After seeing the Berg video does anyone have a sense of how the Iraqis

[bhunt70]

must feel from having the torture pictures plastered all over the tv?

Do you think Iraqis need to see any more torture and violence after living through Saddam Hussein, especially now from their new oppressors?

I'll give the world the benefit of the doubt, I believe people understand what crap goes on in war, even if they tuck it back in the dark recesses of their mind, even if they do the neocon shuffle and downplay it like a prostitute with crabs.

Iraqi prison torture photos = Al Quaeda recruiting tool/pissed off Iraqi citizens

Nick Berg murder video = Neocon recruiting tool/pissed off american citizens

I just can't help thinking that in both instances the mass production/distribution/exposure hurts the chance of fixing the wounds that need to be fix. Yes, I want a free press, I want information at my fingertips, I want the ability to see shit I shouldnt see, but I want it to take place in a responsible atmosphere not a political shitstorm. Like it or not this shitstorm happened on our watch and when the rest of the world looks at america they don't differentiate between us and them.

We're fighting a war on two fronts now...against the neocons to get some sense back into our government and against the rest of the world, to restore the perception that other countries have about us. The pictures hurt us on one front (they do piss off people around the world), help us on another(they make this administration look even more like shit).

[patriotvoice]

1. Haven't seen the video (I've been out of the loop).

Link?

(I do know what the content of the video is, however)

[bhunt70]

2. pm'ed a link to you.

[Bombtrack]

3. I don't think it's a neocon recruiting tool. To most people who aren't

already republican apoligists it just makes people disgusted, horrified, and sort of frustratingly hopeless.

I mean 90 percent of american's already view Al Queda as animals that need to dealt with and didn't need this video to remind them of that

[The Blue Knight]

4. Can I get the link PM'd to me too?

[bhunt70]

6. yes good point

I do feel that it energizes the base which in turn could perhaps promote more "eye for an eye" actions from this administration, acting without thinking about anything other than the first kneejerk reaction.

[Union Thug]

5. I saw this coming...

...remember what happened to Soviet troops in afghanistan, with the similar heads-a-rollin' vid?...When the chimp began his slaughter in Iraq I told my wife it was only a matter of time before this sort of video was circulated.

Thanks Bush, Thanks Rumsfeld, thanks all you bad ass soldiers who took such pride in your cowardly little torture "pranks". The blood-beaked ravens have come home to roost.

Did I mention that I hate republicans?

[baldguy]

7. One thing that does strike me.

No matter how barbaric their behavior & no matter how brutally they treated him - Nick Berg's murderers allowed him to keep his humanity. They may think that letting the world know his name and his face and his words may further their cause, but in the end we will always remember only him.

How many people know who the Abu Ghraib prisoners are - or "detainees" as the bushies euphemistically call them. I'm sure they have parents and wives and children, but we don't see that. Even those of us who are appalled at their treatment only see them as a way to attack the administration.

As taxpayers we should know who has been murdered in our name.

[chookie]

8. Iraqis will be outraged too by this horrific act

I would say that, conservatively, 85% of people on the planet were outraged by this horrific act. Decent people everywhere. Including in Iraq. Most people there will condemn it. A few will take glee in it, or condone it as revenge for -- i.e. the equivalent of "freepers" and wackos there.

I think Iraqis are also disturbed by the understanding that they are going to be at the end of American retaliation for this sickening act.

The insurgency in Iraq is not monolithic -- they are not all wacko jihadists. Many are fighting simply because they are angry at the chaos that has ensued, and because they do not trust the Americans to hand over control of their country to them. They also despise wacko jihadists who are capable of this kind of barbarism.

We have a propaganda front in this war -- it may well be that both the Bush Administration and their Flying Monkeys are trying to exploit peoples' emotions, as are the fucking jihadists, who were trying to curry favor with Iraqis by "avenging" those detainees who had been abused. I doubt if many Iraqis feel this act was appropriate redress.

Iraqis may be pissed off MIGHTILY at the American occupation, and may be motivated to fight and even kill Americans in their country -- but would equally be opposed to torturing an American to death in the way the murderous bastards killed Mr Berg.