It's alright, Ma....I'm only bleeding...

[kentuck]

But we would expect nothing less from "bleeding heart" liberals. Our senses have been shocked by what we have seen in the last two days. Our minds and hearts are obsessed with it. We cannot understand the entire significance of the abuse and/or torture. We only know that it is wrong. We cannot accept any of the rationalizations that we have heard thus far.

What does our nation stand for anymore, if not human rights and respect for our fellow man? These troops had not been out in the field or under the pressure of night ambushes or deprived of basic necessities, as some in previous wars. So, why did they do it? We will suffer the answer until the last drop of blood is squeezed from our liberal hearts..

[Paradise]

1. I can't even look at the photos. :( n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Our country stands for George Washington, 'tuck.

[kentuck]

3. Does the flag follow the dollar or does the dollar follow the flag?

I once had a professor ask that question...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Follow, as in

Rank of importance, or follow, as in

Trail behind?

[kentuck]

9. Follow, as in trail behind...

Meaning of course, that the dollar is more important in Iraq than in Afghanistan, bcause of the oil, and the flag will follow the dollar to Iraq sooner than to Afghanistan...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. In that case, the flag will always follow the dollar.

But there's always an entrepreneurial(read opportunistic) dollar that will follow the flag that's following the dollar.

[skooooo]

4. ....you're right.

We haven't even begun to fathom or understand the significance of these photos and how it will effect public opinion of us for decades.

These recent incidents have really brought home what many people have experienced at the hands of our government for a very long time in one place or another.

[namvet73]

6. Psychological breakdown from war...

Physical injury is not the only casualty of war. Emotional and other mental injuries occur. A failure to recognize and treat people who are in these extraordinary situations can result in horrible behavior.

I'm not a psychologist, but I have served during the Vietnam war and I know that people who were normal going in can become abnormal.

More simple terms have been used, such as battle fatigue. I am surprised I have heard very little about this. It seems easy to just blame the soldiers. The government must take some responsibility for not relieving people who have served too long, etc. Punishment is a political answer, but it ultimately will not work.

To understand more, do some research. One can start with:

The Killology Research Group

http://www.killology.com/index.htm

Support our troops. Treat the psychologically wounded as well as the physically wounded and if they do not recover, do not send them back for more.

[kentuck]

7. Good point, namvet73

and their training was not sufficient to even begin preparing them for what they encountered. The training is different for the NG than it is for the Marines or the 101st...it's a fact. Who knows how they might react under such circumstances. Nonetheless, where was the leadership?

[namvet73]

8. A good movie to watch...

is "Full Metal Jacket" Stanley Kubrick

I think 'W' and some others in the administration should watch it.
The first half of the movie is a very realistic depiction of boot camp. One recruit, who was not mentally built for it went nuts (I won't give the details).

Once in Vietnam, it shows that many of these guys simply don't give a s%*t anymore. They kill anybody who looks like the enemy. They do their own profiling. Some, who were normal, lose complete regard for the human lives of any Vietnamese. They become disposable. In fact, the troops begin to feel disposable.

John Kerry understands it for sure.

Bush may be apologizing, but who is he apologizing on behalf of? He is apologizing for "mis-behaving" troops when it really should be an apology for his own and his administration's mistakes (which he seems to have a hard time remembering.)

He and Rummy were told that they would need more troops.

Unfortunately the administration were the ones that were the most shocked and awed by military weapons technology. They believed they had the "silver bullet." They were wrong.

[MrSlayer]

11. A good Vietnam book recommendation as well.

"Mad Minutes and Vietnam Months" by Michael Clodfelter. It's a first person account of his tours in the bush. He went there looking for battlefield glory only to find it to be hollow and ended up a protester when he got home. It's a really good read and details a lot of the atrocities committed as the war went on.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786003375/002-7602748-3960034?v=glance