Is being gay a choice?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Poll question: Is being gay a choice?

[Speck Tater]

1. No, Except, of course...

that one might make the choice before one's current incarnation.

[polar]

2. Yes...and no

I would say 'No' for most cases but I know sometimes people just get fed up with people of their own gender and decide to change. I would say this is more common with women that are just tired of mens' behavior. I would say more repulsion than attraction.

[TexasBushwhacker]

66. I was thinking about that too ...

... women who aren't lesbians by nature, but have been abused by men in their life so much that having "love" feelings for them just isn't possible.

What about boys who are molested by pedophiles? It's not necessarily physically unpleasant, in fact it might be just the opposite. If they've become aroused by a man, does this make them .... confused? Can this make them homosexual even if that wasn't what they were predisposed to be? I apologize if this sounds totally lame or offensive.

[malatesta1137]

3. oh yeah!

I would definitely choose a life of being ostracized, humiliated, rejected by school mates, family and co-workers over a straight lifestyle ANYTIME!!

[dsc]

4. I think for the vast majoirty of people

being gay has no element of choice. Way too many of us gays give up in actuality or possibility for me to believe it is a choice. Even the fear, let alone the actuality of losing ones parents forever over this issue colors our childhood and teenage years. That doesn't even count the fear of loss of friends which is no small matter.

[ieoeja]

5. I think everyone is born bisexual.

I believe sexual orientation develops as part of our growth and that it is affected by many external factors during that period.

[LoZoccolo]

40. "I think ever'body a little bit gay."

- Margaret Cho imitating her mother

Actually her impersonations are the best part of Notorious C.H.O. in my opinion. One thing I really didn'tlike was her sudden swerve into preaching about eating disorders smack dab in the middle of comedy with little warning. It was just kind of weird and unexpected. I was like wtf.

[kevinhnc]

6. Sigh

Its so disheartening when anti-gays continually go on about how being gay is simply a choice, and the world would be so much better if we just choose not to be gay. What I really want to ask them is "How the fuck do you know, are *you* gay?!?"

I don't see how anyone who is not gay can vote anything other than "I don't know, but all evidence points to probably not."

Is being heterosexual a choice...I must say...I don't really know for sure, but I think not.

[Mountainman]

20. Unless you have a gay family member

I have a gay family member and I know pretty damn well she didn't choose to be a lesbian. She didn't even know what a lesbian was.

[gratuitous]

7. Put me down on the yellow stripe

For "who cares?" It's none of my business what someone else's sexual orientation or preference is, and it's not the government's business, either.

[Kikosexy2]

9. No...

not a choice. I assume everyone has some "gayness" in their genes...or is it their jeans--ha ha--j/k. I'm a happy homo, single and loving it--and a Bush-hater. Now as for Repubes and being gay = oxymoron!! Can't understand how that equates.

[David__77]

8. I'm gay, and I picked "other." Here's why...

Someone certainly CAN choose to be "gay." "Gay" is not the same thing as "homosexual." I think that a homosexual orientation is not chosen, but I do think that self-identification as "gay" is. That might sound like nonsense, but I think there's something to it.

Further, I don't personally care if it's "chosen" or not. Sometimes I am concerned that too much focus on this question distracts from the message that, whether chosen or not, homosexuality and being gay are not at all wrong or immoral.

[David__77]

10. I should say that my views are probably colored by my experience...

I didn't have too much trouble compared with many people coming out and personally accepting my homosexuality. I didn't fear losing family or friends. So it doesn't seem to strange to me that, say, a bisexual person who could choose to primarily identify as either straight or gay, might just choose to be gay. Doesn't seem at all strange.

[trof]

12. Hey David

I have a gay friend named David. Met him through his parents, also friends. In their 70s and live in coastal Alabama.
Is that you?

[David__77]

26. Nope!

In my 20s, live in California!

[trof]

29. Shucks.

:hi: anyway.

