Red Alert: Hearings today on "Women and Children" in Abu Ghraib

[WilliamPitt]

Received via email:

===

Pentagon in meetings today about female aspects of Abu Ghraib. The issues are
children and women. The Top Brass are being told it is bound to break in the media.

The issues put to me by a reliable source are that kids were dragged in to be
tortured in front of their Mothers by US soldiers. 26 people might go in the frame.
Previously I was told 'about thirty'.

The additional rape allegations (of women) from the male detainees etc are being
taken at face value at the Pentagon. There is tacit acceptance of the claims.

They do not know how many females they processed and most of the kids were kept 'off
the books'. Adverse events at "more than one location". I gather girls were dragged
by drunks to cells, showers, landings and sexually assaulted etc.

===

Keep an eye out for stories today. This may be the dam breaking.

[NewJeffCT]

1. keep us cube rats posted Mr. Pitt

We really appreciate all your great reporting & writing.

[slojim240]

46. Will the hearings be televised?

Where, when? If we don't see it for ourselves, you know we will never get the truth. Look what they did to Kerry for reporting the truth about Viet Nam.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Who will be "brought to justice" for these crimes?

:cry:

[tom_paine]

3. Justice? In Imperial Amerika? I'll believe it when I see it

Maybe some more scapegaoting of "a few bad apples" while the Hessians who ordered it and helped slip silently into the background.

Justice in Imperial Amerika. That's almost as funny as justice in...you guessed it...nazi germany.

Luckily we still have less injustice than Nazi Germany, but I fear that will soon change and the gap wil narrow.

[Domitan]

4. But there's a war in Najaf and other cities

how much press will this receive?

[Tsiyu]

8. Not A Damn Bit

After all, Amber Frey and Laci Peterson are IMPORTANT ISSUES TO ALL AMERICANS. And don't forget the evil empire of Iran. CNN and FU(X) News will cheerfully avoid any "unpleasantness" connected to their Great and Fearless Leader, doncha know.....

[Ripley]

5. Have they now so sullied even the honorable IRC name?

That no one believes them? I recall seeing an IRC woman on a panel months ago discussing what their agency had found in the prisons (hundreds of kids, women raped, etc.) and NO ONE COVERED IT other than CSPAN.

It is sickening the way these monsters in charge have turned good and decent people and organizations into lepers because they are "liberals" or "Red Cross" or "United Nations" or "EU" or "Weapons Inspectors."

Disgusting.

[Cleita]

6. Thanks for keeping us up on this news

because we can't rely on the "liberal" press to do so.

[bluestateguy]

7. If Sy Hersh has a video why doesn't he release the damn thing!

People need to see that this was just a bit more than a "fraternity prank". If he releases the awful video he spoke of, these kinds of atrocities can be put to a stop.

[eleny]

10. I read that he saw the video but doesn't possess it

eom

[Cyrano]

11. I remember that Seymour Hersh said he'd SEEN the video

and that the Pentagon has it.

I can't believe that he has a copy in his possesion and hasn't yet broken this story.

[KoKo]

19. I bet he has it, and if not him, then CBS does. It's out there, but they

may have wanted to wait thinking something would be done...like an investigation of this. Since not much has happened except the American Bar Association calling for an investigation, maybe they are putting the pressure on that they are ready to release the video if something isn't done. :shrug:

[Bernardo de La Paz]

45. Hersh reported the women and children when the story broke in April

[ElementaryPenguin]

9. This is the whole enchalada! BushCo is totally f*cked when this breaks!

Thanks, Will! Can't wait to here the FAUXCNN Media Whore Machine try to spin this as a positive for the evil Busheviks!

[TransitJohn]

12. Kick for righteous anger.

:kick:

[VelmaD]

13. As much as I wish this wasn't true...

I don't know that I think the "public" will care. I mean, they rarely seem to care about women and girls being raped in this country. Why would they care about Iraqi women and girls? *sigh*

[WilliamPitt]

14. UPDATE

Via email again:

1) Dogs used on female detainees.

(2) Young girls kept hooded for days 'at the airport'

(3) Girls sexually assaulted in showers, landings etc. (Abu Ghraib)

(4) Children used as leverage re: Mothers. (Abu Ghraib and Airport)

(5) Drunks (intelligence officers) fought with MPs to get access to the 'younger
girls' (Abu Ghraib)

(6) No special order issued to treat females 'differently' to male security detainees.

