Gosh I wonder what will happen to poor Lynnedie England?

[mopaul]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=716&e=7&u=/ap/20040804/ap_on_re_us/prisoner_abuse_england

i worry about her so. it reminds me of susan mc dougal and the way ken starr harrassed and imprisoned her for nothing. now they are persecuting poor lynnedie england who was such a good little horny little nazi. gosh, i wonder if there's anyway she could get a presidential pardon? let's start a petition and send it to the compassionate president. lynnedie was only givin' the enemy what they deserved cause they did nine eleven and they had weapons of mass destruction and they hate us for our freedoms and they worship a false god anyway. free lynnedie england now!

[trof]

1. I'm thinkin' book and movie offers.

prolly

[KurtNYC]

2. And give her back her leash!

How she had the forsight to bring that leash with her to Iraq I will never know.

[Demobrat]

3. I wonder what will happen to the poor thing

in her belly. It appears mom's got a slightly warped sense of fun.

[mopaul]

4. I SWEAR I didn't see the other thread when I made mine....so...

if it needs to go......

[janx]

5. She'll either go to jail, in which case her mother will be saddled

with raising the baby, or she'll get off, in which case her mother will still be saddled with raising the baby, probably.

The future doesn't look very promising.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. The fact they are going after her

when the orders came from the top is what I find to be truly sickening.

This is how they support the troops. They give them orders and then prosecute them for following the orders.

I'm not saying she has zero cupability, only that she wouldn't be on trial right now if her superiors had acted according to the laws of the US, the military and the world.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. "A Few Good Men" I watch that movie every few months. I swear I can

hear Rummy saying Nicholson's lines.

[atreides1]

10. Here's The Problem

There are no written orders, so if you have nothing in writing you have no evidence that orders came from HQ.

And let's not forget that she and the others had the right to refuse the orders they were given, because they were clearly illegal. But instead they joined in the fun, and took pleasure from what they did.

And now that it's time to pay for their actions, they want to point the finger at the MI people, and the command staff. Guess what it don't work that way, and just like the Germans at Nuremberg they are
finding out that "following orders" is not an excuse for committing crimes.

Personally they are more culpable then those who gave the orders, because they could have done the right thing and said no, this isn't right and I will not do it. But they did what they did and now they will be punished for it.

As the old saying goes, shit rolls down hill, not up!!!

[John Q. Citizen]

19. There are probably no

written direct orders to her, but there are all the memos that show the policy goes up to the cabinet level, as well as the similarities in many prisons through out Iraq and at Gitmo.

Shocking Prisoner Abuses Are Revealed
By Andrew Buncombe and Nigel Morris
Independent UK
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/080504B.shtml

I agree she (and the other grunts) are culpable but these are young kids ordered to follow the program and how many people in that situation are going to stand up and say to their commanding officer, "no, this is wrong." Meanwhile Rummy is still sleeping at home walking around free. These kids are being scapegoated. They had no training in guarding prisoners and no instruction in the Geneva convention.

I remember the psychological experiments where student volunteers were told to turn up the juice by a researcher as they watched the victim writhing in pain. These were college students following the direction of a "scientist" who told them it was OK and for research.

I have my doubts how many people posting on this board would have refused to follow the same orders at the same age and circumstances these young soldiers were put into

Out of all the different instances of torture at all the different military prisons, I wonder how many people stood up and refused to follow orders? My guess is they are the exception and not the rule.

[atreides1]

20. What Memos????

What memos, no one has any memos, these people did not write anything down, they took that play out the "Final Solution" handbook.

If there any memos don't you think that the defense would have them, there is nothing showing culpability of the command, nothing.

Think about it, when this goes to a court martial, do you really think that the jury hearing the case, a jury made up of NCO's and
maybe even a few commissioned officers, is really going to take the word of a woman who is now been portrayed as having loose morals.

