So, what happens if gas goes so high people can't drive to work?

[dolo amber]

There are so many Americans barely surviving on what they earn...what happens if the prices go so high they literally CAN NOT afford to get back and forth to work? The usual and rational answers (carpool, public transportation) don't always work. I lived in an area of Eastern KY not long ago that a) had no reasonable public transportation, just a bus that served a small area within city limits; the great majority of people in that area had no access to it, and b) is so spread out geographically that many people drove 30-45 minutes to get to their jobs from their remote locations. The likelihood that they would be able to find a carpool, or even get to the aforementioned bus (which probably didn't go anywhere near where they worked anyway) is very slim.

I realize this is a rhetorical question, as the elimination of the 'lower caste' of American society is one of the goals of this Administration, but surely it's going to cut into their profits to have a large portion of their workforce unable to get to their crappy, no-longer-unionized, slashed-benefit jobs (that they better by God be happy to have), no? :shrug:

[tandot]

1. I told my boss that if gas prices continue to rise, she'd have to fire

me. I wouldn't be able to drive to work anymore(50 miles one-way).

I can't find work in the town I live, thanks to our incompetent president.

On edit: My car gets 34 miles per Gallon

[Robroy]

2. Gas is actually cheaper..

now than it was during the Carter presidency, when you allow for inflation. At least that's the right wing hate radio soundbite lately. So, we should all just shut up and be thankful that prices are so low.
These pundits conveniently omitted to point out that by this same line of logic we are making a lot less now than way back then.

[htuttle]

41. Back when Carter was president

If you graduated high school you stood a darn good chance of being able to get a factory type job that paid well enough for you to buy a house and support a family...single-handedly.

Those days are long gone, and won't be back.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

56. Actually, I believe the highest adjusted-for-inflation gas prices

were under Reagan.

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp

[0007]

58. Show me how you figured that one out?

[hunter]

3. Workers can't afford to commute, suburban mortgages go "upside down"

It's a fine recipe for economic disaster...

[FreakinDJ]

10. Amid the already way to high housing price bubble

here in Ca. I would say all the ingredients are nicely in place

[robbedvoter]

4. It's OK, there aren't any jobs anyway. A Modest proposal comes to mind

(Swift: feed the homeless to the hungry)

[dolo amber]

5. Touche`

;)

[RandomKoolzip]

6. Well, by the time gas goes up to $4 a gallon....

By then, we'll be drilling in ANWR, getting the last possible remnants of fossil fuels out of the earth, and will have no choice but to switch to hydrogen or some other sustainable energy source. Of course by then, much of the population will have perished, due to circumstances surrounding the impending peak oil crisis and the situation you just described, ie not being able to afford food.

It's all part of Grover Norquist's "starve the beast" philosophy. They want the size of the lower, laborer classes to shrink to the point when they can drown us "in the bathtub," in the guise of "lowering the size of Government."

Sure it sounds crazy. But so does invading Iraq for no reason, and we did that too.

[texastoast]

74. I don't think so

We all know that ANWR's capacity contains about six months' worth of "the spice" for us badly addicted Americans. And that is likely the last possible remnant of fossil fuel for which the majors can keep most of the profits, but only on this side of the planet and north of the equator.

The whole deal about needing to stablize the Middle East is to get the pipeline to Siberia. There lies the oil of the future for America. Too bad the ports freeze in winter and the tankers can't run. Gotta have a pipeline.

Stupid freepers who think ANWR is the answer are, as usual, idiots or deep off in likely clueless denial.

[eyesroll]

7. I think the ripple effect from higher gas prices is going to kill whatever

"recovery" we've supposedly been having.

If fuel costs more, then the cost of shipping goods and transporting people, via truck and via plane, will increase. Thus, the cost of food and clothing and whatever else we buy that needs to be shipped will increase. The cost of the visit from the plumber will go up. "Energy surcharges" will be tacked on to airline tickets, hotel rooms, etc.
And this isn't even "greedy corporations" -- plenty of small businesses whose margins are razor-thin will have to pass their increased costs on to their customers, just to stay afloat.

Bus fares will need to go up, or else taxes that subsidize bus fares will need to go up, or else governments will have to tap into "reserves," and lower reserves damage a government's credit rating, which means the cost for the state to borrow any money will also go up. Either way, everyone will end up paying for it.

People will end up spending more of their income on fuel (directly and indirectly), and less on big discretionary purchases.

