how many of you would simply "not accept" a second bush term?

[mopaul]

the only reason he is president is because we 'accepted' the outrage with unexplainable grace. to this day, i don't quite understand why the white house is still standing after that.

it's one thing to say rhetorically, 'he's not my president', but, i am wondering just how fed up we'd finally be if he pulled it off again. i can't predict it, would've never predicted 2000. but i just wonder how it would go down in your heads?

[Skittles]

1. I've never accepted that moronic bastard as my "president"

and I never, EVER will.

[JayS]

5. It will be the same as now for me. Bush is a really, really great...

...band and I hope they come out with a new album soon. And we really should think about electing a President one of these days. :)

[Paradise]

11. DITTO! n/t

[goclark]

2. I didn't have a clue in 2000

I have a big clue now!

IMO there will be a Civil War in this country if he is stolen into office again.

[mstrsplinter326]

3. should he "win" in 2k4

I will personally see to it that he is impeached and tried for crimes against humanity.

Edit: Not just W, either - the whole lot.

[forgethell]

4. What do we plan to do about it?? n/t

[JayS]

8. Concentrate on 2006. n/t

n/t

[Beetwasher]

6. Mo, I Don't Know

I just really don't know until it happens...

Let's put it this way though. If he becomes President again, it will only be because he stole it again, and he won't get away w/ stealing another election without consequences...

[lovedems]

7. My aunt and uncle, in their late 40's, moderates by most measures

said they would take to the streets if 2000 happened again this year. They are tired of all the republican pundits saying "get over it!"

If my democratically moderate aunt and uncle are talking like that, it makes me wonder what others are saying. I would take to the streets with them.

[TexasBushwhacker]

13. My brother and I have started talking about where to move

Seriously! We're both in our 40's and single and we both have professions that we could conceivably do in another country. We're native Texans and normally we would just tough it out, but this time we're not so sure. We love this country and we'd fight the good fight as much as possible, but having spent 2000 through 2003 taking care of our mom as she was dying of cancer, which required progressively more time and physical as well as emotional energy, we're pretty drained. We'd really like some peace and quiet in our lives for a while. I know that we aren't the only ones that have suffered these past few years, with all the unemployment out there and families that have loved ones in the military, etc. Exploring the option of living and working in another country, which we would have never considered in the past, doesn't seem so crazy right now. We're tired.

[AnnInLa]

18. Mexico isn't very "progressive", but check out this link

www.isla-mujeres.net.....where I'm going after retirement in a few years.... I keep an apartment there now, it's like going back to the simpler, more innocent time

[TexasBushwhacker]

27. Thanks, I have a friend that does that

He even wrote a book and maintains a website:

http://www.mexicomike.com/

[AnnInLa]

32. Thanks for the website....great!

[LunaC]

29. Link doesn't work

I'm interested in Mexico too and would like to check out the various options.

[AnnInLa]

33. amended link

www.isla-mujeres.net

[RoadRunner]

52. I'm thinking the same thing.

From what I've learned so far:

Mexico has national health care, cost for US citizens to buy-in is about $300 per year. The health care is excellent, but you have to know where to go and where to avoid.

Guns are outlawed in Mexico. When someone is caught with a gun, it's front page news, a very big deal.

Mexico's crime rate is much lower than in my own little city in the U.S.

Mexico has very low taxes, cheap utilities, and inexpensive food and prescription drugs. Movies are very popular and cost about $2.

U.S. citizens can own property in Mexico. The exception is if the property is located within 100 km of the coast or border. To acquire property in that region, you have to set up a trust with a bank and pay them an annual fee.

Real estate is inexpensive compared to U.S. With care in selection, it is possible to buy a nice house for less than $50,000. Mexican property is generally sold for cash only.

The Mexican people are friendly and welcome U.S. citizens.

AARP Magazine just did a story on it:

La Vida Cheapo

By Barry Golson, March-April 2004

"For 600 bucks a month, retirees in Mexico can live in a three-bedroom home, with a gardener. For a cool thousand...well, you won’t believe it."

