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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 03:01 PM
Original message
Letter from a Region of My Mind
Edited on Thu Aug-19-04 03:11 PM by H2O Man
A Letter From a Region Of My Mind
dedicated to James B.

{A} "Of all our studies, history is best qualified to reward our research." - Malcolm X, 1963

In the past 48 hours, I have received several communications regarding the status of the DU Plame Threads. I have been asked to address some of the concerns that had been raised, and to explain what I believe my role on this forum is. I have hesitated to to do without first giving it serious consideration.

Yet, because I have asked people on here to both write letters to editors, and to put their on letters to elected officials, and because my "role" will include doing that in the future, I will take this time to address those questions. I hope that it will be viewed as a step towards reducing some of the tensions that have taken a toll on the efforts on these threads.

I spent some time reading a wide range of DU threads in these two days. There is a wide range of issues being raised, discussed, and actions being taken on DU. And that's a great thing. The forum is generally an opportunity to discuss these issues of importance. It is clear that there are concerns being expressed by people who catch a lot of hell in our society, or who are concerned about other people catching hell. Some people because of their sexuality. Some because of the color of their skin, or their religion. An estimated 1 in 4 Americans lives too close to a site contaminated by toxic wastes, which creates health risks. Other people are either underemployed or unemployed. Some have trouble with college expenses. Many have relatives in the military. And some are concerned about the innocents suffering from the savage war being carried out in Iraq.

While on the surface, these may appear separate issues, they are not. These are all problems for the citizens of the communities in America. They all effect our extended families. And they all are tied to a common enemy. Because to a large degree, we find they atre connected to the Bush Administration, and the business interests of the "power elite" that backs George w. Bush.

Each of these "interests" is like a finger on a hand. Alone, the enemy can break them easily. But if we clench those fingers together, we form a powerful fist that is fully capable of protecting those interests.

I watched a few minutes of the news last night. When I see the battles being played out between the Bush and Kerry camps, I realize that this nation has some unfinished business from the 1960s. I see that Fox news openly promotes the giant triplets that Martin Luther King fought against: militarism, materialism, and racism. And so I turn the tv off, and read two of my favorite speeches from the '60's that were mentioned on DU: Malcolm's "Message to the Grass Roots," and Martin's "Beyond Vietnam."

{B} "The past is never dead. It's not even past." - William Faulkner; Intruder in the Dust

Ten months ago, an associate suggested that I view four different internet forum sites. One was DU. It quickly became my favorite, because it provides a forum for what I consider the far-left wing of the democratic party, to meet and discuss issues with other like-minded peoples. I am proud to consider myself a member of the democratic party's far-left wing.

In fact, I think that I am radical. I am radical, because I like to get things done. I am radical, because I know things can be done. I am radical, because I believe in miracles. Every day is a miracle. Every human being is a miracle. And I know that political miracles and cultural miracles happen. They just take a heck of a lot of work.

I found that on DU there are people from across this country who likewise are ready, willing, and able to get things done. People who may have a different point of view on one subject or another, but who have been accomplishing serious works for many, many years. There are many work horses that have done the incredibly hard work that social progress requires. I began to converse with kindred spirits.

As many of you know, I am interested in the Plame case. I responded to an interesting post on the case. A conversation started, and the Plame Threads were born.

I had a goal of spreading a specific message about the Plame case on a grass-roots level. That message was that there was a very good chance that VP Cheney was the driving force behind the exposing of a CIA agent. The theory of why two White House officials used Robert Novak to expose Plame is outlined on the Waterman Paper.

I had considered a number of avenues for reaching this goal before deciding on DU. I believe that DU was the proper way. Within a short time, the Plame Threads had reached a large number of grass-roots groups and individuals. This was because of the hard work and very real talents of a group who became known as the DU Think Tank.

Further, as a few people know, I had communications with a number of individuals from other areas interested in the Plame Threads and our ideas on the case. While their interests ranged from mild to serious, and some agreed with more of our ideas than others, it was clear that our grass-roots work was getting some attention.

I was proud to have played a role in a group effort. At that time, I considered borrowing a line from the president -- "Mission Accomplished" -- and ending my participation in the group.