[mosin]

13. Yes and no

I picked "sometimes yes, sometimes no" for mostly the same reasons.

I also don't really care one way or the other if it's a "choice" or not. Way to much time is spent debating that point. Whether something is a choice or not, doesn't change make it wrong.

[NCLib23]

19. I don't think its a choice

but the answer is at the crux of the legal argument, if it is a choice, then there is a lot less legal standing for discrimination charges.

[David__77]

28. But why would that be?

We also outlaw religious discrimination. And adherance to a particular religion is certainly "choice." Someone can "choose" to not practice their religion. So whether or not being gay is a choice isn't especially relevant to me.

[NCLib23]

57. From a legal perspective

there is a distinction made between inherent or immutable traits and decisions.

Courts use a 4 pronged test to determine if a law or act violates equal protection. The group being disadvantaged must be all of the following:

(1) discrete and insular class (immutable trait)
(2) history of invidious discrimination
(3) lack of effective political power
(4) discrimination against the class is grossly unfair.

If it is determine being gay is a choice, then the first one fails. That being said, they aren't free to be discriminated against, just the bar is that much higher and many arenas do not fall with legal jurisdiction.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

14. Excellent...a very nuanced post...I picked "no",,,but I agree w. you.

I aslo think people can self-repress themsleves, if they are somewhat bisexual, and sort of "choose" the "straight" option, but they still have that homosexual attraction operating to some degree.

[trof]

11. Read "Brain Sex"

Changed my whole way of thinking about the man-woman-hetero-homo thing. Not a choice. We come pre-wired. Just a matter of degree which way.

[NCLib23]

15. I've read it a few times

and I own the book.

Great read, though I would love to see if Dr. Muir (SP?) had any more research to write about.

It does pose some very interesting points concerning physical wiring of the brain, size of parts of the brain and such about gender specific roles.

Though if you accept her work, which I think looks good, you then have to give weight to what are now considered sexist positions like the old 'men are good at math, women at language' and their ilk. Also, in the extreme could be used to justify sexist highering practices.

[trof]

27. Best line in the book:

"Men are good at reading maps, women are good at reading people."
Truer words were never spake. MIz t. can size somebody up in 10 minutes of conversation and tell me things I never would have guessed.

I don't think it should lead to sexist hiring practices.
Nursing and teaching used to belong, almost exclusively, to women.
As did doctoring and lawyering to men.
Now I think people tend to hire those who are good at the job, regardless of sex and (I hope) sexual orientation.

I think some generalities MAY apply, but I don't think we're nearly as "gender job oriented" as we used to be. And I think it'll keep getting better.

Having said all that, why would I, a male, still prefer a female nurse?
jeez
;-)

[MotorCityMan]

16. No; Unless...

You take into account of whether you are going to be true to your nature, or deny it and conform to what others think you should be.

[usregimechange]

17. I have studied this question and the answer is...

Mostly not by choice.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. The commentary I left off the original post.

Because I think it makes the poll result better if I don't put any opinions in the original post.


If being gay is never a choice does that lead to the conclusion that there are gays who are living a straight life but have not come to the realization that they are gay?

In that case, since I don't think of myself as gay, don't I have to assume that I just might be mistaken about myself?

Which would mean that all gays can be sure they are gay, but everyone else has to assume that they might be gay as well. It makes logical sense but it sounds unlikely.


What about people who are bisexually active - some considering themselves 'gay' and some not? Are they all gay?

I personally think that who you are sexually attracted to is overblown as descriptor of 'who you are' anyway. My personal opinion is that it is mostly, but not exclusively, genetically determined but it really is not a very important datum about someone, imho. (Unless you want to have sex with them, I suppose.)

[Mountainman]

21. I think I had a gay period in my life

There was a time when I was young that I was attracted to other guys. I didn't do anything about changing but for some reason that was a phase I went through. After a while I wasn't attracted to guys anymore.