(7) Child (leverage hostages) were kept "off the books"

I think those are the themes that are being generally used. I think critical mass
came about because journalists were speaking to hometown returnees. None of the big
five hectored the DoD until the regionals had a go.

They have DC people as well. The Washington Post photos were discussed and they knew
the newspaper had *hundreds* of photos but not a glimpse of a girl and that was
viewed as very unlikely to be anything other than contrived.

I was told there are 'people' who are encouraging the smaller newspapers. Telling
them they are on the right track etc. I took that to mean 'real' informants from the
DoD and Pentagon..

[askew]

15. What are the chances this story will be reported in the Mainstream media?

Because until that happens, the Pentagon and administration can just keep covering up this scandal.

Is there any chance that the UN or another country will investigate these crimes?

[Disturbed]

16. Cover Up from the beginning!

When 60 Min.2 recieved photos they were pressured to not air them for two weeks, so that the situation could be difused as much as possible. Also, they were pressured to only publish to least offensive ones, photos that showed "abuse", sexual humiliation to dull the actual torture, beating, smothering, rapes, deaths (27 so far) of detainees. When the public got weary of the displays the actual torture of detainees was blunted. The Neo Fascists and the Military conspired to cover up the scope of the systematic policy of torture and the 24 secret US prisons situation. The plan was to isolate the situation to Abu Grahaib and focus on the "few bad apples" and cover up the real situation.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Yeah, don't forget about the conveniently timed beheading

that knocked the story off the front pages, never to return with the same intensity of focus.

[Hippo_Tron]

63. I think that there's a chance, but it will be delayed

And if it does make it, it will be a segment on 60 minutes and nothing else.

[RainDog]

27. which regionals?

Thanks for the information, Will, and can you help me understand some of it, since I'm a little confused?

What did you mean about the hundreds of photos and not a glimpse of a girl and this seemed contrived?

Who are "they" who have DC people as well?

I assume the smaller papers are still investigating but have not yet published any articles...or are some of the articles you mention ones that have already been published?

Do you know when this pentagon investigation started? ...Is this a continuation of Taguba's report?

thanks in advance.

[RainDog]

28. 26 people might go in the frame

again, another question...are you referring to video?

[LibertyorDeath]

36. the big five would rather have their eyes gouged out

than have to report to the American public that US Soldiers & or contractors

Tortured Iraqi children in front of their Mothers. They know this will

ruin any chance the Idiot Son has.

I have sent hundreds of emails out about this & received bullshit

auto-responses or non at all in return.

I hope dam is breaking on this I need it to.

[F.Gordon]

81. I'm aware of one journalist....."smaller" newspaper

Focused like a laser on this. I "think" he may be the same journalist that investigated the Iraqi Bridge Tossing story. Not sure?? He is getting little to no help from the Pentagon. Gee, there's a surprise.

In an interview I heard with him a few months back I recall that he received mostly "hate" email. "Why are you wasting your time with this" kinda' email. Very little positive-support email.

I was called a "crackpot" by another DUer recently when I mentioned what I know as fact. US Servicewomen are being treated in VA hospitals right now for rape/gang rape by US Servicemen in Iraq. What I don't know as fact....only speculation.....is that this is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

I'll also tell you another little story I know as fact. I'll just summarize....one particular Serviceman was being treated in the psych ward because he was having a bit of hard time with what he did over in Iraq. His unit was ordered to protect a particular "line". Orders were..."do not let anyone over the wall". That meant ANYONE. The concern was that this was the supply line for bombs being transported in and they wanted to cut off the "supply". Well, this poor kid did what he was told and shot/killed a few women and children trying to get over. Needless to say, this fucked him up in the head a bit. As it would any normal human being.

There is a horrible dark-side to this "war" that won't see the light of day unless someone in Congress decides to act.

Count down till some Pro-Military DUer calls me a "crackpot" for spreading lies to make the "liberals" look like anti-military wackos; Ten, Nine, Eight.....

[GliderGuider]

17. Kick (nt)

.

[Ducks In A Row]

18. I knew the Najaf crap was covering something today

how many of our people will die to distract the whiny media from showing this.

[bluedog]

20. someone break this story

kick

[Vadem]

21. kick!

