Tempers are showing in Florida. I can understand.

[madfloridian]

We have had two thunderstorms today already, heavy rain. We are not low-lying, but a friend called. They experienced flooding in their home today, after Frances is gone. A couple of our neighbors who live alone are getting so edgy and tense we are worried. This article refers to Ft. Pierce and other parts of Florida. Even the news anchors are getting worried looks. I just saw a Tampa station say that people were calling frantically about when power would be restored.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040908/NEWS/409080421/1039

SNIP..."Tempers Ignite as Victims Return Home

By JILL BARTON
The Associated Press

FORT PIERCE -- Thousands of residents desperate to return home after fleeing Hurricane Frances ignored Florida's plea to stay put Tuesday, jamming highways, delaying emergency workers and causing tempers to flare in the sticky heat.

One man was so desperate for ice that he shot the lock off a freezer. Fights broke out in some places. Drivers waited for hours to fill up their gas tanks. More than 1,000 cars coiled around several blocks in Stuart as a distribution center watched over by National Guardsmen offered water, ice and ready-to-eat meals.....

[GumboYaYa]

1. Good luck. The worst part of a hurricane can be the aftermath.

Americans are so soft that a few days without A/C can be unbearable for many. Unfortunately, it looks like it may be awhile before many of you get electricity.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. You can get seriously ill down here without air conditioning.

It's in the 90's almost all the time this time of year.

[GumboYaYa]

19. I lived a summer in New Orleans without A/C.

I know hot. Unfortunately when the hurricanes hit, you have to learn to deal with it, but it does suck.

[Pallas180]

28. Gumbo.."you hve to learn to deal with it"-you should consider Europe last

summer, when they had a heat wave, and Europeans do not normally have
that kind of heat or air conditioned homes...thousands - THOUSANDS died.

In Florida where a friend of mine has named it " God's Waiting Room", the
elderly who almost universally have heart conditions causing shortness of
breath even with air conditioning, cannot "learn to deal with it". Their
heart and lungs aren't up to dealing.

Average daily temperature in Southern Florida is 92 with heavy choking humidity and no breeze or air movement.

Without air conditioning or electric power for fans to force air to move,
the undertakers in Florida will be doing a brisk business.

[GumboYaYa]

31. Sorry, of course I know the dangers of heat to the elderly and infirm.

My comment was directed towards the many many people I have seen in their thirties and forties on the news about to go bezerk b/c they have no electricity. Living after a hurricane requires massive patience, I have had to do it several times. That is all that I meant.

[Pallas180]

35. Okey Dokey.... :)

never mind the downed trees around here that make it look like a hurricane or tornado hit....or the shingles lying all over lawns - or the
persistent rain and thunder storms (Frances is the guest you can't get rid of); the anxiety of being without electric power...of streets unlit,and people sitting in dark shuttered houses, of the potential of looters, of no water in the house, or water unsafe to drink,of no hot food or coffee cause 98 percent of all houses here are totally electric, of hundreds of dollars of food gone bad in each freezer and refrigerator, of many people being unprepared with canned food in the house, of fear of the unimaginable category 4 storm Ivan heading this way, after most, including me, had no idea how bad the category 2 Frances would be and unsure if their roofs would stay on their houses; adds up to a great deal of tension and worry.......and the knowledge that there is no place to go - because you can't get gas to get out of the state.

BTW - the news is that Ivan has destroyed 90% of the houses on Granada.

Of course, for those who dont know, there are no cellars in Florida. If a tornado or a wild hurricane hits, you're supposed to go into your bathtub and pull a mattress over your body.

Not like Dorothy and Toto, huh?


:hi:

[GumboYaYa]

36. I completely empathize.

I can remember cowering in a closet as 175 mph winds pounded my apartment, not knowing whether I would see the next morning.

You guys are getting hammerred right now. One bad hurricane is a tremendous test of the human spirit. You see the worst of people and the best of people. I can only imagine how horrendous multiple hits would be.