Couple that with the interest-rate increases that Greenspan's going to initate soon (to try to combat the inflation that they say will occur because we're "recovering," but it's more likely due to fuel increases -- ever wonder why they take energy and food out of the core index that measures inflation? Because they swing like this). Suddenly, that adjustable-rate mortgage payment that sounded so good a few years ago will go up. It'll be harder and more expensive to borrow money for emergencies or big purchases.

Something big is going to go down, and it's not going to be pretty.

[Catfight]

14. My sentiments exactly...the bubble will burst soon, it's already

inflated as much as it can go before prices for goods and services increase while our salaries remain the same. The middle class will quickly disappear, that pays a predominate proportion of the taxes, and that will revenue will be gone, and we have the makings of a depression...wahoo..."W" WORST President EVER.

But more importantly, those gay marriages are going to be the downfall of America! I say we kick Bush out NOW!

[supernova]

8. People will switch jobs

or for the longer term, I hope, become very serious about usable, safe, and clean public transport. It's worked in Europe for years.

Or switch to and demand more energy efficient cars.

But those are long term solutions, not likely to occur before summer's end. Oh well.

[trof]

9. We already carefully plan

every trip into town, about 10 miles away.
No more "Hey, need a loaf of bread" and jump in the car.
Call me anal, but I even plan the most fuel efficient route, running several errands on one trip.

It cost me over $30 to fill up yesterday.

[brook]

80. I do too.

It's about 25 miles r/t for me so I pay higher prices (and only get the necessities) here in town. We have staff meetings -also 25+ miles which I am considering leading a revolt against. The meetings justify the salaries of the 'bosses' who run them and have no direct benefit to we peons. I work for a non-profit - cost me half a day's pay for half a tank this week. Seriously thinking of trying to sell things on EBay and stay home. :shrug:

[el_gato]

11. you can take Mr. Peabody's coal train

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. People would buy less gas. The drop in demand would cause

a drop in the price. Although the price is high, it isn't high enough yet to cause a significant drop in demand.

[Mountainman]

15. I don't think that works so easy.

The price is high because it is munipulated. Gas is a necessity and the demand is rather steady. That's why the price can be munipulated. There is no substitute for gas. The only thing you can do is find other means of transpotation.

[Fovea]

20. The demand is not steady

China and India are exploding in petroleum consumption.
This at the point where we have crested the production/cost curve.

I predicted $3 gal gas by June, and that will be $4 gal by Winter. Expect heating oil to be a bitch next January/Feb.

As for the original question, note my picture.

[Mountainman]

23. For supply and demand to work, people have to be able to freely move in

and out of the market. There has to be alternatives and there has to be many suppliers.

None of this exists in the gasoline market to an extent that supply and demand can work in the short term.

[ArkDem]

16. Wow, someone with some sense!

.

[hunter]

22. Hung out at any truck stops lately?

I dare you to tell the independents that the "invisible hand" of the marketplace will solve this problem.

[Mountainman]

24. I don't agree, because of the dependence on gasoline

they got us by the balls. Why do you think Cheney's task force is all pro oil? They know what you don't I guess.

[trof]

18. Not this time.

Google "Peak Oil".

[robertpaulsen]

75. Or click the link to these threads on the terrifying subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1196017

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1209474

Lots of pro and con discussion, with links to peak oil sites that tell all about it.

[hunter]

19. Supply and demand for gasoline...

The "demand" can only change gradually, especially for people who commute, or people who transport things. They can't reduce their "demand" for gasoline or diesel fuel quickly. Commuters have to relocate, buy more fuel efficient vehicles, or arrange carpools with other commuters. People who transport things tend to be as fuel-efficient as they can be already. Their only option is to increase their prices or reduce their income per mile driven. Independent truckers are in a terrible squeeze right now.

[QC]

44. You're assuming that demand for gas is elastic. It's not.

People might be able to reduce their consumption, but they cannot eliminate it entirely or even come close, unless they live in an area where there is good mass transit. Most places do not have it, and so people in such places, like the rural area where I live, have no choice but to drive to work. That severely limits their ability to reduce consumption.

[Mountainman]

13. car pools

I think people will double up.

I have taken to riding my motorcycle, it gets 45 to 50 mpg but I have to use high octane. I'm not really saving money because if you add my truck payments plus motor cycle payments and insurance less the money I save on gas it comes out about the same as driving the truck. But I get the fun of having a motorcycle.

