Would you be tempted to spit on the soldiers in Iraq...?

[kentuck]

More specifically, the prison guards that are accused of the torture and abuse? If you see even worse abuse than you have already witnessed, how owuld you react to these GIs once they return home? The reason I ask, is to put in historical perspective those GIs that returned from Nam and say they were spit upon. Can you see how the issue could become so virulent that it could deteriorate to that?

[SheepyMcSheepster]

1. regardless of what i believe someone did, i am not going to spit on them.

[i_no_knothing]

65. spit not

i feel the pain as they feel it......no spitting please

[drumwolf]

2. no i wouldn't, even for those particular troops who'd actually deserve it

It didn't help our cause during Vietnam to be perceived as having spit on returning GI's and it won't help this time.

Besides, for every soldier that's committed atrocities, there are also plenty of people who didn't.

EDITED TO ADD:

Many of the troops aren't wingnuts but ordinary working-class folks who wanted to help their country (by serving in the armed forces) and themselves and their families (by putting bread on the table and/or paying for college) at the same time, and 'm sure a good number of them didn't seriously expect to go off to combat in Iraq at the time they enlisted. I see many of the troops as being victims just as much as the Iraqi civilians who were killed.

The spit should be reserved for the chickenhawks in the government and the neocons' Pravda/Izvestia-style propaganda machine, not the troops who were little more than cannon fodder.

[Cleita]

3. No, despicable as their actions are, it's really not their fault.

The fault goes all the way to Washington and those in leadership positions in the White House and the Pentagon deserve to be brought to justice about this.

[Q]

5. Sure it's their 'fault'...

...and they, along with their leadership, must take responsibility.

- Spit on them? Hell, no.

[Cleita]

11. We still don't know if they were under orders. I'm sure it will

be revealed who really is responsible for what they did. Until then I will reserve judgement.

[DrWeird]

51. It's OK if they were just follow orders?

?

[Cleita]

56. Of course it's not okay, but there has been discussion

before about disobeying orders in the military. I asked the same question when we went into Iraq. I asked if soldiers could refuse to go. The consensus by military guys was a resounding no. If they disobeyed orders they would be court martialed and maybe even imprisoned. Wouldn't this be the same? Evidently someone who was in there knew it was wrong and leaked the pictures to the media because he had no other recourse. If he couldn't report this to a superior officer, then that officer was probably the one who issued the orders.

[Bok_Tukalo]

4. They should spit on us citizens

for sending over there.

[Minstrel Boy]

29. wow...

I wish American democracy was as vital, courageous and responsible as your post. :thumbsup:

[KayLaw]

6. No

I read a NYT article in which an inmate said the majority of the guards were not cruel. OTOH, this has changed the way I see the troops. Some poor man lost his son over there and I did wonder if he was one of the ones who harnesses and rode the elderly woman, beat or tortured an inmate, raped a kid, but a week ago such a thought would never had entered my mind.

[IrateCitizen]

7. Good God, no! They were placed in a difficult situation...

... and as reprehensible as their actions were, they never should have been there in the first place.

SUPPORT THE TROOPS -- BRING THEM HOME NOW!

[dedhed]

8. No spitting...

I think I'd just look at them with pity, shake my head, and say something like, "you poor, pathetic fools." Then walk away, and never bother with them again.

:-(

[deutsey]

9. No, I would not. I would hope that no one would stoop to that.

[hippiegranny]

10. no, a court martial

will suffice.

[imax2268]

12. No...

and...Hell NO...

[troublemaker]

13. No! Who the fuck spits on people?

[sniffa]

14. um, no.

and some peopLe question the vaLidity of the spitting stories from nam days.

[Malva Zebrina]

15. spit on them?

I look at them and also look at the lives, the ten thousand lives, innocent people that were murdered by our troops and want to smack them in the face in order to get some sense into their heads.

I understand we are not supposed to speak negatively here about our vaunted and sainted troops, or anywhere in the US, apparently, without provoking the ire of those who would support these murders , about our poor little innocent, children, baby, troops.