Good luck.

[JCMach1]

2. MY family got power back today, but most people won't for the

better part of the week.

There will be no school in Putnam County until at least Monday.

[madfloridian]

4. I know you are worried about your folks, Jerald.

In this heat going days without power is unbearable. I think our bodies are acclimated to air conditioning now, actually physically addicted to it. Or houses are not set up to be without it very long.

[cheezus]

3. I feel for you man, after the flood of 97

the mental illness rate went WAAAY up.

[Adamocrat]

5. The article neglected to mention...

that Fort Pierce is the armpit of the world.

I have relatives there, and there is no industry. There are no jobs. There is no hope for people who live there. No wonder they're angry when their basic necessities are taken away from them.

Yet they continue to vote Republicon. Go figure.

-A

[progressivebydesign]

6. I know the authorities were begging people not to travel back there..

..for that very reason. BUT.. I wonder if there were any adequate shelters for those people out of the area??? How about the people who were too poor to leave? I would not head back into that situation if I had somewhere safe and relatively comfortable to be... but I don't think there were adequate shelters set up out of Florida. Does anyone know if this was the case?

[madfloridian]

13. FEMA has cut back a lot on pre-planning and funding.

I have a feeling that the poor really had no place to go.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

7. They still don't have their power back on there?

In Naples, we still are having problems with runing out of gas, etc. We didn't have a problem with the power going out this time - thank God.

[Adamocrat]

9. Naples is relatively affluent...

Fort Pierce is impoverished.

There's a big difference.

-A

[Pallas180]

30. No gas on the East Coast of Florida either - something funny about that

as if, when they knew the hurricane was coming they stopped releasing gas from Port Everglades and Tampa/Jacksonville.

Was that to keep the people in Florida ?

Or to impress the populace of the US of the importance of oil?

What gives with that?

Anyone have an idea?

[phylny]

34. You need electricity

to pump gas off of barges into tanks, from tanks into trucks, from trucks into stations, and from stations into cars. In addition, they may have had to put the barges someplace safe until the hurricane passed.

No conspiracy here.

[Pallas180]

41. Know what I heard? That they were refusing to take gas out of storage

tanks for fear the tanks would collapse.

I know nothing about oil/gas storage tanks, but it does seem stupid
to me to store them in something that you cannot empty.

Duh.

[phylny]

44. In all honesty,

this doesn't make much sense. Gasoline storage tanks are routinely emptied and filled, in all kinds of weather. There's a huge refinery in the midst of tornado alley in Illinois, and they empty and fill tanks all the time.

The simple fact remains that without electricity, gasoline cannot be pumped. So, if your neighborhood or county doesn't have electricity, neither do terminals.

Not to sound snippy, because I experienced Hurricane Isabel in Virginia last year, but there's a reason that officials tell you to gas up your car before a hurricane. We put gas in all three cars and in two approved containers, just in case. It just takes time for things to get back to normal.

[madfloridian]

46. You are very casual about it. This is not a normal recovery. Wrong!

There is just too much not right about it. Of course we know how to prepare for hurricanes, but stuff ran out before the FIRST one to hit us head on. They had 3 weeks to replenish. They did NOT replenish properly.

There is no excuse for that. They have cut back on funding for FEMA under the radar. They are relying mostly on faith-based initiatives. The problem is my friend, that right now we are the blind leading the blind.

It is a good thing to have neighbors help each other, but guess what!! If you don't have anything left, you can't. There is a lot of that going around here these days.

There is more going on here than meets the eye unless you are here and really listening to folks. You don't sound snippy. I just detect condescension. So come on down and help us out here! You are so welcome.

All our neighbors have debris-filled yards, downed trees, damaged roofs, and no one to fix them. Part of that is normal, but there should be more help on the way. I keep hearing about it, where is it? We are so very lucky, but a block away may not be. If I have power, the neighbors across the street should have it. All the lines are up, no trees on the lines. Trees are still on roofs from Charley.

