WHY ARE AMERICANS SO DUMB?

[MaryH]

I just don't get it. Is it something about our culture? Is it that we just don't regard education very highly?

How can people look at anything (anything at all) that Bush has done and not see that it was completely screwed up?

The economy is a mess and getting worse - today Greenspan talked about the need to cut benefits so babyboomers would have some protection for retirement and healthcare.

45 million people don't have health care.

Millions more and living below the poverty line.

We have a stupid war going on that is costing us our future.

And still people think Bush is wonderful.

I am just clueless as to why anyone would vote for that man.

[babylon_system]

1. Militarist governments prefer smart bombs to smart people

Public education is a form of socialism. Dumb voters are more easily manipulated to vote against their interests.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. WHY ARE WE ALL YELLING TODAY?

*sigh*

Taking a break :grouphug:

[shance]

36. BECAUSE AMERICANS NEED TO BE YELLING LIKE A MOTHER!

right now :)

whew, I feel better.

I could use a beer.

[Norquist Nemesis]

44. TGIF!!!

:beer: :toast:

[neuvocat]

59. WHY HAVEN'T WE BEEN YELLING BEFORE TODAY?

[BlueEyedSon]

3. 1. Public education sucks 2. The media reports BS

any questions?

[liontamer]

9. i agree!

this is where we need to lay our foundation

[Warpy]

25. Public education used to be topnotch

back when most folks only got 8 years to learn everything they needed to know to get along in the world. Most folks did their eight years and went on to a trade. High school was reserved for people who were to go on to teach or join one of the professions. College was reserved for the rich, to prepare them for a life of leisure and study for the joy of it. I have high school texts from the 1930s, and you would simply not believe the difference. Most 4 year college grads are incapable of doing the work they present.

There's a very deep anitintellectual bias in this country, and the joy of learning is simply not encouraged. People would rather have Johnny excel at sports than at calculus, and kids who show any sort of academic excellence are labeled geeks and despised.

Part of the problem is culture. Part of the problem is a dumbing down of education at all levels as the number of years required for everyone have increased. Whatever it is, as long as we don't reverse this trend, this country is going to be left in the dust by the rest of the world.

[LSK]

77. BINGO!!!!

"There's a very deep anitintellectual bias in this country, and the joy of learning is simply not encouraged. People would rather have Johnny excel at sports than at calculus, and kids who show any sort of academic excellence are labeled geeks and despised."

This is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo trueeeeeeeee!!

Dont forget cheerleaders too!

[The Traveler]

110. oops .. posted in wrong place ... deleting

[LWolf]

91. I knew when I read the thread title,

that it wouldn't go far before someone laid it right at my feet.

You want better public education? Get the fox out of the henhouse. Quit supporting politicians who think they know more about education than educators do; politicians who write the legislation that is destroying us.

Once you've addressed the bad legislation and lack of resources directly affecting public ed, make sure you address the outside social issues that directly affect what goes on at school.

Americans aren't dumb because of public ed. They're dumb because they believe everything they hear on tv, and they believe what their political party tells them about issues.

While I'm working all week for free to make sure my classroom is ready for the 32 students on my roster this year, I don't want to hear about how what I do "sucks."

[JVS]

4. TOO MUCH YELLING, THAT'S WHY!

[Kid_A]

5. Because Bush uses big words like "exemplorary" and "subliminable"

He talks like your mechanic, and people like that. And people also don't like the fact that John Kerry shot himself in Vietnam so he could get a medal and run for President 35 years later.

EDIT: Fixed some typos.

[LiberalFighter]

99. That's not the reason...

it is the same reason that gw* is dumb/stupid/an idiot...

Because too many American citizens don't read their newspapers.

[swag]

6. Why are Americans so dumb?

[Karenina]

23. Well, Mikie says...

Television, Drug of the Free
by Disposable Heroes of Hipocrisy (Michael Franti, 1991)

One nation under god has turned into
one nation under the influence of one drug

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., it satellite links
our united states of unconsciousness
apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive
the methadone metronome pumping out
150 channels 24 hours a day
you can flip through all of them
and still there's nothing worth watching
T.V. is the reason why less than ten percent
of our nation reads books daily
why most people think Central America means Kansas
socialism means unamerican
and apartheid is a new headache remedy
absorbed in its world it's so hard to find us
it shapes our mind the most
maybe the mother of our nation
should remind us that we're sitting too close to...

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V. is the stomping ground
for political candidates
where bears in the woods
are chased by grecian formula'd bald eagles
T.V. is mechanized politic's
remote control over the masses
co-sponsored by enironmentally safe gases
watch for the PBS special
it's the perpetuation of the two-party system
where image takes precedence over wisdom
where sound bite politics are served
to the fastfood culture
where straight teeth in your mouth
are more important than the words
that come out of it
race baiting is the way to get elected
Willie Horton or will he not get elected on...

(chorus)
Televison, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

T.V., is it the reflector or the director
does it imitate us or do we imitate it
because a child watches 1500 murders
before he's twelve years old
and we wonder how we've created
a Jason generation that learns to laugh
rather than abhor the horror
T.V. is the place where armchair generals
and quarterbacks can experience first hand
the excitement of video warfare
as the themesong is sung in the background
sugar sweet sitcoms that leave us with
a bad actor taste while pop stars metamorphosize
into soda pop stars you saw the video
you heard the soundtrack
well now go buy the soft drink
well, the only cola that I support
is a union C.O.L.A. (cost of living allowance) on...

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

Back again, "new and improved"
we return to our irregularly programmed schedule
hidden cleverly between heavy breasted
beer and car commmercials
CNNESPNABCTNT but mostly B.S.
where oxymoronic language like
"virtually spotless" "fresh frozen"
light yet filling" and
"military intelligence" have become standard
T.V. is the place where phrases are redefined
like "recession" to "necessary downturn"
"crude oil" on a beach to "mousse"
"civilian death" to "collateral damages"
and being killed by your own army
is now called "friendly fire"
T.V. is the place where the pursuit of
happiness has become the pursuit of trivia
where toothpaste and cars
have become sex objects
where imagination is sucked out of children
by a cathode ray nipple
T.V. is the only wet nurse
that would create a cripple
on...

