Re: EXPLOSIVE INDICTMENTS. Why won't Asscroft block them?

[Merlin]

I was all excited about the info from FTW on the LBN thread:
FTW on Plame Case: GRAND JURY WILL SOON ISSUE EXPLOSIVE INDICTMENTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=647133&mesg_id=647133

Then I got this message from a savy friend:

I'd love to believe this is true, but isn't this guy Fitzgerald just some hack from Ashcroft's Justice Dept.? He doesn't have the same independence now that the Republicans got rid of the independent prosecutor after they publicly humiliated Clinton for doing the same thing that 50 million other American men have done. Do you really think this won't just be another whitewash that will quitely go away like all the others. The Bushies have gotten away with so much already why would you think this will be any different?

For once, I don't have a ready answer.

Any opinions?

[molly]

1. This was treason. Someone will need to pay the price

[Dems Will Win]

2. Unfortunately no, Ashcroft CANNOT block the indictments

as a matter of fact he recused himself from this case because he hired Rove to run his Senate campaigns.

SO HE CAN'T DOUBLE TOUCH IT!

This means President Powell, however, and we would have to run against an incumbent black President.

I hope you're ready for that....

[Merlin]

5. I fear you are very close to correct.

I don't think they'll nail Bush. I think Cheyney will take the fall. And that will mean VICE President Powell (I've been predicting VP Powell in '04 for 3 years now). That will be terrible, terrible trouble for us and for our party for years to come, imo.

[Stephanie]

6. I doubt it

I doubt that Bush/Rove would pick Powell. He hasn't been deferential enough. He has on rare occasion talked out of school. I think they will pass him over.

[Dems Will Win]

16. They really won't have a choice.

Powell is orchestrating the whole State Dept./CIA coup d'etat here. They will have no power.

Besides, Bush can't put Jeb in as VP or Ashcroft, the only other star the Repubs have is McCain.

He could let Hastert become VP and then Pres I guess to screw Powell and make sure he gets his pardon. Powell just might not give the boys his pardon, so they go Hastert.

Maybe that's the ticket...

[KoKo]

9. What credibility does Powell have left, though? I don't see the worry.

:shrug: With the Repugs both Cheney and Powell are popular, but I think the average American swing voter or Indpendent isn't going to think it makes a dime of difference whether Powell replaces Cheney or not.

[Merlin]

22. I don't think that matters. He automatically draws 1/3 of the black vote

at least, and that comes right out of Kerry's pocket.

Many Bushies will wince at the idea of a black VP, but when they realize the tectonic political shift this will cause, they will quickly get on board.

I don't see any flaws in this logic. Sorry.

[billybob537]

23. Republicons would vote for Kerry over Powell.

Theres no question Powell is being used to draw black voters.

[meg]

26. President Hastert

Unless you think he had something to do with it, too

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. I hear Fitzgerald is quite the bulldog

He already brought down a republican governor in IL. I don't know if there is anything Asscroft can do to stop him?

[mom cat]

12. We have to be ready to hit the streets if ANYONE has a plane

accident. That includes anyone who can influence the election from Fitzgerald, Randi Rhodes, Michael Moore any candidate, their family, friends, staff, etc. These bastards are willing to do anything to stay in power... including mass murder. They have already pr oven it. Their non-lethal tactics are failing. We should be ready for the rough stuff. I, for one have a bag packed to go to the White House just in case they start the murders. We must not be silent if there is another Wellstone or Carnihan!

[Mnemosyne]

19. AMEN!

[Stephanie]

4. Ashcroft was forced to recuse himself from this case

Comey took over and appointed Fitzgerald. I believe both are career prosecutors out of the Manhattan DA's office (Morgenthau). By all accounts Fitzgerald and his team (out of Chicago) are bulldog prosecutors who don't give a damn who you are. If you have committed a crime they will make sure you do the time. From what I hear. FWIW.

Wilson himself pointed out repeatedly that he had faith that the "career professionals" in CIA and Justice would make sure that this matter was pursued. Career professionals as opposed to political appointees. Some people in government just want to do their JOBS.

[ronatchig]

7. Actually.

I remember reading that Fitzgerald is a career Fed. prosecutor with a straight arrow reputation.
Also, the BFEE has created a lot of enemies in powerful places who would not mind a bit seeing them do the perp walk. For example , Pat Leahy(a former prosecutor) and one of the more powerful men in Washington probably doesn't take well to be told to get fucked.
Another that comes to mind is Sen. Byrd who was in the Senate for about 25 years before Bush was AWOL and Cheney was dodging the draft. Others come to mind but to paraphrase a partner in the cabal that would rule the world, it's those unknown unknowns that will kill ya.

edited for grammer
PS man you guys are quick, I need to practice the typing skills to get up to speed :):

[madrchsod]

8. fitzgerald sent the first trade center

terrorists to prison. he turned over every rock to get the saudi`s in the chicago area but came up with little to show for it and just recently ended the 8 yr investigation with over 30 arrests of the largest gang drug enterprise in chicago. he will turn over every slimy rock in washington but i think he`ll get near the truth but he won`t be able to do anything...the cia has pretty much figured this out several months ago,this is why they have sent out "retired" agents across the world to get the cia`s side of the story and approved the latest release of the "unknown agent" insider story..
thanks-dyew ,i forgot about ryan but even bigger take down is segal, he was the "fixer" in the tangle of chicago-springfield politics and contractors

[UTUSN]

10. Faux Floating FITZGERALD as Jack RYAN's Replacement

The flakey "Faux & Friends" this A.M. had a speculative item (as their usual substitute for news) as to whom the Repukes would replace RYAN with. They listed three, one of which was FITZGERALD. That's one way they could derail his caseworking.

