards wins to thinking people.

[Julian English]

17. Edwards--by a hair

a whole head of hair!

The drug finale kicked some Crashcart butt!

[Triana]

20. Edwards by a small margin...

1-10 scale:

Edwards: 8

Cheney: 7

Neither did really great. Edwards is more credible. Cheney just didn't respond to a couple issues (gay marriage) and responded poorly to a couple of them (Halliburton, jobs).

Just IMO - it was Edwards by a hair. I expect the media punditry will call it a draw or declare Tricky Dick II the winner.

[sysoprock]

21. Tie

I think they both held themselves very well.

Edwards held his own against Cheney and got alot of good shots off on him, but Cheney had his facts together ALOT more than Bush did on Thursday.

My guess is after this debate the GOP will disguise Cheney as Bush and let him battle John Kerry.

[Gopens]

31. Edwards wins it

I didn't notice any nervousness from Edwards. If anything, I think Cheney came across as the more anxious once Edwards started landing some punches.

[Postman]

Edwards.

n/t

[B Calm]

22. Edwards clearly won this debate

with truth!

[951]

24. Edwards - Cheney avoided alot of issues

[porphyrian]

It doesn't matter.

Friday will matter more.

[Dem2theMax]

27. Can I go 70/30 Edwards/Cheney? I don't quite think it was a draw, but

also not a flat out win for Edwards. Knowing that Cheney sat there lying for most of the debate puts Edwards on top to me. But I have heard Edwards be a lot stronger and much more direct in the past. I really think the stupid moderator and her dumb questions had a lot to do with the bad flow of the debate. So I have to put a lot of blame at her feet. So 70/30 to me, with Edwards on top.

[friesianrider]

34. The moderator DID suck...

WTF is with the flip-flop question?

Seemed like this debate was a side show.

I still say a draw...

[Kilroy003]

29. I'm gonna have to give this one to Cheney.

Sorry guys. Edwards missed too many opportunities early on. This debate was kinda boring. If I was in a jury and Edwards was prosecuting Cheney, I'd aquit. Of course, I know how Cheney is, but a stronger case must be made.

[eridani]

67. I think he just missed one opportunity--

--the opportunity to stuff Cheney's 1992 words in his face, i.e.

"And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not that damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the President made the decision that we had achieved our objectives and we were not going to get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

87. Did you take a nap while the debate was going on?

[Kilroy003]

101. No, I watched and listened intently.

My take is that K/E needed Cheney to blow up and tell him to "Go Cheney yourself!".

He didn't.

Have you noticed the 'win' for online polls is going overwhelmingly to Edwards? I have, and I must admit I am beginning to feel somewhat unsettled about the whole thing.

I plan to watch the debate again, this time I will wear my bet partisan hat. Maybe Edwards really did win this thing and I was just off my game earlier. I was trying my hardest to keep an open mind and think like a regular guy. You know, a guy who doesn't think Crashcart is an evil villain. I suppose I will find out at the water cooler tomorrow.

[stupid grin]

30. Edwards, hands down.

[0007]

49. I'll second that

[sweetheart]

35. Being abroad, i've heard and seen nothing of the debate

So, if someone can give an honest answer, please include a full
context and be as objective as possible, so that i can process the
data.

What i've read from the threads... of course DU loves its champion,
and to question Edwards under such stress is to be declared freeper,
as several trolls turned up in campaign2004... purposely misleading.

So, someone please tell me the truth?

[noiretextatique]

42. cheney lied thru his teeth the entire time

edwards was much more substantive, interesting...and most importantly, more human. i'm listening to air america, and someone just made a good point: given edwards inexperience, cheney should have blown him out of the water, and that didn't happen. edwards more than held his own, and then some. for that reason, i think edwards won this debate.
edwards got in a few comments about haliburton (which were great), and frankly, cheney didn't hit any home runs.
cheney tried quite a few dirty tricks, including lying about the link between iraq and terrorism. he also attempted to smear john kerry...he actually claimed that kerry didn't have the conviction to be commander in chief, based on his voting record.
but edwards nailed him on his own voting record in the house, which was very, very effective, imho.

[Eye4anEye]

36. based on "honest answers", Edwards by far....................

eom

[gumby]

37. Draw at best

Even as a draw, the no-blood vampire that only comes out of his undisclosed location to debate has WON.

Sorry, but that's the fact. Edwards had to plunge the stake through that Prince of Darkness' heart and he didn't even come close.

I recently watched "Buffy, The Vampire Killer." Edwards didn't fill her wonderfully eclectic shoes.

[Clobbersaurus]

38. I think everyone HERE will say Edwards...

We obviously agree with him on everything said. We agree that he slammed Cheney on many points. You know and I know that Cheney lied through his teeth and that the moderator was asking bullshit questions and acted even RUDE to Edwards at times.