I guess I was raised differently then you, as a former soldier and an NCO I knew by the Manuals of Courts Martial what is and isn't right, I also remember an old 1st Sgt who told me that even in the most dire situations you can never forget that the enemy you are fighting is just as much a human being as you are, And that no one has the right to abuse or torture another person, no matter what.

And I have been in combat, and I have killed, but guess what I didn't take a picture of me smiling next to a dead man. It's about more then the situation it's about what an individual is made of, and those that went right with this sure as hell in my view aren't worthy of wearing the uniform.

Maybe that's the problem with this country, people have forgotten how to do the right thing, how to stand up for what is good and right, how to resist those that would make you as evil as they have become, maybe they have forgotten how to say no when something isn't right.

Personally I hope they all get the maximum punishment, I would like to see those who gave the orders also punished, and I would love to see them disgraced in public before they are sent to prison. But for now until someone who has something comes forward, PFC England and the rest of these enlisted soldiers will get their day in court, which is more then what the Iraqi detainees got.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. These memos

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_062804A.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/061304A.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_062504D.shtml
... battle over memos The memos were released Tuesday as part of the Bush administration's
campaign to counter suggestions that it had condoned torture. ...

Many of the stories are from the Wash Post. Basically, the Bush administration had the lawyers declare that torture was ok on people who weren't classified as prisoneers of war. If you go to the Truth Out home page and type "torture memos" into thier seach engine in the top right you will get a long list of archieved stories from many sources that cover the top down facilitation of torture in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

I have no idea when you served (thanks by the way) but everything has changed under our current Commander in Chief.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. I fear you are right -- another grandma stuck with raising

a grandchild, hoping he or she turns out better than the one she raised first.

[Mandate My Ass]

14. For someone who is so rabidly anti-choice

It's a rather incongruent statement to make that a another grandmother would be "stuck" with raising her own grandchild.

It would follow in that line of thinking that pregnancy and the birth of a child is a well-deserved punishment for bad behavior of its mother, and one that should not be "stuck" upon innocent family members.

I am rabidly pro-choice, and I would welcome any role in raising or helping to raise a grandchild, or support the termination of a potential one, no matter what the circumstances.

[Warpy]

13. My guess is a couple of years in jail

during which time grandma will get the baby to raise. Since she did such a wonderful job on her daughter, I think we can expect the same for her grandchild. It doesn't seem like Lyndie is marriage material, so the kid's father will be out of the picture, except for a pittance deducted from his pay (if he isn't in prison).

This chick is guilty mostly of incredibly poor judgment. She's being scapegoated as the poster child for the abandonment of the GC. There will be no justice for the rich men at the top who gave the orders.

[pocket]

6. everlasting hellfire

or a job on AM radio

[Bluebear]

8. I wonder what will happen to her poor child nt

[tnlefty]

11. She'll soon be dancing the paternity polka?

Who's your daddy?

[KansDem]

18. Spc. Charles Graner...

Pennsylvania Soldier, Girlfriend Accused In Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

Soldier Was Prison Guard In Central Pennsylvania

Before the Army Reserve called him up for active duty, Graner worked as a prison guard at Greene Correctional Institution. According to records obtained by NBC 10, Graner was accused of abusing his ex-wife in the past. Employment records also showed a less-than-stellar record, but unlike in Iraq, he was never accused of mistreating prisoners in Pennsylvania.

The Army has accused Graner, 35, of abusing prisoners. Also in trouble is Graner's girlfriend, Army Pfc. Lyndie England, who was seen posing in many of the photos with him. England is from West Virginia and is now pregnant with Graner's child.

Graner lived in Uniontown, Pa., about one hour south of Pittsburgh. He, his ex-wife and two children once shared a home there until a few years ago when she accused him of domestic abuse.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/3292124/detail.html

editied to add:

[Osama_Bin_Winnin]

15. She'll get a job with Fox

[ajacobson]

16. "So Mom, what did you and Dad do in the war?"

x(

[QC]

17. I wonder what will happen to Doug Feith?

A promotion, probably.