here's an example of what I wish Obama had said

[maggrwaggr]

OBAMA: Well, I don't think anyone, at this point in time, can disagree with the fact that the president lied. After all, it wasn't the CIA who pushed us into this war, it was George W. Bush. He needs to take responsibility for what happened, good or bad, under his leadership.

Hey, after 9/11, I was behind George Bush. I wanted to take this fight to whoever attacked us. But by invading Iraq Bush took the fight to the wrong people. He invaded the wrong country. Osama is still at large, the people who committed 9/11 are still free, and our Armies are now tied down in a place that they never needed to be in the first place, and tragically dying in the process.

George Bush wanted to invade Iraq before he ever came into office. We know this because all the people currently in his administration were pushing for it. It's documented, they wrote it down. After they got power, they kept their eye on that ball, when it was the wrong ball.

Our country is less safe because of it. The Democrats will change this.



Now is that too much to ask of someone? WHY would something like this make us "wild eyed crazy people?" It took me about twenty seconds to write this.

Why do so many Democrats refuse to TAKE THE FIGHT TO THE GOP????????????????

[Bombtrack]

1. Did he already make his speech?

I missed it?

[wndycty]

2. You want it to be said. . .

. . . get off the DU and invest your time and effort in building a good name, a good reputation, raising, money, winning a nomination, getting the keynote spot at the convention and say it your own damn self.

[Caution]

5. hear hear

great post.

[chimpymustgo]

7. Great post. I said something similar in another thread:

"...if you want it said the way you think is perfect, get off your ass and run for something".

You were much more eleoquent.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wndycty]

15. Does someone need a time out. . .LOL

You crack me up. . .

[Bat Boy]

22. Did you just accuse someone of repeating themselves?

I think...yes, I think I just peed a little....

[maggrwaggr]

28. I did I did I did I did

It was from another thread. He knew what I was talking about even if y'all didn't.

[Bat Boy]

31. Oh, I knew. I've just watched you say the same thing all day...

Found it a bit amusing. That's all.

[KC21304]

25. You seem to like to dish it out

but you can't take it.

[jpgray]

3. The pundits would eat you alive.

The alternate theory to Obama being a centrist panderer is that he is simply pandering to the media's 'accepted wisdom'. The 'accepted wisdom' is that Bush is still 'basically a good guy' and most of ALL that Bush may 'mislead' or 'misspeak', but he can never lie. Remember, the pundits don't have to bother with the truth, they just have to make the echo chamber repeat their spin on the truth.

So while I think many would take heart at such a statement, strategically it wouldn't be wise to make. Just as Kerry is now a 'flip-flopper' for voting against the 87 billion when it wasn't paid for and voting for it when it was paid for, Bush is a strong leader for threatening to veto the 87 billion when it was paid for, and supporting a version that wasn't paid for. Understand? :crazy:

I think even if that is the case, Democrats are too fearful of the Republican media advantage--better to take it head on and try to bring it down than having to constantly fight with one hand behind one's back.

[maggrwaggr]

10. so the pundits now run the country?

if that's the case, it's time to kiss the USA goodbye

[jpgray]

11. No, but they have tremendous influence on the public (nt)

[maggrwaggr]

13. So? We need our own pundits. We need leaders who aren't afraid for God's

sake.

Why is everybody so FRIKKIN scared?

Isn't there anyone with any courage or convictions out there?

OH yeah, there's Michael Moore. One guy. Who's not running for office. Great.

[jpgray]

17. We have those leaders, but they don't win national elections

Nader says just about everything right (what he does is another story), and he can only boast 3% of the vote.

[maggrwaggr]

24. Nader hasn't won the democratic nomination

Kerry has

[jpgray]

29. And there's a reason for that

People voted for Kerry over Dean or Kucinich, and they will vote for either Kerry or Bush over Nader. If all America wants is a leader who espouses progressive values, why do the candidates who espouse those values lose?

[LiviaOlivia]

19. LOL

If the house is burning down get out than think of remodeling.

[depakid]

18. A pander is a panderer

Whether he panders to the media's so called "conventional wisdom" or whether he straight up panders to the right.

