Would Dean announce Clark as his running mate before primaries start?

[kentuck]

Would this help him or hurt him? I would think it would be advantageous to him to have the military expertise on the ticket, since we can be assured that the incompetent Chimp in Chief will run as the military leader of our country, protecting us from those evil DUers...

It would be unprecedented, I think? I don't know of any other candidate in history that announced his VP before the primary process? However, why shouldn't he? If Clark is agreeable to the idea? And I have thought all along that Clark is running for the VP ticket.

[TakebackAmerica]

1. "Would Clark announce Dean as his running mate before primaries start?"

That's more like it!

[kentuck]

I don't think so...

But I could support him in the VP position this time, although with the influence of the military, Patriot Act, etc, I am very wary of voting for anybody even indirectly connected with the military. Just my opinion.

[Pepperbelly]

3. Clark does NOT

favor the Patriot Act. In fact, he is quite troubled by it, particularly the haste with which it passed Congress. The habeas provision really bother him.

[kentuck]

5. Sorry Pepperbelly...I did not mean to insinuate that...

What I meant to say is that with the Patriot Act being enacted, the secrecy, the military adventures presently going on, etc, I would be very hesitant to vote for any military man at the top of the ticket or even as the VP under normal circumstances. But these are not normal circumstances, so I could support Clark as VP but not as the head of the ticket. Just my opinion. I'm sure he is a good man. We simply do not need more military involvement in our government. We need less.

[Pepperbelly]

7. Personally ...

I think that Clark would be far less likely to "pull the trigger" than any other candidate running. I think that he experientially views war as the tragedy that it is and would never enter into it when there was any other recourse.

He believes in diplomacy.

[kentuck]

18. you may be right....

but 34 years in the military??

[Pepperbelly]

21. Wesley was raised lower middle class ...

The West Point appointment was his ticket to a world-class education and a career. He excelled and he learned. He learned to hate war. Ike wasn't very hot to start shooting either.

[kentuck]

26. I realize that you know him personally, Pepperbelly...

but these are such treacherous waters, do you really think people are willing to gamble with a lifetime military man? I'm sure he is a good man but I do not know what his many connections are thru his military years and I just think it would be a gamble for the country to elect a military person at this point in time. We need a very strong civilian leader.

[Pepperbelly]

28. I guess this is a fight we will have to carry to the ballot box and ...

may the very best candidate win.

:toast:

[kentuck]

29. Yep!

:)

[disgruntella]

35. we need strong military AND civilian leaders in 2004

I am against the current war in Iraq, but it's not going to go away whether an anti-war candidate is elected or not. This is why I think a lot of people are intrigued by Clark (well, me anyway...)

I'm glad that Dean came out publicly against the war, it was about time someone in the Democratic party got aggressive and tapped people's frustration with Bush's fiasco. But at this point, I'd prefer to hear more about how Dean would handle the Iraq situation if elected -- rather than hear him denounce the war again. (I will be going to Dean's site to see what he has said on the subject so far.)

As for being a "career military man" -- I could make plenty of arguments for not supporting "Doctor" Dean based on the medical establishment. I won't do either, though ;-) I'll be looking at the political platforms of both (assuming Clark does run).

Edit: FYI - I found Dean policy info on Iraq on his site: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_foreign_iraq - time for me to start reading.

[Sinistrous]

40. I admit there are too many George Patton wannabes in the military

but there are those in the military (and I believe Clark is one of them) who know war and who would use it only as the ultimate last resort. My view of the roster of military personnel is that it is a mixed bag: some of the finest people I ever met were career military, as were some of the worst.

[shockandawed]

4. Please...

Be rational. Clark has no chance. He is out fishing for the lead horse to try to become the next Al Gore, so boring he is perfect for the Senate tie breaker seat. If someone takes out Dean, Clark will take the lead tank. But really, how can people expect that a general (i dont care what party) can be the voice of the anti war party? Are we that devoid of civilian leaders. I do not want a trained military man with disgusting links to military contractors as bad as any republican in the fucking white house.

If he wants to hang out in the Naval home down the street, fine.

[tjdee]

8. The Democratic Party is the "anti-war" party?

Really?