{C} "A drop in the ocean partakes of the greatness of its parent, although it is unconscious of it. But it dries up as soon as it enters upon an existance independant of the ocean" - Gandhi

In politics, there are groups: 1- those who always agree with you; 2- those who never agree with you; and 3- the undecided. The initial goal of the Plame Threads had been to reach others in the 1st group with information on the significance of the case. In deciding to continue the effort on the threads, I asked others if it would be worthwhile to try to reach the 3rd group.
This would be done by writing letters (and sending e-mails) to editors of newspapers, to tv stations, and to elected officials. There is the potential for meaning results if, for example, we could have gotten 100 people to write letters to the editors of Time regarding the Plame case.

The reaction was mixed. Several individuals wrote numerous letters, while others wrote a few. Of the people involved in the letter writing, there was a great deal of excitement. One person noted that he thought we were going to be doing something really big.

I responded with the above quote from Gandhi. My own goal was only to be a small part of a big thing. I am aware of the consequences of trying to be a big thing. Also, if our group could not have the discipline to get a group of 100 to write letters to specific targets on a weekly basis, it was unlikely we would reach the status needed for major accomplishments. Any attempt to do so would put too much pressure on this young group.

Some responses to the Gandhi quote indicated people understood. Others showed a lack of understanding. This is not a case of "good" or "bad." People shared similar goals, yet there was a growing impatience to do more. And, in some cases, to have huge results.

In groups looking for results, a dependable work horse is of greater than an impatient race horse. No grass-roots group makes huge strides in a matter of weeks.Not even in months. That only happens in Hollywood movies and works of fiction.

Thus, at the same time the DU Think Tank flowered with RP's American Judas, an outstanding paper that details the Cheney connections with the nuclear K-Mart, the seeds of self destruction were being sown. Several members who wanted immediate results from the very early efforts to reach the 3rd group were off to the horse races. Rather than continue reaching the grass-roots on Plame, and attempting to reach the undecided, as a part of an election year movement, they branched out in numerous directions.

I took off a week to climb some mountains in my mind. When I came back, the threads were no longer discussing Plame to any significant degree. There was some very important examination of the Sibel Edmonds controversy. But most of the threads had to do with researching 9-11, with a fanciful goal of "solving" the case.

The team was accumulating a huge amount of information at a rapid rate. I suggested that we take one day per week to discuss its significance.This would allow the opportunity to separate the wheat from the chaff. My suggestion was rejected.

Their 9-11 research had numerous weaknesses. For example, it ignored Usama bin Laden. I suggested they consider that he played a major role. I recommended a book that I thought was significant. I was told it was not of value, because "the author sucks."

Because the Plame Threads had received attention from outside sources, and because we were in a position to potentially reach that 3rd (undecided) audience, I stressed the need to refocus, and to be able to present information that someone from group #2, like a Sean Hannity, could not easily discredit. There are times when you get an opportunity, and you need to be prepared to take advantage of that opportunity. Once it passes by it's gone forever. Another opportunity that looks, feels, and smells like it may come by, but it can never be that same opportunity. I wanted the members of the research group to be ready. However, for a variety of reasons, my advice was ignored.

I believed it would be better for them to hear the weak points of their 9-11 theory from me, than from a group #2 person like Hannity. Hence I wrote "Sometime in New York City," which addressed the role of Usama bin Laden in 9-11. I posted it here, on a friendly group #1 site. There has been nothing on the Plame threads to indicate that the 9-11 researchers could hold their own on a debate on 9-11; yet they prefer this to engaging on the now national debate on the Plame case -- something they could provide a valuable service on, and kick any "Sean Hannity's" behind on.

The response has been a series of posts that question my motivation, and express a concern that I "used" their previous efforts for personal gain. I want to address that.

{D}"And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live." - Martin Luther King, Jr; Beyond Vietnam

Before saying who I am, I will say who I am not: I am not looking to make money off my participation in the Plame case, not on DU or anywhere else. I had suggested that the Plame threads could be a part of a DU book, for a fund-raiser. I offered my services for free. But these threads should only be part of a bigger book, including more issues and discussions.