BUT I'm trying to be objective and pretend I don't know all I know.

I don't know if he's going to reach the moderate repugs or undecideds. Everyone was expecting the most eloquent speaker in the last few generations. But he "broke the rules" and had too much back and forth with the moderator. He stumbled. He got rattled at times. Cheney stayed his usual cool reptilian self and passed it off as a "strong leader".

I can only pray that this will go our way, but I just can see how this is going to be spun out. They WILL say that Cheney beat the hell out of him.

Am I way off base? Am I trying to over-compensate too much for my own bias?

[RaleighNCDUer]

76. I'm afraid I have to agree. I thought, or rather hoped, JE would tear

Darth Cheney a new one, that he would pressure the Dark Lord enough on Halliburton and the energy policy and the build up to the war that he'd melt down "Ohh, what have you done?! All my beautiful evil!"

Didn't happen.

[Puglover]

39. I think it was 50/50

if you don't take into account that Crashcart lied and lied and spun and sneered and lied somemore. And as far as the facts I'm aware of Edwards gave it to America straight. So who do YOU think won?

[Killer Poodle]

40. Edwards edged out the win. But I'm a Partisan =)

[OneTwentyoNine]

43. Cheney clear winner.....at LYING through his teeth....my God

1.7 million NEW jobs created?!?!??! BULLSHIT
Only 50% of coalition deaths in Iraq are US?!?!?!?! BULLSHIT


David

[gatlingforme]

107. 1.7 millions jobs created maybe...... but they lost more jobs then

were created --- he forgot to mention that. also, 50% of coalition deaths.... he added the iraqi death count in that. which makes no sense since we are the ones that invaded. He is one big FAT ASS LIAR.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Depends, watched part on C-SPAN split screen

Listened to part of it over Air America

If you listened to this over the radio, Chenney won... no doubt in my mind... If you WATCHED IT, Edwards won

Most folks WATCHED IT... that is a good thing.

Keneddy-Nixon truly

[Julian English]

45. I listened to it on NPR and I thought that Edwards won by a hair

but opinions differ.

Edwards closing was great while Cheney returned to his fear mongering.

[friesianrider]

46. Totally...Edwards' closing statement was GREAT

Same as *, Cheney just went back to the "Vote for Bush or Die" mantra.

[Mandate My Ass]

47. Truthtelling, rebuttal and facts at the fingertips...definitely Edwards

Cheney was lying his ass off but he kept his cool. I had to give him grudging points for his response to Edwards' praise of his family and daughter and not rising to the bait of the hypocrisy of having a gay child and supporting a disgraceful Constitutional Amendment against gay marriage (especially when it was a flip flop). IOW, I knew he was lying his ass off, but to the uninformed, his delivery was more than up to par.

Edwards got many more points for pointing out not only that the US is more divided along partisan lines than ever, but that it's by design of the current administration.

Rattled off Cheney's defense cuts when he was def sec.

Laid out how health care costs are more impacted by big insurance and big pharma than by med mal lawsuits.

Also nailed Cheney on voting against Meals on Wheels, Head Start, MLK Jr. holiday etc.

I thought Edwards missed a big opening on the question of intelligence. Really could have nailed Cheney 'big time' on cooked intel and how much pressure was applied to CIA to produce intel that back WH agenda rather than let intel dictate policy.

[wysiwyg]

48. Cheney won first part, Edwards the second

I think Cheney won the first part of the debate about foreign policy mostly because Cheney let loose with distortion after distortion that echoed the GOP campaign themes mostly without being challenged by Edwards. It looked to me like Edwards was really going to say what he was planning to say and wasn't responsive enough to the attacks. I was annoyed at the moderator because when Cheney made his worst charges Edwards wasn't given a 60/30 sec continuation even though he obviously wanted one. That happened twice. That said, perhaps that's just Edward's choice. As a Democrat who gets exasperated at distortions not being answered by my party, or those answers not being covered, I regret any lost opportunities for the candidates to set the record straight.

Edwards more than held his own on domestic issues and Cheney didn't seem to really give a crap at this point. Sen. Edwards really knew his stuff here and didn't have to stick to the talking points. He was more freely discussing his take on these issues than he was in foreign policy.

Personally I think Edwards should have answered the question about him being qualified to be "one heartbeat from the Presidency" by stating he is more qualified to be President than George Bush was in 2000. ahh well, that would have been a good sound bite :-)

[Samantha]

50. It depends whether you watched thru a political lens versus a legal lens

Whoever spoke to your issues is the person you will say won the debate. Most of the pundits are calling it for Cheney. They, however, watched it purely through a political lens. Most of the American people are not political junkies. They tune in more often to Law and Order than to Hardball.