[phylny]

48. Mad,

I think you're yelling at the wrong person, and I am never condescending. I'm merely responding to the question about gasoline. I have not addressed the other difficult miseries that people are unfortunately dealing with.

I will not respond in kind to your remarks. Again, having cleaned up after Isabel last year with no water for five days, I wish you good luck and best wishes.

[dmr]

49. There was a gasoline shortage BEFORE Frances hit

Believe me, Floridians know the drill, but if the gas isn't there, they are stuck without, through no fault of their own.

[phylny]

50. I understand that,

and if you have no electricity, terminals don't either. If you have trouble getting around, so do they.

Here's what I can do, though - I can stop the conjecture and ask someone I know who works in the industry and will have direct knowledge about what's going on. I'll post on it tomorrow.

Again, I wish you the best in your struggles during this difficult time in Florida.

[Pallas180]

54. PHYLNY - you dont get it. There was gas in terminals & electricity. They

refused to empty or pump out gas to tankers.

THERE WAS ELECTICITY.

Get what we're saying?

[phylny]

58. Yes, I get it.

Then it's obviously a conspiracy by the compannies to force the price higher in Florida.

Is it price at the pump higher now?

If so, then they're dastardly. If not, then something else is going on, because they don't make money when they don't deliver and sell.

[Pallas180]

52. MADFLO- exactly - there was no reason for our electric to be out - but

it was....for 3 1/2 days. As a matter of fact it went out before the
storm hit...and the lines were up - no trees on them - outside our community - while inside the lines were underground....some houses never lost power in the community, while the rest did.... huh?

really some weird stuff going on...

did you catch dimson handing ice through car windows for the photo op?

And most people didn't seem thrilled. Didn't see anyone get out of the
car, or lean over real excited.

[madfloridian]

56. Something is just not right. I can not get a handle.

Of course two hurricanes in one month is not normal either, but we started hearing about gas shortages before Charley. FEMA flew in water to the Tampa Airport 5 days AFTER Charley hit.

They knew Charley was going to hit. Why did it take FEMA that long to ship the water. Then some of the trucks did not have gas to get to Punta Gorda.

People in outlying areas or just out of the city part can not leave their homes unattended because of damage that would allow looting. In many cases there is no one coming to help them. How can we find out these things? Our Ledger is doing a good job, but it is not covering all those who are without.

[Pallas180]

53. They would not release the gas BEFORE the hurricane and the excuse

given was that the tanks would implode.

People were not able to get enough gas to make it up I 95. And the stations on the highway were out of gas or running out of gas, and they
refused to send out tankers. BEFORE THERE WAS NO ELECTRICITY.

So you tell them that that's bushit.

[Blue Wally]

64. Large POL tanks.....

Are like large tin cans. Take a large orange juice can. Full, it is stable. Empty it blows over easily. The POL tanks are very vulnerable when empty. The barges and tankers which resupply the Port Everglades tank farms were prevented from entering the port (port closed on Thursday). In addition, the close approach of Frances had the seas in the area pretty stirred up.

[loudsue]

10. So much of this should fall in the Bush's Laps!!

Shrub for sending so many of our National Guard troops to Iraq, and Jeb for mismanaging and failing to lead in such a way that emergency preparedness (ESPECIALLY in such a hurricane-prone area) is in chaos.

When are people going to STOP allowing the bush family to lead this country?? They're ALL BAD LUCK, and they're all INCOMPETENT!!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[Striker Lestat]

11. They got nailed twice..

Martial law may have to be implimented if it hasn't been already.

[Misunderestimator]

23. LOL... Martial Law... would that excite you or something?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gothmog]

12. Good luck

Hurricanes are hard to recover from. Florida has been hit twice and Ivan may be headed that way.

[yardwork]

14. I'm sorry for what you are going through!

I live in North Carolina. We have been hit by several hurricanes in recent years. People don't understand how difficult it is until they live through it themselves.

