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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:50 AM
Original message
In defense of servility
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 03:11 AM by Senior citizen

after all, that's what freepers expect of we the sheeple.
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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. P.S. and if you're going to resist or protest

please do it quietly and in a mild-mannered way.
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. LOL!
Very snarky.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. heh
next thing you know some people will allow themselves to be put in First Ammendment Zones hahaha


Oh,wait :mad:
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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Actually, I'm beginnin to be swayed by some of the civility

arguments.

Doesn't going into Iraq with guns blazing and no regard for collateral damage, make us just as bad as terrorists? Why should we stoop to their level?

And obviously by waging war on terrorism we have alienated most of the world. Wouldn't we get further by being nice?

In fact, if I hadn't seen where it has gotten us, I'd be all for civility myself. And as soon as we get our civil rights back, I'm sure I'll be as civil as the next guy.


:kick:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It's all our fault
If only we had been civil to the freepers none of this would have happened!

We must live our lives so that we don't piss off the enemy.

***************

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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. 'nother kick
Although I guess we won't be seeing any civility from you anytime soon, since our civil rights are probably long gone.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Just as long as they're polite about it.
Can't have any nastiness, can we?
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. kick
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. senior citizen kick
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Simplify
Be civil to people who are or demonstrate civility to you as you relate to them.Do it on a moment by moment real time basis.
Give them a chance(1) to show their ass.
Warn them that they have just dehumanized you or shown their ass.
Give em a change to apologize for it and admit they screwed up and give them a chance to own their own words...
If they don't,take back the vitriol they just dumped,than kick that ass as required.What I mean is don't become an ass yourself..
For if the said asshole has demonstrated they are a bully with no sense of empathy or civility. You owe him no respect.

One thing that gets me when people talk about this is this black or white thinking.
Either be all civil or all kick ass.

Martin Luther King was a pacifist,yet there was weather underground Malcolm x and the black panthers.

Gandhi was a pacifist who inspired..yet there were militant fighters alongside him maybe not working directly with him,but they were both fighting in their own respective ways against the British colonialists.

Pacifists lead by example they inspire us all to grow past our assholes,
Yet there will always be someone who would rather be an asshole.And NOTHING you can say can convince them they shouldn't be an asshole, So what do you do?

You treat them as they treated you,and than when you have topped them,stop.

The bullies see all relationships through the lens of domination/submission.So do what you go to do to top the asshole,Because he won't shut up until you do.

The bullies mindset is the problem with him,and it may be part of his personality itself an illness in his character,think of him like a rabid dog.Nobody likes to put old yeller down,but because he is sick,dangerous sociopath,you must do something radical sometimes for your own safety and the safety of others.The only other way to stop a bully takes alot of time effort,babysitting and emotionally raw work,and it requires the bully to choose to heal himself voluntarily too.

Many narcissistic bullies are unable to see what they do as being wrong.Bullies and elitists just don't understand they are dead wrong.

Just like some people who are traumatized don't know they have been traumatized because they normalized abuse and don't know what trauma really _is_ anymore because they have co-opted what bullies around them say into their own thinking.

Likewise a bully does not understand they are being assholes because their dehumanizing,verbal abuse,violence,cruelty to others has become normalized and they have no clue it is destructive and sick..Talking with a bully that could care less about your opinions,is fruitless.Because he thinks he can do no wrong.Literally.You need to demonstrate why what they are thinking is wrong in a very literal way.Hammer at the weak points in his defenses until you can get past his psychological conditioning,beliefs.Then you may either force a little honesty out of him or get yourself into a fight..Skillful communication is very important here and some folks are not as skillful as others and no one trains you in this culture in how to avoid being suckered by manipulation and abuse and the art of conflict resolution and verbal self-defense without resorting to abusive tactics.. You work with what you have,not all of us can be Martin Luther King or Gandhi. Not all of us can be Malcolm X a Weatherman,or a Black Panther either.

When time is of the essence and the situation is dire politically like now,you will have to stop bullies from getting what they want,which is to dominate all culture and government.At this point pacifism alone is insufficient because people are desensitized and don't know they are being abused by Right wingers . To stop them may require brute force or some sort of bloodless type of rebellion ,a work stoppage or through restraints.Nothing will stop the right wing without them being topped first.In defeat a bully or right winger may be able to listen because you have 'earned his respect'in the barbaric terms he can understand,if you than show him empathy,you must still keep him in your control and be diligent until he truly voluntarily sees what he does is really wrong...because all he understands is reward/punishment/discipline vs get away with it you need to teach him civility.Empathy is painful and bullies and elitists are cowards scared to death of suffering or doing without or losing control..
So every pacifist needs their aggressive back up.Back up that's ethical and willing to do what the pacifist can't do without being gratuitous or over aggressive about it. .

We need both the inspiration of pacifists and the fighting of resistance and activists.Both kinds of actions need to be happening on the same side.Both pacifists and radicals do the job by working different ways but for the same cause to occur together.Scapegoating the civil acting pacifists as if they are wussies or denouncing the radical fighters in a movement just totally defuses hope for meaningful political changes into internecine strife,guilt trips and white hats and black hat ego games it undermines solidarity..and nothing changes in culture.

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gpandas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. agreed, as i've always said...
"it's never 'your turn' to be an asshole
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