I personally saw the debate as a tie up until the middle of the debate. Cheney's remark about not meeting Edwards until this evening was stunning, but was it true? He has probably seen him often but not condescended to speak to him.

Edwards on the other hand was successful in pointing out Halliburton did business with Iraq while there were sanctions against it. Edwards pointed out Halliburton chose to pay the fines to collect the profit while the sanctions were in place. This among other things made Cheney and Halliburton look extremely sleazy.

Edwards' remark about Cheney's voting record was wonderful. I was stunned to learn about Cheney's vote against Meals on Wheels. How embarrassing. Shows what an extreme tightwad these Republicans are.

Edwards continually made the point there was no connection between 911 and Saddam. His chronic inference that Bush/Cheney do not tell the American people the truth was effective.

One of the best lines Edwards had was a direct hit on Karl Rove. Rove does deliberately divide this country by chronically bringing up so-called morality issues while totally avoiding the substantive issues we should be discussing.

I think the answer to the question who won the debate lies in the answer what is important to you as an American? We won't know the answer until Americans vote.

As I type this post, MSNBC pundits behind me say Edwards constantly looked like he had been slapped. I watched very closely AND I DID NOT SEE THAT. What I did see was Edwards slightly closing his eyes and studying Cheney as he spoke, a technique many lawyers utilize when absorbing testimony in depositions or court. I have seen that very expression many, many times, and it is not a reaction from having been slapped. Edwards pretty much kept his poker face.

In any event, Edwards did not have to "win." He held his own against Cheney, whom the neocons idolize, and in that regard, he "won."

One final thought, this is the party of "family values." How can that hypocrite sit there and talk down gay marriage when his daughter is in a gay relationship. When he said simply thank you for the kind remarks about my daughter, he ceded the issue. There's no other word, he ceded. The pundits are painting that quite differently.

[jdj]

91. No, it's another lie, they have met twice, and both times are on film.

Cheney is the worst sociopathic liar I have ever seen.

[daleo]

51. I thought it was pretty close

I didn't hate Cheney on sight, the way I expected to, so I guess that was an achievement for him. Edwards showed he could handle the job (or the presidency, if it came to that), though.

Cheney's big problem was the "I don't know where it start" lines, and sometimes just not using his time at all. It made him seem evasive. On the plus side for him, he may have reassured a lot of Republicans that their "real" president was up to the job, even if Bush isn't.

Edwards jumped from subject to subject a bit, and was perhaps more animated than he would like. These are understandable, given his age and relative inexperience in such a huge role, and didn't really detract though. However, his intelligence came through.

The comments about Cheney's daughter worked for both of them - it showed civility from Edwards, but also humanized Cheney. Of course, those people who are bothered by gay mairrage, or gays in general wouldn't think so.

[HerbieHeadhunter]

52. Edwards .

I felt he was more agressive, had Dick on the defensive and brought up much, especially in the beginning, that Dick couldn't respond to....Bremer, Cheney's record, etc...

[InhaleToTheChief]

53. Sounded like Cheney to me

Disclaimer: I listened to the whole debate on the radio. I don't have/need/want cable telivision. So, if Cheney had dark clouds swirling behind him and evil imps throwing lighting bolts at Edwards, I didn't benefit from that visual edge Edwards may have enjoyed. That said...

Gay marriage - Edwards foamed at the mouth for way too long. He repeatedly harped on the fact that he and Kerry believe marriage is between a man and a woman. Then a bunch of crap about "but we still think..." and " enjoy benefits...", in some circumstances, blah blah blah. But back to "marriage is between a man and a woman..." Hell, there's no way I'll vote anyone but Kerry and Edwards, but I certainly don't support their position on that issue as presented by Edwards. Discussing gay marriage gains them nothing and loses a lot.

The "don't say the candidate's name" question - stupid question, but why the hell can't Edwards remember not to say Kerry's name?

Edwards tried to jump around on too many topics. He was always saying "to address your question 10 minutes ago" or "to go back to what the Vice President said a minute ago". Kerry/Bush did it a bit on Thursday too, but Edwards was all over the map sometimes. Cheney knew when to just walk away from a question.

Medicare bill - Cheney set Edwards up for a slam dunk over the Medicare bill by claiming it as the Bush Administration's big health care achievment. Edwards didn't touch it in his response. He had a perfect opportunity to point out the ways the Medicare bill screws people.

I thought Edwards did great in a lot of ways, too. He repeatedly brought up the lies about Saddama Bin Husseiden and the 9/11 connection. He pointed out a number of Cheney's lies on several topics.

But unless the visual version of the debate was a drastically different experience, I'd think the media would hand this one to Cheney.

