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BBV: EAC Panel- Paper advocates outgunned 3 to 1

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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 09:53 AM
Original message
BBV: EAC Panel- Paper advocates outgunned 3 to 1
Received additional information from Susan Marie Weber. Then I called the EAC (202-566-3100) and talked to Brian Whitener. He says the commission picked the panel to give different perspectives- ....right.......

The commission will take papers and asks that they be submitted by 4pm, May 5. I would suggest email with a hard copy follow up to the DC address given below. Address the hard copy with ATT: Testimony Enclosed. Email:

I think the commission needs to receive a LOT of input, don't you?

Each panel member will be given 7 minutes to sumarize.

Anyone who can attend to show support for voter verified paper ballots is encouraged to do so. However, it appears that only the 'invited' panel members will be allowed to address the commission.

Information follows including a summary of the panel members position by another person. (Not me or Weber, I'll make my comments in parentheses)- RE

U.S. Election Assistance Commission
1225 New York Ave. NW - Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005

Sunshine Act Meeting

Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 9 a.m.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Headquarters,
1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Room 3000, Rachel L. Carson Great Hall
Ariel Rios North Building, Washington, DC
(Metro Riders: Take the Orange or Blue Line to Federal Triangle Metro Stop).

This meeting will be open to the public.

Early Arrival: Those attending are advised to arrive early for registration and security check.

To conduct a public hearing on the present status of computerized electronic voting systems.

The Following Witness Panels Will Be Presented:
Technology Panel, Vendor Panel, Election Administrator Panel, Research Panel and Advocacy Organization Panel.

Bryan Whitener, Telephone: (202) 566-3100.

DeForest B. Soaries, Jr.,
Chairman, U.S. Election Assistance


U.S. Election Assistance Commission
Public Hearing Agenda

(Unless otherwise indicated, the listed witnesses have been confirmed)

Public Hearing on the use Security and Reliability of Electronic Voting System

9:00 - 9:15 Opening remarks by Commission members

9:15 - 9:35 Overview of Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) Voting
Kim Brace, President, Election Data Services, Inc.

9: 40 - 10:40 Technology Panel
Dr. Avi Rubin, Johns Hopkins University, Information Security Institute
Stephen Berger, IEEE
Dr. Ted Selker, MIT
Dr. Brit Williams, Kennesaw University, Georgia

(I'm not sure about Berger, Selker and Williams defintely against voter verified paper ballots. Selker and Shamos have been the non-paper computer scientists- and about the only ones- that the industry and LWV use for quotes. Selker and Shamos are not security experts)

10:45 - 11:45 Vendor Panel
Hart Intercivic
Election Systems and Software

(Does it get any more self evident? The ONLY voter verified paper ballot proponent on here is Avante- outgunned 4 to 1. Balanced perspective? Where are Accupoll and TruVote?)

11:45 - 12:30 Break for Lunch

12:45 - 2:00 Election Administrator Panel
Kevin Shelly, Secretary of State of California (invited)
Kathy Rogers, State Election Director, Georgia
Conny McCormack, Los Angles County, CA, County Clerk and Registrar
Denise Lamb, Director of Elections, New Mexico

(Shelly is the only one one here and it looks like his direct participation may not be confirmed. The rest speak for themselves)

2:00 - 2:30 Research / Human Interaction Factors Panel
Dr. Sharon Laskowski, National Institute of Standards and Technology Study
Alice Miller, Executive Director of D.C. Board of Elections (invited)
Dana DeBeauvoir, County Clerk, Austin Texas

(I can't speak to this panel. Maybe others have more information)

2:35 - 4:10 Advocacy Organization Panel
Wade Henderson, President, Leadership Conference on Civil Rights (invited)
Jim Dickson, Vice President for Governmental Affairs American Association of People with Disabilities
Kay Maxwell, President League of Women Voters of the U.S.
Angela Arboleda, National Council of La Raza
Melanie Campbell, Voices of the Electorate (invited)
Chellie Pingree, President, Common Cause

(Dickson and Maxwell are against paper. I'm not sure about Henderson or where Common Cause is currently falling on the issue. But if this is supposed to be an advocacy panel, where is Bev? People from TrueMajority? People from TrueVote Maryland? Rush Holt? Bob Graham? Dennis Kucinich?)