Some urged me to write a book for my own gain. Others question if I've used this for employment. I will remind people that I was seriously injured in an automobile accident, and am retired. I will be frank and say -- as I said at the time -- that some people approached me about a job writing for a leftist paper for college student paper. Yet they were race horses, and I did not waste my time. I'm retired, and financially comfortable. I'm not using the DU for a spring board to the "big time."

I have been on tv, bumped shoulders with famous people, written for papers and magazines, and been the subject of articles in papers and magazines, and have had more than my fill of publicity. I'm not engaged in any form of self-promotion.

{E} "I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls." - Job; 30:29

I am a retired psychiatric socil worker, ith more than three decades of grass roots activist experience.

I've worked on legal cases involving the "wrongfully convicted;" for jail reform; and have helped the rightfully convicted. Three years ago, I helped a 18-year old kid who was given a life sentence for a non-violent crime that white kids get probation for; he won an appeal in the NYS Court of Appeals.

I've worked on cases for social justice, and on cases opposing anti-social injustice. I had a person hit me with a board during one march for social justice: luckily it hit me on the head, breaking the board. I've seen the best and the worst in human nature.

I've learned patience. I worked on Super Fund cases that took 25 years to resolve. I've helped the US Dept. of Justice on an environmental case that went to federal court. I've assisted in preparing Native American burial protection cases that have been heard in state Supreme Court. I've advocated for teen-agers and the elderly, for poor people, and for the mentally ill. I've invested a large amount of my time and money in this work. I've never sought or accepted a penny for my efforts.

I belong to a small group of individuals, from diverse backgrounds, who work at a grass-roots level for social justice. We share a very real concern that America as we have known it is dying. We are concerned that the American dream may not be available for future generations. We are dedicated towards trying to promote constitutional democracy. My area is the grass-roots.

I believe the grass-roots has three focuses: public education, voter registration, and grass-roots participation in the political process. It's a long and difficult line of work. And while our greatest enemy may be the Bush Administration and extreme right-wing republican fascism, our most immediate danger is that which has produced the divisions in even the small Plame "think tank."

{F} "Now there's a time to fight, and there's a time for healing. As the sun will melt the snow on clear bright April mornings, our fight has run its course. Now's the time for healing." - Ron Kavana; Reconciliation

Where do we go from here? I endorse the idea of having separate threads, as proposed last night. I think this is already occurring. There are probably at least three threads and sub-groups. Some people get along with everyone, and they should feel comfortable conversing with anyone, without petty issues being raised.

Due to hurt feelings and hostilities, other people should agree to avoid each other, and should not damage the group effort by selfishly trying to get insults in under the monitor's radar. We don't have to like each other to agree to work towards a common goal. And maybe as we achieve results, hostilities will fade like snow on a bright April morning

There is only a short time left until election day in November. We will not have this opportunity again. Let's use it wisely.
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well said, H2O, and thank you for your thoughtful post
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thank you....
now line up and count off by "one," and we'll put you on the first team. (grin)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Hear, hear H20
My hat is off to you sir!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks, Me .....
I think this old group still has a lot of good potential.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks, good advice. Let's not forget who the enemies are.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I Just Saw A News Report...
...that said that Senator Kennedy was put on a security watch list at airports. Even after Tom Ridge "intervened" it took a considerable effort to get him off. Now, who doesn't think this was a vindictive and spiteful act done on purpose by the admin.? These very same people are "the little foxes" who have done their best to "spoil our vines".
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I love your Gandhi quote!
I'm hoping that the spirit of the Mahatma moves the crowd at the republican convention. In fact, it would be nice if it moved the democrats outside the convention, and the participants inside. Now wouldn't that be a move towards civilization?
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. the crowd is already moved by his spirit... but...
the dark side has all the playing cards.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. We need to remember this!
"Each of these "interests" is like a finger on a hand. Alone, the enemy can break them easily. But if we clench those fingers together, we form a powerful fist that is fully capable of protecting those interests."
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Let's concentrate on two letters
in the next week: (1) letters to our Representatives and Senators opposing the Goss nomination. Also, send letters to Ted Kennedy and to the Congressional Black Caucus. New York State's Charles Rangel is one of the bravest people in Washington .... I suggest we lobby him.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. well stated as always, H2Oman. i was thinking of the goss letter.....
and i'd like to see a letter emphasizing how partisan Goss is. i just have to do some research and to get my ammo. if anyone has any info that can help, i'd sure appreciate it. i'll post my letter when i'm done.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. merh wrote a good letter
that can be found on the Plamegate thread, and on the Plastic Ono Plame thread. It is very well-written