In the end I don't think it matters much, and we can probably call it a tie if we want to. I learned tonight that I am very glad that Kerry is the nominee over Edwards. It becomes ever more clear to me that Kerry's years of experience in government will benefit him as a candidate and as then as the President of the United States.

[drbtg1]

55. Edwards, but he should have been a lot better

Example: When Cheney thought he never met Edwards, Edwards should have responded with 1.) refuting him if they did met, but I'm sure it wasn't as memorable as 2.) (regardless of number 1) the encounter with Sen. Leahy.

When Cheney didn't respond to Halliburton charges, Dept of Education creation, Dr. King holiday, Mr. Mandela resolution, et cetera, Edwards should have made note of his non-answer.

When the gay marriage issue was raised, Edwards should have noted, tactfully, Mary Cheney's non-presence on the RNC stage.

[JohnParkerfan]

56. I think it was a draw

dammit,get real,old man won,shit,nobody watchhes anyway.

[More Than A Feeling]

57. My mind says Edwards, but my heart says draw...

Of course, I thought Edwards clear, concise points were better than Cheney's rambling squad of misleading or pointless numbers, and I loved Edward's attack on Cheney's congressional record. That I was not expecting at all, and it was brilliant.

However, for much of the debate it seemed as though they were shooting past each other. Cheney is of course, a vicious mofo, but it seemed like Edward's attacks just slid off of him, unlike those of Kerry on Bush. Edwards did not hit the home run that Kerry did, but considering the relative experience, Edwards did great.

I would love to call this for Edwards, but I honestly think that this won't have the effect that Kerry's did.

That is my story, and I am sticking to it.

[2cents]

58. Edwards by decision...

Edwards was too nice, rather than go for the KO he let Cheney off easy.

I saw a little "eye of the tiger" in the beginning but he didn't follow through.

[knowbody0]

59. john edwards

honesty and hope radiated out of him
cheney looked cruel and dishonest-his monotone and hypnotic voice was
absolutely putrid

[Emops]

74. Edwards held his own...

...on foreign policy, which impressed me quite a bit. Whenever Dick lied, Edwards refuted it well- maybe not as well as Kerry would have, but good enough. Cheney did well, I suppose, by virtue of the fact that he didn't drop an F-bomb or have a heart attack. That he didn't even try to defend his doings with Halliburton shows his true colors.

Frankly, I think the whole war issue was just a game of soundbite volleyball, and I couldn't wait for the debate to get to domestic issues.

That's where Edwards scored. Dick knows he and Shrub have an abysmal record, and Edwards really took him to task for it. I loved his comments about Head Start, Meals on Wheels, etc. I will admit that Cheney's comments on Edwards' absence in the Senate sounded effective.

Fortunately, I can think of no conceivable way that Cheney endeared himself to anyone who didn't like him before. And Edwards (this is coming from a 21-yr. old heterosexual male) is dreamy. ;-)

I think Cheney pulled a Gore- most will admit (albeit begrudgingly) that he knows a lot more than Edwards, but since Edwards held his own and scored a few good hits, it's a tie with Edwards coming out more favorably.

Oh, and my mom made a good point- how could anyone disagree with anything Edwards said all night?

Cheney's a dick.

[shrike]

60. Draw

Edwards did not do as well as I'd hoped, but Cheney seemed to run out of gas, particularly at the end. Neither landed a knockout punch.

[Malikshah]

61. "(honest answers)"...as if that needs to be said...

Sorry, but with a intro like that.

Know fatal mistakes.

It will be the slow drip of mediocrity in Cheney's performance
His one-note charlie answers.
His "stay the course" into hell policy

Edwards stuck it to him on the votes issues in Congress
Edwards got the word out on Halliburton
Edwards got the word out on Iraq
Edwards provided plans or at least discussion of plans in future debates (time constraints being what they are)

The flickering light ending was brilliant and powerful

Cheney lost.

Pure and simple.

Will this decide the election? No.

Will the next two debates? With the media analysis-- yes.

The point is that the media and its analysis decides the popular sentiment more than people will like to admit.

The media in some rare instances is turning.

This dripdripdrip will be a raging torrent.

The only thing that will dam it up-- the October surprise(s) that KKKarl Rove has in store.

Possible Surprises. UBL on ice
WMD in Iraq (fabricated mind you, but effective imagery)

[kiahzero]

62. Slight win for Edwards

I think he could have done better, and Cheney did well, but I think Edwards did better than Cheney.

[chemteacher]

63. I think they are both VP candidates doing their job..

They each would begin a response by referring to an earlier question and getting in a few more talking points. I think JE missed the chance to hit hard on a few questions that way.

The awesome "They reward wealth, we reward work." line was buried halfway through another response.

I think it was a draw. Cheney is evil, but he is not a moron like the chimp. It's "HARD WORK" pulling the puppet strings.