[Trailrider1951]

17. Some will do what I have done

I moved closer to work and now I ride my bike to work. I am committed to riding every day, rain or shine. I carry a change of clothes with me in my backpack and change when I arrive at work. I also have access to a locker, and I keep a pair of (dry) shoes there, along with a hairdryer and a towel. There's also a shower for when it gets really hot and humid here. (Ever been to Houston, TX in August?) I'm just 4 miles from work and cannot justify driving a car that short of distance. So far this week I've accumulated about 18 miles, I'm hoping I'm on the way to losing the extra 10 or so pounds I've accumulated over the past two years. Any other bike commuters out there?

[candy]

28. Your suggestions are the best---

Another one would be give up the lattes and bottled water,rip offs all.

[GiovanniC]

29. I Congratulate You

On your actions to be more environmentally friendly, less oil-dependent, and more healthy. I think it's great what you're doing.

I live about 12 miles from work, and getting up at 3:00 in the morning to give me enough time to get to work via bicycle... *shudder*. I'm just too lazy.

Which makes me admire you even more.

[MadHound]

45. Twelve miles, is that all?

Hell, it should only take you an hour at most, even in the worst times. I've regularly done a twelve mile bike commute. When I was living anywhere close work I commuted by bike, and have regularly racked up twenty miles or more a day on the bike. If you are looking for speed, get rid of the mountain bike, and get a good touring bike. I recommend a Schwinn ten or twelve speed tourer. Not the fastest, but a very durable bike and can take the regular beating that city roads put on it.

Right now I'm wondering what to do about my thirty mile one way commute. Right now I'm working on the preliminary trials of making my own biodiesel. If all works out well, I'll be burning biodiesel by fall.

Don't be afraid of a bike commute friend. Yes, it will be agony for the first month, but once you get in shape you will love it, and won't go back. Nothing blows off stress better than bike riding, and the exercise will put you in fine shape.

[GiovanniC]

48. Keyword: "LAZY"

I'm not necessarily saying that I couldn't do that commute (and at 5 miles per hour, it would only take an hour, I realize).

But right now I get up at 5:30 in the morning to get ready for work and I still barely make it in on time.

I'm trying to get motivated for something like that... maybe if gas prices continue to skyrocket, I'll be there.

[MadHound]

50. LOL friend

But there are two bonuses. First, the endorphin rush is great, puts you in a fine mood for the day. Second, the opposite sex will *really* *really* like the shape you're in. But hey, I understand the deal about overcoming inertia. And you're right, nothing like a pinch in the wallet to get those feet a moving;)

[RT Atlanta]

37. about to start doing the same thing trail

I live in ATL and will start a new job on Monday 3 mi from my house. I drive an old clunker that is ineffecient fuel wise and will ether bike, run, or am considering getting a scooter for the short haul to the office.

[rustydad]

39. Bicycle

I just ordered a Golden Eagle power unit for my Cannondale mtn bike. Powered by a RedMax 25cc motor. Goes over 30mph without peddling (can peddle at will). Weighs a bit over 10#. Gets 300mpg. Uses a cogged kevlar belt to drive the rear wheel. Has three speeds. I am going to use it to commute 50 miles round trip. Got a kiddy trailer for hauling the heavy stuff. Bob

[Scairp]

59. Nah

Horse is a better choice. They eat the grass and earn their keep by producing fertilizer. And your legs don't get tired riding one.

[NickB79]

67. Excellent point about moving closer to work

The past few decades have seen millions fleeing the inner cities, first to the suburbs, and now to rural areas where everyone wants to carve out their own little 5-acre plot of land from what used to be productive farms and forests. With the price of gas so cheap, this was feasible because the commutes didn't cost enough to make a significant dent in overall income. In the meantime, the inner cities have been left to decay, left to the poor. With the loss of money, the businesses followed the migration of the middle-class outwards, further eroding away what remained of the inner cities and the job opportunities of those forced to remain there.

We need to redevelop the inner cities. We need to get suburbanites and businesses to focus inwards again rather than building on the edges of cities and contributing to urban sprawl. Build more multi-story buildings rather than flat, one-level strip malls sprawling out in all directions gobbling up land. And with this redevelopment, we need a working public transportation system rather than a few buses running on irregular schedules.

[dolo amber]

68. Your last paragraph is spot on

Sounds a lot like this place I've heard of...some magical, far-off land that we could NEVER be like...I think it's called "Europe" or something...