(chorus)
Television, the drug of the nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation

[SemperEadem]

108. Nope.. wrong Fear is the drug of choice in this nation

and television is the method used to mainline it into our homes every day.

Americans like being scared because it requires a level of ignorance to maintain.

[cornfedyank]

113. a side effect civilization is stupidity

in the forest primevil the stupid bumble into death.

[DemNoir]

7. Did I miss something?

I thought the election was on Nov 2. If it has a bad outcome you can call people dumb on Nov 3. Till then, do something positive and stop complaining.

[PatriotGames]

8. Most people are to preoccupied with acquiring stuff. n/t

[BlueEyedSon]

10. Wouldn't BEING SMART help that goal?

[PatriotGames]

30. Not really, they just buy what the commercials tell them to.

No thought involved at all. Also, people live way above their means all the time.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

13. Fox

Fox... any questions?

[nikatnyte]

14. It takes too much effort to think

So much easier when you can let TV ads and sound bites make up your mind for you. Besides, who has the time to listen to both sides of an issue? That takes away from valuable activities like shopping and riding dirt bikes.

[leeman67]

11. People, in general, are dumb. not just Americans

The old Orwell adage, that the bigger the Lie, the more people will believe it (or I think that's how the saying goes..) applies worldwide. And BushCo are masters at playing up the Big Lie.

[oasis]

54. Mave you noticed that many "people" in foreign countries can speak

more than one language. Many Americans are just ignorant and their ignorance comes from their lack of intellectual curiosity.

[meisje]

12. Here's Why.....

The thinking minority is represented by those lone sheep toward the back of the photo. The rest is mainstream Merica!

[MaryH]

19. I Really Am Not Just Complaining

I don't under stand it. I work with some really nice people. Most of them really believe that they will be ratured up to heaven at any second. Now that just plain makes no sense.

Most of the men in my neighborhood drink beer and get into fist fights on Friday nite.

Someone else I knew who tested at the genious level really believed that Clinton had murdered people in Arkansas. There was some dumb book out about it - or something.

We will believe anything. Maybe its the mass hysteria thing.

Or maybe we just lost our will to perservere. But we need to do something about the level of our thinking.

[Swamp Rat]

68. I see your dilemma

you live in a neighborhood of knuckle-draggers and work with fundies. Maybe you should move? I'm not kidding. Come here to New Orleans or go to another "liberal" city like San Francisco. You'll be a lot happier. We have idiot fundies too but they are a minority. All my co-workers are fundies but since I can telecommute, I don't have to go their redneck area in Mississippi where folks are "dumber than a bag of hammers." Perhaps you'd like Switzerland where some folks speak five languages, or Holland where the flowers are smarter than the average redneck from Louisiana.

Americans, in general, are not being taught critical thinking skills in their formative years. Will anything be done about it? I hope so, or else this empire will disintegrate a lot faster than scheduled... or is that the GOP plan?

[Pachamama]

101. Holland where the flowers are smarter than the average redneck from LA

...aah Swamp Rodent.....we can always count on you to put it so perfectly...:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

102. Wayat Pachamama!

Nice of you to say. How's da pachababies? O8) O8)

Did you check out "PENTAGON SPY DATA" threads?

[Pachamama]

103. I DID check out the Pentagon Spy Data....it's getting interesting!

Maybe the October Surprise is going to be the Mother of all surprises?

I think the house of cards of the Neo-cons is about to fall....I can't say I didn't suspect all along an israeli hand was involved in a lot of this....I think there may be ties to Plame as well....I also still think that there are JAGs and CIA/FBI insiders that are doing some "outing"....

btw: did you see my post - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2272414&mesg_id=2272414

Got to meet Kerry yesterday...I'll send you photos....

[MikeG]

15. MaryH, why do you hate America?

[Ron Green]

60. LOL n/t

[shadu]

16. Repugs are:lazy, self absorbed, greedy, mean-spirited, and bigoted.

They are not dumb, they are assholes.

[stopbush]

17. Because our culture is pre-disposed to accepting myth and legend

as reality.

And that puts us one step away from swallowing The Big Lie whenever it's presented.

It starts early with the indoctrination of whatever religious dogma runs in your family, continues through grade school with pretty stories of cherry trees being chopped down as the real, not-so-pretty history is scrubbed clean, and finds its ultimate expression in the Horatio Alger myth of "the American Dream."

And, like most religion-infused cultures, we willing accept our own estimations of our righteousness, moral certitude and benevolence. All myths - and the foundation of our nation of consumers (as opposed to citizens) and their "America, right or wrong" philosophy (one wishes that they actually embraced the half of that statement that admits that America is, on occasion, wrong!).

So is it any wonder that a *real* war hero like Kerry is trashed and that such trashing is accepted if not salaciously enjoyed by the general populace, while a chicken-shit war-dodger like * is remade into some mythical *war president/hero,* all because he wears his appallingly simplistic religious beliefs on his blood-soaked sleeves?

Sorry for the rant, but I almost started a similar thread yesterday. Zeitgeist?

[Ms. Clio]

38. Great rant

Especially since I had to tell someone just the other day that the cherry tree story was a fable--and he responded that it was still a good way to teach his kids patriotism, or something.

When you rely on lies and myths instead of history, you have no ability to accurately judge present circumstances or make rational plans for the future.

[stopbush]

53. Americans LOVE their fables.

My mother-in-law - who hates bush - is very taken in with reality shows. And, she loves her fables.