[madrchsod]

14. fox and friends must have been

smoking some really good shit to come up with that..that`s the last thing the republicans would want-someone that is honest-

[lil-petunia]

11. Up in northern Illinois

and especially Chicago, (Our motto - Where's mine?) we grow our politicians to be crooks and frauds from an early age, regardless of party affiliation. For a time, we were convicting one Chicago Aldercreature per year for 25 years running. Some even tried to get re-elected from prison!

Our last governor (R) was just indicted for misuse of his prior office, as are all of his top aides. The Mayor of Chicago (a real DINO) has major fraud and corruption allegations pending against his top aides, their replacements, their replacements' replacements etc.
The top money grubber, Mickey Segal, (R &Ds equally) just got convicted of fraud, wire fraud and more, and looks at 20 yrs in the pen. He might crack and talk about most of the pols he funds and bribed over the past 20 yrs. Many of them are scared. Guess whose brother helped run Al Gore's campaign and worked for Segal pulling in millions and paying out more? John Daley, brother of Mayor Little Big Man.

A man whose testimony was about to launch a huge investigation (1998) about fraud, bribery and corruption in Mayor Daley's City hall, was convicted on unrelated charges. He made a deal to tell all. Two city thugs came to him and said, "If you talk, you, your son, your wife, your two girl friends, your other kids will be killed. Leave now and forever hold your piece, if you want to keep using it." Rather than show up for prison and future testimony, he ran to Mexico. He was just caught last month. The City sent two "investigators" and tried to bribe his attorney (I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP). Why two investigators working for Mayor Daley would try to interfere with a federal extradition and investigation effort - well, you get the idea about politics in this region.

With that backdrop, Peter Fitgerald (R) retiring senator after one term, pulled an honest attorney, the aforementioned Pat Fitzgerald (no relation) to be US attorney for the Northern District of Illinois. Since then, the worst of the worst bribers, thieves, and rats of all sizes and denominations have been scurrying for cover - and legal help. He has put away a number of hard nuts, he is indicting ever increasing numbers of corrupt pols, something we have in oversupply stocked and greedy.

Pat is a fine, upstanding, honest, hard-working lawyer. It is no surprise that he will be indicting PLame creeps. I am sure he has built an iron-clad case. I just hope he stays in Chicago after the next election.

[Merlin]

21. Very impressive, lil petunia.

You must be the Illinois Molly Ivins!

[AP]

13. Perhaps because he has to worry about a perjury charge for his 911

testimony.

[Renew Deal]

15. Who Bush?

He didn't testify under oath so he can't be nailed for perjury on that.

[lil-petunia]

17. But

I thought that there was a federal reg that you cannot lie, under oath or not, to an investigator questioning you about an active inveestigation. I am sure that is a crime in itself, without being under oath.

[comradebillyboy]

18. you are 100% correct

telling fibs to the feds is a crime also.

thats what martha stewart was convicted of.

[AP]

20. No. Aschcroft. He testified that he didn't tell a doj laywer...

...that he didn't want to hear about terrorism in 2001. But the lawyer who said that he was told that had two or three corroborating witnesses who said that he did say that.

[KharmaTrain]

24. Fitzgerald Got A Repugnican In Illinois: George Ryan

He's the man who got the indictment on George Ryan (trial still pending) here in Illinois. And this was the man who was Bushyboy's state campaign manager.

What's more, Fitzgerald got that investigation moving off center. Word is he is a very straight arrow who got people to talk and broke the log-jam that led to what looks like a very solid case for sending Ryan up the river.

If you're looking for ammo about Fitzgerald's operation here, I'd suggest searching the Chicago Sun-Times website on the articles regarding the Ryan license bribery case.

By the posturing of this regime, I think they've already battened down the hatches for indictments, and there is still a lot of stonewalling going on. Remember, the Plame game remains only red hot if there are big indictments and before the election, afterwards it won't have the same import. I'm hoping Fitzgerald has done his homework and has some big fish on the hook...Scooter Libby would be a nice start.

[Padraig18]

25. Pat Fitzgerald is a honest veteran prosecutor, not some political hack

Ashcroft won't DARE to interfere, and as soon as the indictments are handed down, the defendants had better get fitted for orange jumpsuits, because Fitzgerald won't indict anyone he doesn't KNOW he can't convict!