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/travel/Articles/a2004-01-21-mag-mexico.html



Sounds pretty good to me.

[lovedems]

21. Yes, we have suffered in our own way.

My husband was unemployed from the IT sector for over a year. His unemployment stopped, we had to cash out his retirement, we lost our health insurance. It was terrible. I always tell people under the Clinton administration my husband changed jobs 3 times for a better paying job with better benefits. Under the Bush administration my husband lost his job and couldn't find one. His policies have totally sucked for us.

[Radical Activist]

9. I would support massive non-violent resistance to

the legitimacy of the government if Bush steals another election. I will not recognize or participate in it.

[mahina]

44. What will we DO about it?

Preparation for the election has to include preparation for an attempted theft.
One powerful tool is a small pamphlet by Gene Sharp (below) The Anti-Coup available for free download or purchase at http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations.php3?orgid=88&typeID=16&action=printContentItem&itemID=31&templateID=37&sortField=alpha

Borrow "A Force More Powerful" video from your library if they have it- it is the story of nonviolent resistance overthrowing Pinochet, resisting Hitler in Denmark, the people power revolution in the Phillipines, and lots of other heaartening stories. We are told constantly we don't have any power and that is a LIE.

About Gene Sharp:
Gene Sharp wrote The Politics of Nonviolent Action (1973), Gandhi as a Political Strategist (1979), Social Power and Political Freedom (1980), Making Europe Unconquerable (1985), Civilian-Based Defense (1990), and From Dictatorship to Democracy (1993, 2002, and 2003).) Waging Nonviolent Struggle: Twentieth Century Practice and Twenty-First Century Potential. His writings have been published in more than thirty languages.



"Dissent without resistance IS CONSENT"- Thoreau

[RodneyCK2]

10. I was amazed everyone shut up...

over the crooked, so-called win. If you remember though, the media had a large part in controlling the mobs. Headlines were clearly in favor of Bush&Co.

To reflect on 2000 sends me into a tirade to this day. I hope we do not sit idly by and watch the country slide into the neo-cons/right-wing fanatics hands if the worst case scenario occurs for 2004.

[Edmond Dantes]

16. I was amazed too.

But don't forget that Al Gore himself called for peace, acceptance, and unity in the wake of the election. I don't mean to be hard on Gore, but he is the one who set the "woos" tone. I believe he did so out of naivete. (Thankfully, he has now come to his senses.)

Many said back then that the Bushies were well aware of the questionable legitimacy of Bush's win and, consequently, they would stay well within the lines of reason in order to foster national unity after such a close and potentially devisive election. However, based on my personal experience with neocon scum in 1992, I knew we were in for a very bad time from overly aggressive, testosterone-driven neocons.

Unfortunately, I was right.

[RodneyCK2]

31. If you read Dean's book...

he recounts the whole mess and what Gore was going through from a personal perspective. He was basically beat down and disgusted so it is not surprising he made such statements.

You are correct, I think there is a renewed fire under him now and for good reasons.

[Edmond Dantes]

34. Which Dean book?

I'll have to take a look at it.

I know Gore got some really bad legal advice during the campaign, apparently some of it from Walter Dellinger. First, Dellinger produced a legal memo supporting the idea that the winner of the electoral vote (v. majority vote) was the legitimate winner. And I don't know what legal moran allowed Gore to concede the election in the first place. I went ballistic as I watched that night. Ugh.

Again, I don't blame Gore for saying what he said. But I believe those statements set the tone for the Democratic complacency that followed Bush's appointment.

Personally, if I had been on Gore's legal team, things would have been very different. (And I WOULD HAVE been on Gore's legal team but for that idiot Dellinger.) We would have had our own bus head to Florida to counter the neocon thugs protesting the recount.

Ah well. It's all in the past. I look to rectifying the situation in the future.