If you write another one, it would be very helpful if you could post it and let others use it. We need to have a few letters, so that it's not viewed as a limited campaign.

Anyone else that is able to assist, please do! We need to get as many people adding to a cooperative effort as possible. This includes anyone with links to other groups who are like-minded.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Hey Merh
I'd like to use your letter for my bones if I may? I'll save me time.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Please feel free to use any or all of the letter. It is there to be used
as needed. Revise as you need. It is merely a suggestion and a start. We need to get the message out.

Dear _____________:

I write this letter as a concerned citizen of the United States of America. Our president has named a man to be director of the CIA who, by his own admission, is not qualified to hold the post. "I couldn't get a job with CIA today. I am not qualified...". Mr. Goss made this admission when interviewed and the link to the video of this recorded interview is .

How disconcerting it is to have the president nominate a man that is lacking technical skills that are necessary to perform his duties and to administer his office and the agency. We live in a technical society and it has been reported that the terrorists that threaten our nation are technically savvy. They use the internet and their various computer skills to communicate and plot against our nation, yet the man nominated to the post of director of CIA, in his own words, lacks the skills necessary to function as an agent of the CIA. And I certainly don't have the technical skills, uh, as my children remind me every day: Dad you got to get better on your computer.

This is preposterous. Mr. Goss has been in the Senate long enough to have learned how to effectively operate a computer, but instead he basks in his ignorance and apparently allows others to perform for him. If he were to submit an application to the CIA for the position as an agent or an officer worker he would not be interviewed for the position because he lacks the necessary computer skills, yet this is the man our president wants to head the CIA? How does a man who is happy to remain ignorant of technology lead the agency through the challenges and threats of the dangerous new century"?

The Acting Director of the CIA, John E. McLaughlin, is more than competent to continue as the director of the CIA. The failure to affirm Mr. Goss' appointment will not result in our nation being left with an unqualified person overseeing the post. As Deputy Director of Central Intelligence, Mr. McLaughlin assisted Director George J. Tenet in overseeing the operational, analytic, scientific, and technical activities of the Intelligence Community. He is not technically challenged and he is more qualified than Mr. Goss to serve the nation, which after all, is the ultimate goal of the position.

Senator Pat Roberts, chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, has publicly opined that Goss was not right for the job (prior to the appointment). Senator Roberts specifically advised "My only message to the White House is if they do this, make it an extraordinary person that will get bipartisan support." He added, We do not want a partisan fight right before the election. The appointment of Goss is partisan. Mr. Goss objected to the 9/11 commission investigation; has said that he does not believe the investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent is necessary or legitimate; has publicly opposed the investigation into the prison tortures in Iraq (and elsewhere); and, has openly opposed any investigation into the claims of Ms. Edmund. How can he be the director of our intelligence community when he has no concerns relative to the safety and behavior of our intelligence agents, let alone the nations security and the abuses of power that weaken our reputation and render us vulnerable?

In closing, I simply wish to remind you that it was Mr. Goss that said he lacked the necessary skills and experience to be a CIA agent, let alone the director of the CIA. To quote Mr. Goss, Uh, so, the things that you need to have, I don't have."

With the greatest of concern and sincerity, I am,



For your reference please see the list of quotes from others that oppose the Peter Goss nomination.

