An explanation of my poll (on homosexuality)

[dsc]

What I was getting at was the fact that even though women were in that prison, even though women were guards, they still relied on man on man activity to humiliate. This is also despite the apparent youth of the guards. Supposedly there is a great generational divide on this issue and those guards are on the right side of it. So it does beg the question, to what extent are we or are we not making progress in advancing the idea that homosexuality is not shameful.

Link to poll in question

[soleft]

1. It has not escaped me that the revelation the abuse inclused women and

children has not created a higher level of outrage. Because at first people were saying - oh no - what if we get evidence that women and children were also abused - then the shit will really hit the fan, but there was no elevated sense of rage.

It's almost as tho we're more used to women and children being the victims of brutal sexual abuse, that the sexual abuse of men does create greater outrage in the minds of some.

[dsc]

2. pics vs no pics

It is as simple as that. If the video of the boy being raped is released it will make this other stuff look like the frat party Rush would like us to believe it was.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

3. Sorry, I missed something..

"So it does beg the question, to what extent are we or are we not making progress in advancing the idea that homosexuality is not shameful."

Sorry, but what does homosexuality have to do with RAPE?

RAPE is shameful... regardless of the 'sexuality'.

As for perhaps your true intent of the question, I personally don't think it has to do with sexuality at all, but again the Male-machoistic mindset of Power.

Being Penetrated is a sign of weakness... women or men... doing the penetrating is a sign of strength/power.

It's psychological, not sexual.

[dsc]

5. I was referring to the conduct in the pictures and nothing else

as that is the parts of what happened in Iraq which seem to be common interrogation techniques.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

6. Would it be any different?

... if the pix contained males & females?

Now THAT truly would be sad if the photos had both males & females naked and/or forcing to copulate .. and the reaction from the general public would be different!

[dsc]

7. I honestly don't know

and that is part of what I am wondering. Given the paucity of male/female activity in comparison to the male/male activity.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Rape is shameful? Wrong

People feel shamed when they are raped but to BE RAPED is not shameful. To RAPE is.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

... technically ...

I'll have to agree with you! (but wish I didn't have too).

Again back to the male-macho-power-trip of being 'in control' is strength, giving up control (by force or compliance) is weakness.

[smirkymonkey]

10. Excellent point

and in my opinion, that is exactly what this is all about: Power and humiliation.

It wasn't about sex at all.

[cheezus]

4. homophobia (and latent homosexuality?) are rampant in mid america

I'm graduating from the university this spring (after 6 years, sheesh), and things have changed. The young guys on this campus are always calling their friends girls, making homosexual jokes about eachother whenever possible, simulating homosexual sex acts on eachother to amuse/humiliate (and this is towards their FRIENDS!). There seems to be a fixation on homosexuality amongst (assumedly) heterosexual males between 18 and 24 on this campus.
so anyway, it doesn't surpise me that many of these kids get shipped over there and exhibit the same kind of behavior.
I just don't understand it, and it seems to be just the middle america hicks who act like this. Perhaps it's that homosexuality is a (according to tv) socially accepted lifestyle, yet people here still feel it's wrong. Those with latent homosexual urges seem to have the greatest need to berate others for being "gay"

[HFishbine]

9. I think your missing the point entirely

It seems to me that the matter is not whether it was man-on-man, but that it was coerced. Forcing someone to simulate a sex act upon another, whether man-on-man, woman-on-woman, or man-on-woman is what's abhorrent and humiliating.

[dsc]

11. Then why did they aparently only force them into homosexual conduct

and why do all the manuals apparently only mention that? I think it brings up an interesting point on the state of this issue.

[HFishbine]

16. Ummm

Because most people are straight and being forced into a sex act that was against your sexuality would add additional humiliation. Both would be horrid, but which would be most humiliating to you, forced to simulate sex with a member of the same sex or the opposite sex?

[dsc]

17. maybe or maybe not

That is a valid point presumedly most people are straight and that might be what it is. I just wonder about the repetative recurrance of this theme is all.

[HFishbine]

20. If your looking for

an underlying cultural bias being played upon, that's probably there. My understanding is that homosexuality is even less acceptable in the Arab world (although, I admit that's just what I hear) which would make the humiliation deeper.

[drfemoe]

14. yeah but

if 'we' don't get enough reinforcement for whatever point is the point here, there will be another thread... and another .. and another.. I guess. Talk about trying to use the torture situation to advance an agenda . . .

[dsc]

15. I really didn't deserve that

you can screw yourself.

[drfemoe]

21. And ..

Some people can throw pity parties 'til the cows come home. Evidently DU doesn't care.

I had gotten a nasty message and was trying to explain myself
From: dsc
Date: May 12th 2004
but you can screw yourself for all I care.

***
And .. sending ME a nasty message resolves your situation exactly how?

[dsc]

23. your nasty missive here came first

though I shouldn't have sent you that in all fairness but it came after your viscious post here. But if it made you feel better to be cruel to me I am glad I made your day a little better. I wouldn't want you to actually have to ignore a thread instead of being a bully in public. Wouldn't want you not to feel better. Glad I could help you.

[drfemoe]

24. Traditionally

DU would limit this conversation to your original thread. Tradition seems to have flown the coop.

I don't have anything against you personally, and I know you rather well (though it wouldn't surprise me if you don't remember).
I'm just disgusted that this board is becoming almost useless, partly due to a new "anything goes" trend.

ps..when I posted in the original thread this am, I was sleep deprived. It happens even in the free world.

I'm still of the opinion this topic should have been limited to the original thread.

[dsc]

25. fair enough

but you have heard of the alert button, have you not? I am sorry for my reaction. As to knowing you you would have to jog my memory as I don't recall.

[drfemoe]

26. Yes

the Alert button is still working, and yes, I did express my opinion .. thus my statement "Evidently ..."

The x thread is not working today, though I never use it except in the Metting Room forum anyway .. servers overloaded because DU has become a show for freeper-dom. And we get to pay for it.

[dsc]

27. I have never tried the x thread function

so I didn't know it wasn't working.

[drfemoe]

28. I only use it for the prayer chains and such

in the MR. Threads stay around forever in that forum.

For more info on server overload >>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=announcement&id=60

Peace!

[TrogL]

12. We haven't seen all the pix yet

[dsc]

13. that might be true

which is why I mentioned the manuals etc. Evidently these people want way beyond what those manuals suggest doing.

[cally]

18. I've been wondering about this question

since I first saw the pics. The rumors are that women were raped and humiliated and something very bad happened to a young 12 year old girl. We haven't seen those pictures yet but I've seen very little outrage about it. Still, the torture we have seen is to simulate or actually take part in homosexual sex acts. Most are saying this has to do with humiliation in the Muslim world. While true, I think it also has to do with the US homophobia.

[dsc]

19. If and when the pics show up

there will be boocoo outrage. Sadly it takes pictures or videos to really stir outrage.

[corporatewhore]

22. i think that rape would be more traumatic if

you were straight man and were raped by another man same goes if you were a lesbian and raped by a man or anumber of any different combos