[roguevalley]

64. The polls will tell us the winner because they will drive the perceptions

of the nation. So far, Edwards is winning in the polls. Good enough for me. :)

[jmags]

65. Barely Edwards

Edwards improved on some of the errors Kerry made, and was smart in continuing to pound home Tora Bora, as I saw that resonated in a number of polls. However, since Cheney was following up an absolutely terrible performance by Bush, by him simply being able to explain the Bush/Cheney position, he has a built in advantage over Edwards.

I hope the media really examines some of Cheney's claims, which really have no basis in reality. While I was pleased overall with Edwards, there were really some moments were he could have countered Cheney more effectively.

I tuned out right after the debates because I can't take the spin, but I'd expect many pundits to call it to Cheney because it was close, and well if they gave it to Edwards, then they'd be afraid they were biased.
I expect that to occur in the final debates with Bush as well, if he doesn't throw temper-tantrums with his body language.

However, voters see Cheney, and now Kerry will have two more outings with Bush...and while Bush won't be quite as bad as the first debate, he will never be close to as effective as Cheney. Cheney can lie and look you straight in the eye. Bush can barely speak period. So for that reason, I'm very confident in our chances Nov 2. Edwards at worst got a draw, and Kerry gets to pound home the terrible domestic record, where Bush will stutter and stumble and pause and blink and grimace his way out of explaining why they happen to suck so bad.

[belle]

90. Mostly agree with this, but Edwards had the additional advantage of

not coming off like the Evil Dead. Which is not inconsiderable.

I thought Edwards got in some excellent jabs, and he really shines when he's talking about economic issues. In other spots I found him a bit shaky. You know, I like him well enough, I'm glad he's in the veep spot, I think he's charming and likable and well-spoken, more so about some issues than others. And I'm very glad to see that he doesn't pull punches. Overall, though, I'm really glad, more than ever, that the #1 and #2 spots shook out the way they did.

Cheney, though...I guess the one thing I'll give him credit for is that, at least on the non physical combat front, he's not nearly as much of a chickenshit as *. In fact he actually seems to thrive on attacks. He's definitely smarter than *. But Christ, he's *boring.* I hadn't expected that. It was interesting: the only times he seemed to get animated was when he had an excuse to slam back at Edwards. Nastiness is his forte. The rest of the time...he kind of mumbled, I thought, and he talked too fast. I actually couldn't focus on what he was saying, I found. As for body language...well, it's certainly more controlled than Bush's, but I'm not sure that's such a good thing in his case. That rodent sneer seems permanently engraved into his face. And there were moments when I just shuddered; you could see that the *really* nasty side of him was under wraps, which is boggling. I was actually thinking that maybe Edwards ought to stay out of small aircraft for the next while. Or dark alleys. Or at least carry a crucifix and some garlic. brrrr.

[jdj]

94. I'm starting to wonder if Edwards was told specifically not to

upstage John Kerry's performance against Bush, and instead to seem homey and down to earth, because they knew Cheney would come off like Son of Sam. That has to be it, because Edwards only gave Cheney a tenth of what he has in him.

[Julian English]

66. CBS poll says Edwards kicked ass

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=37556
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/politics/main641817.shtml


By 41 percent to 29 percent, uncommitted debate watchers say Edwards won the debate tonight.

[The_Casual_Observer]

68. Honest Answers we provide by Edwards

cheney provide the same god damn shit that has gotten this country where it is today.This is what people saw tonight.

[alfredo]

69. Close, but Edwards won in that he introduced himself to the

American people tonight. He did what he set out to do, and that was to display his street cred.

Edwards did not need to win the debate to win.

[H2O Man]

70. Edwards

Clearly.

[Eugene]

71. Edwards narrowly

Both did well in their on terms but Cheney
was just repeating the same old attack B.S.
He did not help him self with his tenuous
and shifty effort to tie Saddam and Al-Queada.

:dem:

[DemonFighterLives]

72. Very close to a draw

Except that Cheney trying to paint the rosy pictures of Afghanistan and Iraq was sickening. He is much more intelligent than B*sh, but with all the bad stuff in his and dubby's closet, the truth must not get out. He had a fit over Edwards not counting the Iraqi "allies" among the coalition deaths. Cheney says that the US has only suffered 50% of the death over there and that's not bad in his mind.
Also Dick claimed he never saw John before in the senate. That has to be a lie, but was more used to paint Edwards as missing his duties or too much of a kid to matter. Arrogant ahole.
Cheney also tried to change the subject away from Halliburton where Edwards scored a few points.
Cheney has been trotting his Iraq/al qaeda ties all along and tonight he denies he ever said it. Tommorrow he'll be right back there saying it again before the freepers catch on.

