How much time should Lynndie England get?

[quinnox]

Poll question: How much time should Lynndie England get?

She is the one who was in all the photos giving thumbs up from Iraq prison. She is on trial now, and is facing maximum of 38 years. The trial is not looking good for her, most recent story has prisoners fingering her as the one who abused them.

One of the other prison guards, who was a male got one year in prison for his part.

That is some background. How much time should she get?

[iconoclastic cat]

1. First of all, she is a sex offender. Secondly, the more time she's facing,

the better chance that she'll start spouting names of higher-ups who put her up to these crimes.

[Cleita]

2. You needed another category.

"Not one hour more than the males involved." That's what I would have voted for.

[smirkymonkey]

3. Thank you!

I am pretty sick of Lynnie England taking the fall for everyone involved, including those at the top.

There is a strong, anti-woman political agenda at work here.

She's guilty, but no more so than any of the others who took part.

[Ilsa]

6. Are the others facing time for "promiscuity"?

Or is she the only one being tagged with this label? I bet she is the only one, and it stinks. Those bastards won't even run DNA profiles to find female soldiers' rapists when they have the evidence.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. Interesting question...

Just to be devils advocate, I dont really care if other people that I dont know are promiscious or not.

Lets say it was true that all the male soldiers in that unit were having sex with her.

To be promiscious you have to have multiple partners and whatnot.

Therefore she had multiple partners so she was being promiscious.

However the male soliders only had one partner, therfore they werent being promiscious.

[Ilsa]

38. If they were passing her around and they knew she

was with the other soldiers and they had sex with her anyway, I'd consider that as qualifying for participating in promiscuous acts. Besides, I bet she wasn't the only woman around, and I wonder if the other men were investigated for multiple sex partners.

But your point is well-made, and frankly, I don't care what they are doing either. For all I know, getting pregnant might be the safest thing a woman can do there to protect herself from potential IED's or rape by being sent home.

[Osama_Bin_Winnin]

39. rest assured

we'll have enough left for the guys when they make it to trial. Especially Grener.

[Cleita]

44. Great. Why haven't they made it to trial yet?

It seems they should all have been there rather obviously. I don't understand. Or,is it that we aren't getting the truth?

[TahitiNut]

33. How about: "Not one hour more than the Generals involved"?

(and Rumsfeld, of course.)

[Cleita]

34. That would work too. n/t

[2Design]

4. 1/4 of what the carbs get....cheney, ashcroft, rumsfeld, bush,,,and rice

and powell.....not who was the s for...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. She shouldn't serve a day more than those 5 do.

Not a day more.

[Rick in Maryland]

5. Probation? She is being tried by the military. There is no probation

in the military.

[Bandit]

7. I think those soldiers did irreparable harm to US image and they need

to be held accountable. US Soldiers are Ambassadors at large and they need to act accordingly. A message needs to be sent. Not only about Private Lynndie but all US personel who participated in such acts. The Maximum Sentence and no less is acceptable. Bush* and Rummy should also be held accountable but that probably will not ever happen.

[denverbill]

8. How about a couple months of the same treatment she doled out?

After all, they were just having fun.

[KansDem]

17. That's right, find a few guys willing to "blow off steam" in her direction

Maybe some fraternity types, ala Rush, could do the trick

[sangh0]

9. Other

IMO, we ought to have a trial first, and determine what exactly (if anything) she is guilty of before deciding on the sentence.

[quinnox]

10. Wow, some pretty harsh sentences in votes

Surprised me some, second place is the maximum 38 years and first place is 6- 10 years.

And even one for Death penalty, whoa.

[DrWeird]

11. Isn't Lyndie England essentially a rapist?

Forcing people to perform sexual acts against their will is still considered rape, right?

[sangh0]

12. I don't think so

I think it's sexual assault.

[Djinn]

45. depends what the sexual acts were

if you force someone to give someone else oral sex then that's rape - atleast it is here.

[smirkymonkey]

14. Apparently the Armed Forces doesn't seem

to take rape seriously even when it's one of their own. Why would it be any different in this case?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnykmarshall]

16. How about her "baby daddy"?

That asshole needs to go down too!

[Cat Atomic]

18. Why do we only hear about Lynndie England?

There were alot of other military and civilian personnel involved in this. Not to mention the higher ups, possibly up to Rumsfeld and Bush.

And yet all we hear about is our little Nazi Rosie the Riveter. Why is that?

[Jack_DeLeon]

21. She = Scapegoat.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. She is the one in the photos

[Cat Atomic]

30. There are others in the photos. That creep who sits on top

of the Iraqi pyramid, for instance. That's probably the most famous image with a soldier in it.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

19. Who's voting for the death penalty?

That's a little extreme, don't you think?

[Jack_DeLeon]

22. not necessarily...

Depends on thier viewpoint...

Most people agree that deadly force should be used to stop crimes such as rape or sexual assault.

So its not that much of a stretch for some to think that a fair punishment for the above crimes is death.

Or you could be from the middle east where the death penalty is the norm for many crimes.

[sangh0]

23. Not necesarily?

IMO, it's pretty radical to call for DP before the trial has even begun.

[Jack_DeLeon]

well whenever there is one of these polls

I just assume that the poll maker meant after the trial was over and she is convicted of everything.