;)

[samhonk]

70. True

Good point, and one which reminds me of an interesting site -

try http://www.carfree.com for a look at thoughts about building an entire city without any need for cars. I consider it mostly useful as a thought exercise, because nobody just sets out to build a city for a million people from scratch (and the author is aware of this), but it's a good resource, with a bunch of links, for ideas about city planning for accomodating humans instead of cars, and related issues.

[jobycom]

21. That's not a realistic problem. Higher gas prices might even be good

In the long run.

Gas prices affect any item that is shipped, so food could go up, or even become more scarce in some regions. That's going to cause bigger problems than commuting to work.

But this spike in gas prices could turn out good in the long run. The spike is caused by several factors, some related to Bush's Middle East actions, some related to the growth of China and their increasing demand for fuel.

With China as a rival customer to us, OPEC and other oil producers have another market, so that we may not be able to dictate prices the way we have in the past. That weakens our role in the world, since it makes us less crucial to the world economy.

It also strains the world resources on oil, and means we could run out, or at least outstrip our ability to produce or purchase.

Given these problems, America might have to explore alternatives. Solar and wind power are doable now, they have just not been profitable enough so far to create the demand. This could change quickly if oil prices stay high. It could cause local, state, and even our federal government to divert some money to a serious energy plan that includes reducing oil need, thus giving us cleaner sources of energy, and less dependence on foreign oil, and thus, less need to invade the Middle East four times a decade.

Which may be what OPEC has in mind, if you think about it. With the US as the only market, they have had to put up with us invading and slaughtering civilians (what does that matter to oil barrons?), but with other markets increasing, perhaps OPEC is trying to drive us away.

We have a huge economy. It's a mistake to assume that our economy is based upon one or two industries, or that a crucual industry's collapse would destroy us. Take the 90s-- a lot of people credit the technology boom rather than Democratic economic policies for the great economy. That's wrong-- the Democrats made the economy receptive to the tech boom, which could have happened at any time under Reagan. Our slump now is because we failed to react to the changing circumstances fast enough, but it is only a minor slump, and will even out. The luxury half of our economy is slumped, but the core bread-and-butter (literally) side of our economy is still sound, since it is based in a deeper bedrock than the transient tech economy. It would take a lot to destroy the core of our economy-- more than the Republicans can do in a few years.

A shift back to a labor-based, rather than an owner based, version of capitalism will immediately open up markets, and something will boom. Now, with oil prices high, is the perfect time to guide the boom towards energy technology. Put solar panels on every roof in the south and west, for instance-- the tech is there. Develop incinerator toilets, wind power, public transportation, etc.

The danger is if we hold onto oil too long, and we may have, so that the Middle East sees us an unwelcome burden, and shuts us down cold-turkey. That could devestate us. It would cripple even the bread-and-butter aspect of the economy as sales and even large-scale farming would decline with the lack of fuel. We have to solve the problem before then.

Damn. Another long essay that no one will read. Sigh.

On edit: I didn't mean to imply that the current slump is only a luxury slump. It affects everyone. I just meant that it won't destroy the base of our economy, not that it isn't causing extreme hardship and suffering.

[samhonk]

36. I read it...

And I agree, FWIW.

[jobycom]

53. IW a lot to me!

Thanks.

[librechik]

25. Why don't they use their savings? Besides, walking is healthier

especially if you're walking to wait on me...

(channelling Barbara Bush)

[Jackpine Radical]

26. It's not just driving to work.

Increases in gas prices will result in increased shipping costs, increased airline costs, increased fertilizer costs, heating costs, etc. In other words, just as in the Carter years, petroleum cost increases will result in a sudden spurt in costs across the board, and before you know it we get a spike in inflation. People start losing their houses and SUVs, banks can't sell all the repossessed stuff, nobody but the very rich can buy new consumer goods, and the economy crashes.

[Nadienne]

27. We'll pay the price.

We'll get more credit cards in order to buy our groceries, and we'll tell ourselves that things will get better. The American Dream. Some Day My Ship Will Come In.

Why have we allowed the cost of living to go up so much?

Because "some day things will get better, and I'll be able to pay off my debts"

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. They have to move or find new jobs

- it's not rocket science.

Am I applauding this? No, I'm just answering your question.

[dolo amber]

52. In the area I'm referring to

that is just not an option for most people; there are strong family bonds that keep them in place, and there are no jobs with which one can sustain even a poverty-level existence in lots of places. I still have friends in that area, I've tried using that logic on them thousands of times. I might as well be telling them to move to Mars.

I doubt that Eastern KY is the only part of the country that is like that as well.