[question everything]

73. Considering how heavy Cheney is, Edwards held his own well

He was weak on Iraq, repeated what Kerry said last week, but was strong on domestic issues and will be interesting to watch the next debate - about those issues.

I felt bad for Gwen Ifel who did not always get straight answers, Edwards just kept going back to the same phrases. For example, when she asked them about themselves, Cheney's reply was better, while Edwards kept referring to Kerry or, at least "we."

At the end, Edwards Sunny disposition won, I hope, over Cheney's dour one.

[Dem_Loyalist]

89. This sucks

I just got home from the second job and missed the debates. I so wish I could have seen John Edwards take apart that scowling unhappy man cheney....But it helps pay for tutoring for the kids so I shouldn't complain. My feet are killing me.

[MISSDem]

121. The New York Times has it on video

and if you have a player you can see it.

[Qanisqineq]

75. well, I can't tell because Cheney was so monotone he put me to sleep

I did think Edwards sounded defensive at times and that bothered me. However, I thought Cheney sounded too snide and I can't stand him. It was close, but Edwards won.

[helpisontheway]

77. TIE

I think both of them had their moments. HOWEVER, I think most voters will say that Edwards won because I think he will connect better with undecided or swing voters.

[troubleinwinter]

78. Too busy telling polls my HONEST answer: Edwards!!!!

[Emops]

79. Oh, and this...

Edwards mentioned Cleveland a lot.

That has got to help Kerry here in Ohio, especially since Cuyahoga County and the rest of the state got a lot of new voter registrations in.

[captain disgruntled]

93. I was also disappointed by how narrowly I thought Edwards won

I too was hoping for a Crash-cart smackdown, but have to concur--just to hold your own with a life-long denizen of the White House is an accomplishment.
Thought Cheney got in an effective one with his jab on Edwards' voting record, which he didn't even seem interested in refuting, but Edwards hung in there and had a good go at straightening out that "voted against the $87 billion" thing (again). And his calling Cheney on his own votes was pretty devastating.
Their physical presences were soooo different--like *, Crash-cart looked like he'd been dumped in his chair from a great height--has the whole administration had their spines removed??? Half the time you could hardly make out what he was saying because he had his hands folded over his microphone.
And Edwards was so pleasant in his closing, and then Crash-cart finished--and didn't thank Edwards.
V. rude.

[EnfantTerrible]

80. By what criteria are we supposed to judge?

Because I really haven't heard the pundits discuss the actual content of the debate. Instead it's all been about who LOOKED better while they were saying it.

Obviously Edwards won this on content. I knew going in that it would be hard to look strong against Cheney because Cheney gives little or nothing away. He always SEEMS rational and is a master at deflection and diversion.

I can only hope that people paid attention to what he was so calm and rational about.

Edwards won on content.

[Overseas]

81. IF TRUTH IS VERBOTTEN-- minus 50 points

And the ability to lie casually and rattle off cover up lingo is primary -- plus 50 points-- then voila !! The War Profiteer in Chief obviously won.

>>>But if getting some of the main failures of and questions about this administration across to the American people persistently yet quietly was the test-- Edwards has won.

>>>P.S. Edwards probably didn't want to give Cheney a heart attack since he's so popular with the American people and we need him on Bush's ticket!

[Swamp Rat]

82. John Edwards won the debate.

The alien lizard kept his human form in check, but that's all he could do.

[Cleita]

83. Gee no one is admitting that Kerry wiped the floor with Shrub.

Is there a link to that?

[flaminbats]

84. watching the debate with a Republican trial lawyer...

it was a strange experience when they got to the part on gay marriage. My friend thought Edward's answer was thoughtful, pro-states' rights, and very lawyerly. I thought it was insensitive, rambling, and very southern of him.

To be honest I felt hypocrite Cheney's answer on gay marriage was his best...absolutely nothing! On most of the other issues this Republican lawyer agreed with Cheney, and I agreed with Edwards. The other times which we agreed with John Edwards was when debating healthcare, outsourcing, and defending the importance of his tort cases.

[slinkerwink]

85. Edwardss by a moderate margin

[Media_Lies_Daily]

86. Edwards...and by the end of the debate, he was widening his lead.

[Demoiselle]

88. Edwards.

He won on substance, energy, clarity. Cheney keeps recirculating the same old crap. Cheney had no convincing answers for any of Edwards' jabs. The only difference in this one is that Cheney doesn't look certifiably insane. That authoritative drone sounds legit..until you listen to what he's actually saying. Of course the freepers are going to feel happier about this one...he didn't look nuts, distracted, peeved like the boy king...and they've always believed his lies.
Cheers for Edwards. Nervous? I don't think so!