"This is the worst appointment that's ever been made to the office of Director of Central Intelligence, because that's an office that needs to be kept above partisan politics."
Retired Admiral Stansfield Turner

"There's one thing Goss really didn't do for the past several yearshe didn't chair the House Intelligence Committee, in spite of what his resum claims. Instead, he did the dead man's float."
Former CIA analyst Larry Johnson

"Goss has never been very distinguished, but he's protected. He's a Bush loyalist and has been in the forefront of those who have tried to place the major blame for the 9-11 attacks on the Agency." Former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro

"This whole appointment is a cheap political trick,"
"One of the recommendations of the <9-11> Commission is that no political appointee be made Director. But this is so clearly political. If Goss isn't a political appointee, than I don't know what is." "This will do nothing but cause more disarray at Langley," Judith Yaphe, former CIA analyst

"I strongly urge the President to look for an individual with unimpeachable, nonpartisan national-security credentials and the stature and independence to bring about much-needed reform of our intelligence agencies." Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W. Va), ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow!!! Deborah Norville on MSNBC ....
has a segment on a documentary that totally exposes the administration for its lies before the Iraqi invasion. There are several guests of great interest. I am particularly impressed by the CI analyst Ray McGovern, who shows how by watching Colin Powell he could tell the whole story was a lie.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. "Arrogant, pompous, obnoxious,
vain, cruel, verbose, a show-off ..... I have been called all of these. Of course, I am." -Howard Cosell

I recognize the moderators need to keep the insults off of here, but I did want to say that of all the names I've been called, "political operative" brought the biggest smile to my face.

Years ago, when I ventured into the dungeons we call "prisons," "jails," and "youth facilities," I found it helpful to teach a method of dispute resolution that a group of Quakers came up with. (Years later, some Native American women helped these Quakers to expand upon it.)

A couple of times on DU, I've thought it might be helpful. I will be the first to admit that there are times I have needed to use it .... because I know that among my many faults are the tendencies to be arrogant, pompous, obnoxious ..... well, you get the picture.

We are all, from time to time, incarcerated by our own misconceptions, and shackled to our own ignorance and self-defeating behaviors. Yet we have the opportunity to move beyond that ..... and we can start today. I hope you join us.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You Know...
I was thinking about this letter earlier and it struck me that when you first came over here you had no idea how much you would like the people here, that they would draw you right in. In fact you could say, as perhaps your friend the Hurricane might, that you've been sucker punched. That is the only reason, after reading about the latest attempt at a contretemps, that I can come up with for you not leaving.

(of course the importance of the work you're committed to might also have something to do with it, but I do think you like us, well most of us anyway, too much to leave.)
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I sure do hope, H2O, that you don't let anyone get to you
so that you are angry enough to leave. We would miss you too much.

You are the reason that many of us stayed interested in this topic in the first place. To heck with the disruptors. Ignore them and keep doing what you have always done.

Three cheers for H2O Man!
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
20. Those Who Insist Something Cannot Be Done
Merely need to stay the hell out of the way of those who are DOING IT.

Carry on, H2O.
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wovenpaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. We won't have this opportunity again
This is so true.
I've been reading all the Plame threads since day one when I was instantly swept up. I've spent many hours absorbing ideas, theories, and revelations like a sponge. I was feeling sorry to see it seem to implode/explode after so much awe-inspiring energy and passion was expended. Now, I feel encouraged that it will continue and evolve.
A very long time lurker, these threads prompted me to register so I could chirp up. I've quietly sent a few letters that you had requested sent, but have felt intimidated by all the great minds here to post any replies.
But, after reading your letter, I realize that true, we don't know each other "face to face", and we'd probably be pleasantly surprised if we did. So, what the heck!
THANK YOU for enabling me to think again. THANK YOU for educating us. It's so easy to become "comfortably numb" (thx,Pink Floyd). I share H20's concern for our democracy-I have been since Reagan was took office. Events have been snowballing over time and I sense that this is really our last chance...if we do have one.
Keep up the good work and I'll be helping where I can!!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Today's Gandhi quote:
"To see the universal and all-pervading Spirit of Truth face to face, one must be able to love the meanest of creation as oneself. And a person who aspires after that cannot afford to keep out of any field of life. That is why my devotion to Truth has drawn me into the field of politics; and I can say that those who think religion has nothing to do with politics do not understand what religion means."
-Mohandas K. Gandhi

Perhaps as the republican convention draws nearer, we should take some time each day to try to reach a Gandhian consciousness. That means that we must forgive those who say nasty things about us, and I mean that. Forgive as we would like to be forgiven. It is an important step in becoming a political operative or a social activist. I am certainly guilty of being impatient with a few people on here from time to time.

