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Memekiller Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:39 PM
Original message
E-mail SPAM needs debunking...
I've found the several sites discrediting the Tax Foundation, but what about the numbers on Bush and Kerry? Here's the e-mail:

Subject: Interesting (Tax Account) numbers!! Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day." This is the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government. This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since 1991. It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special about those dates? Today John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave no explanation and provided no data for this claim. Another interesting fact: both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. John Kerry is worth well over $1Billion. George W. Bush is worth only about $30 Million. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame). Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own. Pass this on. Only 111 days until the election.

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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. The bush family has hidden much of their wealth over the
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 04:45 PM by molly
years. Take a good hard look at the dynasty starting with Prescott.

P.S. I want to see pics of the "ranch". Didn't they invest millions into it?
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. those houses are Kerry's wife's
Snopes has this debunked
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Snopes had part of it
As far as the four mansions:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/homes.asp

The aggregate value of these five homes is roughly $29 million, but the claim that John Kerry "owns" all of these properties is problematic. John and Teresa Kerry signed a prenuptial agreement and have kept their premarital assets separate. The Boston townhouse (which John Kerry mortgaged in 2003 to finance his presidential bid) is the only one of these homes that they own as a couple; the other four belonged to Teresa before her 1995 marriage to John Kerry, and some of them are even still listed under the name of her late husband.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. I Think The Tax Burden Has Passed
To the local/state governments to collect in order to maintain the same services at a reduced level.

You can't get something for nothing.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tax Freedom Day
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 04:54 PM by WoodrowFan
OOPS, that was a British site... sorry. They made an interesting point at Adamsmith.com, however. They included BORROWING in their figures, something the RWers here ignore. The caculations also are distorted by including the higher tax brackets with the lower, so it pushes the middle class date later in the year. The earlier date in 2004 is a reflection of the lessened burden on the rich, it does NOT mean the middle classes have less of a burden.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Amazing what you find when you google part of the first sentence
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 04:53 PM by RatTerrier
Here's a start:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22Every+year+an+independent+tax+watchdog+group+analyzes%22+&btnG=Search

Outdoors Unlimited ISP... Taxes Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". ...
www.outdoorsunlimited.net/cgi-bin/news/viewnews.cgi?id=1089050643 - 18k - Cached - Similar pages


US Hunting Forums®™ - Tax Freedom Day...... Subject: Tax Day Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". ...
http://ushunting.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=Rant&action=display&num=1086901617 - 33k - Cached - Similar pages


Small cut and paste... **Tax Facts*** Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". ...
www.taxidermy.net/forums/IndustryArticles/04/f/044CF00438.html - 3k - Jul 18, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages


Democrat.com - politics message board / chat / political forum ...... TAXES. IP: 67.41.15.252 Jul 17, 04 - 10:34 PM, TAXES Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax >burden on Americans, and then ...
http://pub15.bravenet.com/forum/1273894211/show/327814 - 23k - Cached - Similar pages


democrats give conservatives indigestion: Tax Freedom Day?... Tax Info. Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". ...
www.dgci.net/archives/001102.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages


Hostboard.com, Your Message Board Partner:: Taxes... Reply With Quote Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the averages tax burden on Americans. and then calculates ...
www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/108/t/8031 - 25k - Cached - Similar pages


Consistently Chili: Monday, June 28, 2004... taxes. Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". ...
http://utech.blogspot.com/2004_06_28_utech_archive.html - 54k - Cached - Similar pages


vita mea... Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day." This is the day after ...
http://vitamea.hedlit.com/ - 40k - Jul 19, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages


Eunuch Archive Message Boards - Kerry's Candidacy...... .. MacTheWolfComparison of Wealth and Taxes Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the ...
www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-5584.html - 21k - Cached - Similar pages


xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http ...... http://www.martydee.com/poligov/archives/002772.html"> <title>Tax Freedom Day <description>Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average ...
www.martydee.com/poligov/index.rdf - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. I thought Kerry was from Taxachusettes?
Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000.

Using their "fact(tm)", it looks like you better vote for Kerry and hope he brings his "Taxachusette'" style librul gubment to the Washington tax code!
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's INCOME TAX Freedom Day
Ignoring some taxes such as payroll taxes and capital gains taxes, is a typical repuke ploy. If they factored in capital gains, then the Freedom day would have come later in the year than it does not because capital gains taxes have been reduced dramatically.

John Kerry is worth well over $1Billion. George W. Bush is worth only about $30 Million. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame). Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that sound right?

If the repukes want to tax wealth instead of income, I say "BRING IT ON!!"
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. What I did when I got this
As usual, the freepers pass things around without checking them out or thinking about them. I computed the date of the election as per the e-mail, and sure enough, it turned out to be around November 24. I told them I sure hoped he and all his like-minded friends went out and voted on 11/24.

I mean...would you send out an e-mail without checking the accuracy of the date of the election?
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. The curious one I find in this is the statement that Bush is...
Edited on Tue Jul-20-04 05:40 PM by punpirate
... "only worth about $30 million."

Bush, on his own, was worth very little until he arrived at Harken. He borrowed something like $500,000 to get in on the roughly $89 million purchase of the Texas Rangers in 1989, and bought an additional $100,000 interest a year later. He was paid a $200,000 salary from about 1990 through 1993, when he resigned to run for governor in 1994. By that time, his total investment in the Rangers was $606,300, most of it paid for by the sale of Harken options.