Frankly, I think his statements sounded WEAK- to the point that he came across no better than the shameful Dems who went along with the charade in the first place- that strategy certainly worked well for them in 2002. I imagine it will work even better in 2004... especially now that the record is clear beyond any reasonable doubt.

Like you said, people want strong leaders- and I submit they want candor, not more disingenuous. If the Dems keep up this sort of kid glove approach, then the House and Senate will remain Republican for sure.

[maggrwaggr]

27. that's my point. Gangsters are admired in this country

because they're strong.

Bush is admired because he's not afraid to kill people for what he thinks.

I'm not joking here.

[nostamj]

4. "the president lied"

perfect! and then the ONLY coverage of Obama would have been THAT QUOTE...

you are naive. well meaning I'm sure but... you advocate the utter destruction of Obama. sad. really sad.

on edit: just an suplus "M" that's all....

[maggrwaggr]

12. I think that would have made Obama a hero to millions

By your logic, F911 should have pandered to Bush and the corporate media.

Good grief.

Did I get on the conservative underground by mistake?

[LiviaOlivia]

6. You got your point across already..

go register some voters.

[KC21304]

8. Back again, eh ?

Calling Obama a " traitorous piece of shit" was not enough ? Or are you having second thoughts ?

[dennis4868]

14. I like your response, but...

I would talk about the proof that Bush lied to get us into war so that I do not sound like a wacko....I would talk about the fact that Bush said that Iraq had a massive stockpile of Bio weapons, that Iraq had unmanned aerial vehicales that could carry WMDs to the USA, that Saddam had a 911/al Qaeda connection, etc...none of which was in any NIE.

What is so wrong about a politician talking the truth, especially when peoples lives are on the line?

People here at DU seem to think that Obama was right for not calling Bush out on his lies. I think they are wrong...great politicians are not worried about the consequences of speaking the truth.

[maggrwaggr]

20. Exactly. Great politicians aren't scared little puthy cats

We need leadership in this country and the only place we have it is, according to a lot of posters here, is from the corporate media, the pundits, and FEAR itself.

Good God, don't you realize that fear creates exactly that which you fear?

George Bush wants us to be afraid of him. The right wing media wants us to be afraid of them.

I'm glad it's working so well. Not.

[mellowinman]

16. I'm thinking it took Obama

more than twenty seconds to get himself into the position he's now in: Becoming a Democratic Senator from Illinois.

What is your problem with Obama?

He basically said, "no, I don't think Bush LIED, (because he can't PROVE it,) but he handled things badly."

That leaves the door open for "our guys will handle things better."

What's hard to understand about that?

I don't understand Obama bashing. This is the guy that "funny" GOP-er's said "Obama, sounds kind of like Osama" about.

This is the guy that had GOP stalkers following him around with a camera crew just waiting for him to fuck up.

Yeah, he needs YOUR advice.

Like he needs a fucking third ARM!

[maggrwaggr]

23. all your average Joe will hear from Obama is "George Bush is sincere"

what's so hard to understand about that?

Nuance doesn't sell cars or anything else.

Why would you want an alternative to Bush if Bush is "sincere"?

Is he saying "Bush is sincere but Kerry is more sincere?"

Nobody's gonna buy that.

[dennis4868]

26. "no, I don't think Bush LIED, (because he can't PROVE it,

see post 14 on how he could have easily proved it...with the facts!

[maggrwaggr]

30. yeah, how much more proof does anyone need?

I think the American people all know Bush lied, and they're waiting for someone to say it out loud.

There's a reason F911 has made $100 million bucks.

People WANT to hear the truth. They're dying for it.

[qanda]

21. Well, then get on TV and say it then

Go run for office and say whatever you feel in your heart to say. It's unfair to sit from your seat of judgment and try to control what comes out of anyone's mouth. Everyone is a critic and from the reaction here I would have thought the man had endorsed Bush today. Get a life!

[Moderator]

32. locking.

Please post comments on one of the other DU threads on this topic.

Thanks for your consideration.