The heat, the insects, the lack of water, the lack of refrigeration, the lack of basic necessities, the inability to sleep, dealing with frantic tired children, the isolation, having your possessions destroyed, and not being able to do anything about it - it gets to people.

It's not that Americans are "soft" - it's that buildings are no longer designed to handle lack of air conditioning. People can't leave their windows open because of crime, especially when the electricity is out and there are no streetlights or porchlights.

There are good things that come out of it, though! Neighbors sometimes bond and get to know one another. There are heart-lifing stories of heroism and random acts of kindness. It helped sensitize me to how people live in most of the world, especially in war zones.

I hope that things get better for you soon. Thank you for posting here.

[dmr]

51. What you say is so true

but you forgot one more thing. LOOTERS!

Sadly, they are out there. After Hurricane Andrew hit South Dade County in '92, families had to deal with its aftermath during the day, then take turns at night patroling their property. I am sure this is happening now in Florida. There is no peaceful rest.

The devastation of a Hurricane is immense, not just to property, but psychological. Without going into details, my best friend shot and killed himself 4 months later. That is one Andrew casualty I am still trying to get over.

[skypilot]

15. Question.

Has there been any talk about the National Guard? Didn't Jeb sign an exective order in Sept.2001 that would bring in the NG in situations like Florida is experiencing right now? Two hurricanes and a third possibly on the way...

[Blue Wally]

17. I posted on another thread.........

The Florida national Guard has three infantry battalions. All three battalions were mustered on Sunday and are on acive duty for post-Francis security and humanitarian aid missions. None are in Iraq at this time (though all have pulled tours there).

[skypilot]

20. Thanks. I hadn't heard.

*

[madfloridian]

21. During Charley, I heard the guy in charge say 2000 were in mideast.

Hubby heard it also. He said there were 8000 Florida troops, about a thousand in Iraq and 1000 in Afghanistan. He said that left 6000 and 4000 were deployed during Charley.

Did they bring them home from overseas since Charley 3 weeks ago? This guy was the head of the Florida National Guard, and we both heard him.

I wonder now if they brought them home out of necessity here? We really need them for sure.

[RivetJoint]

22. According to the Tampa Tribune

The Florida NG has 12,000 members; 10,000 NG and 2,000 ANG. Of that, 2,000 are deployed out of state.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5686637/

[Blue Wally]

27. The three infantry battalions

Amount to about 2400 men. They are the combat lelement of the Natl Guard Brigade. There are other units in the FLNG which may still be deployed overseas (signal, transportation, military police, etc). A state national guard is composed of very many different units. If you want security from looters, the three infantry battalions (and MP units) are the best.

[Tsiyu]

29. Proof?

Not to be picky, but are you in the Guard? And to others posting about heat. Elderly and children do not have the normal adult's ability to regulate body temp. It isn't a question of being "soft" but of being the way things are in the human lifespan.

[Pallas180]

33. The National Guard and Fema are here - although you dont see

much of them...nor are we seeing much of the police - there are very few
working street traffic lights, although more are coming on, but there are
no police to direct traffic nor guardsmen..

They may all be on the barrier islands or intercoastal and beach areas
where there are multi million dollar residences..

[ocean girl]

83. I live in Highland Beach and we have lights, water, cable...

My father lives in West Palm Beach and he has none of the above. Coincidence? I'd rather he have it - he's 81 and quite ill but his compassionate neighbor, who has power, ran an extension cord across his yard to give him power to his refrigerator. Since he's a WWII Battle of the Bulge veteran, he's too tough to leave his blistering hot house and bunk with me in my condo!

BTW, I've been all over Palm Beach County since Frances and I've only seen ONE National Guard truck and almost all of the traffic lights are OFF. It's actually quite dangerous to drive around, but since most of the gas stations have no gas, there's not much driving to do.

We can pretty much forget fleeing from Ivan because there's little gas to drive out of the state with.

As a native Floridian since 1950, this weather ain't normal!

Anyone in Palm Beach County that needs ice or water, PM me and I'll get some to you.