[Pepperbelly]

10. You don't know Wesley if that is what you believe.

If he runs for President, it will be because he intends to win.

edit: BTW, your insinuations about Wesley's honesty is unfounded, contemptable, and utterly baseless. In fact, I would think that sort of imprudent language labels you far more than the intended victim of your smear.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. That Was A Mean Spirited Thing To Say

Peace

[ShaneGR]

47. Anti-War party????

The anti-war part of the Democratic party is but one piece of a big machine. Conservatives are the ones trying pin that tag on us. I may have been against an Iraqi occupation, but I was for Afghanistan, Kosovo, and Gulf War 1. In fact, I thought we should have focused our attention on Afghanistan instead of creating new problems for ourselves.

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

2. Clark's goin for the top

I have seen every Clark appearance on the talkshows the last three months (except his appearances on Fox), and I can say - without a doubt - that Clark wants the top of the ticket, and he believes he can win the Dem nomination and defeat Bush. Additionally, I don't believe either Dean or Clark would like to be at the bottom of the other's ticket. Both are too proud and egocentric for that to happen.

[shockandawed]

11. yeah, so what?

I would like to be president too. Issa wanted to be governor. You do what you are told so you dont look like an idiot. Clark would weaken any race he joined by splintering. He is this year's Nader, an narrowly focused idealist that will splinter the party, dilute our message and promote infighting.

Clark for VP, Defense Secretary, or head of the Tribunal in charge of prosecuting the PNAC members, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others. He has the credibility to try these scum for their war crimes. Other than that, he is only neat because he is the first soldier to come along in a while that did not scare the fuck out of you, and you are confused, and still a little scared from 9/11 and a war man is a guilty pleasure. But Clark is not a politician.

[Pepperbelly]

16. Personally ...

I am pretty fucking sick of politicians anyway.

[tjdee]

17. What are you TALKING about?

Splintering the party? Diluting the message?

Uh--HUH?

Boy, I know that RADICAL Clark has all kinds of radical ideas.... like pro-affirmative action, pro-choice, etc. etc. etc.

His view that the war on Iraq was wrong would just split the party in two!

The fact that he's diametrically opposed to Tom Delay! Well, we just can't have that in a Democratic party, can we!

:eyes:

[kentuck]

22. Why do we have to be so loud and confrontational about it ?

You sound like you would vote for Bush before you would vote for Clark?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Narrowly Focused Idealist

Care to Elaborate


Supposition is no substitute for analysis.

[vvera]

6. Gore/Clark would be the real dream team.

For a number of reasons I think think would be a the perfect combo.

[shockandawed]

13. yeah, if you are having trouble sleeping

[kentuck]

25. You don't like Clark and you don't like Gore ??

Not only do you not like them, it sounds as if you extremely dislike them?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. Thank You

Whatever you say about Al Gore he is a decent guy.


And I didn't think he was boring.

His acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention was one of the better ones I have seen.

[IndianaGreen]

9. It would be the height of arrogance for any candidate

to announce a running mate before securing the nomination. It would be the height of stupidity to do so before a single vote is cast in the primaries.

The one and only criteria for a running mate is what would he or she bring to the ticket?

Aren't we long overdue for a minority running mate? How about Cruz Bustamante if he wins the recall election?

[tjdee]

15. Bustamante, as in Lieberman's campaign's chair in CA?

The man supports Lieberman, which makes sense to me considering how boring each is.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Cruz is our man in Sacramento

and Davis is not going to win the recall, even Big Dog is staying out of it now.

[tjdee]

23. Yes, and I support him in that endeavor if the recall goes forward...

but I don't think he's VP material, personally.

Having only seen him live once, maybe I should shut my mouth, but at first glance he strikes me as a worker bee, almost similar to McBride in that he seems not to be the most exciting fellow in the world.

I think a worker bee is what California needs, especially when you compare him with a vacuous tomato like Schwarzenneger, and he seems to have detailed plans and goals, I'm certainly in his corner for CA...but putting him on a national ticket....I don't know about that. Plus, what does it say about him that he thinks that Joe Lieberman is the man to beat Bush?

[tjdee]

12. Of course he wouldn't.

For all we know, seriously, Dean saw Clark on CNN and called him up to discuss foreign issues.