If it were not for our troops, Bush would not have considered invading and murdering tens of thousands of innocent people. He would not have any power at all, were it not for "our troops"

We are to buy the mantra that we will "support the troops" even though they commit murder in our name and are brutal in their treatment -- they , after all do not know what they do, and are only following orders and have been trained to do so--under their willing consent.

Like the twenty one year old, child, who humiliated those prisoners.

I supported them all for all of my life with my tax money. They have followed orders that advocate murder. They do not have the moral turpitude to refuse to do so and those few who do seem to rise above it, I salute.

There is no pity here from my point of view at this point in time. I cannot support this war, and hesitate to support the troops who are following the orders of fascists.

They are the product of some sort of an insane country that is turning toward brutal, and barbaric , fascism and have convinced these young people that killing others who are not and cannot ever be considered a threat to us here in our homeland, at all, and will NEVER be a threat, is some sort of a Rambo, romantic calling --ie--they are "brave" for invading countries that are little, poor countries, that have NO MILITARY to defend themself or their civilian population.

. But they, our designated enemies, who are no threat at all that anyone in theri right mind can determine, are "evil" according to an evil, but very stupid, man who calls himself the president because his buddies on a corrupted Supreme Court GAVE it to him when it was obvious he could not win, legally, and he calls himself, a "war president" to boot, but who, ironically, was AWOL himself in time of war, and so our troops, bright eyed and bushy tailed, will kill women , babies, children and old men, because they are "defending our freedoms"

They have been compromised for the rest of their lives.

Do not let your children become the pawns of the US whose only motivation can be empire and does not have a thing to do with "freedom" or defending that "freedom"

Our "freedom" is NOT in jeapardy. Our "freedoms" have only been transgressed by our own Department of Justice under Ashcroft.


When I was twenty one, I was grown and knew right from wrong. I was starting my family and I was responsible and matured to that point.

How so very misguided. How we have sunk into barbarism,

That they have turned into animals--no pity.

[BeHereNow]

16. No-

I just want to see them locked up and
the keys thrown away. Contractors and Service people
alike. Any and all involved. Our prisons are filled
with non-violent offenders while truly violent people
are obviously roaming among us freely, and
collecting salaries from our taxes.
BHN

[convict_9653]

17. no

I wouldn't spit on anyone, esp. people who serve.

[robbedvoter]

18. Nope. Just BFEE.

Actually, spitting is pointless. I'd like to lock them in a room with the prisoners& their families.

[markses]

19. God, no. What kind of fucking question is that?

n/t

[Bread and Circus]

20. No! One of my best lifelong friends is in Iraq.

Just because their are some bad apples and a corruption
administration and DOD doesn't make the soldiers bad.

Most of them there, though misguided, are really trying to do
"the right thing" in their own minds.

I don't blame them that they have been brainwashed.

[DinahMoeHum]

21. No. If anything, I would have THEM spit on W, Runsfeld, et.al. . . .

for sending them out to Iraq on the basis of a pack of lies.

If they were gonna fight and die, it should have been in Afghanistan, where at least there was legitimate purpose - to hunt down the al Qaeda terrorists who planned and committed 9/11, and the Taliban, for harboring them.


:nuke:

[texastoast]

28. Now you are talking

Get those old chickenhawks out there in the field.

If the old fart men who stir this stink had to serve, the world would be a very peaceful place.

Put them all the the Superdome and let them have it out with mini M16s.

[proud patriot]

22. Absolutely Not

Not my Style at all .

[progressivejazz]

23. No.

Absolutely not. And I was never tempted to spit on returning Viet Nam soldiers, either.

Why do you feel it necessary to ask the question? Do you think DU members are the sort who would want to spit on our soldiers?

Why not ask the question over at freeperland?

[lebkuchen]

24. I'd end a friendship w/someone holding views similar to Lieberman's

and I'm in the process of doing that now.

That tit for tat argument is gutter sandbox, and I won't tolerate anyone in my circle of friends with those views.