[foreigncorrespondent]

43. That's because...

...every single person on this earth is born bi curious. Some will pursue that to see if they are indeed gay, and others will brush it off, only for it to come back and bite them in the butt later on.

Some will deny it from the get go.

Some will be bisexual through out their life.

While others will go through a period of being bi curious, maybe explore that side of their life a little and then all of sudden will begin living a completely heterosexual life.

It isn't a gay period you experienced, it was a bi curious stage of your life.

[kevinhnc]

24. What conservatives don't understand

Being gay (truly, not just in name), means that you not only have a physical attraction but an emotional and intellectual attraction as well, to the same sex.

Much of it doesn't have anything to do with the sex act really. You just know that the person you want to be with and share your life with will be the same sex. I assume it's the same for heterosexuals, which makes me sorta see why they don't understand how others can be gay...it just feels so natural to them to be attracted (physically, emotionally, and intellectually) to the opposite sex.

It is rare if ever that someone doesn't know all along that they've been attracted to the same sex. They hide it from others, and deny it to themselves. "Coming out" makes it suddenly seem like gay people all of a sudden realize they're gay, but in reality they've just admitted it finally to themselves and others.

I don't think you can be mistaken about your attractions, but you can deny them pretty darn well.

[dsc]

25. response

Because I think it makes the poll result better if I don't put any opinions in the original post.


If being gay is never a choice does that lead to the conclusion that there are gays who are living a straight life but have not come to the realization that they are gay?

In that case, since I don't think of myself as gay, don't I have to assume that I just might be mistaken about myself?

Which would mean that all gays can be sure they are gay, but everyone else has to assume that they might be gay as well. It makes logical sense but it sounds unlikely.



I don't get your logic here. I think in the case of adults it is hard to find people who actually don't know they are gay, vs being in denial about being gay. I fail to see why not being a choice would make every heterosexual's heterosexuality unstable. Anymore than I should think I will wake up tomorrow and be straight.


What about people who are bisexually active - some considering themselves 'gay' and some not? Are they all gay?

No, they are bisexual. Though they are very likely to be treated the same as gays in the discrimination scheme of things. I think you are mixing up the orientation (het, gay, bi) with appearences and behavior. A bisexual can decide to be faithful to one person and thus appear to be either straight or gay, but he or she would still be oriented as a bisexual. Thus, he or she would still be attracted to people of both genders.

I personally think that who you are sexually attracted to is overblown as descriptor of 'who you are' anyway. My personal opinion is that it is mostly, but not exclusively, genetically determined but it really is not a very important datum about someone, imho. (Unless you want to have sex with them, I suppose.)

In and of itself, you are correct that whom one is attracted to doesn't make much difference. But given the huge difference between the ways that gays and straights often live their lives and are treated by society, there ends up being a big difference. I think I have a much greater appreciation of being discriminated against and or picked on, than I would have had I been heterosexual.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. k

I don't get your logic here. I think in the case of adults it is hard to find people who actually don't know they are gay, vs being in denial about being gay.

are you making a distinction between those two groups? I was just lumping them together. How does the distinction matter?


I fail to see why not being a choice would make every heterosexual's heterosexuality unstable.

That's certainly not what I meant to say, I don't always express myself well.

I think I have a much greater appreciation of being discriminated against and or picked on, than I would have had I been heterosexual.

Well there are plenty of reasons to be discriminated and or picked on. And contrary to the rhetoric, yes, sometimes people do choose a behavior or appearance that would make that more likely. Otherwise, there would be no hippies like me.

[dsc]

46. part 2

are you making a distinction between those two groups? I was just lumping them together. How does the distinction matter?

Yes, it gets back to the difference between orientation and action. I was always attracted to guys and thus presume that is an innate part of me. Presumedly the overwhelming majority of heterosexuals have always been attracted to the opposite gender. Now I may have been living a straight life, I may have been desperate to live that life, but at the end of the day, I dempt of guys when I was by myself.




I think I have a much greater appreciation of being discriminated against and or picked on, than I would have had I been heterosexual.