Recognizing Clark's authority on foreign policy and meeting with him does not indicate anything further.

[Cush]

14. my guess:

they have a deal to be the others VP candidate

[w4rma]

32. maybe

…
What started as a point-by-point review of his economic and health care policies turned quickly into his dissertation on foreign affairs in Cuba, Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Iraq. Dean has been getting tutored on foreign policy by numerous experts, including retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar. He has also had several private conversations with retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander who some Democrats see as an attractive running mate for Dean if Clark does not join the race himself.
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34389-2003Aug22.html

[BuelahWitch]

38. I would support either ticket

Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean. The "Clean" against the Bush and Dick...

[poskonig]

20. No, and a bad idea.

Getting a military VP now makes it look like Dean cannot hold his own. The mediawhores particularly will spin it as Dean being weak on the defense. As Dean savages Bush on North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, et cetera, this distraction doesn't create many advantages for us.

After Dean wins the nomination, Dean-Clark has a nice ring to it, and they would complement each other well.

[Pepperbelly]

24. Well ...

we won't know who wins until some votes are cast, eh? I don't know that I'd go counting my chickens before they are hatched.

[kentuck]

27. Very true Pepperbelly...

and I did read that the Draft Clark committee had raised $700K dollars. That's a pretty good start if he were so inclined. However, I could not see why he would not have already announced if that were his intentions. I am inclined to believe that his hesitancy leads to a non-run as a candidate. However, he has really built up his credentials for the VP slot. :)

[Pepperbelly]

31. old friend Kentuck ...

indulge me for a moment and iamagine that what Wesley is doing is telling the truth.

His family is not down with the run. The reasons are obvious, not the least of which is the abrupt and permanent change in lifestyle if he is successful. His wife has trepidations and what she thinks is quite important to him as it should be.

Flatly, he will not run if he cannot persuade her to support it 100%. And that is still up in the air. BTW, if he decides to run, it will be to win and thusfar, he has never failed at what he has tried to do and that might well be the stickler in his wife's equation on the matter. She will have to assume that he will win and we know how that would change one's life, particularly when they are at a point where they can settle down and simply enjoy the fruit of his long labor.

Just a thought. I mean, the man is NOT a politician and is it so tough to believe that he is merely telling the truth?

[IndianaGreen]

30. If we are going to have an ex-military VP, I'll take Shinseki over Clark

Enough of white men for higher office!

Shinseki was the one that predicted what is happening in Iraq today, and he was Army Chief of Staff at the time!

Shinseki's military record is far more stellar than Clark's, plus he lost one leg in combat.

'My name is Shinseki and I am a soldier'

WOODRIDGE, Illinois -- The subject of my first Inquirer column a few months ago was the visit to Manila of Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, the US Army chief of staff. The visit was billed by defense officials as a "traditional courtesy call prior to his retirement next June." I pointed out that it has never been traditional for US Army chiefs of staff to call on Philippine counterparts before their retirement. There must have been other reasons for the general's trip, classified, top secret.

Whatever that reason may have been, it was the man himself, his personal background in particular, which caught my attention.

As I mentioned in the column, Shinseki's grandfather was a Japanese who grew up in Hiroshima and later migrated to Hawaii during the early part of the 20th century working on the pineapple and sugarcane plantations there. His parents were niseis (second generation US-born descendants of Japanese immigrants) and Shinseki himself is a sansei (third generation US-born).

http://www.inq7.net/opi/2003/jun/22/opi_rjfarolan-1.htm

[w4rma]

34. There are other issues other than the invasion of Iraq

From what little I've seen of Gen. Clark, he seems to have a pretty decent handle on the issues and he seems to be friends with or at least gets along with Gov. Dean.