[Postman]

25. No.

n/t

[HootieMcBoob]

26. I'm going to pretend I didn't even read this

more playing into their hands.....
happens every day here

[kentuck]

30. Totally misinterpret the intent of the post...

Did you ever read of reports of Vietnam vets being spit upon? Because of the reported acts they did over there? This post is a good barometer to see if we have progressed from that point. I feel encouraged by the responses. I think it was a good question. No one can interpret it ohterwise.

[HootieMcBoob]

32. You're right

I'm afraid I read the subject and the first couple of sentences and came to a conclusion based on that. You're right to ask the question and it will be a good measure of where we are in relation to Viet Nam. My fear is that the conservative press will do exactly what I did and use the subject to paint liberals/progressives and DU in particular in a way that would be hurtful to us and what we want to accomplish in the long run. I don't like that I even need to think about those things but things posted on DU have been taken out of context by them in the past, which is why I take extra care in how I phrase things I post on here. But, you've raised a good question. For the record - no, I would never consider doing that but I do hope that everyone who had a hand in this gets what's coming to them. It's made an impossible situation even worse.

[kentuck]

36. I'm conscious of that also...

that is why I worded it as "tempted"..? I did not say , "Would you spit on returning GIs?"

[VOX]

38. First off, the spitting business is a myth...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-12.htm
Published on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 by the Cleveland Free Times
Myth Making and Spitting Images from Vietnam
by Patrick G. Coy
<snip>
In 1995 sociologist Thomas Beamish and his colleagues analyzed all peace movement-related stories from 1965 - 1971 in the NY Times, LA Times, and SF Chronicle (495 stories). They found no instance of any spitting on returned troops by peace movement members, nor any taunting. Indeed, they found few examples of negative demonstrations involving returning troops of any kind, or even of simple disapproval of returning soldiers. Three years later, sociologist Jerry Lembcke conducted a similarly exhaustive study for his book, The Spitting Image, with like results. He discovered war protesters being spat upon by war supporters, and hostile acts toward Vietnam veterans by conservative, pro-war groups like the VFW, but no taunting or spitting on returned veterans by peace movement members. Returned veterans and in-service GIs were welcomed in the peace movement, and many assumed leadership roles. Yet the myth endures.
<snip>

And to answer your question, hell no, I don't spit on anybody.

On edit: Regrettably, your post in itself runs contrary to the myth, thus enabling the spread of more false information.

[TahitiNut]

63. Bull-FUCKING-shit!

This is god-damned outrageous!

Read this.

[Bonhomme Richard]

27. No and I would hit anyone that would. n/t

[nonconformist]

31. NO! nt

[not systems]

33. hell no!

[Commendatori]

34. Absolutely not.

[Bandit]

35. I would spit on Bush* and Rummy if it didn't get me sent to Gitmo but our

soldiers, No way in hell.

[ShaneGR]

37. Absolutely not

And if someone did that in front of me, I'd punch them in the face.

[libhill]

39. Any one who

would stoop to that, is as slimey and despicable in my opinion as the people who abused the prisoners. Whether or not you agree with what`s going on in Iraq, don`t condemn all of the vets for the actions of a few. Those of us who are against the war need to get out in the streets and protest, really raise some hell. Spitting on people won`t accomplish diddly squat, so shit or get off the pot. This it what went wrong during Vietnam, too many otherwise well meaning people blamed the soldiers for the war, rather than taking it up with the self serving politicians who got the country into that mess. No wonder so many VietNam era vets are so fucked up today, considering how they were treated after they came home. Let`s not make the same mistake again.

[Redleg]

40. Kentuck- is this flame-bait or what?

The Freepers have got to be going wild over this.

[kentuck]

47. F **K the Freepers !

Stop worrying so much about the "freepers"... There is nothing in this post that does not reflect positively on DUers and the left in general.

[Redleg]

59. Are you kidding me? The topic doesn't reflect poorly on us?

Gimme a break. I thought you were a steady person.

[kentuck]

60. How many responses do you see that think it is alright?

If the freepers want to link to the post, let the people read them and quote them? I don't agree with you.