While governor, the sale of the Rangers went through for $250 million, and because of a clause that gave Bush a bonus if the team were sold at a profit, his share was $14.9 million.

Okay, from 1990 through 2000, Bush made about $1.5 million in salaries as general manager of the Rangers and as governor of Texas. Some of that had to go to expenses and taxes, so let's say that Bush were frugal and invested $1 million of that. By 2000, with the sale of the Rangers, his net worth would have been $16 million. His "ranch" land would have cost about $1.6-2.0 million. The house is reputed to have cost $4 million to build (it looks unassuming, but it's got its own expensive recyclable water system, alternative energy heating and cooling, etc.).

There's been some suggestion that a lot of the heavy-duty stuff in the house was donated by friends and manufacturers, so let's say Bush's cost for the house was $3 million. His investment in land and building the house might be $5 million. He hasn't sold it, rented it out, so it's static wealth on which he made no money, and has had to pay property taxes. That leaves him, from the time he became the (p)resident, about $11 million to be put in blind trust. His salary is $400K per year. He had to spend some of that, if only for tuition for his children and taxes, so let's say he saved $1 million of that. $12 million to invest, plus the house.

Um, the math: ~ $30 million - $5 million for house - $12 million 2003 net wealth = $13 million. If the assertion of $30 million wealth is accurate, That means that Bush's wealth has increased from investment by roughly 108% in his three and a half years in the White House, about 36% per year in one of the worst markets in some of the worst economic years since Bush I's term.

I'd like to know who's managing his portfolio. And, I don't think this sort of increase in wealth has been reflected in the taxes he paid....

Edit for syntax.
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Memekiller Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. E-mail debunked...
http://www.whoslying.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=557&Itemid=26

Background

The following e-mail has been making the rounds.

Statement/Action

Subject: Interesting (Tax Account) numbers!! Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day." This is the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government. This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since 1991. It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special about those dates? Today John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave no explanation and provided no data for this claim. Another interesting fact: both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. John Kerry is worth well over $1Billion. George W. Bush is worth only about $30 Million. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame). Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own. Pass this on. Only 111 days until the election.

E-mail

Though the e-mail refuses to name the "independent tax watchdog group", it appears to be referring to the Tax Foundation.

Reasonable Inference

This e-mail is accurate.

Contradictory Statement/Action

Let’s take the claims one by one, shall we?

Subject: Interesting (Tax Account) numbers!! Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day." This is the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government. This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been since 1991. It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000.

From Spinsanity:

Facts Freedom Day

More cooked-up numbers were recently distributed by a conservative group called the Tax Foundation, which released its annual calculation of "Tax Freedom Day" - the day on which the average American supposedly has earned enough to pay his or her federal tax bill. This gimmick is widely covered by the media each year despite its reliance on a misleading analysis that overstates what the typical American pays in taxes.

Because of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, this year's Tax Freedom Day was calculated to be April 11, the earliest in 37 years. The foundation employs a relatively simple formula that divides total tax receipts and total national income by the number of taxpayers, calculates the percentage of average income going to taxes, and figures out how many days it would take to pay that bill (assuming no other spending).

The Tax Foundation calculates that the average American will pay 17.9 percent of income in federal taxes in 2004. But that finding is inaccurate because it fails to take into account the progressive nature of the U.S. tax system. Because a small percentage of wealthy Americans pay a disproportionately higher share of their income in taxes, their tax payments can exaggerate the average tax bill paid by middle-income families.

The liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities concluded that households in the middle fifth of the income distribution will pay an average of 14.7 percent of income in federal taxes this year. That amounts to a 22 percent exaggeration that would move Tax Freedom Day back about 11 days. And this is actually the smallest error the Tax Foundation has made in recent years. CBPP found that the group's calculation overstated the estimated average tax rate for households in the middle income quintile by 26 percent in 2002 and 28 percent in 2003.

Although the group has engaged in the same deceptive analysis year after year, journalists continue to report it as fact. Outlets that have already reported the new misleading Tax Freedom Day include Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume, New York Newsday, the Miami Herald, and United Press International.

In the end, what's being taxed is voters' patience.

See also:

Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Apr. 8, 2004.

Disinfopedia

Media Transparency

Notice anything special about those dates? Today John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave no explanation and provided no data for this claim. Another interesting fact: both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. John Kerry is worth well over $1Billion. George W. Bush is worth only about $30 Million. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

The aggregate value of these five homes is roughly $29 million, but the claim that John Kerry "owns" all of these properties is problematic. John and Teresa Kerry signed a prenuptial agreement and have kept their premarital assets separate. The Boston townhouse (which John Kerry mortgaged in 2003 to finance his presidential bid) is the only one of these homes that they own as a couple; the other four belonged to Teresa before her 1995 marriage to John Kerry, and some of them are even still listed under the name of her late husband.

Snopes

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

As stated above, Kerry signed a prenuptial agreement and he and his wife have kept their premarital assets separate. John Kerry had $395,000 in taxable income (almost half of Bush’s) in 2003 and paid $90,575 in federal income taxes, or 23% of his income. His wife paid $750,000 in Federal, State and local income taxes, 14.7 % of the $5.1 million in income. In 2003, Bush paid $227,490 on an income of $727,083, or 31 %.

See also:

Tax Foundation’s letter asking Phillip Morris to “renew its support”·




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