I remember the day it came out that the Jessica Lynch story was a complete hoax. Her reaction when I told her: "Oh, that's too bad." "What do you mean, that's too bad?" asked I. "Well, it was such a heroic story...I wish that it was true." "Well, it wasn't exactly a heroic story, " said I, "it was a lie."

And there in a nutshell, is the problem: they WISH that it was true!

[mitchum]

67. You have nailed it, stopbush!

an excellent post

[barb162]

18. Bush tells them he found Jesus

and some voters totally believe him. It makes no diff what he does afterward and how un-jesuslike he behaves.

[NRaleighLiberal]

20. Several more reasons.....

Because many Americans are lazy
Because of rampant hypocrisy everywhere - examples - Southern Baptists who are holier than thou and judge everyone as less than them cheating, drinking, etc behind their own doors (the drinking isn't the problem - the double standard is!)....example, punishing Kerry for things that are lies, rather than going after those that lied....the best example - so many of the religious right supporing the Republican party, which is as unChristian in principles as you can get - all about greed and accumulating....
Because fear works so well on us....
Because of all the time spent mindlessly - reality TV, wresting, Jerry Springer, Nascar, etc etc etc

just a few reasons - it is all utterly depressing - we could achieve so much, but so many aim so low.

[MaryH]

22. Maybe its our Christian Base?

Christianity as most people practice it never has fostered deep thinkers.

[leesa]

33. Actively suppresses it, you mean. I'll always remember the 'doubting

Thomas' thing. The guy trys to think and is instantly shot down for it. It impressed me in the fifth grade. Ignorance is bliss.

[Ron Green]

61. Not just Christianity, but ANY fundamentalist belief system. eom

[NoBorders]

21. * supporters are psychologically stunted - this study proves it!

Really... They can't handle complex thoughts. Check it out:

From a UC Berkeley Study:

SNIP-
Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

Fear and aggression

Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity

Uncertainty avoidance

Need for cognitive closure

Terror management
-SNIP

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

[flasun]

24. Bill Clinton

To paraphrase:

If you think, you vote Democrat...The Daily Show

[dave123williams]

50. more accurately...

"When people think, Democrats win."

[LittleApple81]

26. I was walking around the house listening to DemocracyNow and thinking

the exact same thing. How can AMERICANS BE SO DUMB? 50% IDIOTS? 50% KILLERS? 50% NON-READERS? 50% NON-CURIOUS? 50% BLIND?

I live in a repug state so for me the proportion is much higher. It is really discouraging that a country where people have gotten more than a second grade education you can find so many unthinking beings.

[Ameridansk]

27. Fluoride

I'm not joking.

I HIGHLY recommed listening to these two interviews:
http://www.zerowasteamerica.org/Fluoride.htm

Just so y'all know, the rest of the world, (outside of English speaking countries)know all the great American arguments for fluoride in drinking water.

Many have even tried it. They all quit and it wasn't because of money.

They simply chose not try to decrease the occurence cavities by paying industries to dump their toxic industrial waste into the water supply.

It's called a no-brainer.

(And they're teeth are doing fine)


This person however, got too much fluoride.

I'll take the cavities instead, thank you very much.

If you're in America, TAKE YOUR FLUORIDE AND LIKE IT!!!

http://www.fluoridealert.org/

On edit:
To make myself clear:
Fluoride is a poison and when you take it in through ingesting water, it doesn't all wind up in your teeth. There's a lot more blood running through your brain than through your teeth, right?

[arbusto_baboso]

28. Old computer principle: GIGO

That's an acronym for "garbage in, garbage out." This refers to the fact that if you feed bad data to a computer, any data you get FROM it will also be crap.

See the parallel? We have a shitty education system, corrupt and dishonest media, churches which discourage thinking in a scientific way, and economic conditions which make it difficult for many folks to sift through all the dross and get REAL news and info.

How could Americans be other than what they are?

[coalition_unwilling]

29. What you're really asking (I think) may be

why Americans are so willing to act contrary to what reason & logic says should be their 'class interests'.

Richard Hofstadter's book "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" will give you a solid background in the lively anti-intellectual tradition in America.

To Hofstadter's work I would add my own reflection that 50 years of "anti-Communist" hysteria has decimated much of the organized American left, such that the hard work of building class consciousness\solidarity has been neglected. (I'm sure this is not my original thought, but I can't remember where I acquired it.)

[MaryH]

31. Yes, But

We seem to have just replaced one hysteria with another.

When I was little we had atom bomb drills. People met in Freedom Fighter groups. One of my friends told me Eleanor Roosevelt was a Communist.

Now we just seem to have "terrorist" drills instead of the Commie mania.

And look how people who have thought outside the box have been treated historically.

We do not value "thinking" in this culture.

[coalition_unwilling]

32. here's the deal (as I see it)

You and I have way more in common with the people of Iraq, than either group (we or Iraqis) have in common with Bush. This is not, I believe technically speaking, 'class identity', as Marx and Lenin would have seen it (although it is close).

But do you ever hear any discussion whatsoever in the mainstream media about the fact that average American and average Iraqi have way more in common with each other that either has with the ruling elite?

In the 1930's and '40's, you probably would have had a better chance of hearing such sentiments expressed, before the anti-communist hysteria decimated the organized left.

I've been involved at least tangentially in political organizing for the past 20 years (with various 'down' periods) and I can tell you that getting people to recognize their class identity is probably the most difficult task to accomplish, because there are so many ways the ruling elite cooks up to keep people divided. They used racism to keep black and white working class divided against itself.

If I say "We are all Iraqis", does that capture what I'm getting at?

[MaryH]

42. What class is Bush in?

He's a rich kid. But he is backed by rednecks (not much money, too much beer, and not much education), Blue collar, religious right, conservative business and corporations.

Right now I don't feel like I belong to any class. I don't have cable, just got hot water, don't have a cellular phone, and study philosophy most of the time. My thinking is not popular. I tend to ask too many questions.