[Neshanic]

92. Edwards. He brought up all the things that people need to know.

Halliburton, the evil one's stellar voting record on popular issues and programs.

[candy331]

98. Edwards by likability, the new man you would like to drink a beer with

so goodbye Bush. And Cheney could actually say with a straight face he never said 911 and Saddam connected? ROFLMAO,even the news media laughed at this one. What will he say here in Tallahassee, Florida today,nothing of substance I'm sure.

[msmcghee]

95. I thought Edwards was by far more accurate and forceful with . .

. . his answers. But Cheney was a good debater. He had a poor record to debate on but did pretty well anyway.

What this debate really showed was of the four of them . . Bush is a real lightweight mentally compared to all of them. It should be obvious to everyone at this point that Bush is a token president who couldn't possibly have any original thoughts or intiatives to lead this governemnt with . . no concept of what his job really is. Other than what Rove tells him every day.

[Demonaut]

97. cheney

lost...Edwards won but went too easy on the animated corpse.

[sampsonblk]

99. Cheney - but I stopped watching halfway through

Unless Edwards did something after I stopped watching, then I say Cheney won handily.

I think though that some of us have the wrong focus. This isn't a baseball game. If Cheney "wins" the debate and loses a few swing voters, I'll be fine with that. And it remains to be seen how non-partisans viewed the debate. (I don't matter, but they sure do.)

Cheney seemed to be more comfortable with the details - especially on foreign policy. I don't consider that important at all. As Kerry says, you can be certain and wrong. Cheney was certain on every single point, but what has that led to so far? Friggin disaster.

I am hoping the voters will see through the aesthetic advantage Cheney had (my opinion) and instead consider that this guy has had almost 4 years to get it right, and he has screwed up so bad that it may take decades to correct the problems.

[Only Me]

100. Edwards, it was not contest in my opinion. n/t

[Cat Atomic]

102. Honestly? I've got to give it to Cheney.

Cheney was calm and focussed. Sure, he sprinkled lies and distortions throughout the evening, but since when does that matter?

Edwards did pretty good, but he came off as too anxious, I think. He also has a very polished "I'm a politician" air about him that I think showed through this evening.

They had a good back and forth, and it was certainly alot closer than the first Kerry/Bush debate, but on the whole I'd have to give it to Cheney.

[ogradda]

103. edwards won

o yes indeedy.

[dryan]

108. Edwards

[Artemis Bunyon]

104. It's difficult to say.

Cheney projected gravitas and seriousness, Edwards projected humanity and charm. Cheney dominated from the start. Edwards had good finish. 50/50

[La Lioness Priyanka]

106. edwards won marginally

cheney was far more erudite than bush. but in my opinion edwards was also more candid than kerry.

[txindy]

109. Edwards

He answered all the questions in detail, while Cheney avoided and ducked and dodged and flat-out ignored so many.

Dick came off like the evil creature of the night he really is and John Edwards came across as the promise of the future -- a future only a month away. Now, which would I choose? Hmmmm.... :smoke:

[JerseygirlCT]

111. It was tough. I think, bottom line, that Edwards was rather like

a man swimming with a hungry shark. He left unscathed, and that says it all.

Cheney's lies aren't being confronted enough, and couldn't be confronted enough last night (you did, no I didn't, yes, you did). That leaves his lying looking like it's a "he said, he said" situation -- one of opinion instead of fact. That hurts us, I think.

On the other hand, after trumpeting his own years of experience, and Edwards' lack thereof, Cheney surely didn't behave like an experienced debator.

I think Edwards did well, but this one wasn't out of the park like last week. And that's probably ok -- sets up Kerry for Friday night. If he should manage to pull that one off, too I think it could be looking very, very good for us.

[Forkboy]

112. The TWINS!!!!

Oh,sorry...wrong event :shrug:

[ObaMania]

113. draw

IMO. Edwards had opportunity to hit 'im and pulled a Lieberman.

[tranche]

114. Agreed - yet fact checking my sink Cheney

Now that the fact checking of Cheney is trickling out he may lose in the end, but I think if you're a Cheney supporter you walk away happy, if your an Edwards supporter you walk away happy. Draw.

[GinaMaria]

115. All Kerry/Edwards needed

was a draw or at least not to disrupt the momentum the ticket has had since last week's debate. Edwards more than succeeded.

Cheney wasn't going to be as easy as bush, but Edwards more than held his own. He came across positive, backed Kerry way more than Cheney backed bush. Cheney lies so easily that what he says could be percieved as truth and this is where Cheney scored. He may pay for it post debate if people look into things like the 'I never met you before tonight bs'.

Edwards gave it back to him, didn't back down and didn't look nervous. Though he was less experienced, Edwards didn't show it in debating skills. Lastly, Edwards had the line to end Cheney's rhetoric... A long resume doesn't equal good decision making or something like that.