:kick:

[0007]

22. Can't bebelieve this thread sunk like a rock

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
:kick:
:kick:
:kick:

[Ms. Clio]

25. kick

:kick:

[NightOwwl]

23. Please let this break.

:kick:

[BayouBengal07]

24. Maybe we can get it on the news

We should say a young white woman was kidnapped and taken to Abu Ghraib, and that her husband was on a hunting trip that day.

That or an NBA player or popstar was accused of rape at the prison.

That'll get media attention.

[KoKo]

26. Kick....just to get McGreevey off the front page.....it's bad news that

one, and we need to get back to this awful WAR and what Bush the Nazi is doing to innocent Iraqi's and what's going or should be done about it...

:kick:

[nickgutierrez]

29. Keeping this kicked

Is it fair to guess that there would be some big developments in the next couple of days?

[bpilgrim]

30. R They Bringing Up The Civilian Contractors?

FINALLY!

thanks will :toast:

peace

[Oilwellian]

31. Was the hearing open to the public?

Was the media present? I don't see how this country can ignore the atrocities that are being committed in Iraq. It will take us decades to recover from the war crimes we're guilty of.

Thanks for the heads-up Will. :hi:

[calimary]

32. Will, I am PRAYING! I am PRAYING!

The only way for justice to even begin to be served is to have ALL of these sins out in the open.

Shoot! Wish there was something more I/we could do. Sure wish Seymour Hersh felt like coughing something up. He's seen it all. Why is he holding back? Do they have something on him, or have they threatened him? Or threatened his family?

[Stephanie]

33. Seymour Hersh writes for The New Yorker

He can write it but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll publish it.

[RainDog]

34. Remember, Hersh's remark about this issue

when he spoke before the ACLU, he said The New Yorker (or at least that's the way I recall it) did articles and has waited because of the idea that the Iraqi (I think he said Arab male) people could only stand so much humiliation.

What I wonder is this: how can the U.S. bring any charges against Saddam for torture done under his regime in the same prison without holding Bush responsible for the torture which took place because of his leadership?

Especially in light of the Gonzales memo which is basically a rationale, written for Bush, to justify torture.

[Stephanie]

35. Would you have a link for that memo?

May they all rot in hell.

[RainDog]

38. here's a portion

This article discusses the memo and McClellan's spin:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26401-2004Jun8.html

Wednesday, June 9, 2004; Page A03

"The disclosure that the Justice Department advised the White House in 2002 that the torture of al Qaeda terrorist suspects might be legally defensible has focused new attention on the role President Bush played in setting the rules for interrogations in the war on terrorism."

Here is the link to a portion of the memo and other documents:

http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/torture/30603wgrpt.html

[Stephanie]

50. thanks so much!

I guess I'll just hold my breath until the impeachment hearings start? and the war crimes tribunals?

[Sliverofhope]

39. kick n/t

[merh]

40. Keep this story alive

It has to break

Kick, kick, kick

[Ms. Clio]

69. kick

[Zorra]

41. This is the saddest news. Americans torturing children in front of the

childrens mothers.

And republicans will continue to support Bu$h and his war of aggression.

They are all the same creatures as the Nazis were.

The very same.

[juajen]

42. Will, I assume you mean "secret" hearings

Can't believe they would every hold open meetings.

:kick: :kick:

[Generic Other]

43. How long after I read it on DU does the average "scandal" break

in the mainstream press? A few weeks or months? As long as a year?

What an ugly shameful story.

[nofurylike]

44. kick n/t

[Quahog]

47. Hopeful kick

I have a feeling this is going nowhere, though. The American mindset is epitomized in the reality TV series... the attention span is a few weeks or months, then once the last contestant is voted off the island or out of the mansion, the story is over.

Abu Grahib is so last season.

[NewJeffCT]

48. nary a peep up my way

And, I'm in a pretty blue state in CT.

[mopaul]

49. time for the color coded chart to go candy apple red

[Q]

51. Yeah, sure...we'll wait for the 'dam to break'....

...are you joking? How many times have we had this same 'discussion' about scandals ready to break?

- Certainly YOU know by now that there's no such thing as a scandal in the Bush* government? The old system that brought scandals to light and then did something about them is dead and gone. The courts are stacked, investigative journalism is dead and the government serves itself.

- Bush* may or may not stay in office after November...but NONE of these scandals will ever touch him and the guilty parties will go free.