[RodneyCK2]

36. I believe it is John W. Dean's...

book, "Worse Than Watergate." I have read so many in the past month, many repeating the same issues, so they all begin to run together. I believe it was in that book, but regardless, it is a great book and a must read.

[Edmond Dantes]

41. That's exactly the book I was about to order...

... for spouse's birthday.

Thanks for the recommendation!

[drdigi420]

12. i still havnt accepted his first term

governor shrub needs to go back to his trailer ranch in texas (or better yet, go back to cheerleading in new england)

[Rockholm]

14. Accept? No Way.

This man and his henchmen and henchwomen has effectively destroyed the America that I know. The corporate media has enabled these people to rob and plunder the soul of this Nation and I fear that if * is selected in November, that will be the death knell for us.
I will be packing my bags, thank you very much, and will either be going to Europe or Canada for a few years.

[Raskolnik]

15. Um....you know I'm your biggest fan Mopaul, but...

you're kind of asking for a visit from the feds with this one.

[porphyrian]

17. He won't pull it off again.

Some people are hard to rile, but watch out once they snap.

[LSU_Subversive]

19. Count me as in. I've been saying "Not my Pres" and I mean it.

I've been up to my limit in tolerance of these repubes for a long time. I'm leaving the country if I have to. Probably even if he doesn't get elected, because those people won't be giving up at all. Expect the attack machine to continue as is.

[Wind Dancer]

20. That's a tough question!

I believe if * is in office another 4 years, our country, as we once knew it, will no longer exist. I will never accept him as a legitimate president but he has made such significant changes in our democracy in the past 3 1/2 years because he CAN.

I am not willing to give away the very core of this country's foundation without fighting to restore its honor. I also know we must prepare for a hard battle even when Kerry wins.

[AndyTiedye]

22. We Didn't Accept it the First Time He Stole the Presidency

People DID take to the streets. They threw eggs at Bush*'s limousine
which sped off and went into the White House the back way.

The media did not show any of that.

Nobody (except those who were there) got to see it until F/911 came out.

There have been many protests since then, all of which have been
massively underreported in the US media.

[TexasBushwhacker]

28. The media let us down

By not reporting and massively undereporting, there are millions of people that think they are the only ones that are upset enough to raise hell. However, they stay quiet, or protest in their own little way, because they don't know about the other people that feel the same way they do.

"They threw eggs at Bush*'s limousine which sped off and went into the White House the back way."

My jaw just dropped when I saw this, because I couldn't believe that it hadn't been on the 6 o'clock news and the front page of the paper EVERYWHERE. Gore may have been ready to concede, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us were. It makes me angry and breaks my heart. If we'd known, how many of us would have fought THEN, and look at where our country is now because we didn't.

[iconoclastic cat]

35. Whatever the outcome of this election, the next target of mass protests

should be the major media outlets! Does anyone remember those stupid "instant swarms," where a hundred or so people would get an IM message or email with instructions to show up at a specific place at a specific time? Tons of people did that--fairly pointless, but think about how it could be used. Let's see how well the NBC correspondents do when they are protested every time they are on location!

[Karenina]

40. You GO, Icono!!!

THAT is EXACTLY what needs to happen. The Fourth Estate has to have the depth of their TREASON 'splained to them. Real clear. In person. Up in dey WEASELY PRIMPED UP/PIMPED UP LYIN' ASS FACES. The airwaves belong to the PEOPLE. It is part of the common estate that the *dauphin is trashing and delivering to the *corp megamediagiant that touts its agenda. The shit is so seriously fucked up. Izvetzia ain't got nothin on it, the Ruskies all knew it was LIES AND BULLSHIT. The scary thing is how many Americans DON'T GET IT! TELL 'EM ABOUT IT!!!

And here's a :toast: to THK!

[sinkingfeeling]

23. First, I will go to D.C. and join the millions in protest and

then I will be moving to Ireland.

[moof]

24. Self-immolation is being considered.

It hasn't made the media in the past after Vietnam,
but it still seems like a good way to protest the death of democracy.