I'm not trying to dismiss your (obviously correct, in theory) argument, but it's just not that simple for some folks.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. I'm not talking about options. I'm not talking about choices.

I'm talking about necessity. I'm not saying it will be simple, or easy. The fact is, life as a poor person is a lot harder, and a lot more unpleasant, than life for those with greater resources.

I have moved because I could not find work capable of paying the expenses in the place I lived. Several times. No, it wasn't easy, it wasn't simple, and it wasn't what I wanted to do.

[samhonk]

55. OK, then,

What options DO your friends have?

Or are you asking for some? If your friends won't listen, and you non-dismiss suggestions by saying they're "just not an option for most people" (I'd be curious to see the figures you're citing, too) - what are you asking for?

[dolo amber]

57. I'm not really asking for anything

Just wondering what people's thoughts were on the subject. And without being all melodramatic or anything, unless they decide that they will move, they really have NO options. It's a cultural thing that I certainly don't pretend to understand, but to them, they'd rather live and die on *their land, with their people* than move elsewhere. I'm talking about very rural Appalachia, it's not something most people understand w/o experiencing it firsthand, and as I mentioned previously, I STILL don't pretend to understand. :shrug:

I am concerned for people I know who live there, or more to the point their kids...what becomes of them if their parents are too stubborn to leave? But mostly I was just asking a general question. I'm sure there are plenty of other folks who would/will be affected by this, regardless of geography.

[samhonk]

62. I don't think people should have to move...

I don't have an attachment to any place as strong as your friends do, but I can understand it. I just think there are other kinds of options, like bringing work to them instead of figuring out how to get them to work. Part of why I oppose car-culture is that it can get hard to see alternatives to driving, if driving is the only approach anyone ever discusses.

I hope things work out for your friends. I've had to move to change jobs, and I don't wish it on anyone. The first step is acknowledging that there could be a way for things to work out for them.

[BeHereNow]

31. Well, since there are fewer jobs everyday...

it shouldn't be a problem!
Trying to be humorous in a humorless time,
BHN

[samhonk]

32. Car culture comes home to roost...

This is a very worthwhile topic to discuss, and one that's nearly impossible to have a rational discussion about, regardless of the participants' politics. In my opinion the single biggest obstacle to overcoming the energy mess we're in is the hysteria over the transition from car culture to a saner one. The first reaction to suggesting alternatives is almost always a flat denial that anything like it will work, often with accompanying ad hominem attacks about the suggester's politics / motives / ancestry. I am not suggesting that anyone has attacked me, or will, but I've seen a huge number of discussions about this online and I know how they go. So, this post reads a bit like a legal document because I would rather head off unproductive arguments - not all arguments; I'm happy to discuss different approaches to fixing things but would rather discuss fixing things than get in flame wars.

It's taken a century of hard work for America to get as addicted to petroleum as it is, through marketing, technological development, shortsighted and corrupt politics, and building sprawling cities that require cars.

It's going to take time, effort, and trouble to get back off it. As tired as the comparisons of oil addiction to heroin addiction are, there's some truth there - we're even mugging an entire country to try to keep our supply up.

There is a difficult time coming while we change our way of life (there's no doubt in my mind that we have to, but it doesn't have to be mass death and abject poverty). I view this as an opportunity to restructure things so that car dependency is greatly reduced, while in no way suggesting that this is going to be easy. Either we can point fingers, become despondent, scream that everyone's going to die; or we can try to do something about it. Or, more likely, many will do the former and a much smaller number will do the latter and bring about whatever positive change actually happens. I applaud those who are working on solutions or even just trying to lessen the problem, and encourage anyone who isn't to take it up.

I agree that carpooling and public transportation are inadequate in a lot of areas, but dismissing them as solutions isn't helpful. They are the best option we have until our cities are reorganized not to depend on cars - either by redistributing workplaces, allowing people to work from home, new and higher-density development integrating business and residence more closely, or some combination of these. To me these make more sense as long-term goals than, say, hydrogen cars or making oil out of garbage because:

a) we already know that it's possible to move businesses and people, and build houses, even without a petroleum-based economy,

b) we know that that will work to reduce energy needs - witness pre-20th-century cities, while (for instance) hydrogen cars aren't as certain to,

c) petroleum use isn't the only problem with cars - a child run over by a hydrogen car is just as flat as one run over by a gasoline car.

There is no One-size-fits-all solution to this problem. It's going to take cleverness, planning, and working together.