[RainDog]

54. The Republican Congress is ultimately responsible

For allowing all the abuses of power by the Bushies.

Think of all the scandals that HAVE been reported...and Congress has done nothing, or worse, has ACTIVELY blocked attempts at justice.

They are the ones who have the responsibility to hold the hearings and investigate and serve as a check and balance.

They have failed the American people over and over and served as the handmaidens to torture themselves by their own justifications.

If they continue to aid and abet crimes against humanity, they, too, should be charged with that crime and held accountable.

It's so much bullshit for republicans to claim they support "law andd order" yet refuse to hold Bush and crew accountable.

If the American people cared about justice, they'd also vote out the scumbags who justify torture in Congress, too.

[Wind Dancer]

61. I agree completely!

It's a disgrace to this country, * is never held accountable for anything. Never in our history have we had such a corrupt group of people holding the highest political positions.

[radwriter0555]

52. Well they do like to break this stuff on evenings and weekends when the

US public is off the grid...

[gasperc]

53. been waiting weeks since we heard about the "screeching boy" tapes

I thought this was going to spill over weeks ago, I sense a huge effort to keep these stories under raps

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. It's about damn time.

NOW.....which journalist will have the balls to report on it?

[merh]

56. Will

Anything new with this? What's up, where did the story go?

[IdaBriggs]

57. Kick.

I hope I am doing this right -- I just want to keep this on the front page...? Any more news...?

[liveoaktx]

58. Not women or children but saw Abu Ghraib interview on Mosaic

which appeared on Abu Dhabi tv, not US, replayed on Mosaic/LinkTV

Abu Ghraib

[LibertyorDeath]

59. Thanks for this

[Wind Dancer]

60. Sy Hersh's new book will be available

September 13th:


Chain of Command: The Road from 9/11 to Abu Ghraib

From the Publisher
From the brilliant investigative reporter who exposed the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, a revealing and unflinching look behind the public story of the Bush Administration’s “war on terror,” its intelligence failures, and the lies and obsessions that led America into Iraq.
Thirty-five years ago, Seymour Hersh established himself at the forefront of investigative journalism with an expose of the massacre in My Lai, Vietnam, for which he won a Pulitzer Prize. Ever since, he’s been a relentless thorn in the side of America’s power elite, plumbing Washington back channels and the intelligence community for the stories that others can’t or won’t tell. In the crises that followed the September 11th attacks, Hersh found a challenge equal to his explosive energy. From the hunt for the hijackers to the dubious claims about weapons of mass destruction, Hersh has delivered inspired pieces that have been met with both acclaim and outrage-including his breakthrough reporting on Abu Ghraib, which helped redraw the political landscape in the crucial months before the 2004 elections. This much anticipated collection of his New Yorker writings since 2001 is a revealing and unflinching look behind the public story of the Bush Administration’s “war on terror,” its intelligence failures, and the lies and obsessions that led America into Iraq. With an introduction by New Yorker editor David Remnick, it includes a number of previously unpublished stories, as well as an account of Hersh’s pursuit of the Abu Ghraib piece and of where, he believes, responsibility for the scandal ultimately lies.


This is so heartbreaking, these war criminals need to be prosecuted NOW. Hopefully, Sy Hersh will reveal more of the story in his book, we can't let the government get away with this.

[Cerridwen]

62. Kick

:cry:

[Cerridwen]

64. Kick

[Ladyhawk]

65. Got any more for us, Will? n/t

:kick:

[RainDog]

66. Seems like The Baltimore Sun

The Baltimore Sun has been cited a couple of articles I've read concerning the abuse investigation (The NYTimes and something online).

Looks like the Sun might be a newspaper to watch for articles on this subject, since bigger dogs are getting info from them.

[TrustingDog]

67. kick

[RainDog]

68. Kick for some justice

[RainDog]

70. Will said to keep an eye out for stories...

Here are two, and neither looks good for truth or justice, but Rummy, of course, again takes no responsibility for his failure.

He did not have to take responsibility for being in a meeting with Wolfowitz for 30 minutes...for some reason, no one on his staff knew where to find him? He did not have to take responsibility for trying to invade Iraq on the cheap and thus being responsible for, along with those who actually dummied up the lies to justify, the invasion of Iraq.