[coalition_unwilling]

51. Your class is hard to define, since you "study philosophy"

I study 'history' and don't have cable, altho I do have a cell phone.

Marx would define your class by your relationship to the means of production. Vis-a-vis Bush, do you own a company or are you a wage slave?

I'm not an expert on Marxist and post-Marx Marxist thought, but I do seem to remember one theoretician proposing a sub-class of 'intelligentsia' who both are situated in the class system but also sit outside of it with respect to analysing the various class structures of a given society. (To the experts on Marxism, my heartfelt apologies for gross simplifications and even mis-statements, if there are any.)

[MaryH]

58. I don't feel like I'm part of a class

Philosophy is interesting that way. Both sides are interesting - or sometimes its "all" sides. Can make it hard to make decisions because everything is a million shades of gray.

That is why I have so much trouble with Bush. His thought patterns are so black and white. I keep wondering how he can believe those things and not ask himself questions.

I'm not sure he even has any comprehension of the fact that he is intellectually stunted.

[smirkymonkey]

65. Then again, there is the "Natural Aristocracy"

according to one of our founding fathers:

"There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents."
-Thomas Jefferson

Not one member of the Bush family has either. Which is why I consider them to be rich, white trash.

[MaryH]

72. I don't think I'm part of the Natural Aristocracy

I have never been into "stuff" so i don't have much. I live on the wrong side of the tracks to be aristocratic.

[coalition_unwilling]

73. I'd forgotten the Jefferson quote, but MaryH

You are definitely a part of the 'Natural Aristocracy', as Jefferson defined it.

On edit: In fact, just about everybody at DU is a part of that aristocracy, imho, even though I'm not an elitist

[MaryH]

74. Me?

Well, gosh! Thank you.

I wonder if it was Jefferson who came up with "this mess is a place".

That's my favorite saying of all time.

[smirkymonkey]

96. No, it has nothing to do with money or "stuff"

it's about character, virtue, talent, intelligence.

The rich greedy scum that runs this country have none of those qualities. They have acquired all they have despite lacking every single one of these things.

[karlrschneider]

66. "we are all Iraqis"...sure, just like the French said "we're all Americans

after 9/11. Not many of them would say so now.
:eyes:

[BiggJawn]

34. Teeeeee-Veeeeeeee....

Don't think. just relax, open your eyes, and let the attractive young people on FAUXNOOZ (They're Fair and Balanced. They SAY so!) install all of your thoughts and opinions in your brains....

And, Bush has "kept us safe from Terra"....OK, how many times did the terra-ists attack us on Big Dawg's watch? How many times did they hit us on Dumbya's watch? Once vs. Thrice?

But Bush has kept us safe from Saber-Tooth Tiger attack!

[Gregorian]

35. I'll take a stab.

I think the ratio of ignorant to educated is not too far from normal.
But there is something pathetic about Americans in general, these days. It's the "feed me" syndrome. The "do it for me" syndrome.
If there aren't more bright and cultured people here, I would guess that it's because the country is young, and that it has no bordering countries of great variety and culture. It's mostly water that surrounds us. It was mostly wild frontier until very recently. Rugged individualism was the norm. We really did a lot for ourselves until recently. I think that is due to corporatism and the television in combination. We were taught that someone else could do it for us. That included thinking. I'm very worried that we are sitting atop a house of cards. Nothing is local. We depend on oil and food from outside our communities. And the knowledge of survival is lost. So in that respect, there is a subconcious fe ar in all of us. The fear that an addict feels. I also think that as prices have risen in the last hundred years, we have had to spend more time earning money, rather than just living. Ask the old farmers. They used to be able to live with a dozen cattle. That's all they needed to survive. Then they had to turn to beef, which required many times the head. And life was never the same. They needed to rent extra land for the feed. They had to suppliment their income with a job, or other livestock. And modern living was born. Help me, feed me.
We did value education. But soon money became too important to wait for.

[Ron Green]

63. Right - good post. And a right-winger will say that the "feed me"

attitude is a result of a welfare state created by FDR or LBJ or some other liberal, and try to convince us to put our faith in an unfettered marketplace. Ignoring the fact that greed and power will create enough misery to eventually bring down the house of cards.

[Gregorian]

92. Oh, I love your sig line.

It's the exact thing I've said to myself. Phony cowboy. Phony president. Great! Well, actually it's maddening.

[Dangerman]

37. IMHO

Thank those bastards at fascist Fox News.

[seabeyond]

39. called denial, not stupidity

if one shapes their whole view to see life only one way so they validate the choices they make, and they have to elect a president that is against all that, they have to change the story. and one of those ways is refuse to hear or see the truth. dont go searchin for truth, can create anything they want for validation

example bush says belief there is documentation about my military history when there is none, believe john kerries military history is not true

if people dont go look listen see, they can buy that. if they chose to not look out all the info to document kerry's claim then they can say, he could be lieing

[info being]

49. Denial is stupid, though.

It is stupid not to accept plain reality. The trouble is, after a while, the mythology perpetuated by our "educational" system and media actually seems like reality.

[Catherine Vincent]

40. You need to ask that on freakrepublic.com

They think he's heaven sent. Idiots.

[stevielizard]

41. I think a lot of people regard 9/11 as a Pearl Harbor-

assuming that the strikes were backed by OBL- these guys have been at war with us since '91, when *'s father put the military in Saudi holy sites- they just got it together on 9/11.

Anyway, to the masses who don't know this, they regard * as being tough in the face of crisis- while we here know that the exact opposite is true.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. They're scared stupid

Read this and weep.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/357/4950476.html

By the way, Nick Coleman is an old-style liberal Democrat himself.

[medeak]

45. dumb or lazy?

does lazy make dumb or dumb make lazy?

It seems it's more patriotic these days to watch fox news than to read and question things.

You are what a true patriot should be Mary.