Well there are plenty of reasons to be discriminated and or picked on. And contrary to the rhetoric, yes, sometimes people do choose a behavior or appearance that would make that more likely. Otherwise, there would be no hippies like me.

Many hippies have hippy parents (at least the current group of them). Yes, there are other ways I could have gotten that appreciation for being the underdog, but for me this was the way. I do think there is a substantial differece between something like being gay and being a hippie. One big difference is that often times the realization one is gay starts comming at an age when one develops the social skills, roles, and relationships that they will have for life. As a frequent worker in middle schools, I must say I have a much greater appreciation of the extent to which I both isolated myself and was isolated back then. I see the treatment of students that are thought to be gay now and while it is getting better, I can still see the tenativeness with which the presumed gay kids behave. I also see the remarks made behind their backs. I think the timing of this, often before self confidence takes hold, matters a great deal and makes the experience mush more searing.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. so

I still don't see what difference the distinction makes. Whether they are all in denial or some or whatever, I just don't see how that impacts what I was saying originally. So let me pose the original question that I used as a premise: If being gay is never a choice does that lead to the conclusion that there are gays who are living a straight life but have not come to the realization that they are gay?



I do think there is a substantial differece between something like being gay and being a hippie.

Yes, that was my point, and especially, for an adult anyway, being a hippie is always a choice. No one has to follow the same lifestyle choices as their parents. Although I do think some very small number of people may choose to live a gay lifestyle, I don't think it is a choice for most.

[dsc]

64. part 3

I guess it depends on what you mean by living a straight life and gay. I think one can easily appear to live a straight life, ie have a spouse, kids, etc. while actually being either gay or bisexual. I also think one can have very repressed bi sexuality and think they were really straight. But I don't think that one can have a close to exclusively same sex orientation, get married, and not know.

My other point, isn't that one has to follow ones parents, but that presumedly a hippie who had hippie parents wouldn't be disowned for being a hippie. THat is a very big difference. When love becomes conditional it really stops being love and while for most homosexuals it winds up being a false fear, it still ends up being a very devastating one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. Unconditional love is an ideal

I don't know how many people live up to it.

[dsc]

67. that is a fair observation

[sdfernando]

22. No Choice

For me, it was no choice. It is just who I am and who I have always been ever since I can remember. I do think, however, there are varying degrees. Most bisexuals are not evenly 50/50, but have a preference for one sex or the other. For them, it can be a choice to live one way or the other, albeit a difficult one to maintain.

[MissMarple]

23. I tend to think of sexuality as being on a continuum.

Most people are heterosexual, but sexuality goes across the continuum to bisexual to homosexual. I think you can find people at all points along the line. And while one's behavior is, of course, a choice, one's inherent sexuality is not. But one shouldn't belie one's inherent sexuality because that is not a healthy way to go through life.

[nostamj]

30. i've had sex with a woman

that was a 'choice'

i've never been attracted to or 'in love' with a woman.

you can chose who you screw but not who you love.

p.s. is heterosexuality a choice? if yes, when/how did you straight folks make that life decision?

just wondering....

[foreigncorrespondent]

Me too! ;)

Only mine wasn't a choice in the way that some will view the word choice in this thread.

On the other hand sleeping with a guy, now that was a nightmare! ;)

[nostamj]

35. "a nightmare"

yes, sometimes I still wake up SCREAMING

;-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-);-)

[foreigncorrespondent]

39. ROFLMAO! (n/t)

[foreigncorrespondent]

31. Is heterosexuality a choice? (n/t)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. It doesn't change the meaning of the question.

Whichever way you ask it, it's the same question.

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. Yes it is the same question...

...but it isn't gay people holding the word "choice" over heterosexuals heads is it?

And yes, I do realize that not all heterosexuals are like that. So no flames.

[ibegurpard]

47. Even if it could be proven that it is

then so what? Religious affiliation is a choice and that is something which is protected by law against discrimination.