I do believe that were we sitting in a room with Gandhi, he would say to get busy writing letters about the Plame case, and especially about the Goss nomination. I believe that Gandhi, were he in the room with us, face to face, would say that in doing this work, we might move beyond the foolishness of the past two weeks. Let's try.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Hey Wovenpaint!
Welcome. Chirp away.
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Welcome, Wovenpaint!
Glad you decided to contribute. Looking forward to hearing more from you!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Wow. Thanks, W20man.
I don't know if I can find time today or tomorrow to give your post the response it deserves. All I can say on first reading (and I need to find the time to read this a second time before I can write anything that might be more useful) is, hang in there.

I appreciate what you've done here at DU and I know many other people do as well. Does that mean we're all going to unite to become the fist you use as a metaphor for what we COULD be? Well, I'll say that in the short run the answer is 'probably not.' However, as you yourself point out, real, significant change is not a short run proposition. It takes a life time, perhaps several, to fully grasp what is taking place and what we can do to CHANGE not only the system which exists outside our own bodies but that INNER system that gives the outer one force and power.

Please don't go away or get fed up or frustrated with this forum. WE NEED YOU and people like you.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thank you.
You are very kind, and I do appreciate that. And there is no need for concern about my withdrawing from DU .... I've found that a lot of the real America is right here.

I'm a parent. I have four children. And so I think a lot about what kind of country I want for them. There is a work crew here this week, putting a new roof on my house, and my boys and their friends are hired on as assistants. I am listening to the older men talk to the guys who are in their late teens and early 20s. And the conversation is about how society has changed. The older guys, who are in their 50s, are democrats. They work hard for their money. They are the foundation of the community. Though I'm tempted to go out and add my two cents, I won't .... I'll just sit back and enjoy another good part of America.

And at the same time, I realize that America includes a certain amount of turmoil, and that not everyone is going to get along all of the time. Perhaps what is needed is a better way to discuss concerns, without those concerns becoming fights. But what has happened here happens in groups everywhere, and I have no regrets. I'm hoping that within a short time, all of those people with hurt feelings or anger will be back taking part in a coordinated effort. There's room for a lot of different kinds of trees in a forest.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. Fear inhibits risk...
Edited on Fri Aug-20-04 01:47 PM by LeftHander
Excellent post H2O Dude...

These is no denying that whenever minds gather to question the motives of those in power the seeds of mistrust are sown by thier enemies.

You are quite right to focus the discussion. I have followed the Plame threads with great interest. I am not a famous person nor do I pretend to be anything other than a concerned citizen.

I am afraid to reveal who I am as I leave my blog address at the bottom of each post. It doesn't take a slueth to figure out who I am.

I don't care if Freepers come knocking on my door or leave me nasty messeges. (They have). Because I know that we have something better that "god" on our side. We have the truth. I am just a simple musician trying to make living, raise a family and live a decent life.

I became active because the right has managed to gain control of the truth. Because of the total lack of morality in the part of those in power "truth" no longer means anything to the vast majority of Americans. We have been lied to. Cheated and personally attacked with hateful glee for too many years now. We have been ushered to war that has become a basis of re-electing the President. WAR! Based on lies!

I will say now that soon the far right will have to pay the price of thier foolish attempts at molding America into a nation/god.

Thier arrogance will ultimately be thier undoing and the Plame case is as the thread says "the tip of the iceberg".

Plame represents the arrogance and is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of the right. So easy to describe and so easy to see. When I tell people who know nothing of the case (many do) they struggle to wrap their heads around it then slowly they say..."that is really awful."