[MaryH]

48. Powell Visit Meeting Protest in Athens

I just saw this. People are marching in the streets because Powell is supposed to show up for closing ceremonies.

Think what would happen if Bush showed up!

And Clinton was in Dublin yesterday and huge crowds showed up to cheer him.

[msmcghee]

46. If you really want to know . .

. . first read the article that NoBorders refers to in post (21).

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Next, understand that after something like 9/11, or any event that creates a lot of fear, many people who were not already conservative, psychologically, will shift in that direction.

People who are already solidly liberal won't be affected very much. But folks who are liberal for mostly emotional reasons or who simply have ungrounded but highly emotional personalities will suddenly find themselves feeling very militaristic and Godly and loving a strong appearing leader who doesn't "nuance" much - who is ready to smoke out the evildoers and show them the wrath of God.

In a nutshell, intelligence and education are weak forces that don't come close to opposing the highly emotional forces of fear in the minds of many people. Each side will maintain that the other side is dumb. But intelligence is probably distributed equally on both sides of the spectrum.

Of course, Rove knows all this very well and has been taking expert advantage of these forces of human nature for many years. Osama bin Laden was a true gift for the neocons. And if Karl gets his way, it's the gift that will just keep on giving.

[LibDemAlways]

76. I agree.

Look at how people mindlessly accept the ridiculous airport security that has become the norm since 9/11. Elderly people forced out of their wheelchairs. Children having their teddy bears swabbed for explosives. Middle aged women being wanded, every bra hook examined. It's stupid, ludicrous and makes no one safer. It's government run amok, using its vast power to play on the public's fears and intimidate people into submission.

Unless people are willing to start questioning some of this crap, we can kiss the USA we grew up in good-bye.

[wrate]

47. It's less a matter of IQ and more a matter of education or lack of it

there of. And it happens everywhere, not just in the U.S. This article shows a very good picture of the situation:"Learning to Be Stupid in the Culture of Cash"

By Luciana Bohne

You might think that reading about a Podunk University's English teacher's attempt to connect the dots between the poverty of American education and the gullibility of the American public may be a little trivial, considering we've embarked on the first, openly-confessed imperial adventure of senescent capitalism in the US, but bear with me. The question my experiences in the classroom raise is why have these young people been educated to such abysmal depths of ignorance.

"I don't read," says a junior without the slightest self-consciousness. She has not the smallest hint that professing a habitual preference for not reading at a university is like bragging in ordinary life that one chooses not to breathe. She is in my "World Literature" class. She has to read novels by African, Latin American, and Asian authors. She is not there by choice: it's just a "distribution" requirement for graduation, and it's easier than philosophy -she thinks.

The novel she has trouble reading is Isabel Allende's "Of Love and Shadows," set in the post-coup terror of Pinochet's junta's Nazi-style regime in Chile, 1973-1989. No one in the class, including the English majors, can write a focused essay of analysis, so I have to teach that. No one in the class knows where Chile is, so I make photocopies of general information from world guide surveys. No one knows what socialism or fascism is, so I spend time writing up digestible definitions. No one knows what Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" is, and I supply it because it's impossible to understand the theme of the novel without a basic knowledge of that work - which used to be required reading a few generations ago. And no one in the class has ever heard of 11 September 1973, the CIA-sponsored coup which terminated Chile's mature democracy. There is complete shock when I supply US de-classified documents proving US collusion with the generals' coup and the assassination of elected president, Salvador Allende.

Geography, history, philosophy, and political science - all missing from their preparation. I realize that my students are, in fact, the oppressed, as Paulo Freire's "The Pedagogy of the Oppressed" pointed out, and that they are paying for their own oppression. So, I patiently explain: no, our government has not been the friend of democracy in Chile; yes, our government did fund both the coup and the junta torture-machine; yes, the same goes for most of Latin America. Then, one student asks, "Why?" Well, I say, the CIA and the corporations run roughshod over the world in part because of the ignorance of the people of the United States, which apparently is induced by formal education, reinforced by the media, and cheered by Hollywood. As the more people read, the less they know and the more indoctrinated they become, you get this national enabling stupidity to attain which they go into bottomless pools of debt. If it weren't tragic, it would be funny.

Meanwhile, this expensive stupidity facilitates US funding of the bloody work of death squads, juntas, and terror regimes abroad. It permits the war we are waging - an unfair, illegal, unjust, illogical, and expensive war, which announces to the world the failure of our intelligence and, by the way, the creeping weakness of our economic system. Every man, woman, and child killed by a bomb, bullet, famine, or polluted water is a murder - and a war crime. And it signals the impotence of American education to produce brains equipped with the bare necessities for democratic survival: analyzing and asking questions.

Let me put it succinctly: I don't think serious education is possible in America. Anything you touch in the annals of knowledge is a foe of this system of commerce and profit, run amok. The only education that can be permitted is if it acculturates to the status quo, as happens in the expensive schools, or if it produces people to police and enforce the status quo, as in the state school where I teach. Significantly, at my school, which is a third-tier university, servicing working-class, first-generation college graduates who enter lower-echelon jobs in the civil service, education, or middle management, the favored academic concentrations are communications, criminal justice, and social work--basically how to mystify, cage, and control the masses.

This education is a vast waste of the resources and potential of the young. It is boring beyond belief and useless--except to the powers and interests that depend on it. When A Ukranian student, a three-week arrival on these shores, writes the best-organized and most profound essay in English of the class, American education has something to answer for--especially to our youth.

But the detritus and debris that American education has become is both planned and instrumental. It's why our media succeeds in telling lies. It's why our secretary of state can quote from a graduate-student paper, claiming confidently that the stolen data came from the highest intelligence sources. It's why Picasso's "Guernica" can be covered up during his preposterous "report" to the UN without anyone guessing the political significance of this gesture and the fascist sensibility that it protects.