So, in the spirit of Doing Something About It, I suggest the following.

Short term:
- carpool, bike, bus, walk, ride a scooter, or whatever WHERE POSSIBLE.
- If you're in a position to drive to work comfortably and know someone who isn't, help them out by giving them rides.
- conserve gas. Kudos to the posters who are planning their trips.
- support local businesses, and try to keep local farms and stores alive because the whole "warehouse on wheels" thing is going to collapse once the oil supply becomes unreliable.
- agree or disagree with me, but get discussing these things productively. Help others be aware of the issues and challenges.

Medium term:
- do what you can politically to advocate public transport, mixed-use zoning, etc.
- learn about, and support, biofuel technology for farming and transportation.

Long term:
- support non-sprawl development, rail transport, and local farming and manufacturing.
- if you lean toward hydrogen energy, fusion, or other such solutions, advocate and/or invest in them. I don't think they're not worthwhile, they just seem to me to be too big a gamble to stake too much on.

- come up with some other ideas! We're a smart bunch here.

Disclaimer: Here's what I'm doing. I don't claim that everyone can, or has to, do the same things, or that there isn't more I could be doing, but here it is:

I am lucky enough to live within a mile of where I work, so I walk. The fact that I can is in no way a suggestion that everyone can, or has to. I walk or ride the bus to the store, unless I'm planning to buy something too heavy to carry myself. I own a hybrid car, and in the last 14 months have put only 5000 miles on it. I vote, and write my political representatives locally and nationally, to support public transportation and smarter development, and oppose oil exploration in protected land as well as colonization of foreign countries to secure oil. Finally, I'm teaching myself in my spare time about proven alternative energy technologies, such as solar and wind power, as well as improving the energy efficiency of my house, in a longer-term attempt to get off the grid.

[Donkeyboy75]

35. Well done.

It's nice to see a discussion started in this manner with no personal attacks. Not once did you call drivers "lazy" or "stupid." :thumbsup:

It's a good idea to do what you can individually, but as you will probably agree this is not enough. One important thing: if we are going to support alternative energy policies we have to make sure these are sound, rational proposals. Do you know that when Bush proposed the huge funding for hydrogen-based fuels cells that the source of the hydrogen was petroleum-based? It's incredible! And nobody called him on it.

Anyway, just wanted to thank you for writing a mellow, well-reasoned post. :hi:

[samhonk]

40. Thank you!

And I'm glad it came across as mellow and well-reasoned; I get pretty agitated about all this.

Agreed re: craziness of Bush hydrogen thing. As much as I hate to generalize, it's pretty safe to say that any energy proposal * supports is probably not a good one.

[Donkeyboy75]

33. I honestly think within the next ten years we'll see company dormitories

like they have near a lot of factories/sweatshops in Asia and other areas. This way, there's no need to commute, housing is cheap, and most importantly the company can have an even greater control of its employees.

[the_real_38]

34. Most important question of the day...

... I'm already driving less, and I'm going to start riding my bike to work, but that's because I don't live that far away. Some commuters are really going to be hurting. And that means less money in the consumer economy.

[Gregorian]

38. They'll ride bikes

Like I did for ten years. Rain or shine.
And it's fun. And it's healthy. And it's free.

This doesn't address the issue of shipping.

But one thing is certain- we didn't have cars for the entire history of the human being. And we survived. And we weren't destroyed by unhappiness. In fact, just the opposite. We were healthier, and happier. Screw shipping. Screw Ebay. Localize our lives.

(I really have to contain my anger over this issue. I want to scream when I hear people whining about gas prices. Or that they can't ride a bike because they live so far from work. Or they have so many kids that they can't shuttle them on a bike. The only reason I can think of for not riding a bike is not having legs. Or being ill. In that case, we'll come to you. )

[QC]

46. Well, I want to scream when I hear people

insisting that their own experiences apply to everyone else's lives, but it really doesn't do any good.

Urbanites can certainly cut down on their driving, but when you live out in the sticks, as I and many others do, bikes are not the entire solution to the problem. And when you're poor it's not possible to run out and drop twenty grand for a Prius.

There's some rejoicing here about high gas prices, but it conveniently ignores the fact that people who are barely getting by as it is are the ones who will feel the pain. The Hummer crowd can afford to pay more, so they will not be affected.

[napi21]

42. I lived through the gas rationing of the 70's

at that time, it wasn't so much price as availibity. If your licence plate ended in an even # you got to buy gas only on certain days, the other days were for the odd #'s. The lines at the stations were horrendous and many stations just ran out of gas between deliveries.