Plame represents the last vestige of the America created by our founding fathers. An America built on justice and the rule of law. (As Jim Baker liked to say during the 2000 election) If the Plame case fades away then truth and justice are truely dead. America in essence will no longer really exist.

When the leaders of this nation ignore the rule of law then we have really nothing anymore. THough it can be said that it has happened repeatedly in history it all really builds up to this moment in time. This moment of clarity. Where the obvious violation of the law is in plain sight. Easy to comprehend by the man on the street. If people are not held accountable then all hope is lost. (The same can be said of Abu Ghraib too as it is another example of arrogance and fear gone mad.)

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thank you!
I've had a tremendous amount of support from a wide range of people on DU in the last 24 hours. And that's really nice. A few of my favorites included a beautiful poem sent by a person who summed up the essence of my letter in verse; notes by people who disagree with some of what I say, but who have a passion for open and frank debate; and people like yourself, who have understood not only what I've said, but why I've said it. That's reward enough for me.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. The Timetable.
Rust never sleeps.

A gearhead has a certain respect for rust.

If you have ever seen a K-code Mustang GT convertible break in two because of rust, you must respect the power that corrosion has to take a beautiful human creation and render it to dust. A little each day. A little each night. Day by day, night by night. First the floorpans, then the subframes and then the rockers.

The hull.

The load bearing beams.


The seeds of the American coup were planted in the early 1930s. The parent plans spread their seeds in the late 1960s/early 1970s. Like Kudzu in the south, this weed of evil has encroached on every area of public and private life.

Extremists on the schoolboards.

Extremists in the hospitals.

Extremists in the pharmacies.

Extremists on the police force.

Extremists in the local courts.

Extremists on the local regulatory boards.

Extremists in the local media.

They cover all that we need and love, and create the conditions where rust can occur. By design.

The rotting of our freedoms and liberties has been induced for over 30 years. Day by day, and night by night.

These people have invested several generations worth of time to acheive their evil goals. They have invested great effort to reduce the general intelligence of the populace. They have worked very hard to induce kneejerk hatred responses to certain patterns of speech and literature. They are getting better at it day by day.

There will be no ultimate victory over these people in my lifetime. It will take a massive investment of effort over several generations to even hope to prevail. Every small victory must be bolstered and bolstered and bolstered again. Even if we win the trifecta in November (Exec branch and two houses of congress), the battle will have only just begun.

I can't write for shit. I am worse at conversation. I have CRS. I have a bit of a temper. But I can fix just about anything and I can brew a decent pot of Java.

Waterman, if you ever leave DU, take me with you and tell me where to go. Put me in the engine room. I'll do my best to keep the train running and I'll keep the coffee hot.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I think you write very well.....
and on behalf of the entire group, thank you for that fantastic chart!

I think that your point about the method of changing slowly, from the local town, city, and schools boards, is 100% accurate. They built a foundation. It's the hard, dirty work. Takes a lot of time. People don't see it, because it's beneath the surface. But it's the most important part of the building.

Grass roots politics means reclaiming that school board. It means making sure the right people are running the library. Not everyone is cut out to be on a board, but everyone can support the best democratic candidate.

Bush made people laugh a week ago, talking about sovereignty to some Indian people. Well, sovereignty isn't something the US government "gave" Indian people. Sovereignty is who you are -- it's inside. Likewise, the Bill of Rights isn't anything the government gives us. No, it's ours. It belongs to us. And some of us need to remind the rest of America that these are rights that define who we are. Freedom and liberty are things that we own, and that a group of people who do not believe in, are trying to take away.

Thanks for your support. We have a good group of people here.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Praise to fishface for showing the chart to DU.

However, he does not mention what story contained it. So, I'll bump the post with that question.

Thanks for everything!
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. I agree with you
Especially about GG being able to write very well, he possesses an acute insight as well, as do you. I try to avoid local politics because I see most of it as a cat fight, nevertheless I am a community activist. I am the senior member of my town's plan commission and also volunteer time as president of colt league baseball. In our very local political spectrum, there are no D's or R's, just "Citizens United" or other such village oriented parties. By staying above the fray, I have been re-appointed by four different administrations and have been able to work for change, and voice my opinion in public forums for 14 years.