[Generator]

49. Some days.... that's about it!!! (you share my cynical disdain)

So much huff and blather. Still I'd want to move to Canada myself. I love B.C. I despise the summer anyway. IS Al Queda after Canadians, I doubt it. Canada is the dream country. Damn you Canada!

I'm tired of being ashamed of my fellow Americans. I don't want to look at those around me with disdain and utter disgust thinking they think this piece of garbage is worthy to be President of the (once) great nation that was a shinning beacon of Democracy.

As a comedian said, we were basically Guatamela there in 2000. The court decides who is president. The court appointed by the boy King's father.

Democracy is fading fast. I'm sickened.

[markus]

25. Venezuela

The Bush Administration Approved model for dealing with a regime who's legitimacy you question.

This presumes Kerry doesn't muck it up and allow Bush to win "fair-and-square".

If there's any funny business, Bush my "rule" be he should not be allowed to govern.

Start with Inauguration Day. Have 100,000 or 500,00 anti-Bushistas on the mall. Or force them to delcare Martial Law to keep them out. Make it obvious what is really going on the in country.

[LiberalEsto]

26. leave or fight

Interesting issue.

My first instinct is to flee the country, move to Estonia where I have relatives and speak the language. I can claim citizenship there through my immigrant parents.

But then would I and the others who want to flee the country be abandoning the U.S. to a gang of crazed neocons who HAVE NUKES? The mere thought scares the daylights out of me. What if they're left in charge of the whole gun shop, with no opposition whatsoever? I'm afraid noplace in the world would be a safe haven if this happened.

I can't envision any form of violent resistance, but peaceful Gandhi-style is an option I'd think about.

[bluestateguy]

30. When the draft notices start going out....

to my chickenhawk Republican students, I get to say "I told you so".

[genius]

37. If he stays in office, I'm finding another country.

[MaryH]

42. I'll probably just quit paying any attention to

anything. Just go about my life as tho there wasn't an outside world.

I am so tired of all the daily trials and tribulations. Everyday there is more trouble in Iraq, more trouble in the Near East, more trouble with Iran and N. Korea.

Not to mention the weekly Friday scare everyone with a terrorist threat routine.

I just hate this adm. I just want them all gone.

M

[Obamarama]

38. Certainly not me....

If the unthinkable happens, the application to get worker status in Canada goes in the mail on November 3. I refuse to be governed by that treasonous monkey for four more years.

[PhuLoi]

39. An extention of a coup is still a coup.

I have been ashamed of myself and of the American populace for not actively, forcefully rejecting the judicial fiat appointment of Bush. I will never accept him as the rightful holder of the office of president. Having read The Nightmare Years by Bill Scherer, I now have first person insight as to how facism can succeed in a developed, educated and otherwise civilized society.

[kwolf68]

43. I will accept it

If the nation chooses him. I won't be happy...In fact, I will probably be enraged, but I respect our Democracy too much.

However, if some of the same shenanigans happen in '04 that happened in '00 we may have mutiny.

[greekspeak]

45. The "culture wars" are getting nastier by the day

The TV networks have basically given up any semblance of neutrality. The political rhetoric is on the level of children on a playground. The rich are getting richer; the poor are getting poorer. Fundamentalist Christians and the non-religious are at each others' throats like never before. Civility and tolerance of ideas and political philosophies have all but vanished. I personally wonder these days if any outcome in November will stave off severe civil unrest. Could the November election, if it does indeed happen, be the powder keg that ignites real violence in the culture wars?

[maggrwaggr]

46. Count me in.

I'll be there. Whatever it is. He won't be president for a 2nd term.

[Ladyhawk]

47. But what do we DO?

Can someone actually come up with a plan? I'd participate in some kind of non-violent resistance.

[maggrwaggr]

48. Plan B

The first rule of Plan B is that you don't talk about Plan B

[Generator]

50. Confirm file delete!

I love that.