PEACE.

[shanti]

16. and ivan is on his way

i feel for ya, man:-(

[Sentinel]

32. At Least Nine Killed by Hurricane Ivan

ST. GEORGE'S, Grenada (AP) - Hurricane Ivan made a direct hit on Grenada with ferocious winds, causing ``incalculable damage'' and killing at least nine people as it turned concrete homes into rubble and hurled hundreds of the island's landmark red zinc roofs through the air, officials said Wednesday.

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/weather/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1102&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040908%2F1516719255.htm&sc=1102&photoid=20040908BRB101

[madfloridian]

18. Just found a friend who has had no power, also our doctor's office a mess.

Hubby stopped by her home on the way back from the store, and she was on her way for more canned goods. She works for our doctor, and she said part of the roof had blown away....a real mess.

We are finding out more and more gradually just how bad it was.

[quaker bill]

37. I was lucky

Charley ripped my neighborhood up so badly that Frances made very little difference. Instead of the 50 or 60 trees down after Charley we only had three new windthrows in the neighborhood after Frances. We had our power back up in 36 hours and water came back on a day later.

However, Frances is not done with us yet. There is a large wave of water working it's way downstream in the St. Johns River. It will crest and cause major flooding locally on Saturday or Sunday.

I am high and dry but alot of people are likely to take another hit.

[madfloridian]

39. Flooding has been so bad. Pic of a horse in a pasture.

I had not heard about the St. Johns at all. I know Tampa had a tremendous amount of flooding, and low-lying areas inland did as well.

[Cha]

43. I feel for you guys down there in Florida!

We were in Hurricane, Iniki, in '92 on Kauai and didn't have electricity for months, afterwards.

Just pure devastion..but amazingly..

"Just 2 people died during
the storm, but it flattened
1,200 homes and damaged 11,700"

"The number of deaths was remarkably small. Just two Kauai residents died during the storm: Patricia Thomas, 79, of Kapaa, died of a heart attack after her house collapsed. Eleodoro Garcia, 77, of Kilauea, was killed by flying debris."


More @..
http://starbulletin.com/2002/09/08/news/story6.html

People can be killed after the hurricane, too..

"Air National Guardsman Dennis Dalen, 46, of Hickam Air Force Base, was killed during storm cleanup on Kauai's north shore when the truck he was driving flipped as he tried to avoid live power wires."

[Pallas180]

57. Hey Zidzi, I was in Hawaii and Maui in 92 - especially

Maui was magnificent, and I must have missed the hurricane, thank goodness...

[SW FL Dem]

38. I understand too!

We got hit by Charley, no power or cable for 36 hours, but we were lucky. Frances cost us a tree in the front yard. We know we have suffered far less than millions of others, but now we are once again on edge waiting for the updates on Ivan which is projected to be within 40 miles of our shoreline by early Monday. We haven't been able to relax for almost a month now. We've boarded up north half of the house to protect us from Frances. Tomorrow, I head out to try to get plywood to protect the other side of the house, since Ivan is coming from the south and west. I really feel for the folks in central FL, they may not get power before Ivan hits. Everyone is frazzled and stressed. Enough already.

[madfloridian]

40. A friend who is a doctor said people were extremely stressed.

He said they were angy, irritable, and ready to fight about anything. I believe him. I have felt that way a lot this week.

It seems like all the normalcy of living is gone. And there is more to come.

I have no patience with watching the TV spin, either. Not on any subject.

Tonight on Norville, for example, some guy who had lost a son in Iraq said Bush would help us finish the mission, or words to that effect. I yelled at the TV..."WHAT mission!?"

My poor hubby was upset with me, but reality is bad enough. I can not stand lies on top of the reality of hurricanes.

[Cha]

45. You poor things!

After our hurricane on Kauai there was no electricity for months so we had nothing but Nature to contend with.

We were super stressed, too..I called it P.I.S.S. for Post Iniki Stress Syndrome!