Cultural fascism manifests itself in an aversion to thought and cultural refinement. "When I hear the word 'culture,'" Goebbels said, "I reach for my revolver." One of the infamous and telling reforms the Pinochet regime implemented was educational reform. The basic goal was to end the university's role as a source of social criticism and political opposition. The order came to dismantle the departments of philosophy, social and political science, humanities and the arts--areas in which political discussions were likely to occur. The universities were ordered to issue degrees only in business management, computer programming, engineering, medicine and dentistry - vocational training schools, which in reality is what American education has come to resemble, at least at the level of mass education. Our students can graduate without ever touching a foreign language, philosophy, elements of any science, music or art, history, and political science, or economics. In fact, our students learn to live in an electoral democracy devoid of politics - a feature the dwindling crowds at the voting booths well illustrate.

The poet Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote that, in the rapacity that the industrial revolution created, people first surrendered their minds or the capacity to reason, then their hearts or the capacity to empathize, until all that was left of the original human equipment was the senses or their selfish demands for gratification. At that point, humans entered the stage of market commodities and market consumers--one more thing in the commercial landscape. Without minds or hearts, they are instrumentalized to buy whatever deadens their clamoring and frightened senses--official lies, immoral wars, Barbies, and bankrupt educations.

Meanwhile, in my state, the governor has ordered a 10% cut across the board for all departments in the state - including education.

Luciana Bohne teaches film and literature at Edinboro University in Pennsylvania.

[MaryH]

52. Well, it's not just me asking, is it?

[young_at_heart]

56. I have been asking this question over and over

Part of it I think is our isolation. Most Americans have little knowledge of the rest of the world. Education here lags far behind other "western" countries....where the world situation is discussed on a regular basis. Republicans during Reagan learned to use spin and short sound bites (not to mention outright lies) to appeal to the general populace. It has obviously worked for them. I wish Bill Clinton could give advice to Kerry. Clinton commands attention with his superior speaking abilities.

[EST]

64. With the talented input from all the above posts,

I'm almost afraid to weigh in on this issue. However, here goes.

Very early in life (some argue even pre-birth) people develop a thing we refer to as an ego. Not to get too technical, this ego has one and only one purpose: the survival of self, or whatever the self appears to be. At about this time, as the mind develops, the mind begins to think of itself as THE self. Thus, this ego becomes about protecting the survival of the mind. Please note: this is not some sort of thinking or planning you do; it is a normal process that goes on without noticing or caring, for the most part. You can do very little about it.

The only tool the ego has for doing this protecting the self, or whatever the self considers itself to be, is being right (always) and righteous. An illustration- if you make wrong decisions, consistently, you don't survive very long.

This always having to be right and righteous about literally everything is generally pretty useful for getting along, until we come to social relationships.
By the way, this absolute compulsion to be right is, arguably, the most powerful driving force we know of. After it seems to be necessary for our very survival. It is so powerful, it can, and does, cause the destruction of the body in order to survive. People who commit suicide do so because, to them, it is the right, the only thing to do.

Once we have this survival mechanism set up, it then governs all else. If we are confronted with the idea that we might be wrong about something, we react strongly, quite often violently. This thing, the compulsion to be right and righteous, is the source of all, or nearly all, human misery. Wars, racism, class warfare, religious disagreements, value judgments, all human suffering grows directly out of this mechanism; it makes victims of us all. Does someone hate you? That comes from their feeling that if you are right, they must be wrong. Your being right about virtually anything is treated as a direct threat to their survival. If I'm wrong it will kill me.
No wonder people react the way they do!

How do people of tolerance manage? By using the tools we have of love, kindness, gentleness, beauty, value, common sense, etc.

Are there situations where violence must be met with violence? Well, probably, but, given time and opportunity, the tools of gentle persuasion can be very effective. I apologize for the length of this treatise, but I hope it helps and, yes, there is much more to this.

[jbm]

93. Thanks for the post Rev..

I'm going to store your 'drive to be right' theory away in my memory. I think it has a lot of validity. Thanks again for the post!

[EST]

100. I appreciate your attention

Sometimes trying to share notions that are pretty accurate descriptions (at least from a sort of quantom theory pov) of what really goes on in people motivation feels a little like trying to breathe underwater.

[coalition_unwilling]

78. Powerful essay

Since the author mentions Shelley in her final paragraph, I'd point out that Shelley also said that "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." I know in my heart this is true; listen to (and watch) King's "I Have a Dream" speech and you'll know it is true also.

[info being]

55. self-delete. wrong thread

[LloydLib]

57. Our party wants to debate viet nam not the economy

I think it is why you do not see clinton around this mess. He gave his good advice to Kerry, it is the economy stupid.

It beat a bush.

How many months will we defend this crazy nam stuff that gains us nothing.

[Ron Green]

62. I have the opinion that the ratio of "dumb" to "smart" people

has always been pretty much the same throughout history. The thing that changes is the way in which the ignorance of the masses is manifest. In modern America, we are numbed by the teevee, as was so well pointed out above. In the old days, the Church had everybody fooled. Since WWII, it's been lots of products to be consumed. In parts of the Middle East, fundamental Islam is holding sway. I think that certain pockets of enlightenment (Canada? Western Europe?) are anomalous, and probably wax and wane as public education is effected. The big picture, to me, is that our separation into classes is an illusion, and the truth is that we are all one. But it's in the interest of those who would rule us to appeal to the separateness, and point out the Other, and preach fear. This goes straight to our fundamental fear of not being complete, and works like a charm.

[MaryH]

70. Maybe Only Smart People Should Vote

I wonder what things would be like if we did that.

[Ron Green]

80. I think that was the general idea in Greece and Rome,

where citizens would participate in democracy and slaves would do the other stuff.

[Blue Wally]

118. What would ve the effect in Florids of a literacy test???

Say a test equivalent to a high school civics exam?? It would destroy our base.