What's so fricking sad, is this is supposed to be OUR week. But there is nothing but bashing and twisting going on in the media. I just feel so hopeless! Must be my hormones? I don't know, but I see it here too. Everybody is angry.

Canada, oh Canada.

[Disturbed]

51. Moving to another country would be tempting.

It would follow you though. If Amerika goes anymore into the Plutocracy than it already is and the Neo Fascists appoint more SC judges this nation will be a Fascist Police State. Amerika's policies have a ripple affect around the world. No place to run or hide. We must resist! I won't detail how because I don't need a visit from the Gestapo. The Declaration of Independence is a must read. Congress is also a major impedement to our representation. We must work hard to change the balance in that system.

Either drastic reform or revolution regarding the party structure and campaign laws need to be addressed. The Democratic Party will impede this but we need a multi-party system because the two party one has become corupt. We cannot depend upon politicians to bring about change. We the people must do it.

[ms.smiler]

53. In the event of another stolen election, I think there is much that we

Can do as consumers to disrupt our economic system. The greatest power we each have is over our own actions. Utilizing our power, as consumers, then puts the pressure on the corporations in this country who could suffer greatly from our collective actions. Let the corporations pressure our government.

I've already stopped my newspaper, withdrawn my savings from the bank, turned off the television except for our Convention, and disconnected my home phone in favor of my cell. I'm making necessary purchases now, so that if the next election is stolen, I can forgo any and all unnecessary purchases. I'll fill my gas tank prior to the election and save my gas for any necessary trips, otherwise I'll be home or protesting. I'm prepared to close our business and contribute to the cessation of commerce while others could call into work sick. Imagine several days of empty stores and the impact on Wall Street.

We actually have the power to bring this nation to a halt.

[Generator]

54. See I don't care whether it's stolen or not

In fact, I think it's worse that I would have to live in this country with these people that voted for this clearly unfit to be a dogcatcher much less the President. That those that are supposed to reprensent me have done nothing. What the fuck has Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton done to stop this takeover? Al Gore? Nothing. God, I am mad as hell. Howard Dean is the only bit of hope I've seen in the last four years. I'm waiting for Kerry to tear them to pieces. They deserve to have their lies destroyed. If not, goodbye Democracy.

I want to live in a country with intelligent people that care about something besides lies and neo-fascist agenda conjured out of fear.

I don't care if it's STOLEN. His being in power for another four years is not an option for me. It's unthinkable.

[donkeyotay]

57. here's a non-violent resistance plan

I have never had anyone show the slightest interest in this, but on the other hand, I've never heard anyone else offer anything more practical.

Problem:
By reducing this to the lowest common denominator, what is missing? Representative democracy. Why? Corporations were allowed to usurp our rights as citizens.

Solution:
Compose letters demanding immediate and full campaign reform so that representation can no longer be purchased by corporations and other interests. (Used to call it bribery, and it was illegal.) Then make copies. Buy yourself a roll of stamps. Send the mofo letter to YOUR representative. Don't exhaust yourself composing letters, just mail them and mail them and mail them again.

When our representatives start getting mail by the truckload, then the spineless wimps will have cover to come out.

Really, this could work.

My plan B is to leave this sinking ship, which I really don't want to do.

[Q3JR4]

55. I haven't yet accepted him and I wouldn't in the future.

Generally I think violence is a bad thing, but when it comes down to it I will take to the streets and join any resistance movement to secure this country and our presidency from the current unelected cabal of neo-fascists.

[wabeewoman]

56. I wouldn't accept it...

I would take to the streets and demand bush leave. On the other hand, if the American people actually elected him, that's when I'd consider moving because I know I am way too out of step with the rest of America and nothing good will come of it. I don't believe people are stupid enough to elect him. I believe he will be defeated in a landslide.

[DinahMoeHum]

58. Put it this way. The 'Pukes better start duct-taping their houses

because Judgement Day is coming for them. One way or another.

Details later.