[Redleg]

61. I see your point. Sorry- I'm a bit edgy today.

Peace.

[seabeyond]

41. nnnnnnoooooo

who would i know which one to spit on, and would have to spit on so much more than just the soldier. we as a society are all creating the atmosphere that allows this to happen

[Loonman]

42. No way

No how.

[VOX]

43. Damnit, Vietnam vets were NOT spat upon!!!!!

This is a major-league myth, and it has been debunked, and debunked again!!!!

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0318-12.htm
Published on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 by the Cleveland Free Times
Myth Making and Spitting Images from Vietnam
by Patrick G. Coy
<snip>
In 1995 sociologist Thomas Beamish and his colleagues analyzed all peace movement-related stories from 1965 - 1971 in the NY Times, LA Times, and SF Chronicle (495 stories). They found no instance of any spitting on returned troops by peace movement members, nor any taunting. Indeed, they found few examples of negative demonstrations involving returning troops of any kind, or even of simple disapproval of returning soldiers. Three years later, sociologist Jerry Lembcke conducted a similarly exhaustive study for his book, The Spitting Image, with like results. He discovered war protesters being spat upon by war supporters, and hostile acts toward Vietnam veterans by conservative, pro-war groups like the VFW, but no taunting or spitting on returned veterans by peace movement members. Returned veterans and in-service GIs were welcomed in the peace movement, and many assumed leadership roles. Yet the myth endures.
<snip>

[Generator]

49. No! and the Feminists never burned any bras either/ eom

[TahitiNut]

64. Take your FUCKING "myth" and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Read this.

[MissB]

44. No. (nt)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Do you have any documentation that ANY returning soldier from...

...Vietnam was ever spat upon? If you're going to put something in "historical perspective", try to at least get your facts straight.

[wubbathompson]

54. Yes, my uncle was

In fact, my grandmother has a picture of the asshole who did it.

[TahitiNut]

62. I was. What kind of fucking "documentation" would it take ...

... to make people swallow their own bullshit??? This crap is fucking outrageous! Read this.

[corporatewhore]

46. my spit is too good for those bastards i would before i found out about

the twelve year old girl they abused
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x538662
A twelve year old girl. That is child abuse i have no respect for child abusers

[leesa]

48. Spitting? I've never spit on anyone and probably never will, although

if I had the opportunity to spit on Bush I might.
I do not respect those soldiers who disrespect Iraqis and other non-Americans. I might be tempted to spit on the bigots who call Muslims ragheads.

[democratreformed]

50. No.

Never.

[guitar man]

52. Hell no

And anyone spitting on or otherwise disrespecting a returning troop in my presence would be putting their health at risk. It isn't their fault that this bunch of right-wing miscreants misused them in such a horrific way. The troops are going to have enough to deal with in the coming years without having to deal with that type of behavior from the American public.

As far as the chickenhawk bastards that sent them into this clusterfuck, would I spit on them given the opportunity? No.


I'D PISS ALL OVER THEM!

[nomatrix]

53. May I suggest that Kentuck was pointing

to how this "myth" could not have been true with the peace movement.

The majority of combat veterans in Vietnam were drafted (as well as protests had begun) in the late 60's early 70's. Why would those who protested the sending of kids (who didn't even have the right to vote) to fight and die for a poorly planned invasion and exit then mock them with the action of spitting on them?

It was not the soldiers fault for the orders they were given, especially in life or death conditions. Self rightous indignation always pops up in this topic.

I believe what Kentuck was attempting to do, was to let you know what the feelings were at the time of that war to today & the likelyhood of it "actually" happening. Expect those stories to surface, and process in what you know to be true today.

[KoKo]

57. Nomatrix, I agree, I thought that was Kentuck's point, too...

Context.

[Kimber Scott]

55. I wouldn't lower myself.

n/t

[MrSlayer]

58. No. I'm not spitting on soldiers.

Gimmie a break. Trial for those that did the torturing and the rest I'll welcome home from the quagmire.