[madfloridian]

47. Then we have P.C.F.S. S. which is worse than P.I.S. S.

:evilgrin:

Good one, Zidzi.

[Pallas180]

42. OK. Luck and Safety to us all - n/t

.

[Southsideirish]

55. A co-worker's dad just moved to Port Charlotte 3 months ago -

he is in his 70s. Now they say they might get hit again!

[Kanary]

59. The situation is bad, and stress is inevitable and horrible.. however.....

I completely empathize, and know what you all are going through is terrible.

However.... it's time to realize just what some other citizens are going through, without support, or any kind of understanding.

People on disability are being reviewed, and held in limbo FOR MONTHS, not knowing if they will be cut off with no support. They are told they will be given an answer in 90 days..... for most it is 6 MONTHS. Being cut off doesn't mean they will be without ice, or gas, or power -- it means they will be without 'EVERYTHING. Yet, they are not given support or understanding. They are expected to remain on an even keel, and pleasant and completely in control at all times. If they lose their temper, they will be punished.

There are thousands now who are facing losing their Section 8 homes. There is nothing available for them to go to when they are out of their homes.... Section 8 has huge waiting lists. Many are elderly, disabled, single mothers of oung children who are trying to get their lives together. They don't get articles written about them, or help from the Red CRoss. They are living with unimaginable anxiety, and again, must maintain calm at all costs.

I hope that the awful conditions being faced now in Florida give the residents of that state some compassion for those who are facing other horrible consequences, without support or care.

If we were all able to come together to care for and support each other, this would be a very different society.

Kanary

[FlemingsGhost]

60. No power or basic services in half of Iraq--over a year, now.

In 115 degree heat. And Americans unravel after a week.

Nothing against Floridians, personally. Just providing some perspective ...

[T Town Jake]

61. "Perspective"?...most decent people call that "rudeness"...

This is a thread about the people suffering right now in Florida, not your "perspective."

[FlemingsGhost]

62. One man's "suffering" is another man's inconvenience.

Rude or not, when someone laments that cable television was out for 36 hours, some "perspective" is needed.

[T Town Jake]

63. That's rich...it really is...and utterly repulsive...

...I don't see many "laments" about lack of access to "cable television" being expressed in this thread, but more mundane concerns like electricity, and access to the necessities of everyday life. Jeez Louise, you should get a clue. There is a time and a place for lecturing people on the conveniences of everyday life they enjoy that you seem to disdain. A thread dedicated to supporting Hurricane survivors is not one of them.

[FlemingsGhost]

66. You are easily repulsed, friend.

"Suffering" was your word. It is a relative term. Not having electricity is hardly suffering, in my opinion. It is an inconvenience.

I want nothing more than for the folks in Florida to return to "normalcy." Really, I do. Natural disasters suck, and I've seen them all. Earthquakes, a tornando and many hurricanes (Gloria, Andrew, stand out.) Through it all, not once did I get into a fist fight, or blow the lock off of a freezer.

A month from now, most of the citizens of Florida will be back to their everyday routines. But Iraqis will still be living under the conditions some Floridians are have such difficulty coping with. And the best time and place to remind one of that fact, is when they can empathize. Now.

(edited for clarity)

[T Town Jake]

68. Ahem: "I want nothing more than for the folks in Florida...

...to return to 'normalcy.' Really, I do." Really? It sure shows in your posts, doesn't it?...(snicker)...just a regular Mother Theresa-humanitarian, spreading sweetness and light, you are...




On edit: minor grammar correction.

[FlemingsGhost]

69. Something in your throat?

I attacked no one. I addressed the topic of this thread.

What exactly "shows" in my posts?

[FlemingsGhost]

67. By the way, this thread is entitled "Tempers showing ..."

"A thread dedicated to supporting Hurricane survivors is not one of them."

I'll be sure not to post my thoughts in that thread.

[Blue Wally]

65. I think.....

That the loss of cable television was just a report of what damage had occurred and how quickly it was restored not a complaint or a lament. In a sense, we compare notes with each other to determine the extent of the damages.