It wasn't as exciting as the first prez debate last week, but it had some tension.

Edwards and Kerry have emerged clear winners.

[stevedeshazer]

116. Who lost? Gwen Ifill

She was awful.

Edwards beat Cheney decisively on the facts, but Cheney didn't flounder nearly as much as Bush did last Thursday.

Several posters here mentioned nervousness on the part of Edwards. I just didn't see that at all. Can you guys elaborate on this? If I've missed something I want to know, but Edwards seemed confident to me.

Cheney looked like Jabba the Hut.

[MISSDem]

117. Edwards

I thought he was great, especially considering this was his first debate. And debating someone like Cheney who has been around political stuff like this for years and years. And on top of what he said, What a doll!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

118. Edwards

because I thought he was more honest and more personable than Cheney. Both Cheney and Edwards have good debating skills. Cheney is obviously the one in control of this administration. He was able to talk and not sound like a moron, unlike Bush.

[ProfessorGAC]

119. Edwards, But He Didn't Administer A Beating

Kerry beat Li'l Georgie like a rented mule. This was more a majority decision due to better command of facts. It was substance outpointing style, but the prez debate was both.
The Professor

[w4rma]

120. Edwards, big time. And, no he didn't look nervous. He looked pissed

and surpised that Cheney would lie to his face so blatantly and in front of so many people for about 30mins. Then he just looked pissed as he tore through Cheney's talking points immediately after he said them.

And Cheney just gave up for the last 20 mins of the debate. He didn't even respond to Edwards anymore, like he was conceding the election right there but was going through the motions expected of him.

[crissy71]

122. Edwards - no question "Shreck vs Breck"

[Cats Against Frist]

123. I have to say that I thought Edwards won

and I was watching MSNBC, and those people came on and said Cheney nailed him to the wall, blah, blah, blah -- my hair stood on end, and I watched Ron Reagan go "Bu...Eh...Whaa?" and then I immediately changed the channel to flip to the other stations, where it was either Edwards, by a nose, or a draw. Then, this morning the newspaper editorials CONFIRMED what I THOUGHT I saw during the debate. Many newspapers are giving Edwards the edge this morning.

I thought the debate was engaging, fantastic -- I thought Cheney lied fairly masterfully, and that Edwards was ready, quick, articulate -- and displayed the right balance of attack and seriousness. I thought Cheney was going to blow him out of the water, honestly, and John stood (sat) up there with DICK FUCKING CHENEY and held his own and then some. Edwards was knocked back by a few cheap shots -- based on blatant lies, and missed a couple of opportunities.

Subjectively, I can see how some would call this a draw. It seemed to be the debate where "people saw what they wanted to see," to some extent -- at least us, the Freepers and the pundits. I have the feeling, however, on the other hand, that Edwards played MUCH MUCH MUCH better to the American public, as a whole, and that the spin coming off of this is tie or Edwards with the edge.

And, according to Chris Matthews, at the beginning of the night: that's exactly what he needed to do, and even a tie was a win for John Edwards.

That panel has to feel pretty stupid. I saw a tired Matthews stick to his guns, today -- but it was like one sentence, and then he started launching in on Cheney's lies -- but also, didn't really correct a couple of others.

I was disappointed in the Newsweek guy, and the Boston Globe Guy on the panel -- but I expected a draw would be a Cheney win for Matthews and Scarborough, despite what they said, before the debate -- and Mitchell and the other brown-haired man with glasses are usually "yes men & women."

Anyway, enough about them, but it was a significant experience for me, because I was like WHAT THE FUCK? When they started saying Cheney won. The only people saying that this morning are the Freepers, the Bush campaign, the NRO, and a few conservative newspaper columnists. Surprise.

For me, Edwards was better, because I believe what he says, I know that no matter what hurdles that Rove and Hughes try to put up to make them stumble over, that Kerry and Edwards are the better men, the better leaders, the SMARTER leaders -- and not a couple of Chickenhawks.

Edwards went toe-to-toe with Cheney. Everyone thought Cheney would rule. At worst, for Edwards, it was a draw -- which means that Edwards won, either way.

The Chimp's mulligan speech this afternoon was pathetic, and his veneer is wearing very thin. Cheney had to pull it out of the bag, to make up for Bush's terrible and idiotic debate performance -- he didn't. And Kerry will clean up the rest of this.

[ThomCat]

124. Edwards by a nose

Because Cheney was very good at working lies into long droning answers where people could miss them.

Because Cheney was very good at sounding like he believed what he said.

With Bush, any moron should have been able to see that he lost. But with Cheney you have to know what he's talking about, and my concern was that most people don't know.

So I was worried. I'm glad that the polls are showing I was wrong.