[Disturbed]

75. Anti-Intellectualism

It begins in grade school. Children that are bright are intimidated by the average to below average ones because the bright ones are in the minority. Teachers favor the bright ones and the others immediately resent this preferential treatment. Also, the bright ones make their lessers feel inadequate which breeds contempt. The bright ones then dumb themselves down in order not to be pummeled by the rest but this doesn't satisfy the dominant group because they know that the dumbing down is a ploy. The dominant group still feels hostility. The bright ones will most likely mingle with the other bright ones, setting themselves appart from the dominant group or if they can't find others in their IQ grouping become loners.

Just an off the top little theory. ;)

[Ron Green]

81. Somehow the payoff for being dumb is greater

than the payoff for being bright (at least in school.) I think it relates to the need to have an enemy. Truly smart people know that we are supposed to seek accord, not enmity. Most of the "dumb" kids in school run on pure enmity, and that grows into adult ignorance. IMHO.

[FrenchieCat]

69. The reason that Americans are dumb.....

is not the question.

The question is why is the DNC so damn incompetent? Seems like they should be able to finesse a strategy to get these dumbass folks to vote Democratic.

Looks like the RNC is less stupid, cause they found a way.

So my friends, we can ask the question...but it won't give us a cure.

What we need now is a "smart" organization that understands what it takes to get "dumb" Americans to vote for their ticket.

Doh!

[MaryH]

71. In Missouri you have to have a big barbeque

[Tight_rope]

79. Not all American's are dumb...But I have to agree that many are!

For some it's not even about education it's about being ignorant. But then again KKKarl Rove says that education is a bad thing.

And seeing that he is Bush's* political adviser, one can only assume that he has told the uneducated Bush*, Rove being uneducated himself, that education is not important.

American's don't need to be educated to be rich. All they have to be able to do is be very good at lying, stealing, and killing. With these skills you will surely make it to the top.

"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans...unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.” - Karl Rove :spank:

[noiretextatique]

82. being stupid is a virtue in america

that's why so many americans are dumb as dirt.

[quaker bill]

83. By definition

One half of all Americans have a less than average IQ.

I galls me that the republicans have the temerity to even run this bozo again.

[MAlibdem]

84. The way to win votes is not by telling people they're dumb.

If the Democratic Party wants to continue winning elections, the elitist, paternalistic attitudes toward the working poor and lower middle class must end.

There seems not even to be a recognition that some people are so tired when they get home they have no energy to inform themselves. The exhausted working class is easy to manipulate, and even easier to piss off if you assume you are better or smarter than they are.

We need the Midwest and Southwest and South in future elections, but we won't get them with such an attitude.

[noiretextatique]

87. stupidity is hardly limited to the lower class and working poor

is it? *, for example, is a son of wealth and privilege. stupid people with power and money are far more dangerous than some poor working stiff.

[MAlibdem]

90. im was not at all saying that...

that just seems to be the stereotype that is lambasted here because they ignorantly (not stupidly) vote against their economic interests

[noiretextatique]

105. that can't be all bush voters

i think they are all ignorant; only most of them are stupid.

[Christof]

85. I've been questioning that since November of 2000.

I still cannot find an answer.

What I think is that a large chunk of people in our country don't care about politics or don't follow politics that much, so they just assume the president, more specifically, the government, is doing alright (which it's not, of course).

It's not that people are stupid, it's that they're just ignorant on what's going on. They need to be educated.

[many a good man]

86. Instant gratification society

A profusion of mind-numbing self-indulgent entertainment options! In the old days life was nasty, brutish, and short. And boring so people entertained themselves with things like reading, conversation, politics, etc.

Yes, before football men talked politics more than sports among themselves.

Now we have INSTANT GRATIFICATION available to us around the clock, mostly due to technology. Why hurt your brain on hard stuff like poverty and world politics when you can just numb it in any one of a million ways?

Besides, its an uncomfortable feeling when you begin to realize that maintaining America's preeminance in the world requires a lot of nastiness. If we lose world dominance then maybe the economy would suck even worse...You think the race and class divisions suck but at least you're on top of somebody else.

Why think and talk and act when you can spend your life in blissful ignorance!

[SeattleJazz]

88. All Americans aren't dumb!

Good lord, what a silly question. Asking why "All Americans" are dumb is like asking why "All French are yellow-bellied" or why "All Germans are Nazis". Gross generalizations of this magnitude fail the instant you start a deeper analysis of the situation. America contains a heap load of people, a great many of them very smart, very talented, and very educated. "Dumbness" I suppose is in the eye of the beholder. I look at America and I see a vast spectrum. I can't lump the whole country into one category or another. Frankly, I am surprised anyone on this forum can bring themselves to do it.

:eyes:

[Piperay]

104. So many things on this forum

seem to surprise you maybe you aren't that familar with our side after all...

[The Straight Story]

89. So those who do not agree with your/our view are dumb?

Kind of like the christians saying those that don't share their beliefs are not saved. Your view - see things my way as it is the path to your salvation, same as any other belief system.

they are not dumb, the people running usually don't show that much difference between them. I am sure some here during the dem primaries called Kerry 'bush lite' or something to that effect early on. Now he is seen, generally, as vastly different than bush.

The people are not dumb, they are just tuned in to how politicians really behave. From clinton and gays in the military to the multitude of things we can list about the bush gang. I think perhaps most people just want politicians to leave them alone and run the things we put them there to run in an honest way. They know none of them are perfect, none will deliver completely on their promises, and that the old boys network still is in place.

Overall - people feel removed from the whole mess. Sure they can get polarized on a issue here or there, maybe even take some time to send a letter on a specific issue once in awhile. But then too I think some grow weary of baby sitting the people they hire. They just want someone in there to keep things moving along.

How much can we blame them? Sure, some may not know their congress person's name - but even those that do know it, do they have a handy list of all the legislation that has come up, highlighted and indexed with an analysis of what it all means? How many people have that much free time?