People are very ingenious when put in a tough situation. The newspaper had a contact line where you could register to find carpoolers somewhere along your route, etc. (No internet then!)

If I remember right, some of the hospitals rented vans to pick up medical staff and take them back home.

Don't underestimate the American ingenuity.

[samhonk]

49. I was a kid in the 70s

And I remember the gas-line days. In fact, the talk about alternative energy and transport in those days has inspired me ever since. I agree about not underestimating ingenuity, and would add that great things can happen if they're encouraged. In fact, I think great strides will start to happen as soon as conservation and alternative energy / transportation are no longer actively DIScouraged.

It's goofy, but one of the best inspirations about alternative energy for me was a Mad magazine comic by Al Jaffee - he showed e.g. having big treadles in the movie theater so the watchers could pedal to power the movie, and stuff like that. It was absurd, but clowning is a great way to get people thinking about new ideas.

[brook]

81. So did I.

But in the 70's I had a decent job and actually paid a college kid to take my car and sit on line while I was at work.

[htuttle]

43. Ride a scooter!

I've been riding all year round in Wisconsin, rain or shine, so I don't want to hear any whining from anyone south of me about the weather.

I spend about $1 per week on gas, and nothing on parking. Everyday I sit there at the stoplights on my way home, and see that 90% of the vehicles driving past have only a single person in them. That's just stupid!

[KansDem]

47. Living tankful to tankful...

People living on the economic edge used to live from paycheck to paycheck. Now they live from tankful to tankful. Or rather, they ration their gas purchase to coincide with payday.

Just this morning and facing summer school tuition for my two kids, I asked my wife not to fill the tank in her car, but rather only to put in enough gas to get us through to Monday when we anticipate the arrival of a a much-needed check.

This hurts workers the most who have no benefits, such as vacation or sick leave. As a full-time worker with benefits, I can "call in sick" and take 8 hours (a day or so before payday) if I don't have enough gas to get to and from work, and no geld in my wallet.

[catmandu57]

51. We used to have an interurban rail system

Many people who live in my town drive to a larger one to work, there was sometime in the beginning of the last century a rail line for commuters. The system is long gone, but, the rail bed still exists, and, a new light rail could be built upon it.
The same thing could be done for suburban cities, a light rail system could run along existing hyways to a mass transit collection point.
I'm familiar with living in a small rural area and having to drive many miles to work, we may have to install a mass transit bus system to keep the cities from exploding into overpopulated areas.

[KayLaw]

60. Beware biking, though.

I ride my bike daily and sense some feelings of hostility from some car drivers, though I stay well out of their way. I was riding my bike to the pharmacy today and remebered last fall when the Clear Channel jocks were telling drivers to run us off the road. I won't stop, though.

[heebyjeebus]

61. You lot complain about being a nation of fatties..problem solved!

What are these long things protruding from my torso, anyway?

[SemperEadem]

63. What happens when gas is so high that people just stay home

and don't frequent vacation/tourism sites?

When the gas price starts to affect the economy, especially businesses which target expendable income--movies, theme parks, retail stores, etc., that's when things are going to get real interesting.

Oil is already above $40/barrel. People's income being cut, jobs being cut--they don't have as much spendable/expendable income as they did even a year and a half ago. The first thing that goes are the luxury items.

[Gregorian]

64. Right now as I look out the window

I live next to three houses. Those three houses have EIGHT cars going all at the same time. It pisses me off no end. This is a daily occurence. Like it's my business to be telling people how to live their lives. But this is the addiction we are dealing with. I'm glad this discussion is finally being aired a little.

[EndElectoral]

65. What work? Don't have a job to drive to.

[cushla_machree]

66. is it wierd for me to say

that americans kinda deserve this?

We had cheap oil for years now. most of the rest of the world pays even higher prices for gas. In Europe its mostly small, compact cars.

Maybe instead of trying to reduce prices, our government should try and improve efficiency. I am not a fan of what kerry has been saying about gas, and how we should open the reserves. Americans use too much gas, thats THE PROBLEM.

personally i laugh everytime i go to the gas pump with my small car and an SUV pulls up. sucks to be them!

[welshTerrier2]

69. We Need Much Higher Gas Prices

We are destroying our planet unnecessarily.

We cannot continue to burn fossil fuels at current rates ... global warming is pushing our planet towards catastrophic devastation ...