Why should the rest of the world see us as anything but sadistic bastards if Bush and crew are not held accountable? What a travesty for this nation.

So it seems like the 26 frame I was asking about must mean that about two dozen people will take the blame.

Rumsfield Escapes Blame
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/Region2.asp?ArticleID...
 By Julian Coman

Washington: A Pentagon report on prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison is being labelled a whitewash before it has even been released...

...Critics are arguing that its final conclusions, some of which were leaked last week to the Baltimore Sun, amount to a deliberate cover-up to protect senior military and civilian figures in the Pentagon.

Due to be published by the end of the month, the report will call for disciplinary procedures to be launched against up to two dozen military intelligence officers.

Even more controversially, the role of the Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, has been judged to be outside the investigation's remit, despite allegations that extreme treatment of prisoners was authorised at the highest levels.

(more)

If you can get to the Daily Star, a paper out of Lebanon, there's a piece --I keep getting a server error and can't get to it... but it seems to be available via this link:

http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=1&p=4777&s2=14

Can The Pentagon Be Trusted to Investigate Itself?

William Fisher

Saturday, August 14, 2004 - Today, an investigative panel will issue a report on abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. The panel was appointed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and is headed by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger. Its mission is to review detention operations and to advise Rumsfeld on the "cause of the problems and what should be done to fix them."

Other than this report, and the July 22 testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee by the Army's Inspector General, Lieutenant General Paul Mikolashek, the prisoner abuse issue has disappeared from the public radar. Mikolashek angered senators when he said at a hurriedly convened meeting that he had found "no systemic problems" of abuse. The Pentagon has launched six reviews into the treatment of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan. However, none is really designed to probe the role of senior officers or the civilian leadership at the Pentagon, or relevant policies they may have developed.

Nor has the Schlesinger panel provided much reassurance in this regard. It includes members of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board and, as reported by Jim Lobe, its unpaid executive director, James Blackwell, has done Pentagon consulting for a company that was the seventh-largest recipient of defense contract awards in fiscal year 2002. Further, Human Rights Watch said it has learned from Pentagon sources that "those working on the outstanding investigations are under tremendous pressure not to implicate top officials." The organization also claimed that Rumsfeld was in frequent contact with the panel, thus raising "additional questions about its independence."
One of the more troubling aspects of the various Abu Ghraib investigations is that none include the Central Intelligence Agency.

Yet mistreatment of prisoners would be nothing new to the agency. The CIA has a long history of prisoner abuse, including involvement in interrogation abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan, and well-documented evidence that it has systematically engaged in "rendering" - secretly taking detainees to countries known to use torture in their prisons, and leaving them there for interrogation.
(more)

[RainDog]

72. This guy saw what was coming way back in May

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58765-2004May26.html

By Bradley Graham

Thursday, May 27, 2004; Page A14

But some military lawyers, lawmakers and defense experts point to what they see as fundamental shortcomings: Most of the probes involve the Army investigating itself, they say, and each investigation is focused on only one aspect or another of the burgeoning scandal -- the role of military intelligence personnel who served as interrogators, for instance, or the adequacy of training of reservists or the need for revisions in Army training and doctrine.

No investigating authority has been given the specific task of assessing the roles of top authorities either in the U.S. Central Command or at the Pentagon. In past high-profile cases, including the 1991 Tailhook scandal, the 1996 bombing in Saudi Arabia of an Air Force barracks and the 2000 attack in Yemen on the USS Cole, inquiries conducted by the affected military branches were criticized by investigators from outside the services for focusing on lower ranks and neglecting to assess supervision up the chain of command.

"I really doubt whether the Defense Department can investigate itself, because there's a possibility the secretary himself authorized certain actions," said Wayne A. Downing, a retired four-star Army general who headed a Pentagon task force that examined the Air Force barracks case. "This cries out for an outside commission to investigate."

The closest the Pentagon has come to initiating an overarching independent review of detainee treatment is Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's appointment May 7 of a four-member panel to help advise him. The panelists include two former defense secretaries (James R. Schlesinger and Harold Brown), a retired Air Force general (Charles A. Horner) and a onetime Republican House member from Florida (Tillie Fowler).

Schlesinger, the panel's chairman, said in a brief interview yesterday that the roles of top commanders, the possible involvement of government intelligence agencies and other key issues will be studied. But the panel has just two months to draft a report, and its charter calls only for identifying gaps in existing inquiries and recommending changes in training, organization and policies related to the handling of detainees.