[FlemingsGhost]

70. How are you going watch cable, if there is no power?

I found it odd that the poster (#38) made it point to specifically mention cable television, that's all.

[Ripley]

75. Cable TV is what most Americans are used to for getting

the most up-to-date, accurate visual information about tornadoes, more rain bands, flooding and especially aid and repairs after a storm like this.

I've gone through severe weather without a TV and the radio gave me shit for information. Why do you twist what the person was saying to make it sounds like she was complaining about not being able to watch Oprah or something?

[Misunderestimator]

72. I suppose you'd lecture a rape victim by pointing out how much better

her situation is than it would be in Iraq, where she might be murdered by her family after the rape. Or an abused child by pointing out to him/her that the situation is much better since in Iraq children are crippled and killed by our bombs.

What kind of perspective are you trying to offer here?

[chopper]

73. uh...

nice metaphor. telling floridians that not having power for a few days isn't as bad as they may think is *just* like lecturing a rape victim or an abused child.

all you need to do is compare him to Hitler, and you 'hit the trifecta'. yeesh.

[Misunderestimator]

74. Excuse me? I was pointing out how he was comparing suffering here

to suffering in Iraq, the same thing he did. I think my analogy was quite appropriate. The degrees of suffering in each example are different, but the point is that it makes no sense to criticize anyone for the way they react to it.

Should people not even talk about the hurricanes and the damage? Just because my house wasn't leveled doesn't mean that I don't have a right to talk about the experience. Sure... it's much more difficult in Iraq, and we talk about that daily here. No one is saying that Floridians are suffering more than Iraqis. And it's an insult to make the comparison.

[Ripley]

77. This isn't the first time.

I've had this go-round with a few other DUers before. I remember one person saying some fat hillbilly repuke in Florida didn't have a right to bitch about eating cold sandwiches for 4 days when people in Fallujah were dying.

Nice huh?

[Misunderestimator]

78. Thanks for the prop :) It's amazing how people want to compare

degrees of suffering. I really don't get it at all. Unless it's just contrariness. :shrug:

[Ripley]

79. I guess they're those

"Blame America First Types." :evilgrin:

[soup]

71. It may get worse before it gets better.

With the possibility of Ivan approaching, plywood is at a premium. My husband spoke with someone yesterday who'd been at Home Depot at 6 a.m. because this time they're not taking any chances and are boarding up and getting out of town. By 6:30 a.m., that particular Home Depot was sold out of plywood.

Gas is still in short supply. Groceries could become a problem, too.

-----

Rush is on to replenish state's fuel supplies

With Ivan looming as another possible interruption, Gov. Bush says all efforts are being made to get retailers' pumps flowing again.

By Associated Press
Published September 9, 2004

TAMPA - With Florida experiencing short supplies of gasoline and diesel fuel and the looming threat of Hurricane Ivan, Gov. Jeb Bush said Wednesday that fuel companies are rushing to build up the state's reserves.

Touring a Citgo terminal at the Port of Tampa, Bush said such shortages are to be expected as residents heed evacuation warnings. Hurricane Frances, which claimed at least 15 lives in Florida, also interrupted ship traffic around the state and caused ports to close for several days.>snip<

So much gas was consumed as millions of the state's residents fled Hurricane France's path that gas stations as far north as South Carolina were out of fuel.

Shortages were further exacerbated because some regular supply routes were blocked by storm damage and many gas stations lacked electricity to run pumps.
http://sptimes.com/2004/09/09/State/Rush_is_on_to_repleni.shtml

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Milk may be scarce on shelves

Power failures destroyed groceries' perishables, and winds blocked deliveries of replacements. But the shortages are temporary.

By HELEN HUNTLEY, Times Personal Finance Editor
Published September 9, 2004

Milk, eggs and other perishables remained in short supply Wednesday as grocery stores labored to restock shelves in the wake of Hurricane Frances.