[foreigncorrespondent]

49. Oh I agree completely with you.

But, being as how I am a lesbian, and I realize I never actually made the choice to be a lesbian, but rather, I knew all my life that I was, then I can't see how they will ever prove that it is a choice.

[ibegurpard]

54. And I agree with you 100%

I mistakenly hit reply to your post instead of to the thread-starting post.
:hi:

[foreigncorrespondent]

59. No worries! (n/t)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. I totally agree

discrimination is wrong, period. There shouldn't be certain groups of people you are allowed to discriminate against just because they weren't specifically mentioned.

[dsc]

48. But her question is almost never asked

while yours often is.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. Next time I get bored enough to repost this poll

I'll ask it that way. In fact I'm kicking myself that I didn't this time.

[TrogL]

32. I tried the straight thing

It just never really ever worked for me.

I tried to teach myself to be straight (magazines etc.) and tried mimicing the straight kids at school (then I started drooling at them...*sigh*)

[Misinformed01]

34. Feeling love is a choice? Since when?

No, "being Gay" is normal and natural, and I hope I live long enough to see it treated in that manner.

I hate the fact that "gays" even have a label.

I prefer using "people."

[Blue-Jay]

36. What? You mean I have a CHOICE?!?!

Shit. All this time, energy, and money I've spent in my lifetime wooing the female species was completely wasted! Here I could've been doubling the size of my wardrobe (and much more fashionably, I might add), not worrying about birth control, dancing in a Broadway show, and redecorating my home! Who KNEW?

I mean, sure, avoiding people who want to kill me and strip me of my basic human rights would suck, but at least I'd know a good wine when I tasted it, right?

[trof]

42. Who knew?

A lot of food (gourmet) for thought there, Blue-Jay.
I'm changin'.
;-)

[jobendorfer]

52. yeah, this discussion took me right back

to that precise moment at about age twelve and a half,
where, after due diligence and careful consideration
of the evidence, the issues, and possibilities ...
I chose to be a heterosexual.

You know, it's not an accident that Eros is shown
blindfolded.

J.

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[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. Did you choose to have a little green man and not a pink one?

[Az]

44. The human psyche has such a wide range of possibilities

why limit them to such polar absolutes. There are some people who are distinctly attracted to one gender or the other. There are people strewn everywhere in between these two positions.

Your best bet is to listen to what the person tells you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

53. I really think

that these labels are invalid.

'Straight' 'Gay' 'Bisexual' -- I don't think of myself in any of those ways.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

61. the taboo is real, hence the label.

Once you break the taboo of same sex sex the label or stigma is there....the reality, of course, is that sexuality and affection is more complex, but the label comes from the taboo.

[hippiegranny]

51. "being" gay is not a choice

"living" gay is. and living life in one's own truth trumps any negative impact that "choice" may bring.

[Nikia]

58. I know people are definitely gay

It was not a choice for them and some did face alienation from family and friends because of it. It was not a lifestyle that they would have chose if they did fall in love with members of the opposite sex.
I also know people who I know well who are completely heterosexual. They are not in denial about ever having homo/bisexual feelings.
For other people it is more complicated. One could say that they are bisexual, but often they are attracted to each gender to varying degrees and sometimes in different ways. They may choose to be gay for part or their entire life. Others may choose to be heterosexual.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. Yes, life is complicated isn't it?

Your post sounds like the real world as I see it.

[Blue-Jay]

62. "definitely gay"? Hahaha!

Sorry in advance. I'm not poking fun at you, but that phrase made my laugh! It's like saying:

"Jim is REAAAALY gay!", as if there were different levels of gaydom.

or

(fake Atlanta accent. fanning myself) "My, My... I do believe I'm experiencing a little case of 'the queers'".

[SnohoDem]

63. Other -

I don't know. I'm not gay, but I didn't choose to be straight.

[stickdog]

68. Choosy mothers choose gay. (nt)