In Congress, too, the investigative effort has yet to match major probes of the past. Republican leaders have resisted calls from Democratic lawmakers to establish a special panel of inquiry, as was done in the Iran-contra scandal of the 1980s, or authorize a blue-ribbon commission, like the one now investigating government mistakes related to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Instead, congressional action has been kept within regular committee channels, principally the armed services committees. And only the Senate committee, under the leadership of John W. Warner (R-Va.), has shown investigating vigor, convening a series of hearings that some senior House Republicans have complained are ill-advised and serve only to give more political ammunition to critics of the Bush administration.

[RainDog]

73. From the UK Telegraph

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/15/wrum15.xml

here's a more of the same...

Rumsfield escapes blame

"This is a whitewash - a carefully orchestrated one," said a lawyer who has liaised with military officials involved in the case. "People in the Pentagon have been coming to me in a fury because of the way this has been handled. By naming military intelligence officials as well as the seven military police who have been charged, it will look like action has been taken. But basically it's still the same storyline of just a few bad apples, way down the food chain."

The decision to limit the investigation to military personnel has caused huge controversy within the Pentagon. "Some of the military lawyers are incandescent," said one Pentagon adviser. "There's been a deliberate attempt to make sure the buck stops well before it gets to the doors of the civilian hierarchy."

Critics of Mr Rumsfeld allege that a high-level Pentagon decision to toughen up interrogation conditions in Iraq was taken last autumn. Senior civilians at the Department of Defence sanctioned the transfer of Major-Gen Geoffrey Miller from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib, where he allegedly told senior officers that he was authorised to "Gitmo-ise" interrogation procedures.

A separate Pentagon investigation into the Abu Ghraib scandal, chaired by the former CIA director James Schlesinger, is expected to criticise Mr Rumsfeld and senior aides for failing to set clear interrogation rules for Iraq. But according to the rules by which this investigation, unlike the Fay report, was set up, Mr Schlesinger's panel is not allowed to enter into "matters of personal accountability".

[Stephanie]

75. So this panel doesn't examine "matters of personal accountability".

The 9/11 Commission declined to assign blame

The Intelligence report only examined the intel side, not the admin side

How does this admin manage to get itself excluded from every freaking investigation??

[RainDog]

76. The Telegraph UK's headline rightly called it a whitewash

except it's just like their invasion of Iraq. pretending like all is great for the American public doesn't fool the rest of the world.

They have done more in four years to damage this nation than if they'd tried.

And, again, the Republican Congress, which refuses to investigate, are aiding and abetting war crimes, crimes against humanity, and they are scum.

They are no better than any other regime that tortures innocents.

They are dragging the U.S. into the gutter. These are the people who are supposed to be responsible for upholding our laws, TREATIES and Constitution.

Maybe someday the U.S. will have to have a truth commission, just like South Africa, in order to bring some closure to this horrible era of the Banana Republicans.

[milkyway]

71. "They hate us for our freedoms (and maybe because we like to blow off a

little steam by raping their children in front of them)."

[RainDog]

74. Red Cross told the truth- Congress doesn't care

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=IE4M3H4OAQOC5QFIQMFSM54AVCBQ0JVC?xml=/news/2004/06/13/wguan13.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=14787

Interrogation abuses were 'approved at highest levels'
By Julian Coman in Washington
(Filed: 13/06/2004)

...The Telegraph understands that four confidential Red Cross documents implicating senior Pentagon civilians in the Abu Ghraib scandal have been passed to an American television network, which is preparing to make them public shortly. According to lawyers familiar with the Red Cross reports, they will contradict previous testimony by senior Pentagon officials who have claimed that the abuse in the Abu Ghraib prison was an isolated incident.

"There are some extremely damaging documents around, which link senior figures to the abuses," said Scott Horton, the former chairman of the New York Bar Association, who has been advising Pentagon lawyers unhappy at the administration's approach. "The biggest bombs in this case have yet to be dropped."

A string of leaked government memos over the past few days has revealed that President George W Bush was advised by Justice Department officials and the White House lawyer, Alberto Gonzalez, that Geneva Conventions on torture did not apply to "unlawful combatants", captured during the war on terror.