The temporary shortage is the result of distribution delays and a surge in demand.>snip<

Publix and many other companies pull delivery trucks off the road when winds hit 40 mph, which they did for much of Monday, even after the storm had moved offshore. High winds are particularly dangerous for big trailers.

While winds disrupted delivery, power outages created artificial shortages. Many grocery stores were forced to dump food for safety reasons after the power failed and temperatures rose in frozen and refrigerated food cases.
http://sptimes.com/2004/09/09/Business/Milk_may_be_scarce_on.shtml

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Odd- just noticed the article on the gas supply problems doesn't even mention the end of Florida's gas tax holiday on August 31st as a contributing factor. People lining up to take advantage of the last day of the tax holiday was mentioned in earlier articles as one of the reasons for shortage.

Maybe they don't want to emphasize that particular lack of foresight?

[lectrobyte]

76. Good luck, this one is not looking too nice either...

[phylny]

80. GAS: As promised, I asked some questions regarding

gasoline in Florida. Don't shoot the messenger - this is just the info I've gotten and have passed along. Yes, it could be wrong, but I think it's reasonably accurate. This isn't specific to a single provider, but a general report on what was happening in the region.

Supply was most likely low in the area as the hurricane was approaching. Demand was great (Floridians were doing their part by filling up in advance of the hurricane) and the tanks, while full, weren't as full as they would have liked. So, I was probably wrong in saying that they *didn't* want the tanks full - they did, but they were unable to fill them with as much as they wanted, to ward against collapse. To whomever stated that, you were correct. Just saying that they weren't full to the brim because they simply didn't have the supply on hand.

The barges were secured and at some point when it was no longer safe to pump and deliver, they had to shut down and stopped delivery to keep employees and other people safe. You surely don't want a tanker or barge accident with millions of gallons of gasoline spilled during a hurricane, tornado, or lightning storm.

When electricity returned, transfer of product began. In many cases, roads were blocked and the state police provided escorts to trucks delivering product.

This was NOT specifically stated to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were problems securing the workforce to deliver - again, this part is conjecture, but it's possible some drivers and other personnel were stuck at home or evacuated, thereby slowing down the delivery of product.

So, don't shoot the messenger, and maybe your experiences are vastly different, but this is the info I discovered today.

Having said this, with a mother-in-law in Martin County whom we haven't spoken to yet, and a niece not far from there who is also having difficulty, I hope all of you in Florida get the help you need, and that you get WHAT you need soon.

[Katarina]

81. We got power back tonight

Hi everyone! Whew! What a week. 4 boys and 4 dogs with no power = headache for mom. LOL! I have to say though we handled it pretty well. I had cooked 2 roasts and fried a chicken before the storm along with a cake and some cupcakes. We lost power Sunday morning around 8am. Managed to save the pork chops in the freezer and made pork stir fry Monday night. Besides that, I lost everything else in my big chest freezer and my refrigerator. Tip for everyone - if you have a turkey fryer, you can use the bottom part that you sit the pot on to cook with. I used my wok on it, my stainless steel and my non-stick and all of it survived! The national guard was wonderful about supplying us with ice, water and MRE's. Thanks go out to them all. They were a blessing during a very dark five days. The only casualty to our property was the mailbox deciding to take a trip during one of the 70mph gusts but we finally located it down the street in a ditch. One more tip - cards! They were the one thing my kids played with constantly. I've played more go-fish this week than I ever did as a child. And puzzles. I had a few in my closet from my earlier life (before children) and the older ones had fun with those. Anyhoo, just wanted to say hi to everyone. I totally missed DU. I would have used my sons laptop but we even lost phone service until last night. Now I just have to get caught up on all the news I've missed since I've been in the dark. I hope everyone get's power restored soon and hope Ivan goes the hell away from us! (crossing fingers)

[madfloridian]

82. Glad your power is back.

Ours was intermittent, but we just never knew when it would go out. Two days later it was still going out as trees fell and pulled down wires.

I am tired of hurricanes!