4:10 - 4:25 Closing remarks

(Another view of the panels)

Talk about stacking the deck. With the possible exception of the Research panel, I belive the pro-VVPT position is outnumbered by a factor of at least 3 to 1 on every panel in this hearing.
Here's my head count for each of the panels:

Technology panel:
Anti-VVPT: 3
Pro-VVPT: 1

Vendor panel:
Anti-VVPT: 4
Pro-VVPT: 1

Elections official panel:
Anti-VVPT: 3
Pro-VVPT: 1

Research/Human Factors panel: I don't where these folks stand
Anti-VVPT: ?
Pro-VVPT: ?
Unknown Position: 3

Advocacy Organization panel:
Anti-VVPT: 3
Pro-VVPT: 1
` Unknown Position: 2
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. If anyone on the east coast can make this meeting, PLEASE.....
.....PACK THE ROOM! Make your voices heard and let them know we won't back down! If you can't make the meeting by all means send them your comments. The more of us that do the better our chances of having an impact on their ultimate decisions. :)

(Good morning Mike! :hi: This is the system as it is in action. If we don't use it, we'll lose it. Any problem with us doing that? )

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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. People, get out of Talk mode and into DO Mode
We have a lot of stuff going down, but nothing will change if we don't clean up our voting system.

It should RAIN paper at the EAC offices.

Take the EAC server to the limit with your responses and opinions.

Then CC those to your federal representatives and senators, and a few to the media.

By the way, the issue has never really been about 'voter fraud.'
A voter cannot effect an election on a large scale, only someone with inside access can do that. From election officials to party members to whoever has access to the votes. The real threat is from inside. Even when dead people vote, that's usually a rig by someone on the inside.

Don't look where you're pointed to- look the opposite way.

Voter fraud is reprehensible- but it cannot affect an election the way insider fraud can. Witness the access by the Sequoia worker from Denver to the Riverside, California counting system. That wasn't potential voter fraud- that's inside access, that was caught by a VOTER volunteer.

Common people, pedal to the metal on this one.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Kicking
The root of the problem lies with thousands of votes being subject to alteration by a single keystroke. Never before in the history of voting have so many votes been able to be changed by so little effort.

We all work with computers. How many of us completely understand the workings of our own computer? 1 out of a 1,000, if that. Well, what we are faced with is 1 out of 1,000,000 being able to determine what the computer does as we vote. Do ya think such a small minority could become bought and paid for? The answer is, of course, yes. A small group of people will decide how votes are counted, IF, and only if we allow it too happen.

Email those deciding our fate and tell them: Do Not Allow Computers To Be Used To Count The Vote! Paper is tried and true. Everyone understands paper! Only an Elite core of individuals control the computers.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I like your distinction between voter fraud and "insider fraud."
I've been trying to use the more general term "election fraud."

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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Agreed! Very good 'talking point'.....
.....worthy of a :toast: and a :kick: ! :evilgrin:
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Email sent!
Wish I could be there...
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Done!
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks Guys!
We have got to make it obvious that stacking the panel will only get them called on it.

Let the media know there is darn little "diversity of perspective" here.

And Kay Maxwell does NOT speak for the rank and file of the LWV. That decision came from the top down and that is not how LWV works. Maxwell has no business on that panel representing LWV. Much of the LWV is up in arms over this.

Where is Barbara Simons?

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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. All the information you need here
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. Kick
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-04-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Attend if you can, Write if you can't
But doing nothing will gain nothing.

Voting is THE critical issue.

Take back control of that and take back control.
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