Members of Congress are now demanding access to all White House memos on interrogation techniques, a request so far refused by the United States attorney-general, John Ashcroft. ..."It's now clear to everyone that there was a debate in the administration about how far interrogators could go," said a legal adviser to the Pentagon. "And the answer they came up with was 'pretty far'. Now that it's in the open, the administration is having to change that answer somewhat."

In the latest revelation, yesterday's Washington Post published leaked documents revealing that Gen Ricardo Sanchez, the senior US officer in Iraq, approved the use of dogs, temperature extremes, reversed sleep patterns and sensory deprivation for prisoners whenever senior officials at the Abu Ghraib jail wished. A memo dated October 9, 2003 on "Interrogation Rules of Engagement", which each military intelligence officer was obliged to sign, set out in detail the wide range of pressure tactics they could use - including stress positions and solitary confinement for more than 30 days.

BULLSHIT QUOTE:

"This is not going to be a whitewash," said the Pentagon adviser. "The administration is finally realising how damaging this scandal could become."

Legal and constitutional experts have expressed astonishment at the judgments made by administration lawyers on interrogation techniques. In one memo, written in January 2002, Mr Gonzalez told President Bush that the nature of the war on terror "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions".

Scott Silliman, a former US air force lawyer and the director of the Centre for Law Ethics and National Security at Duke University, said: "What you have is a culture of avoidance of law rather than compliance with it."

JUST LIKE NOW.

A separate memo, written by Pentagon lawyers in March 2003, stated that "the infliction of pain or suffering per se, whether it is physical or mental is insufficient to amount to torture. must be of such a high level of intensity that it is difficult for the subject to endure".

-------
REMEMBER- General Taguba's report said that 60% of the people imprisoned in Iraq were innocent...and I don't know if he was including those "off the record" women and children.

The ICRC estimated 70-80% of those in Iraqi prisons were innocent.

This is the how Bush and crew have debased the good name of this country (yes, good, in spite of many wrongs we have done...there were still those who were willing to view those things as isolated...now, it's WHITE HOUSE POLICY!)

The Republicans in Congress are a bunch of scumbags for letting Bush and Rumsfield drag this nation into the gutter.

[ClassWarrior]

77. kick

:kick:

[ClassWarrior]

78. double kick

:kick: :kick:

[ClassWarrior]

79. and once more...

:kick:

[ClassWarrior]

80. for the little girls and boys...

:kick:

[ClassWarrior]

82. too tragic not to kick

:kick:

[Noodleboy13]

83. Kick

I've been following this story for awhile, and every time a new horrific detial comes out, I feel physially ill. Actions like these conjure the ghosts of Bosnian rape camps.

What kind of person thinks it is acceptable... hell, what kind of person can bring themselves to torture a woman's children in front of her to extract "information"

:grr:


sometimes I gotta remember to breathe.

Smile at a stranger,
Noodleboy

[bobbieinok]

89. Gestapo.....remember all those WWII resistance movies...torture was what

'bad guys' did. 'Good guys' were in the resistance.

[RebelOne]

84. Kick

[ClassWarrior]

85. kick

:kick:

[wellstone dem]

86. Thanks for keeping this kicked,

somehow I missed it.

I wish there were someway to see this on the front page of the major media.

[democrat_patriot]

87. Kick.

[ClassWarrior]

88. for the women and the kids

and the men

:kick:

[bobbieinok]

90. has anyone listed all the DU discussions of A.G. in one place?????

[ClassWarrior]

91. Not that I know of...

...though a search might do the trick.

[RainDog]

92. Please call your Congress person

and ask them to investigate these crimes against humanity.

Tell them to do their duty to provide a check and balance against this abuse of power by Rumsfield and Bush.

Ask them "what are we supposed to tell the children," when those at the highest levels of power in this govt are allowed to get away with a policy that permits the rape and torture of children.

[ClassWarrior]

93. Amen RainDog

[ClassWarrior]

96. Don't forget these kids...

:kick:

[floda]

94. kick

for truth

[KoKo]

95. Is there any NEW INFO on this one? Still waiting...????

:shrug: Keep seeing this kicked.

[democrat_patriot]

97. Kick Part 2

[NightOwwl]

98. Is GQ coming out with an article in their September issue?

Heard it on Hardball today. Does anyone have more info?

[Gloria]

99. KICK

eom

[TrustingDog]

100. kick