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Grover Norquist introduces a new meme: Nazism = German socialism

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:16 AM
Original message
Grover Norquist introduces a new meme: Nazism = German socialism
On C-Span this morning, Norquist, the Trotsky-worshipper, equated Reagan's war against "Russian socialism" with FDR's against "German socialism."
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fertilizeonarbusto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. that man
is so full of shit he stinks all the way over here. I really want to see that fucker brought down.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. He should be in jail
He's been so eager for Arab-American votes (pre-Iraq) that he's helped those funding terrorism.
One of the reasons Nazis, who were right-wing, hated Jews is that they were seen as left-wing.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Norquist's partner
Abdurahman Alamoudi has been accused of taking part in a plot to murder the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. Norquist should be asked about this.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Truly disgusting man, Norquist proposed Reagan on Mount Rushmore
asap

he chairs the Reagan "Legacy" committee

Isn't Norquist some sort of perverted fascist freak???

He spooked the shit out of me on cspan/
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lanparty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. No German Socialism ...

It was facism. It was a combination of private enterprise run amock with a dictatorship!!!

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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. Actually, this isn't new
The right has been attempting to paint Nazism as leftist for three decades. There argument is sophomoric at best. Since the Nazi party was the National Socialist party, dimwit rightwingnuts (redundant, I know) claim Hilter was a socialist.

Stupidity knows no boundaries with these people.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yes, but I've never heard it so baldly equated with socialism.
They usually try to play a semantic game, knowing full well how transparently full of shit they are. They don't usually state a bald-faced lie like this as common knowledge unless they're trying to shift the playing field. Will FOX be now referring to Hitler's German Socialism?
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. Jesus, that same bullshit again?!
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 11:26 AM by RandomKoolzip
No, it WASN'T REAL SOCIALISM! Socialism has nothing to do with the authoritarian regime of the Nazis. Yes, THEY called it socialism, but the Russians called Stalin's government "Communist," but in reality it had nothing to do with Marx's ideas. This is just another attept to make those on the left look evil to those who don't comprehend nuanced ideas beyond the thinnest of surface appearances.


Authoritarian dictators use the aura of "socialism" the same way republicans use the aura of "morality." It's a canard. And it plays perfectly into the hands of those who would like to "hunt down Democrats with dogs" (Phil Gramm's words) in the name of "freedom."


I wish someone had a picture of Grover Norquist, nude, in a bathtub.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Ew. Nude in a bathtub.
:puke:

Note that this is not a claim that National Socialism is socialism. This is a claim that Nazism is "German socialism" as Communism is "Russian socialism."
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Right.
Semantic gymnastics. The same kind of wordplay they despised Clinton for using.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Nazi's are socialists...
just like China is a Republic.

Anybody else remember the German Democratic Republic?

I don't care what the name themselves; they weren't socialists. If Nazis are socialists, then Chucky Manson is a Christian.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. Still, it does go nicely with his prior meme

equating taxation with the Holocaust

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1008-07.htm
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. Goober Norquist is a fat moron
Who does this guy think he is?
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EdGy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Nazis put German socialists and other leftists in prison camps...
This twisting of history and the facts is EXACTLY what the Nazis themselves did.

Amazing how Norquist is following the Nazi playbook.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. The right-wing is constantly trying to make Hitler a left-winger.
But in order to be left-wing, he'd have to have done SOMETHING left-wing, like nationalizing industry, redistributing wealth, or something. He did NOTHING REMOTELY like that. He used the NAME socialism in NSDAP and even called it a 'workers' party, but it was CLEARLY EXTREMELY RIGHT WING to anyone who lived in Germany at the time, and steadfastly anti-communist/anti-socialist.
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drumwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wingnuts have been trying to portray Nazism as left-wing for a while
They have no shame when it comes to their propaganda efforts.

We can play the same game, too. Wingnuts love to refer to us as "communists," but the contemporary American right are the ones who've taken a page out of the old Soviet playbook, in terms of their methods and practices if not ideology.

It's a cliche for liberals to compare RepuKKKes to Nazis, but Repigs deserve just as much to be compared to the Stalinists, and indeed a lot of DU'ers and some bloggers have already started following that lead.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Actually we should compare Repugs to fascists, not Nazis.
Repugs have little regard for others lives (after they are born!), but they don't claim we need a final solution to the "X" problem (yet?).
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drumwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. we should compare repugs to both fascists AND Soviets.
n/t
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SilasSoule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. Is Fascism historically rooted in left-wing ideology?
Edited on Fri Jun-11-04 09:22 PM by SilasSoule
Great discussion about this very topic from the DU Archives Dated
Jul 2003.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

A sample post from the discussion:

QC (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-24-03 05:41 PM
Response to Original message

5. This is a particularly stupid argument


that the reactionaries love.

Is Red China a people's republic? After all, it's called one.

Was East Germany a democratic republic? After all, it was called one.

In the days before the Cold War, the word socialism had very positive connotations that people like Hitler wanted to take advantage of. So, they called their movements socialist.

But, as Ann Richards likes to say, you can put lipstick on a pig and call it Monique, but it's still a pig.

The one bedrock principle of socialism is public ownership of the means of production. In the case of fascist Germany and Italy, the corporate interests owned the government, not the other way around. Mussolini defined fascism as the merger of state and corporate power. So only an idiot, like the one you are dealing with, would believe that Nazism is actually any sort of socialism.



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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. I love it when wingers try to make Nazis be leftists!
You should relish every opportunity to explain their rich, right-wing heritage to them.

I always tell them to be proud of their heritage and not shrink from their ideological champions.

"Our struggle is the struggle against socialism." - AH ... and every right winger that ever lived.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
20. What's next?
Dems for theocracy? :crazy:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
21. The Nazis and Commies used to slug it out in the beerhalls.
Edited on Sat Jun-12-04 01:06 AM by struggle4progress
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-04 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. Someone out to cut this guys tongue out.
We all know he knows better, or at least those of us who know German history.

How does he get away with this BS is beyond me.
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