While my voice is small, it is also important locally. ALL the local boards are important and DO have influence. They are also very rewarding. Everyone, PLEASE GET INVOLVED!!

Nice original post H20 Man, nice thread. I've been otherwise engaged the past few days and have not been able to keep up on the post Plame thread break-up. It would seem in good hands on all accounts. All avenues of pursuit against these bastards are important and some will naturally gravitate one way or another, and that is fine. There is so much fodder with witch to work, but personally I believe that Plame-gate is the best chance to do serious damage to bushco in the short time left before the election.

Peace my friends!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. "local politics" are tough!
I have been involved in local politics in my area since I was a teen-ager. It's intense. But there is no better "training grounds" for the county, then state level.

Regarding the Plame threads, things appear to have calmed down. I still read many of the other folks' threads, and am impressed with their work. And only time will tell if the "divorce" works out. (grin) About the time a few indictments are handed down, people might put the foolishness of the past far behind us.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Thanks for the post Gearhead, you forgot to mention
an organization that they love to dominate and use to their advantage and that is the local Chambers of Commerce. The chambers used to be organization for small business owners to utilize to help with the organizations and advertisements. Small business owners would meet once a month to share ideas and complaints and try to help each other. The GOP recognized the access the chambers had and infiltrated them. Now the majority of chambers believe that the GOP is the party that will save them and that the democratic party just wants to tax them and see that "free loaders" are given a free ride, at their expense.

Over the last 8 years the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has spent millions if not billions of dollars to promote their candidates for political offices, generally judges. Since they are not acting for the candidate, their ads are not considered political, but special interests ads, thus the amount spent on the ads does not have to be reported by the candidate and is not limited. For years, the U.S. Chamber has been using the loophole in the FEC regulations that the GOP is now complaining MoveOn is abusing for the benefit of RW conservative candidates. Thus, the GOP has been very successful in infiltrating and taking over this grassroots organization.

If not for the propaganda of the GOP, small business owners would recognize that the democratic party is their party since the dems want to curtail the take over and profits of the large corporations at the expense of the small businesses. :shrug:

We dems have to get the truth out and fight against the GOP's propaganda.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Good point.
People might be surprised how organizations like the Chamber of Commerce and the Rotary are used to promote republican causes in the small towns and big cities across the country. The internet allows an interested person to follow their trail, and it tends to show an organized effort to control communities from the local level up.

If democrats don't figure out this simple lesson, and begin to take control on the community level, then it is unlikely that they will be able to take back control of their state government. You may have a democrat in the state house or the House of Representatives, but if you don't have community control, those democrats in high places do the biding of the republicans.

The book "Crimes Against Nature," by Robert Kennedy, Jr, tells about the problems communities face when we have a fascist government. Big business can, and does, destroy the well-being of a community, and no republican town or city board can stop them.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Ohne Wasser
geht's nicht. :loveya:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. water is the first
law of nature & life on earth. Thank you for your kind support.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. How many of us have sent
letters to congressional representatives (House & Senate) to protest the Goss nomination? How about letters-to-the-editor regarding the Plame grand jury?
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. my letter went to the dem. members of the Senate Intelligence Committee
fast & easy, use the email addresses listed here:

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Signed & Sealed
letters to Clinton, Schumer. Nadler & Rangel. Email to Michael Moore.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:04 AM
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
40. An interesting Plame article ....
by Dara Purvis, in "The Raw Story," (a liberal alternative to drudge). The story is "Matt Cooper: First Amendment Martyr." See;
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Also of interest .....
consevative journalist Cal Thomas, while on Fox News Watch, said the Plame grand jury case is not a true 1st amendment question, because the reporters are not protecting a whistle-blower, but are helping the White House in a cover-up. Thomas said the administration should "end the problem immediately" by identifying the leakers.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
44. Plame news
1- the Binghamton, NY's Press & Sun-Bulletin:

2- a Houston comedy that states: "What is still unclear is whether Plame was in fact a covert agent ..." See:

3- and the long, hot summer for the 1st amendment at:

all are found at news at google (Plame)
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