[DrWeird]

52. Yeah, I voted DP.

I'm actually for a moratorium on the DP. And I'm pretty much against the concept, except in extreme cases, such as crimes against humanity.

If you follow my posts, you'll also notice I'm a firm believer in the presumption of innocence. Although, I draw the exception in cases where there's actual video or photographs of people committing the crime. If England is found not guilty it would be an obvious injustice.

Frankly, I think England deserves the DP just as much as the guards at Auschwitz.

[AntiLempa]

25. 10%

Ms. Englund's sentence should be 10% of what the commanding officers get. Of course she should not be imprisoned in a military brig, rather she should have access to counseling and education.

[0007]

26. At least seven years

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. She should be tried by the ICC.

As should all the participants and the co-conspirators who sent them there to give the Iraqis "democracy" at gunpoint with the aid of torture.

[QC]

29. How about Feith, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bush, et al?

How much time should they get? Let's not take Rove's bait by pretending that a few sergeants from out in the boonies are responsible for an atrocity that was ordered by the people at the very top.

[Disturbed]

31. Gen. Sanchez and Miller and...

Feith, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bush. All of them are accountable.

I wonder if big press will be made of the other female, the one with thumb up over a detainee that was beaten to death?

The US has committed many War Crimes. A Cover Up is in full force!

Rumsfailed Admitted violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public that when CIA Tentet requested that a prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act so Rumsfailed ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graib but the prisoner was not listed at that location on purpose. That is two violations of the Geneva Convention. Tenet and Rumsfailed violated the Geneva convention, thereby also The Constitution of the USA. Not one complaint or charge was made regarding Rumsfailed and Tenet, not even by any Dem in Congress. Rumsfaild's admission came (after) some in Congress called for his resignation and after Rep. Rangel issued Impeachment of Rumsfailed, which nothing has been heard of since then.

Does the US no longer follow the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?

It appears so.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Shit flows downhill. Should be Bush's motto.

I'm still waiting for Kissinger, Westmoreland, McNamara, Rusk, et al, to take their place in the dock for those 2 million+ victims of their ambitions.

[ThomWV]

35. I Said Not Over 5, and Here's Why

There she is, a very stupid young woman, pregnant and looking at loosing a significant portion of her youth. There will be the baby she will not be able mother through the most important years too. Society won't be better served if she is imprisoned for what would be the better part of her life. As far as I know she didn't kill anyone. What she did can not be forgiven, but that does not mean that we should be mercyless in our assessment of what should be done to make her experience become the threat that will forever hang over the head of every GI to come.

Thom

[Catt03]

36. Seriously

they take a young woman from small town West Virginia, send her to Iraq, totally unprepared.

Reality check. She may lack morals and displayed poor judgment but the death penalty?

Fine her for ignorance and lack of common sense. Get the big guys.

Note: Her peers could have said "no" to the sex.

[Djinn]

47. sorry?

"Fine her for ignorance and lack of common sense. Get the big guys."

Do you really need to be educated or intelligent to know that this shit is wrong? does being from a piss poor town in West Virginia absolve you from human decency?

While I agree that this woman has been made a scapegoat and that those higher up also should be punished, "following orders" isn't an accepted excuse and neither is ignorance.

[Tactical Progressive]

37. How about this:

1/4 of the time that Rummy and the military hierarchy get. Actual sentence to be deferred until they are sentenced.

If they get nothing, she gets nothing. Or they both get slammed. That keeps the connection, the actual flow of authority and responsibility, front and center in everyone's mind. What will Lynndie get?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. Bush and Rumsfeld should serve the same time she gets.

It is only just.

[rexcat]

41. War crimes are a bitch!

I say give her the max, 38 years seems appropriate to me.

[DemBones DemBones]

42. Could the soldier already sentenced have also gotten 38 years?

Does anyone know whether the charges against him were different from those against this person?

[Jack Rabbit]

43. Whatever she gets

Whatever she gets, it should be a light sentence compared to what Bush, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Feith, General Miller and White House Council Gonzales should get for conspiring to put together this offshore system of gulags of which Abu Ghaib was only a part.

[0rganism]

46. She should make a deal with prosecutors, and turn state's evidence

I would gladly let her walk if we could nail the Rumsfucker instead.

[ButterflyBlood]

48. Let's hand her over to the insurgents

a lot of the beheadings were claimed to be payback for this, so let's give them what they want to settle this whole thing down. let them do what they want with who started the problem.

[Zhade]

49. About five minutes.

In a noose.

[Zhade]

53. I wrote this in a really bad mood.

I don't think she should get the death penalty (though five minutes in a noose wouldn't kill her, I don't think?).

She should definitely be punished, but I was just in a horrifically bad mood when I responded to this poll.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

50. No more than Bush Cheney Rumsfeld etc.... combined.

Yeah I need to say this several times this thread.

[jukes]

51. i didn't vote

i'd like her to turn "states evidence" & go in the witness protection program after testifying.

depending on convictions of ALL involved, o/c.

[erpowers]

54. Just Kick Her out of the Military

To a degree I feel that they should just kick her out of the Army. I think that would be bad enough. Her life will be pretty messed up after being dishonorably discharged from the Army.