…
What started as a point-by-point review of his economic and health care policies turned quickly into his dissertation on foreign affairs in Cuba, Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Iraq. Dean has been getting tutored on foreign policy by numerous experts, including retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar. He has also had several private conversations with retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander who some Democrats see as an attractive running mate for Dean if Clark does not join the race himself.
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34389-2003Aug22.html

[Julien Sorel]

36. Two comments:

Acknowledging the presence of his wife Patty, he praised her selflessness, elegance and courage. "You have seen me at my worst and stuck with me... and you've seen me at my best and chuckled in disbelief. Throughout it all, your patience, your balance, your encouragement and your love and support have sustained me. You stood beside my hospital bed for days, helped me learn to walk a second time, enabled me to regain confidence and a sense of direction, helped me reestablish a professional career, moved our children and our household 31 times and always, always, provided great strength when it was needed most. You could have been and done anything you chose... yet you chose to be a soldier's wife. The profound grace of that decision has blessed me immeasurably."

This was truly touching -- his wife must be an amazing woman, and he must be a pretty high-class guy to have deserved her.

And,

Shinseki's tour of duty as chief of staff was marked by clashes with Pentagon officials specifically Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz. One issue had to do with the size of the peacekeeping force required for postwar Iraq. Shinseki went on record mentioning some 200,000 troops, a figure Wolfowitz publicly dismissed as "wildly off the mark." As things now stand, it would appear that Shinseki was not too far off the mark. Both Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz were no-shows at Shinseki's last formation.

How low-class can you be. The least these two chicken hawks could have done was to show up at the retirement of The Chief Of Staff for the United States Army, whatever professional differences they had. Shinseki clearly exemplified the very best this country stands for; that deserves honoring, regardless of their differing visions over the future of the military. What punks.


I remember when Shinseki retired people were hoping he'd run for office. I doubt it will happen, but one can hope.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I Read Shinseki Is Going To Run For a Senate Seat In Hawaii

as a Dem.

That's a good fit....

[w4rma]

46. There is some speculation that Shinseki might run for Senate at some point

…
Some Washington pundits speculated this week that Shinseki could run for the Senate from Hawaii either as a Democrat or a Republican, and a former Pentagon official in the first Bush administration has said Shinseki “may be feathering his Hawaiian political nest already.”

He was nominated to lead the Army during the Democratic Clinton administration by Clinton’s Republican defense secretary, William Cohen. Shinseki has not trumpeted a political affiliation and has no background in politics.

The outgoing Army chief has left his imprint on one major military project that is expected to provide a boost for Hawaii as a base for U.S. military operations. He’s arranged for one of the brigades built around the new eight-wheeled Stryker vehicles to be based in the state.

“Should the time come for Shinseki to run for Inouye’s Senate seat, he’ll be able to claim credit for the $1 billion Stryker brigade to be stationed in Hawaii,” wrote Jed Babbin, former deputy undersecretary of defense, in an article published in March for the conservative National Review.

Babbin speculated that Inouye may be grooming Shinseki “to take over his own seat in the Senate in the next few years.”
…
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1932128.php
http://www.unlearnedhand.com/archives/000376.html

…
On Japanese-American chatlines, he is characterised as a victim of racism. Certainly in that community he is an authentic hero: "One of the most gracious, soft-spoken, low-key individuals you could meet with four stars on his shoulder," according to Kristine Manami of the Japanese-American Citizens' League.

Put it all together: a nice man, a wounded veteran - and maybe right when it mattered. Despite the allegations, his politics are unknown. But if he is a Democrat and chooses to go after one of Hawaii's Senate seats, he might have a platform for some very tasty revenge indeed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,925140,00.html

[Kamika]

33. if he does that hell become the next president

Im sure of that.

[snyttri]

37. Clark is probably the more effective spokesman--it would be a shame if

Clark is not out front bashing Bush in the General election.

http://www.digitalclark.com/

[mandyky]

39. It would be good for Dean and Clark to show just how bold they are,

I say go for it.

[poskonig]

43. They'd get the 'nom easy, that's for sure.

eom

[realFedUp]

48. Neither of these guys has Washington experience

Each has to consider getting someone with
experience in Congress IMO.

[KoKo]

49. It would hurt him I think......I don't see a mesh in those two

personalities........At least in their "Public Personas" which is all we here will see unless we knew each of them intimately.

I really can't think of a VP to mesh with Dean at this point. I hope this will be just a dialog between the two of them.

Clark still worries me.....and I can't put my finger on a single thing that jumps out at me....it's his whole package.....that I just don't buy.

So, NO......is my vote...or opinion.......