In an ideal world, governments would plan for an orderly transition to new modes of transportation ... resources would be diverted away from current technologies and be diverted towards mass transit and towards alternative energy ... but capitalism by its very nature seeks short-term profits for its greedy captains of industry ...

At some price, fewer gallons will be burned ... regardless of who suffers the most, there is no alternative to reducing our dependence on fossil fuels ... it is not an option ... we cannot argue: "well, i know about global warming, i know about cancer, i know about the extinction of many species on our planet, but that's not as important as the effect of fuel policy on the poor." ...

This is not to say that those hurt the most by higher prices do not have legitimate concerns ... they do !! But the solution to this problem seems very simple to me ... until a more rational energy policy can be put in place and until we can build a real mass transit system nationwide, we must subsidize those who cannot afford increased gas and energy prices ... just as there are certain "heating oil fuel programs" for the poor, so must we recognize that gasoline is a necessity, not a luxury, and those who cannot afford it must be provided with some help ... to this end, we could easily provide a "fuel tax credit" to those below some amount of annual income ... that helps those who cannot afford the increased prices but allows us to continue discouraging the use of fossil fuels through higher prices ... btw, any windfall profits that accrue to businesses as a result of higher prices should be taxed away to subsidize those who cannot afford to pay for fuel ... and price gouging should be met with stiff prison terms ...

Recognizing those in need should not preclude support for any policy that leads to a reduction in the burning of fossil fuels ... higher gas prices are good policy ...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. We'd have to revert to some pre-modern ways of life

Rural people, for example, might start riding horses or hitching Dobbin up to a wagon.

People would start moving into the city to avoid the commute. There would be public pressure for better transit and more facilities for bicycles.

We'd have to eat more locally produced food. This would mean that oranges might be a luxury for non-Southerners and non-Californians, so Northerners would have to get their Vitamin C from strawberries or cabbage. Stuff like that.

WalMart and other big box stores might go out of business. :-)

[robertpaulsen]

72. How about hyperinflation on a scale not seen since the Weimar Republic?

Chicken Little, maybe. But don't misunderestimate Dumbya's capacity for fucking this country up completely. He's just buttering us up for brother Jeb, the real master thief.

[guitar man]

73. I'm screwed

I have a 91 MILE commute to work,one way, which effectively eliminates bicycling to and from work. I do have a cool boss who lets me use an empty office at work for a bedroom, where I have put an air bed in to sleep on. I usually go to work Monday, stay until Wed.,go home, back to work Thursday and home for the weekend.

My car isn't exactly a gas hog at 26-28 mpg,but it does burn premium,so that adds about 20 cents a gallon. My home in Tulsa is paid off, so it doesn't make any sense to move to Oklahoma City for a $10.00/hr job,especially since my wife works in Tulsa.

Even with all the adjustments, the price of gas is still killing us. I wish there was an equivelant job available at home in Tulsa, but so far it ain't a happenin'. Us working folks are just victims of greed, plain and simple. :grr:

[guitar man]

76. Also

It would be real nice if we had a commuter rail service between Oklahoma City and Tulsa. I don't see that happening though. With assholes like Ernest Istook bitching and moaning about the Amtrak train we already have, comm. rail service is probably out of the question for folks in my predicament.

[leftofthedial]

77. no jobs anyway

so what difference does it make?

[Disturbed]

78. The Glorious Leader

of our 4th Reich will twist the arms of OPEC
members, expecially his buds in Saudi Arabia, and the price will go down about a month before the election.
About a month after that they will go up again.

[VOX]

79. This will measure the degree to which America is addicted to oil...

Like any other drug, as long as the junkies keep paying for for their fix, no matter the cost, there's a market for the drug.

How long before Americans -- average, middle-income Americans -- say "no" to this petro-outrage?

[Nikia]

82. This is a problem in my area too

I live in rural Wisconsin in a county where the biggest city is under 10,000 people. My best friend lives in a county where the biggest city is under 5,000. The result is that many people who live around here have to drive for work and shopping. For couples, even if one spouse has a job nearby, often the other will have to drive a long distance. I live only a couple miles away from work. Yes, we moved nearby my work on purpose. Many of my coworkers are driving 20-30 miles to work. Our plant pays a couple dollars an hour more than most of the low skilled jobs around here. Still, with the rise in gas prices, people are really hurting. Often their families have lived in the area for generations. The ones that did move out here to escape the city often did so that their children could be educated in decent schools. I don't know what the solution is. Unemployment is already high in these less dense counties.