So we have those, like some here and elsewhere, who do have the time and desire to delve into more. They get the info, boil it down, and try to get that information out through emails, mailing lists, ltte, editorials, and so forth. But people will also see something ominous in all that as well - bias. Those that hate bush will absolutely not say anything good if they can get away with it. They see bad, want him out, so they only focus on those negative things which help their cause - instead of focusing on a broader scope of things and looking for honest answers.

May sound harsh - but I know and work with people who see things like this, and it goes for both sides of the fence. So overall, people just get disgusted. The politicians lie and distort, the people examining the politics who are not themselves elected distort and report only what fits in their agenda, and no one seems interested in giving out the straight story. Party X wants to cut the defense budget (but really they want to only grow it by less, it is still an increase in funding), and so on.

People aren't dumb, just sick of the crap and twists from all sides who think they are stupid and will fall for it all. You see your ideas and views as best for the masses, others don't. It is the battle of ideas which is being waged, and if we are not getting people to understand our views maybe we are the problem.

[agincourt]

94. Nations reach high standards,

than maintains them for a while. Eventually the public turns into a generation of swine who hate the good and love the rotten. Big comeuppance for all the porkers in ten years or less. The stockyards will be busy.

[Lindsey]

95. I know, I'm clueless too....

It's the bizarre thing I've ever seen.

[cosmicvortex20]

97. Its pretty common to think the other side is stupid...

They think the same thing though. Its a human thing - us vs them...

[clu]

98. drive-by

IMO, in a lot of cases it's a matter of "white pride worldwide". Not much has changed since the days of the colonization of America, and WASPs know that.

[Elginoid]

106. you forgot FAT.....and LAZY...the triumverate of modern americanism

those without intellectual curiosity are less likely to question the great and powerful Oz, or take a look behind the curtain at who's really pulling the levers and pushing the buttons.

we're already a couple generations behind on the curve- and losing ground...

BUT-
we've still got all them nukes, and a big-ass navy and air force-

btw- didja ever notice how the biggest bully on the block was never actually all that bright either...there's gotta be an analogy in there somewhere.

[shrike]

107. American culture glorifies stupidity

Reality shows, Adam Sandler movies (apologies to sandler fans and to Mr. Sandler himself; there's nothing with a little stupidity ONCE in a while), moronic sitcoms, etc.

(Excuse my generalizations; I'm listening to the great Cole Porter of Indiana right now; hard to believe he was born on this soil.)

[eridani]

109. We aren't. We're ignorant, and that's worse.

We aren't any dumber than anyone else, but stupidity in any case can't be helped. Ignorance is a choice, and a really shameful one.

[The Traveler]

111. See "Bowling for Columbine"

specifically the cartoon about the "scared white guys and guns".

Scared white guys value meaningless expressions of pseudo-toughness. Knowledge is not valued because it is actually feared. Knowledge requires adaptation, knowledge erodes the structures of denial, and scared white guys don't savor either. Fox News knows this and so caters to the scared white guy by both feeding his fears and reassuring him that his ignorance and prejudice is strength.

I'm a white guy, but not easily frightened. So I like knowledge, and don't like the structures of denial. My denial structures (we all have them) I regard as evidence of my own weakness.

[Gregorian]

112. The AUTOMOBILE

It struck me like a lead balloon, yesterday. I went on a 21 mile bike ride, and watched all of the people in their cars. I even got to see a wreck. Drunk kids rolled their truck off a cliff.
As I was riding, I was thinking about this thread. I wanted to find out how it happened. How did people get to be the way they are. I thought about how I'd come to an answer. It seemed that I could try and figure out when it happened. There was "before the car", and "after the car". Before the car, we were forced to work. Even riding a horse required effort, and knowledge. But after the car, we became powerful, and lazy. That's the part one can best observe while riding a bike. It's as blatant as staring at the sun. Drivers are a terrible lot of people. Some of them, at any rate. Typically, I imagine those types as being republicans. And I'm probably not far from the truth. Those who don't give bikers a spare inch, as they fly by in their steel monsters at high speeds.
I can't really say why, but I believe our answer lies with the car. It gave us mobility that we never should have had. Like never before, the world was our oyster. Not something one could do with a horse. Maybe a sailboat, if one were courageous. It gave us freedom to ignore our community, and flee to other places for work. From what I see, it gives people a break from boredom. I watch, as the neighbors come and go incessantly, all day long, in my neighborhood. It's insideous if you know what it's doing to the environment, and politics. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that to drive IS to be ignorant. One must BE ignorant in order to drive. Otherwise they'd explode from the guilt of knowing what the effects of driving are having on the world. We can only drive if we force ourselves to be ignorant of the truth.
Look at the timeline. I think you'll find that as the car entered our lives, our lives didn't get better. We got stupid.

[jtjathomps]

114. Government Education and Teacher's Unions /NT

[DaveSZ]

115. The public must be kept stupid

This is part of the plan.

The public is more easy to manipulate when they lack proper education.

[LearnedHand]

117. Wrong forum, freep

Take that argument to Free-from-news Republic.

[pezcore64]

116. i tend to think

ignorance is bliss.

people in this country are selfish and only care if they are not directly disturbed or bothered by something.
its the society we've built.
the one that tells you in kindergarden "Share with your friends" then tells you "CRUSH your competition" and to not let people stand in the way of ur personal gain or wealth.

sad really
especially for a country who likes to claim itself christian of origin. not very 'jesusly',if you will, if you ask me.

mind you im an ordained minister.

its really no wonder we all turn out so confused and messed up. look at what the system has been doing for a long time. in a way its like the matrix on a different scale. there are no computers tho, no viri' in control, just other greedy people.
a nation of *love thy neighbor, unless he disagrees with you*.

people should have the common sense to see the different between right and wrong. *shrugs*. i know, i know...but people have different ideas of whats right and wrong...but come on people...there are somethings that you just know you should not do. lol.